Wuhan Coronavirus

[Trapper John]

Thank you, Box! Finest Kind :lifter

[Badger52]

...(unless of course you are trying to manipulate your own statistics to help prove some bizarre predetermined outcome)...Here endeth the lesson.

As mentioned before (n=1) my local health department was instructed by the state to change a case fatality statistic to conform with their method. The motive, based on rhetoric from the Gov and his acolytes has become clear, because it is at the state level that wailing tears & flailing of arms is engaged to gather $$$ from The State. Can't be healthy & expect to get the bak-sheesh Sahib to take care of lost revenue because no university football and dorm revenue.*

Plus, as indicated by Box, they are either felony-stupid, felony-complicit, or both in terms of their use of "mortality rate."

* As many students are tumbling to (based on Numbah One 4.0 grand-daughter debrief), after being told to "go home & educate yourself but you're not getting a refund", the entire idea of the hucksters in the Ivory Towers is going to be relooked by many next semester, given some of the quality online options available for students that have some self-motivation.

[rsdengler]

Fuck these people.
Fuck them right in their stupid asses.

Exactly.......They are the "Frankenstein's" of the "so-called" health experts....My God, they have gone mad......:D

[1stindoor]

I have two favorite sayings about statistics:
1. "63% of all statistics are made up on the spot." (Statistics professor in my college about 30+ years ago). He would change the number occasionally to see if we were paying attention.
2. "Half the doctors practicing medicine graduated in the lower 50% of their class in med school."

[tom kelly]

Lies, Dammed Lies, and STATISTICS... You were spot-on Mark.... Sports commentators use "stats" to excuse their lack of knowledge of the event they are broadcasting to fill-in on-air time....

[PedOncoDoc]

2. "Half the doctors practicing medicine graduated in the lower 50% of their class in med school."

This would be true if there was a higher level of attrition in the docs who performed better in med school. :D

[cbtengr]

Personally I am glad to see things opening up and I am especially glad to see all those people asshole to elbow flocking enmasse to their favorite watering holes. This should tell us in two weeks if all these talking heads have just been blowing smoke up our collective you know what's or that we should brace ourselves for the second wave. I would also like to see the stats regarding all the kiddies that showed up for Spring Break when all this hit the fan, was it reported that they all died and I just missed it?

[Swoop]

I have two favorite sayings about statistics:
1. "63% of all statistics are made up on the spot." (Statistics professor in my college about 30+ years ago). He would change the number occasionally to see if we were paying attention.
2. "Half the doctors practicing medicine graduated in the lower 50% of their class in med school."

3. “Liars figure and figures lie”!

[1stindoor]

3. “Liars figure and figures lie”!

That's a good one. I also heard this once, "Statistics don't mean a thing until you are one."

[Badger52]

That's a good one. I also heard this once, "Statistics don't mean a thing until you are one.":lifter
I actually told that once to a former BigMachineDem governor we had while he visited my wife's county office. (I waited till he was leaving in the parking lot so as not to embarass HH6.) He had objected to passage of a shall-issue carry law based on "statistically Wisconsin is one of the safest states in the nation." I advised him & his handlers of your quote and that, if it was happening to you, it's a very binary thing. Can't remember where I heard it either, but it came in handy.

[Pete]

No Coronavirus Spike in States That Lifted Lockdowns Early, ABC Reports

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/tyler-o-neil/2020/05/28/no-coronavirus-spike-in-states-that-lifted-lockdowns-early-abc-reports-n443293

"...Yet according to ABC News reporter Ariel Mitropoulos, states that lifted the lockdowns early did not experience a surge in coronavirus hospitalizations, deaths, or the percentage of people testing positive.

“JUST IN: [ABC News] looked at 21 states that eased restrictions May 4 or earlier & found no major increase in hospitalizations, deaths or % of people testing positive in any of them. [SC, MT, GA, MS, SD, AR, CO, ID, IA, ND, OK, TN, TX, UT, WY, KS, FL, IN, MO, NE, OH] via [Ariel Mitropoulos],” ABC News lead medical reporter Eric Strauss tweeted...."

So ABC does a study, a reporter tweets about it and ABC buries the study. It should be good news - but we have to keep the panic going.

[Swoop]

So ABC does a study, a reporter tweets about it and ABC buries the study. It should be good news - but we have to keep the panic going.


“No good news is good news for these main stream idiots!”

Freaking bunch of morons.

[abc_123]

Wasn't me!

[Airbornelawyer]

Whenever anyone has tried to do a cost-benefit analysis of the Covid-19 lockdowns and social distancing, the usual suspects denounce him for valuing jobs over lives, for killing grandma. "If even one life is saved," the destruction of the economy is justified, or so it goes.

It is a specious ad hominem disguising as an argument, but it is par for the course for the Left. Recall that criticism of the Clean Air Act or Clean Water Act means you want to poison children, opposition to Obamacare means you want to throw grandma off a cliff, skepticism about global warming and the Left's proposed "solutions" like the Green New Deal means you want to kill the planet, etc.

But I am concerned not just about the social and economic costs, but the cost in lives. As has been noted by a number of observers even very early in this crisis, and has become more apparent as time goes by, the costs are not just jobs vs. lives, but lives vs. lives. Below is a list of observations on this topic. I would appreciate if any of you, especially those with far superior knowledge of biology or medicine than I, could correct any errors or make any additions.

1. The coronavirus response itself. The lockdowns were initially justified under the "flattening of the curve" argument, which meant slowing (not stopping) the spread of the virus to keep hospitals from being overwhelmed. As we have seen, either the "flattening of the curve" was way more successful than anyone expected, or the projections underlying the argument were wrong, but not only were hospitals not close to being threatened, many were significantly under capacity, and many temporary ones were never even used.

However, one consequence of the curve-flattening response apparently not only did not improve the situation, but rather made it worse. This was the decision by several states, notably New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Minnesota, to force nursing homes to take recovering but still contagious patients. It was a callous decision, justified as freeing up hospital resources (or more sinisterly, as not wasting resources on old people who were likely to die anyway, which also seems to have occurred in Italy, Spain and elsewhere), and it has cost untold thousands of lives. Untold, because we simply do not know exactly how many of those infected in nursing homes were infected by returned patients, and also because several states including New York seem to be deliberately fudging their statistics. The preliminary numbers we do have, though, are staggering: in Connecticut, at least 70% of Covid-19 deaths are in long-term care facilities, in Massachusetts at least 62%, in Rhode Island 76%, in Pennsylvania 68%. In New Jersey, it is officially "only" 52%, but reportedly the numbers are worse. New York claims only 25% of its Covid-19 deaths are in LTCs, but other sources claim it is closer to half, possibly 10,000 in New York City alone.

This is not new "news". The Spanish Army was reporting finding abandoned nursing homes full of dead bodies in March. Also in March, it was widely reported that Italian doctors were triaging elderly patients as not worth the effort to save. Trucks full of decomposing bodies outside nursing homes in Brooklyn were reported in April. But as more attention to the nursing home issue has been paid of late, politicians and bureaucrats appear to have circled their wagons.

We've known since February with the case of Diamond Princess that this particular coronavirus is far more lethal to the elderly, so many of these deaths were likely unavoidable. But it is clear, especially when compared to the nursing home response in several other states, that many of these deaths were avoidable, and were caused by the nature of the response.

2. Suicide. There is both anecdotal and statistical evidence that the lockdowns have led to increased suicides. There is a widely reported study on the correlation between an increase in the unemployment rate and an increase in suicides, but you do not need scientific studies to understand that an increase in despair and a loss of hope will lead to more suicides.

Furthermore, beyond actual suicides, as Tony Manero noted in Saturday Night Fever, "there's ways of killing yourself without killing yourself." People who have lost hope, lost their livelihoods due to lockdowns, been declared "non-essential", found themselves "socially distanced" from support networks or even basic human contact, will often resort to passive or active higher-risk behavior which could lead to death. Passive behaviors include not bothering with basic hygiene, drinking too much, and taking drugs, leading to greater risk of accidents or infections. I am not as sure about correlating lockdown-related anxiety and depression with active high-risk behaviors, but I have noted that the Cannonball Run record has been broken multiple times and police have reported a large increase in over-100mph speeding tickets. Some drivers may just be taking advantage of a situation, but some may just not care about the consequences. And how many of these rioters don't really care about BLM, but are just enjoying an excuse to get outdoors and act up?

3. Cancer and other diseases and conditions. Either because of fear of contracting Covid-19 if they go to a hospital, or because they think they are being socially conscious and doing their part, many people have cancelled or put off medical treatments, deeming them non-essential or whatever. Biopsies are not getting done, people are cancelling chemotherapy appointments, etc. The potential death toll here could be high, and again many deaths would be avoidable but for the lockdown/social distancing.

4. Stress- and anxiety related deaths. Among the potentially fatal conditions which I understand can be made worse by stress and anxiety are "heart disease, cancer, lung ailments, accidents, cirrhosis of the liver and suicide" (source: American Psychological Association). So besides suicides and cancer deaths, we can likely expect more deaths from other conditions as the stress of lockdowns, loss of jobs and businesses, and destruction of people's livelihoods takes its toll.

5. Pools and parks. This may seem like a minor one, and I genuinely have no idea what the scope of the risks are, but in walking around my neighborhood I have noticed a lot of closed-down pools, water-parks, and ponds and lakes in public parks have become overgrown and fetid due to lack of ongoing maintenance. That seems like a breeding ground for mosquitoes, ticks and other disease-carriers.

6. Masks. The fetishization of mask-wearing is bewildering to me. Even many of those that know better seem to be pushing mask-wearing as a symbolic act. My issue is not just that the typical masks being worn are not effective against viruses, but that they are counterproductive and may cause more harm than good. As even Dr. Anthony Fauci has warned, people are constantly fidgeting with their masks, spreading germs from hands to face that might not otherwise be spread. Furthermore, the vast majority of masks I see are not disposable (though I have seen a marked increase in disposable masks littering the highways and walkways), and are likely being used and reused without adequate cleaning, so they are yet another potential disease vector. They are like the reusable shopping bags that the trendy use to avoid paper or plastic, but which don't get washed and become germ-ridden, except now you are sticking them on your face.

Also, medical professionals please correct me if I am wrong, but I understood one of several reasons the cold and flu season correlates with winter, even though viruses don't thrive in extreme weather, is that people are using things like gloves, scarves, winter coats, quilts and shawls that do not get routinely washed, and these articles become disease-vectors in and of themselves. Your cool cloth mask seems like another one of these.

7. Herd immunity. Again, this is an area of science where I am woefully ignorant. I am not even sure I had ever heard the term "herd immunity", like "flattening the curve" or "case fatality rate", before a few months ago when we all became experts on epidemiology with our degrees from Wikipedia University. But the concept I am familiar with. Having grown up poor in sometimes not the most hygienic conditions, I have noticed for years that I would be less susceptible to various infections than some middle- and upper-middle class contemporaries. Not immune, just less susceptible. I assumed that this was because some low-level exposure to pathogens helped build up your immune responses, and unless you genuinely have a compromised immune system, trying to live in a virtual plastic bubble is not only impossible but counterproductive, and will weaken your immune responses.

I have seen a lot of discussion in news articles and discussion threads about herd immunity, but it is hard to separate the wheat from the chaff and the good information from the bad. So my question is, since the politicians and bureaucrats have moved well beyond "flattening the curve" to any of a number of excuses to maintain the lockdowns and various restrictions on human interaction (the social distancing and masks even after lifting lockdowns for example) for an indeterminate amount of time, at what point, if at all, is it an issue that people are weakening their immune systems? And what potential costs are there to this?

8. Domestic violence. I have not seen any reliable data, but it seems highly likely that the lockdowns may have led to some such incidents, potentially fatal ones. There have been joking memes about spouses killing each other after being cooped up for an extended period, but behind those jokes there may be some tragic realities.

[Airbornelawyer]

9. Other killers. Again, these are a few examples of the human cost that have occurred to me or which I have seen finally being discussed more widely. Are there others that I may have missed?

Thanks in advance for tolerating my rather long-winded discussion of these issues. This may be just my way of staving off cabin fever, but I do hope I've addressed some valid concerns.

[Penn]

ABN Lawyer, thank you for taking the time to process this period and comment on your observation. That said, your post requires several readings just to align the ducks, what a perfect analysis of our current malable situation.

[Old Dog New Trick]

AirBorneLawyer - your analysis seems to be pretty spot on. The media will not cover the effects of the lockdown or job losses regarding suicides and it would appear by all accounts that what we are seeing in the news re: George Floyd’s death at the hands of MSPPD is that people have too much time on their hands and not much to live for.

If anyone ever said, “may you live in interesting times”, this is it. The will of the people shall be postponed until the “OrangeManBad” is removed from office and the “DC Swamp” can return to (corrupt) life as usual. Only if Joe Biden wins will the wrongs be righted and the plutocracy return to what was once counted on for individual gain at the expense of the AMErican peoples.

I’ve suspected this is more politically motivated (by the Chinese the Democrats and the liberal media) than the second coming of Christ but what do I know? I’m just a simple servant with at least a dangerous level of inside knowledge.

Of course JMHO.

[Box]

Say what you want about riots, impeachment, global warning, pandemics, receding hairlines and premature ejaculation...
Any one of those would have buried a "Main stream" republican by now.

Not only would any of these hardships BURIED the republicans we have become accustomed to - they would have apologized for being the cause of whatever problem was blamed on them in the media.

Democrats can incite riots, tell people they ain't black, deny medical science while lambasting anyone that would even question climate science, rail on about bipartisan efforts to push partisan agendas, the glorified use of drugs as a recreational right of passage. and the general mismanagement of the "Democratic Peoples Republic of Pandemia"...
...and they WILL get a free pass in the media.


Clearly the response to the Chinese Wuhan Virus from China was partisan hype, or the democrats would be scrambling to prevent protests like they did when we couldn't breath too close to one another...
...because your first amendment right were LITERALLY described as non-essential when we were worried about people catching the flu.

Set peoples automobiles and private property on fire because a dirty cop abused his authority while arresting a criminal (yes, the guy was a criminal and criminals have rights too) and it's OK to protest but not when innocent people are being forced into their homes - driving up suicide rates, domestic violence rates, and mental behavioral health problems. Innocent protests that didnt result is widespread violence and destruction.

Now we are all gonna get Chinese Wuhan Flu from China - again - because of racism.

[Trapper John]

Airbornelawyer- Penn captured my thoughts re your post, Finest Kind! But I have some additional thoughts on this whole CF. So please forgive me, I just can't help myself:

1. China intentionally sent SARSCoV-2 infected people throughout the civilized world while restricting internal travel to contain the infection inside China. IIRC that is not only an act of war, the means is biological warfare that is specifically outlawed by international law?

2. IHME put forth a model for propagation and effect of disease in the U.S. that projected more than 1.2 million deaths nationwide, overwhelming the healthcare systems in hot spots like NY.

3. The advisors to POTUS bought into the falacious IHME model hook, line, and sinker falling into the group think trap and taking a politically safe position rather than applying independent thinking.

4. The effect of #3 was to validate a false premise to be exploited.

5. The Neo-Fascists, not letting a good crisis go to waste, stand upon the now valid false premise and have put forth legislation disguised as economic recovery. Of course the HoR cannot convene due to the need to prevent virus transmission. So what do they do? Change the rules in the House of Representatives to allow proxy voting of course. How responsible and politically correct! This is the most dangerous piece of legislation of my life-time.

6. And of course the media is providing the propaganda outlet to ensure a compliant public.

[Old Dog New Trick]

TJ, you missed 3(a) use an apocalyptic end of times 8th grader (yes, a 14 y/o) computer algorithm for “social distancing” and total lockdown guaranteed to destroy the economy and lead to anarchy and complete breakdown of law and order.

Those same ‘scientists’ laughed and told her it was unfathomable and would result in total failure of society as we know (knew) it.

I guess they got that one right...except they said we should use that model to prevent the spread of a disease they knew absolutely nothing about at the time.

Good F-ing job everyone, pat yourselves on the back.




(Everyone is not you TJ)

[Trapper John]

ODNT, Box, It just occurred to me that it's no coincidence that f'n old medics think alike. I guess I'll be seein' yous guys in the Gulag and re-education camp? Should be like our 300 F1 days. :p

[PSM]

1. China intentionally sent SARSCoV-2 infected people throughout the civilized world while restricting internal travel to contain the infection inside China. IIRC that is not only an act of war, the means is biological warfare that is specifically outlawed by international law?

I agree with everything except that it was intentional, at least at first. Why start a 'pandemic' across the street from your virology lab? Plus, it's not deadly enough to be a valid weapon on it's own. I think that they also were taking advantage of a crisis in concert with the Democrats (who seem to have a lot of connections to the CCP), Deep State (but I repeat myself), and the propaganda press (damn, I did it again). It was probably a combination of CYA and DYE (destroy your enemy).

[Trapper John]

(Everyone is not you TJ)

Never would have dreamed it ODNT :p

[Trapper John]

I agree with everything except that it was intentional, at least at first.

You are correct. The release from the lab was accidental. The intention was to move infected individuals into the EU and US. I don't believe the lethality of the infecting agent is a factor when determining whether the act was an act of war or not. For instance, a neutron bomb or an emp device are very disruptive to infrastructures but are not lethal devices. Deployment of such a device would clearly be an act of war. The infrastructure disruption of Covid-19 is comparable.

[Box]

I guess I'll be seein' yous guys in the Gulag and re-education camp... :p

Sorry brother - I'll not be attending the reeducation events.

I'm already well versed in correct thinking.

This is all the fault of our greedy corporate task masters. They have been in bed with our corrupt government overlords for so long that they are blinded by the glitter of their ill-gotten gold.

These wealthy elitists have robbed the common man (and woman) of everything - they have used their predatory lending practices to force us into debt. The capitalist in charge own all of the material goods - the only possession we have left is our labor.

We are oppressed by an arbitrary wage system that exploits the sweat of our brow in exchange for yachts and big houses and fake rowing trophies as currency for the wealthy and their ivory tower college scandals while rest of us are forced to become indentured servants to pay for our pathetic little community college classes.

Nuts to all of these corporate raiders and their scaremongering as they claim that the Green New Deal is nothing more than a war on cattle - and well it should be - cows are people too!!! We should get our protein from synthetic means - we dont need to murder innocent cows - even plants should be left alone so that mother nature can heal herself...............


BLAH BLAH BLAH - YADA YADA YADA


Ya' see bro - you jokers will be suffering inside the confines of some boring reeducation center while I am outside pretending to listen to the Biden-Clinton Freedom Hour on government run TV and sipping on my government issued bottle of Victory-Gin
You guys will be eating gluten free bread and mineral water while I am outside eating black market wagu-beef and telling people how good my "Synthetic Porterhouse" tastes.



...reeducation camp.
I dont think so.

Learn the lingo folks before its too late !!!

[PSM]

You are correct. The release from the lab was accidental. The intention was to move infected individuals into the EU and US. I don't believe the lethality of the infecting agent is a factor when determining whether the act was an act of war or not. For instance, a neutron bomb or an emp device are very disruptive to infrastructures but are not lethal devices. Deployment of such a device would clearly be an act of war. The infrastructure disruption of Covid-19 is comparable.

I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't an act of war, just that it provided another crisis to be exploited and many of our elected leaders are allied with our enemy.

[cat in the hat]

Sorry brother - I'll not be attending the reeducation events.

I'm already well versed in correct thinking.

This is all the fault of our greedy corporate task masters. They have been in bed with our corrupt government overlords for so long that they are blinded by the glitter of their ill-gotten gold.

These wealthy elitists have robbed the common man (and woman) of everything - they have used their predatory lending practices to force us into debt. The capitalist in charge own all of the material goods - the only possession we have left is our labor.

We are oppressed by an arbitrary wage system that exploits the sweat of our brow in exchange for yachts and big houses and fake rowing trophies as currency for the wealthy and their ivory tower college scandals while rest of us are forced to become indentured servants to pay for our pathetic little community college classes.

Nuts to all of these corporate raiders and their scaremongering as they claim that the Green New Deal is nothing more than a war on cattle - and well it should be - cows are people too!!! We should get our protein from synthetic means - we dont need to murder innocent cows - even plants should be left alone so that mother nature can heal herself...............


BLAH BLAH BLAH - YADA YADA YADA


Ya' see bro - you jokers will be suffering inside the confines of some boring reeducation center while I am outside pretending to listen to the Biden-Clinton Freedom Hour on government run TV and sipping on my government issued bottle of Victory-Gin
You guys will be eating gluten free bread and mineral water while I am outside eating black market wagu-beef and telling people how good my "Synthetic Porterhouse" tastes.



...reeducation camp.
I dont think so.

Learn the lingo folks before its too late !!!

If you act enthusiastic enough they won't even notice if you use tonic and lime.

[Old Dog New Trick]

If you act enthusiastic enough they won't even notice if you use tonic and lime.

Oh doG, forbid you to use HCQ in its most genetic form (quinine) with lime. Surely that will get you isolation and pulled from gen-pop.

[Box]

You guys have so much to learn - just because the bottle says Victoroy-Gin on the label - that doesnt mean thats whats in the bottle.

Do you jokers civil disobedience much ???

Even the two minutes of hate can be spent yelling out the ingredients from a carton of Cap'n Crunch - little victories.

[cat in the hat]

I dont "civil" anything so yield to superior knowledge and experience.

Victory Rum it is.

(If Orwell had been American it would been Victory Bourbon.)

[Trapper John]

I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't an act of war, just that it provided another crisis to be exploited and many of our elected leaders are allied with our enemy.

What happened to the lifter icon? Finest Kind post there Pat!

[PSM]

...reeducation camp.
I dont think so.



Hell, I dropped out of the education camp my parents sent me to. No way I'm go to a re-education camp. Nope. Not me. I'm un-reedumacationable.

[Last hard class]

The HCQ study suggesting negative effects for treatment has been retracted.


https://www.thelancet.com/lancet/article/s0140673620313246




LHC

[Box]

So you're saying that a medical research paper done by political activists is scientifically unfounded?

Political SCIENCE does NOT makes you a fucking scientist.
Its probably why people like aLg0re thinks they are an authority on climate

remarkable

[JJ_BPK]

The HCQ study suggesting negative effects for treatment has been retracted.




I wish they were a little more verbose on what they retracted.

But the original Lancet report seems clear enough :lifter

https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140-6736(20)31180-6.pdf

[Box]

Lets all be honest about this though - an OpEd in the New York times was not going to give these hacks the same legitimacy as buying their way into a peer reviewed journal.

Not when the message is no more scientific than "Orangemanbad"

[Airbornelawyer]

My first attempt at creating a Covid-19 meme.

I also thought about one replacing the Virginia state motto of "Sic Semper Tyrannis" with "Führer befiehl, Wir folgen!", but the reference is probably too obscure and most people wouldn't understand the German expression anyway (not that they seem to understand the Latin one).

[Golf1echo]

Edited Post for relevance.
Hard to be light hearted after running across an article on one of joe biddens trips to china. It’s a long video: https://thenationalpulse.com/news/biden-video-ccp-intrusion-us-government/

[tonyz]

Edited Post for relevance.
Hard to be light hearted after running across an article on one of joe biddens trips to china. It’s a long video: https://thenationalpulse.com/news/biden-video-ccp-intrusion-us-government/

Good find. Very brief excerpt from your posted article below.

It is unsettling to reflect on the CCP participation in Korea and Vietnam and read Bill Ayers and other 60’s radicals Prairie Fire manifesto (with today’s ANTIFA handbook in mind).

The stated hatred for America concomitant with the stated reverence for communists by some in this country (with their calls for revolution) is more than unsettling.

“The comments – unearthed from a 2011 Sichuan University speech – demonstrate either a fundamental misunderstanding of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), or outright collusion with it.”

The former veep (BIDEN) stated at the time:

“In order to cement this robust partnership, we have to go beyond close ties between Washington and Beijing, which we’re working on every day, go beyond it to include all levels of government, go beyond it to include classrooms and laboratories, athletic fields and boardrooms.”

[Trapper John]

So you're saying that a medical research paper done by political activists is scientifically unfounded?

Political SCIENCE does NOT makes you a fucking scientist.
Its probably why people like aLg0re thinks they are an authority on climate

remarkable

:lifter Finest Kind as usual!

[tom kelly]

Sir Richard Dearlove (Former head of MI-6) from 1999 until 2004, Britain's equivalent of the CIA cited a report written by Prof. Angus Dalgleish of St, George's Hospital, University of London and Norwegian virologist Biger Sorensen which presents evidence suggesting the Virus was manufactured in a lab. The paper examines Covid-19's genetic sequence, and concludes that key elements were "inserted" and are unlikely to have evolved naturally. The Spike protein structure of SARS-CoV-2 enables the virus to bind specifically to human cells. Vaccine researcher Nikolai Petrovsky Flanders University stated 'The virus is optimized for penetration into human cells rather than animal cells. WHO and WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE. more important is WHY do you believe or TRUST anyone....

[Gypsy]

My first attempt at creating a Covid-19 meme.



Well done.

[Airbornelawyer]

From the Washington Examiner: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/family-member-abuse-spikes-amid-coronavirus-lockdown

The article is short on details, for the most part, but does add more evidence regarding the human cost of the lockdowns.

Since stay-at-home orders were put into effect in late March, the National Centers for Missing and Exploited Children has seen an “explosion” in the number of abuse reports to its cyber tip line, the agency’s chief operating office, Michelle DeLaune, told members.

“We have more than doubled the number of cases that have been received,” said DeLaune. “In April, our cyber tip line reports were 300% higher than they were in April of last year.”

Camille Coops, vice president of public policy at the Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network, said shelter-in-place orders prompted an uptick in the frequency and severity of abuse within the home, based on reports the organization received.

There are also several recent news reports on a 40% to 50% drop-off in emergency room visits nationwide. This has immediate costs as in many cases we simply do not know what happened to many of these people who did not seek care, and longer term costs as many hospitals are having financial troubles and are being forced to lay off staff and cut back services. This has disparate impact on the poor, since many lack adequate health insurance and the ER has often seemed their only option. I have been in that boat myself. Also, since the poverty rate among blacks is significantly higher than among the population in general, blacks are disproportionately impacted. But black lives apparently only matter in certain cases.

[JJ_BPK]

If this belongs in the Comedy Zone, pls move.



The Race for a Coronavirus Vaccine Runs on Horseshoe Crab Blood

Pharmaceutical companies use the creature’s blue blood to test for contaminants

Horseshoe crabs are bled to harvest a key ingredient in tests used to ensure injected medicines such as vaccines are free of contaminants.

By Alex Fox, smithsonianmag.com, June 8, 2020 10:55AM


Humans owe a debt to the strange-looking, ancient horseshoe crab. Its blue blood is used in medicine to ensure that anything that gets injected or implanted into the human body is free of potentially life-threatening bacterial contamination. A special compound in the crab’s blood quickly clots in the presence of endotoxins, microbial byproducts that can be harmful, supplying a perfect natural test for purity. In the race to find a COVID-19 vaccine, horseshoe crab blood is very important.

But an estimated 50,000 crabs die during the annual blood harvest, and these ancient arthropods are also being threatened by pollution, overfishing and habitat loss due to sea level rise, reported Sarah Zhang in the Atlantic in 2018. Moreover, humans aren’t the only ones depending on the crabs (which are actually more closely related to spiders than true crabs). Migratory birds such as the threatened red knot are sustained by the blue-gray bunches of eggs the shelled creatures deposit by the thousands on beaches along the east coast of the United States.

For these reasons, animal rights groups, conservationists and a handful of companies have been pushing for the development and approval of synthetic alternatives to the milky-blue crab blood, reports James Gorman for the New York Times.

Now, an influential United States group has abandoned plans to list a synthetic alternative, called recombinant Factor C (rFC), alongside the tried and true blue fluid, reports John Miller for Reuters. The move by medical standards group U.S. Pharmacopeia (USP) would have given rFC equal standing with crab blood, which has long been the industry standard for testing, per Reuters.

The gist of the USP’s rationale is that rFC requires more testing, and that the current crab-derived test has a 30-year track record of safe and effective use, reports the Times. Many expected the alternative test to be approved for widespread use as it was in Europe by the European Pharmacopeia, per the Times.

For drug makers in the U.S., using the synthetic alternative will require a kind of application designed to demonstrate that the non-standard test is up to snuff—a hurdle that makes companies less likely to abandon the animal-based test, reports Caroline Delbert for Popular Mechanics.

In 2018, the blood harvest drained a third of the vital fluids from nearly 500,000 crabs in the U.S., according to the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission. After scores of steel needles suck their blood, each helmet-shaped crawler gets released back to where it was caught—but thousands of them die in the process. Exactly how many are lost is a matter of debate, but Miller, in another recent story for Reuters, reports that conservation groups estimate switching to rFC could save 100,000 crabs each year.

For their part, the companies that make Limulus amebocyte lysate (LAL), the component of crab blood isolated for use in drug purity testing, say the supply of horseshoe crabs is up to the task of approving the surge in vaccine testing amid the race for a cure to the novel coronavirus, reports the Times.

One company using rFC, which is created by inserting horseshoe crab genes into lab-grown microorganisms, is Eli Lilly, per the Times. Eli Lilly recently announced it had started testing a COVID-19 antibody in humans with nothing but rFC for purity testing, Jay Bolden, a biologist with the company, tells Reuters. Bolden tells the Times his company made the switch because of the synthetic product’s consistent quality, its reduced costs, lack of reliance on an animal population as well as the company’s desire to avoid harming animals where possible.


More than 40,000 samples tested by Eli Lilly using rFC suggested it was just as good as LAL, Bolden tells Reuters. “And that data is out there, and it’s either not being looked at or it’s being ignored… There’s no reason the USP should be asking for more data.”

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[PSM]

Hmmm. I'm seeing a pattern here: Horseshoe bats, horseshoe crabs, is it possible that playing horseshoes is the answer?

[cat in the hat]

Hmmm. I'm seeing a pattern here: Horseshoe bats, horseshoe crabs, is it possible that playing horseshoes is the answer?

Until some inner city Karen starts crying about "those poor animals have to walk around barefoot so you can play a game"

[tom kelly]

Reading the recent postings to this thread leads me to believe a lot of savvy people comprehend the science, biochemistry, genetics, and virology about this virus. SO how many believe that the Bio-Weapons Lab at The Naval University of Engineering in Wuhan China headed by Maj.Gen. Chen Wi was working on this particular virus for scientific investigation as a possible weapon or was it being looked at for a vaccine development ? My vote is that Dr. Wi was trying to weaponize the virus & due to poor or lax safety procedures the virus was spread first in Wuhan and than the rest of the world. The CCP IS NOT TO BE TRUSTED especially when verified by the WHO. COMMENTS ?????

[Airbornelawyer]

In my earlier long post, I listed various ways in which the COVID-19 response, justified with platitudes like "if it saves even one life, it's worth it", was in fact killing people. I mentioned, among other things, cancers and other diseases which were not getting diagnosed and treated. Add cholera, diphtheria, measles and polio to the list.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/14/health/coronavirus-vaccines-measles.html

As poor countries around the world struggle to beat back the coronavirus, they are unintentionally contributing to fresh explosions of illness and death from other diseases — ones that are readily prevented by vaccines.

This spring, after the World Health Organization and UNICEF warned that the pandemic could spread swiftly when children gathered for shots, many countries suspended their inoculation programs. Even in countries that tried to keep them going, cargo flights with vaccine supplies were halted by the pandemic and health workers diverted to fight it.

Now, diphtheria is appearing in Pakistan, Bangladesh and Nepal.

Cholera is in South Sudan, Cameroon, Mozambique, Yemen and Bangladesh.

A mutated strain of poliovirus has been reported in more than 30 countries.

And measles is flaring around the globe, including in Bangladesh, Brazil, Cambodia, Central African Republic, Iraq, Kazakhstan, Nepal, Nigeria and Uzbekistan.

Of 29 countries that have currently suspended measles campaigns because of the pandemic, 18 are reporting outbreaks. An additional 13 countries are considering postponement. According to the Measles and Rubella Initiative, 178 million people are at risk of missing measles shots in 2020.

The risk now is “an epidemic in a few months’ time that will kill more children than Covid,” said Chibuzo Okonta, the president of Doctors Without Borders in West and Central Africa.

...

[Box]

In my earlier long post, I listed various ways in which the COVID-19 response, justified with platitudes like "if it saves even one life, it's worth it", was in fact killing people. I mentioned, among other things, cancers and other diseases which were not getting diagnosed and treated. Add cholera, diphtheria, measles and polio to the list.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/14/health/coronavirus-vaccines-measles.html

Suicide and domestic abuse had a few upticks as well from some of the anecdotal internet stories I have seen...
...but hey 'muh 'Rona


To help dull the edge that sometimes drive the otherwise healty person to the edge of insanity - I offer this little factoid about a hit song that some of you might rember from the late 1970's...
...The Knack released this song in its original form in 1979 as the “B-Side” to their single “Let Me Out” – neither song took off like they thought – so The Knack retooled the lyrics just a tad and the rest – as they say – is history.
Just the same – I like to share what I am pretty sure are the ORIGINAL song lyrics to the 79’ hit single before it went top-40……………….

Ooh, my little viral one, my viral one
When you gonna give me a cough, Corona
Ooh, you make my fever run, my fever run
Got it coming off o' the line, Corona

Never gonna stop, give it up, gotta wash my hands
I always get it up, for a bottle of the sanitizer
My, my, my, aye-aye, whoa!
M-m-m-my Corona

Come a little closer, huh, a-will ya, huh?
Close enough to get in my mask, Corona
Keeping it a mystery, no more TP…
Running down the length of my thigh, Corona

Never gonna stop, give it up, gotta wash my hands
I always get it up, for a bottle of the sanitizer
My, my, my, aye-aye, whoa!
M-m-m-my Corona
M-m-m-my Corona

When you gonna give to me, a cure for me
Is it just a matter of time, Corona?
Is it a conspiracy, conspiracy…
…or is it just a germ in my lungs corona?

Never gonna stop, give it up, gotta wash my hands
I always get it up, for a bottle of the sanitizer
My, my, my, aye-aye, whoa!
M-m-m-m-m-m-m-my, my, my, aye-aye, whoa!
M-m-m-my Corona
M-m-m-my Corona
M-m-m-my Corona
M-m-m-my Corona

Ooooooo-ohhh, my Corona
Ooooooo-ohhh, my Corona
Ooooooo-ohhh, my Corona



Be well and dont forget to wash your hands.
Never forget - NASCAR spreads pestilence but rioting cures the 'Rona

[Badger52]

Just the same – I like to share what I am pretty sure are the ORIGINAL song lyrics to the 79’ hit single before it went top-40……………….
This is way beyond the weekly gem; you have a "body of work" that will be studied for years. Examples:


Box Appreciation-101 (Core requirement; not available to HS AP students)
Exercises in Rhetoric (summer elective); wherein we compare & contrast select works with mysterious events called JADE HELM


as well as...

Pop Culture According to Box (Jeopardy category)
Comprehensive Works of Box (Volume I), the Boxed set, now on SmileAmazon.

[Last hard class]

Some possible good news regarding treatment:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-16/low-cost-drug-is-first-to-improve-covid-patients-survival



Box: nice lyrics

1979: The Knack was an under rated band and Statutory rape was still groovy.
But you know what they say- "if its got a good beat and its easy to dance to"


LHC

[rsdengler]

The Knack retooled the lyrics just a tad and the rest – as they say – is history.
Just the same – I like to share what I am pretty sure are the ORIGINAL song lyrics to the 79’ hit single before it went top-40……………….


Be well and dont forget to wash your hands.
Never forget - NASCAR spreads pestilence but rioting cures the 'Rona

Bahahahaha Box is so damn funny...Priceless...Now go wash your hands and wear a mask, unless you riot....:D

[Badger52]

Breitbart has an interesting piece (https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/06/16/54-scientists-at-national-institutes-of-health-lose-jobs-in-espionage-probe/) I'm sure is related to mymymy my Corona. One of those things that just goes on in the background while we talk about vote by mail, and The Mouse That Roared up in Minneapolis. CNN? Crickets. Also, no congresskritters were overburdened with having to hold hearings or fund anything, as this is what an Executive Branch does.

The U.S. National Institutes of Health (NIH) recently announced that it dismissed or lost to resignations 54 of its scientists amid the ongoing Trump administration probe to weed out suspected Chinese spies from universities and laboratories across the United States.

NIH investigators focused on rooting out grantees who fail to disclose financial ties to foreign governments have identified 399 scientists “of possible concern” as part of a probe launched in August 2018. The NIH is a component of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).

So far, 54 of the identified scientists have lost their jobs, Michael Lauer, NIH’s head of extramural research, revealed during a virtual meeting with a senior advisory panel on Friday. Currently, the agency is actively investigating 189 scientists at 87 institutions, the majority (over 80 percent) of whom are Asian males in their 50s benefitting from Chinese financial support.
...
“To be clear, this is not about the Chinese people as a whole, and it sure as heck isn’t about Chinese Americans as a group,” FBI Director Christopher Wray proclaimed in February. “But it is about the Chinese government and the Chinese Communist Party.”

[FlagDayNCO]

Maybe this will expand into publicly traded companies. At least companies that provide utilities and services to national infrastructure.

How many of our corporate leaders have ties to China Communist Party? Interesting to see how a company changes policy and swings over to the left, the number of Chinese Americans that staff the financial department. They ALL have family in China and ALL are subjected to influence.

[TOMAHAWK9521]

I really like this adaptation of military weaponry for fighting the WuFlu/Kung Flu.:D:lifter
https://billkelsomfg.com/shop/product/m18a1-claymore-antipersonnel-mine-mask/

[tonyz]

I really like this adaptation of military weaponry for fighting the WuFlu/Kung Flu.:D:lifter
https://billkelsomfg.com/shop/product/m18a1-claymore-antipersonnel-mine-mask/

Very cool product...very proud price. $56 US.

At least I think that might include free shipping from UK to USA. :eek: better check to be certain.

[cat in the hat]

I really like this adaptation of military weaponry for fighting the WuFlu/Kung Flu.:D:lifter
https://billkelsomfg.com/shop/product/m18a1-claymore-antipersonnel-mine-mask/

Checked my old claymore bags, none have any writing left or they would be on the way for you to make better versions.

[1stindoor]

I really like this adaptation of military weaponry for fighting the WuFlu/Kung Flu.:D:lifter
https://billkelsomfg.com/shop/product/m18a1-claymore-antipersonnel-mine-mask/

Very cool. I was trying to find one last weekend...much to the chagrin of my spouse, that said "Your Rights Stop Here."

[JJ_BPK]

PSA

I was just reading the updates on the CDC site.
They updated their chart on the probability of COVID-19 risk levels for infection.
Nine(9) being the most likely place to get infected and One(1) is a safe bet

Great news,, you can riot all you want. it doesn't count :lifter:D:lifter

[EricV]

PSA

I was just reading the updates on the CDC site.
They updated their chart on the probability of COVID-19 risk levels for infection.
Nine(9) being the most likely place to get infected and One(1) is a safe bet

Great news,, you can riot all you want. it doesn't count :lifter:D:lifter

Don't see the risk level for "Riot", er... I mean "Peaceful Protesting" either

[Box]

Don't see the risk level for "Riot", er... I mean "Peaceful Protesting" either

Did you NOT look at the graphic?

Risk Level-2:
-Walk, run, or bike with others
-Get car gasoline

Peaceful protestors ride a bike to get car gasoline...
...fill up their containers
...walk down Mainstreet setting fires
...run from the law after securing their big screen TV


Are you just not paying attention?
You need to do better if you're ever going to be woke enough to enoy virus-free protesting.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Y’all know in the game of golf when you slice or shank the ball off the desired path you are supposed to yell - “four” - to properly warn people to cover their head or duck from some little white ball careening through the air; or just look in the direction of the warning so as to get hit in the face instead of the back of the head.



Well, I’ve taken to loudly announcing - “corona” - every time I cough, sneeze or forcefully clear my throat. So far the looks received are either mildly amusing or downright scary (have to follow up with a “just kidding” remark for some people,) but, really have we come to fear someone sneezing in public as a dare to a gun fight outside the local saloon?

At what point does saying “corona” equate to yelling fire in a crowded movie theater?

[PSM]

"Y’all know in the game of golf when you slice or shank the ball off the desired path you are supposed to yell - “four” - to properly warn people to cover their head or duck from some little white ball careening through the air; or just look in the direction of the warning so as to get hit in the face instead of the back of the head."

My son (WO1) was playing with a CW3 at Ft. Carson. The Chief hit the ball into a parallel green and hit a female AF COL in the head. :D My son is like me and could not control his laughing when they went over to apologize.

[Pete]

Navy won't reinstate fired Captain

Since this was covid related I'll post the update here.

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/503607-navy-wont-reinstate-fired-captain-report

"The Navy will not reinstate the fired commander of the USS Theodore Roosevelt aircraft carrier following an investigation of leadership’s handling of a coronavirus outbreak onboard in March.

A congressional aide confirmed to The Hill that the service will uphold its firing of Capt. Brett Crozier, who was removed from his post after a letter he wrote pleading for help with the outbreak leaked in the media.

The Navy will also place a hold on the promotion of Rear Adm. Stu Baker, the one-star commander of Carrier Strike Group 9 and the senior officer onboard the Roosevelt at the time of the COVID-19 outbreak, the source said...."

[1stindoor]

PSA

I was just reading the updates on the CDC site.
They updated their chart on the probability of COVID-19 risk levels for infection.
Nine(9) being the most likely place to get infected and One(1) is a safe bet

Great news,, you can riot all you want. it doesn't count :lifter:D:lifter

Perfect timing really...right before political rallies...just look how little they care for the rest of the country. They openly raise the risk of infection to 9!

[PSM]

They've discovered that the WHO is the only international organization that can dictate policy to the whole world and the world behaves. This is just the beginning. BTW, I've not worn a mask yet and don't intend to until people are dying in the street.

[1stindoor]

They've discovered that the WHO is the only international organization that can dictate policy to the whole world and the world behaves. This is just the beginning. BTW, I've not worn a mask yet and don't intend to until people are dying in the street.

I haven't worn a mask either, except to go to the clinic on post. I find it amusing that they're warning of citations if your caught without a mask...I guess he'll have to get within 6' of me to write it...while, I can only assume, he ignores any kind of protest, looting, fires, wanton destruction of property etc. :mad:

[Gypsy]

BTW, I've not worn a mask yet and don't intend to until people are dying in the street.

There are huge signs all over the stores here (IL), we are not allowed entry without one. :rolleyes: No idea how long this crap will continue.

[PSM]

I haven't worn a mask either, except to go to the clinic on post.

I went to the cardiologist last week for a yearly checkup and was interested in their reaction when I didn't wear one. Nothing. Most of them weren't either. (They discovered that I had a bicuspid aortic valve a couple of years ago and want to keep an eye on it. It's never been a problem but it's interesting. I'm now a minority. :lifter)

There are huge signs all over the stores here (IL), we are not allowed entry without one. :rolleyes:

If I still lived in L.A. I'd probably wear one when out, but there have been so few cases and only a couple of deaths in our county that it's not really a threat. (BTW, all of the bees here are the feared African-American bees we were warned about years ago. They seem to be behaving since they crossed the border. :D)

[Airbornelawyer]

Governor Ralph "Blackface" Northam's decree in Virginia pretty much acknowledges that masks are basically for show, since it says "Medical-grade masks and personal protective equipment should be reserved for medical personnel."

There is a medical exception to the mask rules. "Persons with health conditions that prohibit wearing a face covering. Nothing in this Order shall require the use of a face covering by any person for whom doing so would be contrary to his or her health or safety because of a medical condition." The preservation of my mental health requires that I not become one of the sheep wearing a mask to the grocery store. And, since "[a]ny person who declines to wear a face covering because of a medical condition shall not be required to produce or carry medical documentation verifying the stated condition nor shall the person be required to identify the precise underlying medical condition", I don't have to tell them that's the reason.

There are physical health reasons for not joining in on the mask fetish which I mentioned up-thread. If you are symptomatic, you shouldn't be going to public places in the first place, and if you are asymptomatic but positive, you are not likely to deliver a viral load under normal conditions. So don't play tonsil-hockey with the check-out lady. The masks being worn, meanwhile, are worse than ineffective, since people are constantly fidgeting with them, adjusting the straps or scratching itches, placing their filthy germ-infested hands next to their mucous membranes. And most people are unlikely to dispose of or adequately clean their masks, especially the designer ones, so they become little germ-infested snot-rags (the masks, not the people...). And, in the longer run, trying to eliminate all exposure, even low-level, to pathogens, harms your immune response. If you have a compromised immune system, then by all means take every necessary precaution. But if you do not, help your T-cells help you.

Disclaimer: these are my opinions, not medical advice. If you take medical advice from a lawyer/military historian, then you are pretty much in the same boat as those taking medical advice from politicians and bureaucrats.

[JJ_BPK]

G

There is a medical exception to the mask rules. "Persons with health conditions that prohibit wearing a face covering. Nothing in this Order shall require the use of a face covering by any person for whom doing so would be contrary to his or her health or safety because of a medical condition."

:munchin

[Gypsy]

(BTW, all of the bees here are the feared African-American bees we were warned about years ago. They seem to be behaving since they crossed the border. :D)

:D

[Pete]

Testing has really ramped up the past month.

Back the end of March was when we started hitting 20K new cases a day and now we're around 30K plus. Total number of cases is starting to take off.

Total number of deaths is getting real high.

If you only look at the two figures above it's time to get back in the bunker.

But since April 7th the deaths per day have been trending down

I'd say the increased testing per day is causing the increase while the decreasing deaths is a result of the virus first hitting hard in places like rest homes. Now most rest homes are on alert and the virus is getting detected in the younger population where it does little damage.

Just my opinion because we (NC) go mandated masks at 1700 tomorrow - but with so many exemptions it's mostly a suggestion.

[tom kelly]

Keeping your eye on the virus... More information is leaking out about this virus being engineered in the Wuhan Institute of Virology investigating "gain-function research on nucleic acid manipulation" ! The amino acid Arginine contains 5 adjacent Carbon atoms and a 6th carbon atom attached thru a nitrogen atom. Arginine is converted to a 5-carbon skeleton of ornithine in the urea cycle. Using CRISPR as a genetic editing tool to insert 2 arginines into the genome would cause this viruses human transmission to increase rapidly. Virus site attachment can be enhanced. ACE 2 is the enzyme attached to the outer cell membranes of cells in the lungs, heart, arteries. ACE 2 also serves as the entry point into cells for some coronaviruses.There has been a lot of work in Dr. Chen Wi's lab at the Naval University of Engineering (Wuhan Institute of Virology) to develop a CoVid virus weapon.

[1stindoor]

I'm of the opinion that we're finding more because we're testing more....they're still not broadcasting the millions that were positive, stayed home for two weeks and went back to work.

[Badger52]

I'm of the opinion that we're finding more because we're testing more....they're still not broadcasting the millions that were positive, stayed home for two weeks and went back to work.Yes. I don't track regularly the 2 main commie metro areas here but we had a spate of cases bump quick in my county after the start of the so-called opening that caused a Suzy Creamcheese Freakout. But digging it's a bunch of staff at 2 particular nursing homes other side of the county (not even in patient contact). That & some nearby open testing drive-thru's hosted by the PH folks and the local NG unit. Test more, find more. It's simply a matter of a growing 'n'. The other spike was a run of college kids down to State St. in La Crosse because 'bars'! The bars then get to see their names in the paper, and not in a good way.

Understanding the spike doesn't mitigate the general gov't freakout though.
:munchin

[Old Dog New Trick]

Today the CDC says that for every one new positive test there are ten undetected cases of COVID-19. The most recent recorded day (yesterday) >36,000 tested positive for the virus. Last one day record was 34,203 on April 25. If what they are saying is true when are they going to admit all their bullshit modeling and worst case doomsday scenarios were wrong?

Why can they say if everyone wears a mask and stays 6” away from each other 33,000 less people (of an estimated 168,000) will die this year? Yet attributed no gains from the increased use of cleaning disinfectants used on all public services, hand washing/sanitizer and sick people actually staying home from work because well it’s not only acceptable now it’s expected - if they had a job to stay home from.

Has the CDC released the number of negative tests? How many people are being randomly tested each day and where? Yes there is an uptick in ICU admissions - people who put off taking care of their heart condition, diabetes and other medical issues are finally showing up at the hospital and oh yeah they are positive for COVID-19 - go figure.

Schools (K-16) have been shuttered as well as day care services closed, amusement parks, beaches and the great outdoors, and all sporting events emptied of fans and vacationers from all over the world.

Why does anyone with half a cell in their brain trust anything these medical experts are saying now or said three months ago? Yes, the virus is bad, it kills people of all ages with underlying health issues. The most vulnerable and least protected will undoubtedly suffer the most from this virus but sounds as if we are all going to be infected by the end of the year if not already and then life will go on - without ever having a vaccine.

Anyone else tired of this thing yet? The small businesses and just making ends meet hourly workers who lost their livelihoods will likely never recover and some businesses large and small will go bankrupt and never return to the neighborhoods that relied on them.

[Ret10Echo]

Today the CDC says that for every one new positive test there are ten undetected cases of COVID-19.

So the basis for knowing what they don't know and is not reported is by way of..........Saruman's palantír??


Anyone else tired of this thing yet?

Part of me is thinking... Ok, there is some validity in warning the at-risk population and providing them with mitigation options....

I am annoyed at the sensationalization of the reports and how the stats are twisted to reach the "Max alarm" factor... Can't help but believe that the politicization of everything makes it all so much bullshit...

Yes, Delaware experienced a 507% increase in their death rate compared to last week... (79 versus 13). What does that really mean?

Other states have seen 97% increases in deaths but are only slightly above the historical norms.

Statistics lie So do "experts"...

****

Box,

What is the CDC corollary to the "General at War" rules???

More death, more complexity = more funds.

As Abe Lincoln said, don't believe everything you read on the internet.

[Swoop]

I'm of the opinion that we're finding more because we're testing more....they're still not broadcasting the millions that were positive, stayed home for two weeks and went back to work.

Exactly, all we hear is the number of cases have gone up; but no one is reporting how many of those cases have recovered.....Here there are approximately 38k all time cases with a little over 25k recoveries which leaves around 12.5k active cases. Guess which number gets the most attention.....of course the 38k. :confused:

[Sohei]

Exactly, all we hear is the number of cases have gone up; but no one is reporting how many of those cases have recovered.....Here there are approximately 38k all time cases with a little over 25k recoveries which leaves around 12.5k active cases. Guess which number gets the most attention.....of course the 38k. :confused:

They have to continue to fan the flames of fear to train the sheep. I don't see it getting much better since it was so easy to get people to concede their freedoms.

[tom kelly]

TODAY, 06/26/2020 MSM has stated 16 vaccines for the SARS CoV2 virus are in clinical trials !!! A Poll of American people stated 31% would not take the vaccine. Will this be the next mandatory order issued by the CDC, NIH, Homeland Security, or the WHO???

[Ret10Echo]

TODAY, 06/26/2020 MSM has stated 16 vaccines for the SARS CoV2 virus are in clinical trials !!! A Poll of American people stated 31% would not take the vaccine. Will this be the next mandatory order issued by the CDC, NIH, Homeland Security, or the WHO???

Your vaccination certificate will be required to board aircraft, register for school, apply for a loan, obtain medical care or receive government assistance of any sort.

[Box]

I have don a LOT of detailed research on this and vaccines are bad - not quite flat-earth bad, but pretty bad.

Base on my research, I am afraid if I get vaccinated, I'll become altruistic.............

[JJ_BPK]

Your vaccination certificate will be required to board aircraft, register for school, apply for a loan, obtain medical care or receive government assistance of any sort.

Scarry statement, but

Progressives like Newsom & Cuomo will jump at the prospect of setting up border guards at all entry points. I'm sure Pelosi is working on a bill that includes reparation and vaccination integration. :mad:

[Gypsy]

Definitely will not get it.

[GratefulCitizen]

Looking more and more like there will be repeated "waves"...propagated by media of course.
This will result in non stop calls for vote by mail.

If the vote by mail push is unsuccessful, the left will call the election invalid because of coronavirus voter suppression.
Any bets on a conveniently timed wave of infections this fall?

[PSM]

We're at war, we just don't know it yet. I wonder how slowly the first Civil War spooled up?

[Paslode]

We're at war, we just don't know it yet. I wonder how slowly the first Civil War spooled up?

At least the 1780's. There was the Anti Abolitionist Riots of 1834. The intensity grew with the 1820 Missouri Compromise, and the 1850 Compromise. Old newspapers I have read from the 1850's, maybe even late 1840's have complaints about Abolitionists and the Abolitionist Movement. The second Civil War may have began with the Reconstruction Act of 1867, then the Jim Crow era and things just continued rolling along to where we find ourselves today....or maybe the first Civil War never actually ended, and it has has expanded well beyond slavery and the Civil Rights of Blacks.

[cat in the hat]

Your vaccination certificate will be required to board aircraft, register for school, apply for a loan, obtain medical care or receive government assistance of any sort.

But not to riot, panhandle or vote

[Gypsy]

Looking more and more like there will be repeated "waves"...propagated by media of course.
This will result in non stop calls for vote by mail.

If the vote by mail push is unsuccessful, the left will call the election invalid because of coronavirus voter suppression.
Any bets on a conveniently timed wave of infections this fall?

I'll say...September-ish.

Voting by mail...surely nothing can go wrong with that. :rolleyes:

[Surf n Turf]

Base on my research, I am afraid if I get vaccinated, I'll become altruistic.............

If you are going to become altruistic,..... Then you leave me no choice but to become eleemosynary

SnT

[GratefulCitizen]

My gut tells me this is good info, but my education is in mathematics, not medicine.
Interested in the opinions of folks with the expertise.

On the linked page, there are little charts showing all cause mortality from 21 different countries, with the deaths exceeding the norm being highlighted.
Is this a good measure for determining where a country is at in this pandemic?

https://www.ft.com/content/a26fbf7e-48f8-11ea-aeb3-955839e06441

[Old Dog New Trick]

GC...

I suspect that FT article has merit and shows how this virus sprang into action very quickly infecting nearly everyone that came in contact with it as it spread around the planet. Some (many vulnerable/comorbidity) died and others (majority) got mildly sick if affected at all.

The shutdown and stay at home orders only suppressed the spread and we are now seeing that spike among younger people who venture out in close spaces while the vulnerable are staying clear or remain isolated.

It is and remains my belief (opinion) that this was never as bad as the media made it out to be. Bad yes, but not kill the economy bad and all that comes with that. It got politicized and that horse was off to the races. (Never let a crisis go to waste!)

Also, as I see it and hear, many of the current increases in ICU hospitalizations are a result of people who stayed away from hospitals but are now seeking care for the heart attacks, cancer, diabetes and flu/pneumonia they had these last couple months. Oh and they happen to have been/are infected with COVID-19; although that’s not why they are in an ICU bed.

I think and we shall see someday, that the infection rate is greater than 30-40% of all populated areas and the recovered/never sick rate will catastrophically reduce the mortality rate to something slightly north of influenza.

But hey I’m just a former Army medic and know nothing of the epidemiology of a virus. (Studied Ebola back in the day and became an expert in malaria.)

Still curious that less then 5,000 people died in Wuhan and all of China.

[Badger52]

The shutdown and stay at home orders only suppressed the spread and we are now seeing that spike among younger people who venture out in close spaces while the vulnerable are staying clear or remain isolated.
In my semi-rural county that is the exact situation following the Covid version of glasnost and re-opening of many facets of business & society. Case spikes never seen since the beginning are occurring and the particulars are interesting. LOTS of 20's and 30 somethings where it was predominantly 50's. And, in an adjacent county, a clear relationship to college-town partying down in a few watering holes in that city's section of town. (To the point where that county's PH dep't called them out in the paper by name; said establishments now closed for deep cleaning & rethinking their position.)
Mostly mild, occasionally moderate symptoms. Those at a higher risk are simply and prudently continuing to do what they were doing.

[GratefulCitizen]

Have an old high school friend who is an MD here in Arizona.
Asked him a few questions about the current ICU bed capacity issue in Arizona.

His response:
"My free opinion is worth just what you paid for it, but the ICUs are overwhelmingly dealing with really sick COVID-19 patients. Nobody is there unless they are extremely sick. The problem is that once you make it to the ICU level of care it will takes weeks to a month or more before you get out of the icu. Almost nothing else has ICU stays that long. Increased prevalence and long icu stays equals full ICUs."

[doctom54]

Exactly, all we hear is the number of cases have gone up; but no one is reporting how many of those cases have recovered.....Here there are approximately 38k all time cases with a little over 25k recoveries which leaves around 12.5k active cases. Guess which number gets the most attention.....of course the 38k. :confused:

Here in Arkansas we have a VERY informative interactive map.
https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/c2ef4a4fcbe5458fbf2e48a21e4fece9
It shows total cases, active cases, recovered cases, deaths etc. and you can break it down by county for any of the data you want see. Also, demographic data such as age, gender and race.

The data is there. Of course the talking heads just use the number they want.

[Box]

If you are going to become altruistic,..... Then you leave me no choice but to become eleemosynary

SnT


I feel like you are making fun of anti-vaxxers. You are being an antivaxxer shamer.
There may or may not be proof that vaccinations cause altrusim. Altruism is a serious developmental disorder characterized by difficulties with social interaction and communication AND ANTIVAXXERS SAY IT IS CAUSED BY VACCINES.

I have had difficulties with social interaction and communication for quite some time now and it isn't funny anymore !!!
...kinda funny - hilarious actually - in fact, everything I see on TV lately is causing uncontrollable laughing and/or crying outbursts - kinds like that Arthur Fleck guy that was in that documentary about rising crime rates in Gotham City.

...anyway, altruism isnt funny - neither is that PBR disease that Arthur Fleck suffers from. I drank too much PBR once and I acted crazy for several days.



The chinese wuhan bat flu is real !

[rsdengler]

Base on my research, I am afraid if I get vaccinated, I'll become altruistic.............

If you become "altruistic" and Surf n Turf becomes "eleemosynary", then I'll become commiserated.....:D

[Last hard class]

Still curious that less then 5,000 people died in Wuhan and all of China.

I read an article that said the virus mutations has made the current strain 10 times more infectious than the initial strain that hit China.

Sure would like to toss that bag of shit back over their fence.



LHC

[Airbornelawyer]

I think everyone except the useful idiots on the Left is aware that the official PRC numbers are a load of horse manure. The only question is how much. I recall reading one report, sourced to British Intelligence, that estimated the Chinese were low-balling their numbers by a factor of 40. That would put them closer to 3.5 million cases and 180,000 deaths. The death rate might be lower than the US and Europe because the PRC could take more drastic measures to isolate or eliminate infected individuals.

I took the liberty of updating my April post of case fatality rates in Europe. I am a bit surprised that many have held steady or even worsened. This seems to indicate that many of these countries are not doing much additional testing, which would affect the denominator (confirmed cases), or are continuing to handle the problem badly, affecting the numerator (deaths). Or maybe the numbers have not changed too much on the top and the bottom as Europe is generally well past the peak. The new CFRs are in yellow(ish). France continues to lead the way, and I suspect the numbers may actually be worse, since there are large no-go areas in many French cities where government authorities are not collecting data or bodies.

By comparison, for the United States as of 30 June, the CFR is 4.91%, comparable to Germany, Switzerland and Austria. The only US jurisdictions which come close to the double-digit death rates in countries like the UK, France, Spain and Italy are New York City (10.66%) and Connecticut (9.32%). New York State as a whole is at 8.05%, but without New York City that drops to 4.87%.

The next highest fatality rates are in Michigan (8.77%), New Jersey (8.75%), and Pennsylvania (7.68%). I am sure it is a complete coincidence that the mortality rate from Covid-19 is highest among the elderly, and these three states, along with New York and California, are the ones that ordered nursing homes to take infected patients. In Connecticut, residents in long-term care facilities also are an unusually high percentage (60-70%) of total Covid-19 deaths.

It would not surprise me, frankly, if of the total number of Covid-19 deaths in the United States (126,000 as of June 30), at least 20% are unnecessary deaths due to these northeastern states forcing LTC facilities to take infected patients or failing to adequately respond to the LTC facility problem while pushing more general quarantine and lockdown measures affecting less at-risk populations. I base this on comparing the death rates in LTC facilities in other states who handled the problem better. As a back-of-the-envelope calculation, if 70% of your state's deaths were among LTC facility residents, while the average in other states is closer to 40%-50%, then 20% to 30% of your state's total deaths might be unnecessary, and at worst, the result of gross negligence or reckless indifference by your state's leadership.

I did not complete it for every state, but below is a map with state-by-state case fatality rates to compare with the Europe map.

[Badger52]

^^ Interesting stuff, especially with the noteworthy stats RE long-term care facilities factored in. Thanks very much for the work you put into that.

[Pete]

NC is holding real steady at 67% of it's deaths being in congregate living facilities.

[Airbornelawyer]

From what I can tell by crunching the numbers, in Virginia it is about 55% of deaths among LTC residents. However, here in Fairfax County, which has 13% of Virginia's population and 27% of its Covid-19 deaths, the number is around 67%. I can't get an exact number because the Virginia Health Department published its LTC facility data on 17 June, which gives me a numerator, but I had to work backward from the current total death numbers to get what the denominator was as of 17 June, and I might be off by a day or two.

Arlington County, with 2.8% of Virginia's population, has 7.4% of its Covid-19 deaths. LTC facilities account for 70% of Arlington County deaths.

The Virginia DC suburbs as a whole account for much of the Covid-19 outbreak. The region (Arlington, Fairfax, Prince William and Loudoun counties and the independent cities of Alexandria, Fairfax, Manassas and Manassas Park) has 29% of Virginia's population and 53% of its Covid-19 deaths.

The only other jurisdiction in Virginia with more than 100 deaths is Henrico County, the northern suburb of Richmond. LTC facilities account for about 70% of deaths there.

The highest tolls at any facility were at Canterbury Health and Rehab in Henrico County, where 49 of 154 infected people died, and Annandale Healthcare Center in Fairfax County, where 51 of 156 infected people have died and the outbreak is still listed as "in progress".

I looked at a few other places which have large concentrations of military retirees, such as around Virginia Beach. These places seem to be doing much better than the DC suburbs and Richmond area.

[doctom54]

AS of today in Arkansas 98 out of 270 deaths from LTC for 36%

270 deaths out of 20,777 case for CFR of 1.2%

First thing locked down was the LTCs.

[Airbornelawyer]

According to Maryland's health department, under "COVID-19 in Congregate Living Facility Settings", 1,920 of 3,077 confirmed Covid-19 deaths were in such facilities. That is 62.4%.

And to add to the DC suburb data I gave for Virginia, for the Maryland suburbs of DC it is 32% of Maryland's population and 44% of the state's deaths. I just included the principal suburbs of Montgomery and Prince George's County. I used to live in Howard County and commute to DC, and when I was in 11th Group I commuted from DC to Fort Meade, which straddles Howard and Anne Arundel Counties, but those counties are only partially suburbs of DC as part of the greater Baltimore-Washington area.

For Delaware, based on data from the Division of Public Health, LTC facility residents account for 65% (331/509) of all Covid-19 deaths.

In looking at the various state data sites, I also noticed something a little odd. In almost every state I looked at which gave demographic data for both cases and deaths, Hispanics were proportionately represented among the dead, but were way overrepresented among cases. I suppose it is partly because the Hispanic population is younger on average that the US population as a whole, so even if they get sicker at a higher rate, they also recover at a higher rate. But that does not explain why they are getting sicker at a higher rate. And in many cases way out of proportion. For example, Hispanics are 16.5% of Fairfax County's population and 62% of cases where ethnicity is reported. Even if all non-reported cases turned out to be non-Hispanic, it would be over 51% of cases.

[Old Dog New Trick]

AbnLawyer - a brief explanation for higher infection/death rates among minorities especially Hispanics is more likely than not related to their family unit and housing considerations e.g., larger families living under the same roof.

It’s getting pretty well documented now that it takes repeated exposure with an infected person to get infected yourself.

As for the higher incidence and death among African-Americans I believe it has to do with undiagnosed/underlying health issues from diabetes, hypertension and obesity complicating matters, more so than access.

Although for both groups not having health insurance probably adds to late care where the chance of recovery is diminished.

JMO

[Airbornelawyer]

AbnLawyer - a brief explanation for higher infection/death rates among minorities especially Hispanics is more likely than not related to their family unit and housing considerations e.g., larger families living under the same roof.

It’s getting pretty well documented now that it takes repeated exposure with an infected person to get infected yourself.

As for the higher incidence and death among African-Americans I believe it has to do with undiagnosed/underlying health issues from diabetes, hypertension and obesity complicating matters, more so than access.

Although for both groups not having health insurance probably adds to late care where the chance of recovery is diminished.

JMOI suppose you are right about living conditions, though not just family units. In the early 1990s, I worked at a restaurant in DC and most of my colleagues were Salvadorans. Many were immigrants whose families were still in El Salvador and they lived with multiple roommates.

Besides living conditions, work conditions might also be at play. Hispanics are heavily involved in the service industry. Those in businesses that were shut down like restaurants were probably stuck at home or trying to find alternative work, and so probably were hanging out in groups. Those declared "essential" still had to commute in to work. If you are an accountant or government bureaucrat declared essential, you could work from home; a construction worker or janitor cannot.

I think you are right about co-morbidities being the biggest factor for blacks. Tyler Perry has a theory about blacks, especially in northern cities, not getting enough Vitamin D, but I have no idea if that is just pseudoscience.

[Pete]

Vindicated? Trump-touted COVID-19 drug hydroxychloroquine works, according to new study

Well, well, well. Another study - and it's a tad critical of the other "studies".

"The anti-malaria drug that President Trump touted as a possible treatment for coronavirus, hydroxychloroquine, successfully lowered the death rate among hospitalized COVID-19 patients in the most recent study of the drug......"

&

"...The study scientists point out that other reports about hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for coronavirus that had less positive, mixed, or negative results studied different populations; administered hydroxychloroquine later during illness; used different doses, and/or were not peer-reviewed...."

[Badger52]

Well, well, well. Another study - and it's a tad critical of the other "studies".Those who kept getting denigrated (and sometimes professionally censured) were always saying that the studies were flawed because the drug was being tested in a manner & protocol that it wasn't intended to fill. Academics just can't seem to resist getting in a food fight with clinicians.

Much of the response and (mis) information is now of the level of something I view as being perpetrated on the American people.

Fauci in February: "Stop buying & wearing masks!!! (because we need to horder them for our medical workers)."
Fauci in June: "ALL MASKS, ALL THE TIME!"
One analogy I read from one of the recent pieces lambasting these fake studies said:
"Trying to stop a viral particle with a cloth mask is like trying to stop a mosquito with a chain-link fence."
Hence my use of the term "perpetrated"
:rolleyes:

[Old Dog New Trick]

Vindicated? Trump-touted COVID-19 drug hydroxychloroquine works, according to new study
"...The study scientists point out that other reports about hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for coronavirus that had less positive, mixed, or negative results studied different populations; administered hydroxychloroquine later during illness; used different doses, and/or were not peer-reviewed...."

It went further than that...Remdesivir...isn’t living up to its expectations or cost.

Also non related but the newest strain G614 attacking Americans came from Europe not the other way around. So glad Europe is protecting itself from us. It’s more transmissible but not worse than gen IV (D614) as far as sickness and treatments go.

This thing mutates faster than a Ninja Turtle, I doubt they will ever come up with a vaccine before it’s just ruled a “bat flu” like “bird flu, swine flu, SARS, MERS, etc...” hopefully you don’t get it but if you do we can treat it.

[Trapper John]

Vindicated? Trump-touted COVID-19 drug hydroxychloroquine works, according to new study

Well, well, well. Another study - and it's a tad critical of the other "studies".

"The anti-malaria drug that President Trump touted as a possible treatment for coronavirus, hydroxychloroquine, successfully lowered the death rate among hospitalized COVID-19 patients in the most recent study of the drug......"

&

"...The study scientists point out that other reports about hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for coronavirus that had less positive, mixed, or negative results studied different populations; administered hydroxychloroquine later during illness; used different doses, and/or were not peer-reviewed...."

I said weeks ago that the mechanism of action for HCQ indicates prophylactic/therapeutic efficacy. Molecular Biology rules! Those f'n dumbasses that make policy can't even begin to comprehend the underlying science! I am so damn tired of arguing with scientifically ignorant MDs about shit like this I could just scream!

I am devolving into a rant so I'll just stop. Well just one more thing.:p

I will be acquiring clinical data over the next few months and when the dumbasses come back asking How? [and they will] I'm just gonna hand 'em a number and tell 'em to get in line. :D

[Badger52]

I will be acquiring clinical data over the next few months and when the dumbasses come back asking How? [and they will] I'm just gonna hand 'em a number and tell 'em to get in line. :D"Your number is 14,283.
Now serving #2"

I think Hillerich & Bradsby is still making the Louisville Slugger if they need a clue.
:cool:

[PSM]

I said weeks ago that the mechanism of action for HCQ indicates prophylactic/therapeutic efficacy. Molecular Biology rules!

I saw a map that showed that where Malaria was, Wuhan Virus wasn't. I immediately bought quinine caps and tonic water. Can't know if it had any effect, but I've had them in the Army and survived so why not? (BTW, the claims that quinine is good for leg cramps is absolutely correct! Every time I took them I got leg cramps, so there's that.)

[Trapper John]

I saw a map that showed that where Malaria was, Wuhan Virus wasn't. I immediately bought quinine caps and tonic water. Can't know if it had any effect, but I've had them in the Army and survived so why not? (BTW, the claims that quinine is good for leg cramps is absolutely correct! Every time I took them I got leg cramps, so there's that.)

You funny Pat-san! :D

Badger- Thanks for the reminder re: Louisville Slugger. Gotta get one fur sure :lifter

[Stobey]

I said weeks ago that the mechanism of action for HCQ indicates prophylactic/therapeutic efficacy. Molecular Biology rules! Those f'n dumbasses that make policy can't even begin to comprehend the underlying science! I am so damn tired of arguing with scientifically ignorant MDs about shit like this I could just scream!

I am devolving into a rant so I'll just stop. Well just one more thing.:p

I will be acquiring clinical data over the next few months and when the dumbasses come back asking How? [and they will] I'm just gonna hand 'em a number and tell 'em to get in line. :D


Trapper, isn't zinc also necessary w/the Hydochloroquine?

[Airbornelawyer]

So, we can add unnecessary deaths due to politicization of medicine to my list upthread of ways the Covid-19 response is killing people?

Has anyone heard anything further on that women in Arizona [?] who probably murdered her husband with a dose of fish tank cleaner? A big story when it was useful for Trump and HCQ-bashing, but pretty much ignored since.

[Badger52]

Trapper, isn't zinc also necessary w/the Hydochloroquine?Mildly interested in that as well. The cocktail that I first recall "bursting" onto the public dialogue (done by a practicing clinician, not a political lab coat) was the Hcq, Azithromicin, and Zinc Sulfate.

[Stobey]

Mildly interested in that as well. The cocktail that I first recall "bursting" onto the public dialogue (done by a practicing clinician, not a political lab coat) was the Hcq, Azithromicin, and Zinc Sulfate.


Badger, the Azithromycin is used to treat any "opportunistic" bacterial infections that might have occurred along with the viral infection. I do have an article, from The Gateway Pundit about a Texas nursing home that handled the Who-Flung-Poo virus with that particular "cocktail" and had excellent success. Here is the link to the article:

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/05/80-patients-staff-members-come-coronavirus-texas-nursing-home-hydroxychloroquine-treatment-saves-1-patient/


From the article:

A nursing home in Texas has a hopeful story for those suffering with coronavirus.
The Resort at Texas nursing home had an outbreak of coronavirus that infected 56 residents and 33 staff members.

39 residents gave the doctor permission to use hydroxychloroquine. They all performed well.

Dr. Robin Armstrong immediately administered hydroxychloroquine to the residents and staff members along with Zpac and Zinc.

Only one nursing home patient died since the doctor prescribed the hydroxychloroquine. 55 made it.

[tom kelly]

Another physician, Dr. Valdimir Zelenko a Board Certified Family Practitioner in Monroe New York, 501 Rt.208 Monroe NY 10950 claimed to have successfully treated@ 200 people as of March 23, 2020. with the following treatment regimen: Hydroxychloroquine 200 mg twice a day for 5 days; Azithromycin 500 mg once a day for 5 days; Zinc Sulfate 220 mg once a day for 5 days. The cost of this cocktail is @ $25.00 compared to the NIH antiviral costing @ $1500/dose Drug was developed for the Ebola virus at HIH/Allergy & Infectious disease Division in Bethesda MD.

[Badger52]

Badger, the Azithromycin is used to treat any "opportunistic" bacterial infections that might have occurred along with the viral infection.Thanks, that and the info you cited in the article are remembered.

Also thanks to Tom Kelly. I recall the article discussing Dr. Zelenko. Nice to know those brain cells haven't left... yet. ;)

[PSM]

Has anyone heard anything further on that women in Arizona [?] who probably murdered her husband with a dose of fish tank cleaner? A big story when it was useful for Trump and HCQ-bashing, but pretty much ignored since.

No, but since our moronic, non-descript, Republican Governor keeps caving and closing down a state with only 2 1/2 large metro area (with many retirees), my guess is that the courts are closed as well.

[Pete]

COVID-19 is close to losing its epidemic status in the U.S., according to the CDC

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/covid-19-close-losing-its-epidemic-status-us-according-cdc?utm_source=daily-newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter

"Coronavirus deaths in the country have nearly reached a level where the virus will cease to qualify as an epidemic under Centers for Disease Control and Prevention rules, the federal agency reported on Friday. ...."

While the total cases are trending up the death count has been trending down.

NC has now tested over 1 million people. With a 2019 population estimate of 10.46 million that's +/- 10% of the population.

[tom kelly]

Seems that no-one has died of heart disease, stroke, cancer, medical malpractice, auto accidents & other injuries EXCEPTIONS; 187's (Homicide). Are hospitals in the USA not performing autopsies for confirmation of cause of death?

[Ret10Echo]

Seems that no-one has died of heart disease, stroke, cancer, medical malpractice, auto accidents & other injuries EXCEPTIONS; 187's (Homicide). Are hospitals in the USA not performing autopsies for confirmation of cause of death?

Just spit-balling here... but I would suggest that more Wuhan-Rona deaths gets you more State and Fed dollars so why would a hospital claim anything else?

[Badger52]

Just spit-balling here... but I would suggest that more Wuhan-Rona deaths gets you more State and Fed dollars so why would a hospital claim anything else?Spit ball? I'll bet you were a terror in school with little wads of paper & a field-stripped pen. Anecdotal from a local county health person. They were told by state to revise COD for the one death - even after being recounted over a couple paras in local rag where doctor made clear that there were several underlying causes but positive test result = more bak sheesh Sahib. Same with some other admissions, regardless of pri or secondary Dx. Positive test is a corona hospitalization. It happen$ for real.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Yeah but, they could only attribute 262 deaths to corona yesterday and that is the whole US total for one day. Eight of those came from New York where they are rolling out phase III of recovery.

In other MSM news over 54,000 people (who a majority were likely practicing social distancing rules and wearing masks) tested positive for the having the virus. But let’s blame it on river rafting, drinking and going to the beach. Not that masks are ineffective for controlling the airborne spread of the virus from infected people wearing a mask.

In not so other news reported from the MSM, no one participating in protests and riots have tested positive for the virus so that activity is being allowed by the same governors and mayors who have locked down their states and cities for legitimate businesses and social gatherings of family members and close friends.

[Badger52]

In not so other news reported from the MSM, no one participating in protests and riots have tested positive for the virus so that activity is being allowed by the same governors and mayors who have locked down their states and cities for legitimate businesses and social gatherings of family members and close friends.You got me LMAO. I'm sure the 52 positives out of the 411,000 who physically voted in the spring primary here didn't have a problem admitting where they were when asked.

Does everyone at these riots suddenly go docile if they get tested and admit they were at a Marxists Act Out celebration? That's data the PH people are not likely to ever get so let's "give 'em room to riot."

"But ain't these new Nikes lookin' good?"

[Airbornelawyer]

The media continues to report on the "spike" in cases without noting there is no spike in hospitalizations or deaths. They are especially breathless in their reporting on certain states outside the Northeast with Republican governors and/or legislatures.

This prompted me to look at the date I published up-thread less than a week ago. Since I posted that data as of 30 June, the case fatality rate has fallen in Florida from 2.4% to 1.89%, in Texas from 1.57% to 1.35%, in Oklahoma from 3.09% to 2.54%, in Arizona from 2.13% to 1.91% (1.80% for confirmed cases/deaths), and in Georgia from 3.51% to 3.06%. For the US as a whole, it has dropped from 4.91% as of 30 June to 4.56% as of 5 July.

As has been said repeatedly, but it is helpful to keep reminding ourselves, a CFR is a crude measure, especially in the midst of a health crisis, because the numerator (deaths) and denominator (cases) keep changing. But the trend itself is worth knowing, and it is good to see it moving in the right direction.

There are a few exceptions, primarily in the Northeastern US hotspots, but even there it is a case of the rate holding steady or declining only slightly. New Hampshire had a slight uptick from 6.37% to 6.42%, but small sample size is a factor there.

On a separate but related note, I still have not figured out why with as bad as Covid-19 has been in LTC facilities, it is still safer to be in a US nursing home than in the entire country of France. This is not just a knock on France; it is merely the worst of a cluster of Western European nations with double-digit fatality rates. Did they mishandle their response that badly or callously? Did their primarily state-run health care systems simply triage a bunch of elderly patients as not worth saving? Or are they simply not testing or collecting data the same way, so it is an apples to oranges comparison?

[Old Dog New Trick]

On a separate but related note, I still have not figured out why with as bad as Covid-19 has been in LTC facilities, it is still safer to be in a US nursing home than in the entire country of France. This is not just a knock on France; it is merely the worst of a cluster of Western European nations with double-digit fatality rates. Did they mishandle their response that badly or callously? Did their primarily state-run health care systems simply triage a bunch of elderly patients as not worth saving? Or are they simply not testing or collecting data the same way, so it is an apples to oranges comparison?

IMHO - this has all been apples to some other fruit (including raisins.) I doubt we even know the validity of the tests being conducted in other countries. The WHO is still being very duplicitous and obfuscating what it knew and when it knew. The EU continues to fling poo at the US even though it’s becoming evident the spread of the virus to the world was through Europe and the mutations of the virus have happened in Europe making it more deadly than the Chinese strain.

Our LTC problem was a failure from the get-go to secure those facilities quickly enough and use long standing “infectious control” protocols to prevent the spread of infectious diseases from staff members who likely created a pipeline from in-home-care, hospital wards and nursing home without following sanitation guidelines. That and “orders” to return known infected patients back to LTC facilities for EOL comfort care. An investigation needs to be done from Washington to New York to find out why so many of these patients died from COVID-19 and how they were exposed.

My guess is several countries are not publicly providing data to limit world scorn and leadership embarrassment. China still leads the way!

The only thing ‘orange’ is “Orange Man Bad” and that’s the MSM narrative until election results come in.

On a supporting note, what’s gonna happen when we reach 100,000,000 positive tests, an unreported number of negative results and an estimated number of COVID deaths at (hopefully) less than 250,000?

Can we then say the ‘scientists’ (like Bill Gates and Bill Nye) are not only wrong on infectious diseases but perhaps they are wrong on climate change and just about every other hypothesis they have peddled for the last 30+ years?

Can a “brain fart” be called a “Fauci” moment in the future?

[JJ_BPK]

Question: Is this the way intubated patients are "staged"?

The pic was posted on FB by a non-medical HS classmate.
Just does not look correct :confused:

Thanks

[Razor]

It looks like prone positioning may be helpful to ARDS recovery.

"Prone Position in Management of COVID-19 Patients; a Commentary"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7158870/

[Airbornelawyer]

Before I delve into a little more number-crunching, a question (actually two) for those of you with a background in statistics or epidemiology. As has been repeatedly pointed out, one problem with the case fatality rate measure is the changing denominator as more people get tested. So, first question, given that we are unlikely to test 100% of the population, at what point do you consider the amount of testing to be statistically significant and thus close to giving us reliable numbers? And second but related to the first, given that the testing currently being done is generally not random, is this useless for drawing reliable conclusions?

For reference, as of yesterday, California with a population of 39.5 million, had conducted 4.8 million tests, so about 12% of the population (give or take, since some people have likely been tested more than once, and some were from out of state). A random sample of tests as a rough percentage of population for other states include Connecticut - 14.6%, Florida - 10.4%, Georgia - 10.6%, Illinois - 14.0%, and Virginia - 9.2%. I would guess that most other states are also around 10% or so.

And now, back to the number-crunching. As a few articles or internet posts have noted, for all the panic and locking down of the entire economy and society over the past few months, Covid-19 primarily only seriously affects the elderly, especially those with co-morbidities. For most others, it may not be much worse that the seasonal flu. In general, about 80-85% of deaths have been of people over 70 and about 90-95% have been of those over 60.

Here are a few numbers to give this context. Note that different states record data differently.

California:
Age 0-17: no deaths; CFR = 0
Age 18-49: 384 deaths in 178767 cases; CFR = 0.24%
Age 50-64: 1044 deaths in 54836 cases; CFR = 1.90%
Age 65 + : 4872 deaths in 35441 cases; CFR = 13.75%

Connecticut:
Age 0-19: 2 deaths in 1068 cases; CFR= 0.19%
Age 20-39: 25 deaths in 12396 cases; CFR= 0.20%
Age 40-59: 232 deaths in 14535 cases; CFR= 1.60%
Age 60-69: 533 deaths in 6551 cases; CFR= 8.14%
Age 70-79: 945 deaths in 4416 cases; CFR= 21.40%
Age 80 +: 2601 deaths in 6952 cases; CFR= 34.71%

Recall that Connecticut's overall fatality rate is worst among the 50 states.

Florida:
Age 0-14: 1 death in 9847 cases; CFR = 0.01%
Age 15-34: 28 deaths in 75301 cases; CFR = 0.03%
Age 35-54: 218 deaths in 63889 cases; CFR = 0.34%
Age 55-64: 342 deaths in 24774 cases; CFR = 1.38%
Age 65-74: 784 deaths in 14852 cases; CFR = 5.28%
Age 75-84: 1056 deaths in 8829 cases; CFR = 11.96%
Age 85 + : 1349 deaths in 5561 cases; CFR = 24.26%

Illinois:
Age 0-19: 4 deaths in 11519 cases; CFR= 0.03%
Age 20-39: 135 deaths in 49388 cases; CFR= 0.27%
Age 40-59: 829 deaths in 50321 cases; CFR= 1.65%
Age 60-69: 1253 deaths in 17151 cases; CFR= 7.31%
Age 70-79: 1678 deaths in 9534 cases; CFR= 17.60%
Age 80 +: 3127 deaths in 9895 cases; CFR= 31.60%

More children have been killed by gunfire in the last 2 weeks in Chicago alone than have died of Covid-19 in the entire state this year.

Virginia:
Age 0-19: 0 deaths in 7008 cases; CFR= 0%
Age 20-39: 17 deaths in 23510 cases; CFR= 0.07%
Age 40-59: 158 deaths in 21610 cases; CFR= 0.73%
Age 60-69: 267 deaths in 6486 cases; CFR= 4.12%
Age 70-79: 461 deaths in 3378 cases; CFR= 13.65%
Age 80 +: 948 deaths in 3473 cases; CFR= 27.30%

Federal Republic of Germany:
Age 0-19: 3 deaths in 14560 cases; CFR= 0.02%
Age 20-49: 107 deaths in 86421 cases; CFR= 0.12%
Age 50-69: 1181 deaths in 59519 cases; CFR= 1.98%
Age 70-89: 6029 deaths in 30279 cases; CFR= 19.91%
Age 90 +: 1691 deaths in 5359 cases; CFR= 31.55%

In Germany, people over 70 account for 86% of all Covid deaths. People over 50 account for 98.8%. That may be one of the reasons why Germany was among the first places to reopen schools, even as other large events, such as Oktoberfest, which draw an older population, have remained cancelled.

Also looking at German data, I note that I gave a CFR of 4.6% above for the country as a whole. Four states were higher than this average: Saarland at 6.2%, Bavaria at 5.33%, Baden-Württemberg at 5.13% and Hamburg at 5.00%. Hamburg is a densely-populated city-state, so a higher rate stands to reason. The main thing the other three states seem to have in common is they border Austria, Switzerland and France, so they were likely the first places in Germany affected as the pandemic spread from Italy north. Germany on the whole has a somewhat older population than the US, but I am not sure how these states compare to other states. Despite their higher population densities, Berlin and North Rhine-Westphalia were below the German average.

I can't get a good number for LTC facility deaths in Germany, because German law categorizes LTCs along with a number of other high-occupancy facilities, so the German number includes not just nursing homes, but homeless shelters, refugee/asylum-seeker facilities and prison.

Regarding France, there does seem to be some defensiveness from French sources about their high death rate, as well as a bit of playing the blame game, especially with regard to countries like Germany allegedly hoarding PPE. I also looked at some data from the Institut national de la statistique et des études économiques. As high as they is, the overall numbers for France are relatively unchanged over recent weeks as the crisis there is essentially over, not that politicians and bureaucrats seem willing to admit it and let a crisis go to waste. Since the beginning of May, the daily mortality rate for all deaths in France has returned to the average of previous years (chart here (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/D%C3%A9c%C3%A8s_06_juil.png)). In fact, deaths are in many cases lower than in previous years, suggesting either that the lockdowns reduced mortality in other areas such as traffic accidents, or that Covid-19 killed many people in March and April who would have died in May, June or later anyway. There is a breakdown by age, but it only covers those who died in hospitals.

[Pete]

There is a story today in the NYT that the title runs "DNA inherited from Neanderthals may increase risk of Covid-19"

Behind a paywall

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/04/health/coronavirus-neanderthals.html?smid=tw-share

"A stretch of DNA linked to Covid-19 was passed down from Neanderthals 60,000 years ago, according to a new study.

Scientists don’t yet know why this particular segment increases the risk of severe illness from the coronavirus. But the new findings, which were posted online on Friday and have not yet been published in a scientific journal, show how some clues to modern health stem from ancient history.

“This interbreeding effect that happened 60,000 years ago is still having an impact today,” said Joshua Akey, a geneticist at Princeton University who was not involved in the new study.

This piece of the genome, which spans six genes on Chromosome 3, has had a puzzling journey through human history, the study found. The variant is now common in Bangladesh, where 63 percent of people carry at least one copy. Across all of South Asia, almost one-third of people have inherited the segment...."

This is the first I heard about the number of people in southern Asia with Neanderthal Chromosome 3.

I've read that the highest concentration of Neanderthal DNA was in people in broadly N/W Europe.

[Box]

Before I delve into a little more number-crunching, a question (actually two)...

I hated Business statistics. It made me sick to my stomach. The only subject that gave me worse nightmares was when physics would sneak its way into my astronomy class. Statistics are the science of the devil. Statistics don’t lie – but if I manipulate my data sample, I can HONESTLY make hair loss and premature ejaculation look like the harbingers of biblical Armageddon.
These insidious COVID-19 panic-porn cock suckers have successfully conflated their infected sample size with the overarching global demographic and are using it told the entire human race hostage.
IT.JUST.ISNT.TURE

So, without further adieu, I offer my opinion...
…and we all know the true value of my opinion. Just this weekend I attempted to purchase a small bag of Black Rifle Coffee from a local vendor using my opinion and good looks – I successfully brewed my next cup of Joe using a K-Cup of Victor Allens French Roast that I purchased in bulk after my opinion and good looks failed to score so much as a wiff of the BRC blend.

The amount of data collection needed to be statistically significant always depends on the desired end state. In other words what is the goal of compiling and analyzing these statistics? Ideally the larger the sample and the fewer the variables, the more accurate your results will be. Right now we are being forced to draw broad conclusions from a very ill defined data set. I think we already have significant statistical data to show that COVID-19 "statistically" concentrates itself in the demographic known as "sick old people"
Everything else is little more than a Semi-scientific Wild-Assed Guess.

…given that the testing currently being done is generally not random, is this useless for drawing reliable conclusions?
Not only is the current data collection pretty much the OPPOSITE of random, the folks collecting the data are in a constant state of moving the goal posts. This type of data collection as part of an epidemiologic study is about as “effective as trying to solve an algebra equation by chewing bubble gum.” If I have a set of dice, I can roll them and expect a generally random outcome based on each die having six sides with unique numbers. I can draw reliable conclusions by repeating the experiment a set number of times and recording the results. If one of these dice is “loaded” my testing is no longer random and my conclusions are not reliable.

Coronavirus testing is being done with loaded dice. There is no random testing. People that are not sick, have no symptoms, and have no direct exposure to a known COVID-19 patient have no reason to be tested. Conflating any results with the broader cross section of society is wildly inaccurate. Those who would present those results as factual are not only being intellectually dishonest, the fact that they are presenting their findings in an environment that directly impacts the very fabric of our society represents some of the most unethical professional conduct that I can imagine.
You might as well let Bernie Madoff explain the statistical analysis before Reverend Fauci preaches about it on CNN.


Just my two cents for now...............

[Last hard class]

So. If everyone over 50 were to die we could wrap this thing up and put a bow on it.
I think they already made that movie.


How to determine a statistic's validity?
Democrats utilize confirmation bias. Republicans practice motivated reasoning.




LHC

[Box]

I believe it goes well beyond applying a partisan identification to the concepts of confirmation bias or motivated reasoning.

**Democrats could easily be accused of motivational reasoning; “the current POTUS is evil – his rote mismanagement of the pandemic” is all the emotional motivation a democrat need to go off the rails to drive their argument that we’re all going to die if we don’t wear a mask. Pretty easily supported by their literal admission on the left that:
they'd rather see the economy crash than to see Trump reelected
any of Joe Biden's accused evils are better than any positive impacts that Trump may have had on the economy
hell, even the Ragin-Cajun just said he'd support a Biden-Palin ticket if it meant beating Trump

**The refusal to accept any truth beyond “this is all just a shadow government attempt at harming the POTUS politically” is all the confirmation bias that a republican needs to prove that COVID-19 is just a weak and fabricated version of the common flu that only attacks less than 1% of the global populace.
...because anything Trump Tweets is acceptable as long a sit targets leftists
...anything the POTUS does is acceptable as long as it keeps the left on their heels

The changing versions of “truth” that we have all been watching unfold over the last several months are neither accurate NOR scientific.

It is my own opinion (based on my admittedly biased, partisan, and wildly hypocritical ideology) that the global community was intentionally “spooked” early on – and that the INTENTIONAL panic UNINTENTIONALLY spiraled out of control before the purveyors of premature panic porn had given any thought to the consequences. None of the partisan hacks (from either side of the aisle) will ever come clean – especially the dirty…
…dirty
…dirty, democrats

[rsdengler]

None of the partisan hacks (from either side of the aisle) will ever come clean – especially the dirty…
…dirty
…dirty, democrats


Maybe the "dirty Demowhacks" need a bit of soap, in all the right spots.....Politics is a f'ing ground in dirty business. And Politicians are that speck of ground dirt you just cannot get out of your carpet. Let's fudge numbers, because it's all about control and manipulation of the public. Some follow, some rightfully give the middle finger....Life is grand isn't it?:D

[Box]

Politicians are that speck of ground dirt you just cannot get out of your carpet...


Just my two cents - but "we the people" can absitivley posolutely get the dirt out of the carpet - "we the people" are all just too damn lazy to get the vacuum cleaner out of the closet.

[Trapper John]

I hated Business statistics. It made me sick to my stomach. The only subject that gave me worse nightmares was when physics would sneak its way into my astronomy class. Statistics are the science of the devil. Statistics don’t lie – but if I manipulate my data sample, I can HONESTLY make hair loss and premature ejaculation look like the harbingers of biblical Armageddon.
These insidious COVID-19 panic-porn cock suckers have successfully conflated their infected sample size with the overarching global demographic and are using it told the entire human race hostage.
IT.JUST.ISNT.TURE

So, without further adieu, I offer my opinion...
…and we all know the true value of my opinion. Just this weekend I attempted to purchase a small bag of Black Rifle Coffee from a local vendor using my opinion and good looks – I successfully brewed my next cup of Joe using a K-Cup of Victor Allens French Roast that I purchased in bulk after my opinion and good looks failed to score so much as a wiff of the BRC blend.

The amount of data collection needed to be statistically significant always depends on the desired end state. In other words what is the goal of compiling and analyzing these statistics? Ideally the larger the sample and the fewer the variables, the more accurate your results will be. Right now we are being forced to draw broad conclusions from a very ill defined data set. I think we already have significant statistical data to show that COVID-19 "statistically" concentrates itself in the demographic known as "sick old people"
Everything else is little more than a Semi-scientific Wild-Assed Guess.

…given that the testing currently being done is generally not random, is this useless for drawing reliable conclusions?
Not only is the current data collection pretty much the OPPOSITE of random, the folks collecting the data are in a constant state of moving the goal posts. This type of data collection as part of an epidemiologic study is about as “effective as trying to solve an algebra equation by chewing bubble gum.” If I have a set of dice, I can roll them and expect a generally random outcome based on each die having six sides with unique numbers. I can draw reliable conclusions by repeating the experiment a set number of times and recording the results. If one of these dice is “loaded” my testing is no longer random and my conclusions are not reliable.

Coronavirus testing is being done with loaded dice. There is no random testing. People that are not sick, have no symptoms, and have no direct exposure to a known COVID-19 patient have no reason to be tested. Conflating any results with the broader cross section of society is wildly inaccurate. Those who would present those results as factual are not only being intellectually dishonest, the fact that they are presenting their findings in an environment that directly impacts the very fabric of our society represents some of the most unethical professional conduct that I can imagine.
You might as well let Bernie Madoff explain the statistical analysis before Reverend Fauci preaches about it on CNN.


Just my two cents for now...............

Finest Kind once again! Excellent treatise and explains why I HATE the politicization of Science or anything else that dribbles out of he mouths of the 2 Bills for that matter(Gates and Nye). :D

[rsdengler]

Just my two cents - but "we the people" can absitivley posolutely get the dirt out of the carpet - "we the people" are all just too damn lazy to get the vacuum cleaner out of the closet.

I wish more of us would use that vacuum cleaner once in awhile. They are truly despicable people we have in office. And "we the people" need to get off our damn asses and burnout our vacuums...

[Badger52]

I wish more of us would use that vacuum cleaner once in awhile. They are truly despicable people we have in office. And "we the people" need to get off our damn asses and burnout our vacuums...I suspect most people do not track even what their locals have done between election cycles and don't get spun up until within 6 months of a general election. How many folks, out of whatever sample size you like, attend local councils or review minutes from them to determine what those critters have been up to? And then when the tick goes door to door to ask for another vote, confront them about what they've done (or haven't done) for the last 23 months or whatever?

Local accountability; it's what's for dinner.
:munchin

[rsdengler]

I suspect most people do not track even what their locals have done between election cycles and don't get spun up until within 6 months of a general election. How many folks, out of whatever sample size you like, attend local councils or review minutes from them to determine what those critters have been up to? And then when the tick goes door to door to ask for another vote, confront them about what they've done (or haven't done) for the last 23 months or whatever?

Local accountability; it's what's for dinner.
:munchin

Exactly, people tend to vote the same incompetent idiots into office all the time. Reap what you sow....Plus, they never look at their voting records and we all know Politicians lie to get into that cushy spot. Promise everything, but later they sit in their own shit heap and rub their chubby little hands together in glee. Meanwhile this Country is going to hell with The Masters Of Mayhem at the helm. The Bahamas look better every damn day....F'It....

[Badger52]

The Bahamas look better every damn day....F'It....Your timing cracks me up. I was just wonderin' if the Conch Republic has declared war again yet.

[rsdengler]

Your timing cracks me up. I was just wonderin' if the Conch Republic has declared war again yet.


Hahahaha....with all this crazy shit going on, you never know when "The Conch Republic" will rise up and give the one finger salute to everyone....:D

[Box]

I wish more of us would use that vacuum cleaner once in awhile. They are truly despicable people we have in office. And "we the people" need to get off our damn asses and burnout our vacuums...


Rita, it is far too late to look at the vacuum cleaner as a single use item. Just getting the dirt off the welcome-mat does nothing to remove the bum that has camped out next to it.
You've got to unplug the vacuum cleaner and use the cord to put whelps on his back until he learns to stop sleeping on your porch.

A little dirt is easy to handle - it's the dirty smelly bum that has made a habit of blocking your front door that needs to be dealt with.

[rsdengler]

Rita, it is far too late to look at the vacuum cleaner as a single use item. Just getting the dirt off the welcome-mat does nothing to remove the bum that has camped out next to it.
You've got to unplug the vacuum cleaner and use the cord to put whelps on his back until he learns to stop sleeping on your porch.

A little dirt is easy to handle - it's the dirty smelly bum that has made a habit of blocking your front door that needs to be dealt with.

Lol...You're making it way too hard for me to clean up the "really dingy grime". A "dirty smelly putrid bum" well that'll take a little more effort.....just give me a big shovel.....

[tom kelly]

has anyone thought about "Chinese" collusion with the deep state actors like DNC, The Perkins Coie Law Firm , MSM, The Communist Party of America. The situation in the USA is more than critical. The DNC has brain dead Joe as their "presumptive" candidate for POTUS, Look into his eyes, listen to him talk, He is DOA & everybody knows it including the MSM that is pretending that all is OK. He can't tie his shoes let alone make basic decisions. I don't think he will choose a VP running mate, that decision is being made by the power brokers in the DNC & Wash. DC beltway.

[Box]

has anyone thought about "Chinese" collusion with the deep state actors like DNC

I have never NOT thought about that.
I went down the conspiratorial path of communist party collusion with elected US democrats waay back in the 90's when the clinT0n synDicaTe first took power......

It wont be long before we have reached the undeniable "I told you so" moment.
I mean, it will be way too late by then, and anyone who actually SAYS the words, "I told you so" will be cast into the lake of fire by the democrats running the politburo - but just knowing you were right isn't going to be enough to keep you warm at night.

[Old Dog New Trick]

I told you so.

I’ve been telling people since 1993 that the government is selling our institutional knowledge, technology and security to the Chinese and some European and Soviet nations for power and profits.

Where I went wrong was it started in 1989 (or as early as 1963) and kept going straight through until 2017, and the Democratic Party and globalist RINOs (Bush family) would like to see it return to the status quo.

I hope history is corrected some day to show how globalist ambition and false claims of climate and social changes destroyed the population long before the world was actually stressed from environmental reasons or social constructs.

COVID-19 is only a symptom of globalization without the safety net of country specific sovereignty and physical barriers to protect its citizens.


Note: I’m not anti globalization for economic co-benefit, security and immigration. I am against selling our national identity and security for profit or control of one party over another or where harm to intellectual rights and property are suspended for greed and power.

[Old Dog New Trick]

So, on the advice of a friend who has had Covid-19 and survived after three different hospitalizations over a few weeks period. He recommended I buy a Pulse Oximeter to monitor my O2 saturation levels as they are a first indicator of failing respiratory function.

Today one of two popular leading brands on Amazon showed up. I bought two because I wanted to: a) compare them. b) have one for the road and one at home for the wife to share.

Pretty basic, battery operated, one cost $29 before tax the other $35. (The cheaper one showed up today)

On start up my SpO2 was 98% falling to 96% over a minute of regular breathing and pulse around 67bpm. Tried to increase volume but watched my saturation level go down to 95% and my PR raise to 74 so I stopped and went back to chores I was working on. Second test came it at 98% and stayed there with a PR of 74bpm.

My greatest concern is what’s happening to me at work where I have to wear a mask the whole time and function in an environment with already decreased O2. I get tired and sleepy more often now and think it’s rebreathing CO2 trapped in the mask. Now I will be able to monitor my O2 levels and also develop norms over time and activity so that if there is a decreasing level before other symptoms may occur I’ll be able to have a better idea what’s going on.

My friend (who is Dutch) is about my age and fairly healthy practicing Martial arts and other fitness routines but was left feeling pretty hopeless and disoriented during his recurring episodes of hypoxia. The Dutch (Amsterdam) hospital treated him with O2 and supportive therapy but no ventilation or anti-viral drugs that I’m aware of. He does mention being given an expectorant to break up the mucus in his lungs. It would seem that in Europe you either survive on your own or die. The medical system will send you home with O2 bottles and masks but not give you instructions if the regulator fails to connect to the new bottle when changing.

Anyway, I will give a brief comparison when I get the second unit and also see if they give different reading at the same time.

[Last hard class]

He recommended I buy a Pulse Oximeter to monitor my O2 saturation levels

Pretty basic, battery operated, one cost $29

I may have the same one ( zacurate). Will be interested in whether you think the more expensive model performs better.




LHC

[Old Dog New Trick]

I may have the same one ( zacurate). Will be interested in whether you think the more expensive model performs better.




LHC

Pro500 yep that’s the one. Amazon Pick. Will let you know if any differences are noted.

ETA: stick this in here too for others contemplating using a Pulse/Ox meter.

https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/hcp/pulseoximetry.pdf

[1stindoor]

I told you so.

Here's my prediction. Biden will beat Trump because Trump has failed to see he has become as divisive as HRC. Biden will have a running mate picked out for him by the RNC that will "finish" his term when he is deemed not mentally capable of completing it. That VP, will take the following election as well.

[Old Dog New Trick]

I’m going to make a bold prediction here.

Masks are not protecting us; they are likely leading to the spread of the virus through both ineffective filtering (both directions); that it causes us to touch our faces 100% more times than we otherwise do in a day; and lastly people don’t know how to wear whatever it is they have causing over confidence - leading to lack of other protective measures like hand washing or sanitizer.

I believe this so much so that it’s one of the reasons the virus is spreading faster now than it did before. It’s spreading through Japan like wildfire and they are “experts” at wearing masks.

A cloth mask, bandanna, neck gator, or even a medical grade surgical mask does not stop a virus that is smaller than .125 microns.

We are being had, the whole world is being had.

As always JMHO - YM(ask)MD

[bblhead672]

My greatest concern is what’s happening to me at work where I have to wear a mask the whole time and function in an environment with already decreased O2. I get tired and sleepy more often now and think it’s rebreathing CO2 trapped in the mask. Now I will be able to monitor my O2 levels and also develop norms over time and activity so that if there is a decreasing level before other symptoms may occur I’ll be able to have a better idea what’s going on.



Wearing Mask-A Sledgehammer to Health (https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/07/mark-sircus/wearing-masks-a-sledgehammer-to-health/)

Under the mask, O2 readings drop from a regular 21 to an unhealthy 17.5, ringing the alarm of the official OSHA devices that measure such things.

The usual amount of CO2 in the air is approximately 400 ppm, when measured around the nose of mouth would be higher. But wear a mask and concentrations shoot up to 5,000. This is not healthy! Carbon dioxide in the air we breathe usually is at 0.0390 percent. When we breathe out, it is 4.0 percent. It is not the concentration we want to be breathing in.

Is there a simple device like the pulse oximeter to measure CO2 levels in your blood?

[Box]

RANT MODE ACTIVATED

Bill Nye the I'm not really a scientist guy needs to SHUT.THE.FUCK.UP. with his mask nonsense. Stick to engineering Bill - let Doctors teach everyone about medicine you silly fuck.

N95 masks DO NOT protect an uninfected public from an infected person that is wearing one. If you are healthy and wearing one to stay safe inpublic, you are doing it right...
...but you're an asshole because those should be left to the Health Care Industry so they can be used to protect the nurses and doctors from sick patients.

Standard Surgical masks do not protect an uninfected wearer from an infected public.
but if you are sick and wearing one to keep from spreading your pestilence, congratulations, you're doing it right...
...but you are also a fucking asshole for pulling a Fredo Cuomo and going out in public when you KNOW that you are sick.

Cloth masks made with all of the bullshit feel good fashion design don't really protect anyone from anything and more and more "professionals" are showing that a cloth mask most likely does more harm than good.
They are not enough to stop a virus..
They are just thick enough to retard the wearers ability to breath the way nature intended.
If you are wearing one - congratulations - you are an obedient subject that has proven your loyalty to the governing class.

Testing isn't a cure - and shouldn't drive the treatment. If you ain't sick - don't waste fucking resources on tests that aren't indicated. Many of the "experts" have already backpedaled to the point of stating that the early treatment habit of "they have COVID-19, ventilate, STAT" may very well have done more damage to patients than good. Every health care provider is taught not to treat lab results or machine readings...
TREAT.THE.FUCKING.PATIENT.

but here we are - uncle joe campaigning on a platform that corona testing saves lives and 'Bill Nye the I'm not really a scientist guy' teaching people that as long as you cant blow out a candle - your mask is saving lives.
fuck you Bill
fuck you and that stupid looking bow tie.
Fuck you right in your not really a scientist stupid looking bow tie wearing asshole.
fuck you too joe - you hair sniffing pervert

...the only thing that protects the masses from this type of shit is a vaccine or the age old natural process of herd immunity.
Of course we all know the liberal-Karen-soccer-mom demographic is afraid of vaccinations because Ace Ventura and Playboy's Miss October '93 both claim that vaccines will make your kids autistic.

Americans are driving me out of my ever loving mind with this blind hero worship and insistence that President Josiah Bartlett might actually have a viable strategy for a productive domestic economic policy.
Fuck you all very much - kiss my ass - thank you and good night.




RANT MODE DEACTIVATED

[rsdengler]

RANT MODE ACTIVATED


but here we are - uncle joe campaigning on a platform that corona testing saves lives and 'Bill Nye the I'm not really a scientist guy' teaching people that as long as you cant blow out a candle - your mask is saving lives.
fuck you Bill
fuck you and that stupid looking bow tie.
Fuck you right in your not really a scientist stupid looking bow tie wearing asshole.
fuck you too joe - you hair sniffing pervert

...the only thing that protects the masses from this type of shit is a vaccine or the age old natural process of herd immunity.
Of course we all know the liberal-Karen-soccer-mom demographic is afraid of vaccinations because Ace Ventura and Playboy's Miss October '93 both claim that vaccines will make your kids autistic.

Americans are driving me out of my ever loving mind with this blind hero worship and insistence that President Josiah Bartlett might actually have a viable strategy for a productive domestic economic policy.
Fuck you all very much - kiss my ass - thank you and good night.


RANT MODE DEACTIVATED

Bahahahahaha....I want to be in that kind of "Rant Mode"...Beautiful..."hair sniffing pervert" Love it....Fuck Bow Tie Bill; I'd like to strangle that Ass Clown with his own nerdy tie.....:D

Thanks for the chuckle.....It was very much needed today.....

[Old Dog New Trick]

Pretty good rant Box. :lifter

I’ll add that the tearful dear leader of the WHO lamenting everyone for not wearing a mask needs to have his PhD revoked immediately.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Wearing Mask-A Sledgehammer to Health (https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/07/mark-sircus/wearing-masks-a-sledgehammer-to-health/)



Is there a simple device like the pulse oximeter to measure CO2 levels in your blood?

That’s a good read. Pretty much agree with everything he says.

As for testing Pco2 either a blood test (ABG) or ventilator with meters on the return tube.

[PedOncoDoc]

That’s a good read. Pretty much agree with everything he says.

As for testing Pco2 either a blood test (ABG) or ventilator with meters on the return tube.

Neither are readily available at home, the exception being possibility of the latter on a home ventilator (not sure if these have this capability) for someone with a long-term tracheostomy.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Neither are a good idea to do at home, the exception being possibility of the latter on a home ventilator (not sure if these have this capability) for someone with a long-term tracheostomy.

The longer this goes on people may be attempting ABG/VBG blood draws in the bathroom with sharp razor blades. :eek:

[doctom54]

I told you so.

Here's my prediction. Biden will beat Trump because Trump has failed to see he has become as divisive as HRC. Biden will have a running mate picked out for him by the RNC that will "finish" his term when he is deemed not mentally capable of completing it. That VP, will take the following election as well.

Bad as I hate to agree I think that is the most likely outcome.


Think of this, he selects Michelle Obama as running mate.
1 year after election he resigns due to health.
Michelle becomes president. Ruth Vader Ginsberg dies or resigns and Michelle appoints BHO to the supreme court.

[tom kelly]

Another HOAX put out by CDC/NIH to check the CONTROL Government has over people. REASON. The virus is 0.125 microns, SO at this size 100 million could fit on the head of a pin. The human eye can not detect particle size smaller than 40 microns. A Tea bag can filter particles from 90 microns & up (0.00004 inch is the size of 1 micron) 1/25000 of an inch. The human eye cannot detect particles below 40 microns. HEPA filters remove 99.97% of the airborne particles in the air that it filters. Personnel who work with this virus use LEVEL 4 protection. Some Questions I would like to ask the CDC, HIH, 1. This family of viruses first showed up in 2002 as SARS, than @ 2009 MERS... With all the money in grants given out why did the USA wait until 2020 when the pandemic was declared to start work on a vaccine; seems that a HUGE amount of $$$$ was spent on AIDS research & treatment for a small group of people that were infected because of their LIFESTYLE also Ebola another very small group of people concentrated in a remote section of Africa The Rife Valley. The U S Government built a giant research center for treatment at the University of Nebraska...WHY was this decision made & who made it and for what benefit to the Taxpaying citizens of the U S A.????ANSWERS Please.

[Paslode]

I told you so.

Here's my prediction. Biden will beat Trump because Trump has failed to see he has become as divisive as HRC. Biden will have a running mate picked out for him by the RNC that will "finish" his term when he is deemed not mentally capable of completing it. That VP, will take the following election as well.

Is Trump truly divisive or is that just the medias portrayal which has run 24/7 over the past 4 years ?

[Badger52]

Is Trump truly divisive or is that just the medias portrayal which has run 24/7 over the past 4 years ?Good point. I personally don't think he does divisiveness intentionally unless it also serves his brusque behavior for something else. What has aided this impression, and why the media fixates on him, is that the left has massively pulled the curtain back on their aims. They know it while they're doing it but can't help themselves. The media know it but can't help themselves. That has taken quite a few from the "let's hear them out" category to the "What? Moved the goal posts again Lucy? Fuck you - I'm DONE!" (I don't watch polls either, so...)

I don't see Moochelle as VP - she has some really good material-girl gigs going right now. But there might be a reason that interweb authors have been scrubbing Kamala Harris' wiki and social media stuff recently.

[Old Dog New Trick]

I told you so.

Here's my prediction. Biden will beat Trump because Trump has failed to see he has become as divisive as HRC. Biden will have a running mate picked out for him by the RNC that will "finish" his term when he is deemed not mentally capable of completing it. That VP, will take the following election as well.

I disagree. Trump may lose but it won’t be because of something he did or didn’t do but what (lies and propaganda) the MSM continues to put forward 24/7.

I listened to both of his Independence Day speeches and there was nothing “divisive” about them. He called a spade a spade, pulled no punches about supporting the police and called domestic terrorists and the violence destroying our country and cities what it is.

The problem on the left is they have turned a blind eye on their racist past and have mastered a progressive message of victimization to suit their immediate goals even if it destroys the country.

There isn’t any name of a female POC that will help Joe B. In fact most will damage him when it comes down to the wire.

Trump may lose but it will not be because of Trump.

ETA: by November the COVID-19 issue won’t be a Republican problem or a Democratic problem but a WHO/CDC/INH worldwide continuing problem. With the outbreaks and spikes in countries continuing to grow the world community is going to have face a simple truth...the scientists and medical “experts” blew it from the beginning. Even the exalted Dr. Fauci will be thrown under the bus by Democrats by November.

[Paslode]

Good point. I personally don't think he does divisiveness intentionally unless it also serves his brusque behavior for something else. What has aided this impression, and why the media fixates on him, is that the left has massively pulled the curtain back on their aims. They know it while they're doing it but can't help themselves. The media know it but can't help themselves. That has taken quite a few from the "let's hear them out" category to the "What? Moved the goal posts again Lucy? Fuck you - I'm DONE!" (I don't watch polls either, so...)

I don't see Moochelle as VP - she has some really good material-girl gigs going right now. But there might be a reason that interweb authors have been scrubbing Kamala Harris' wiki and social media stuff recently.


As I see it the majority of the divisive behavior has come from the left and the Rino's. It's actually been going on from the moment Trump announced his Candidacy and took a very rabid turn the moment he won the 2016 election. Kamela Harris is as toxic as HRC, maybe more. If she were to take the reigns from Joe, and follows her radical leanings there is a good chance things go way off the reservation more than they already are.

[PSM]

I don't see Trump losing without fraud. Massive fraud. Locally I'm hearing people who, while not Never-Tumpers, pe se, they didn't vote for him in '16. They are eager to vote for him this time. I went to the dental hygienist the other day. She never talks politics (and she's quite the talker!) but she said that she got in arguments with a couple of her anti-Trump clients for defending him.

The "everyone must vote by mail" movement is an effort to implement that "massive fraud" I fear. Voter fraud is, at best, attempted assignation and at worst and actual assignation of a candidate or office holder. How can it be seen as otherwise? The end result is exactly the same except there is no funeral. The criminal charge should be exactly the same, as well as the sentence.

[Trapper John]

RANT MODE ACTIVATED

Bill Nye the I'm not really a scientist guy needs to SHUT.THE.FUCK.UP. with his mask nonsense. Stick to engineering Bill - let Doctors teach everyone about medicine you silly fuck.

N95 masks DO NOT protect an uninfected public from an infected person that is wearing one. If you are healthy and wearing one to stay safe inpublic, you are doing it right...
...but you're an asshole because those should be left to the Health Care Industry so they can be used to protect the nurses and doctors from sick patients.

Standard Surgical masks do not protect an uninfected wearer from an infected public.
but if you are sick and wearing one to keep from spreading your pestilence, congratulations, you're doing it right...
...but you are also a fucking asshole for pulling a Fredo Cuomo and going out in public when you KNOW that you are sick.

Cloth masks made with all of the bullshit feel good fashion design don't really protect anyone from anything and more and more "professionals" are showing that a cloth mask most likely does more harm than good.
They are not enough to stop a virus..
They are just thick enough to retard the wearers ability to breath the way nature intended.
If you are wearing one - congratulations - you are an obedient subject that has proven your loyalty to the governing class.

Testing isn't a cure - and shouldn't drive the treatment. If you ain't sick - don't waste fucking resources on tests that aren't indicated. Many of the "experts" have already backpedaled to the point of stating that the early treatment habit of "they have COVID-19, ventilate, STAT" may very well have done more damage to patients than good. Every health care provider is taught not to treat lab results or machine readings...
TREAT.THE.FUCKING.PATIENT.

but here we are - uncle joe campaigning on a platform that corona testing saves lives and 'Bill Nye the I'm not really a scientist guy' teaching people that as long as you cant blow out a candle - your mask is saving lives.
fuck you Bill
fuck you and that stupid looking bow tie.
Fuck you right in your not really a scientist stupid looking bow tie wearing asshole.
fuck you too joe - you hair sniffing pervert

...the only thing that protects the masses from this type of shit is a vaccine or the age old natural process of herd immunity.
Of course we all know the liberal-Karen-soccer-mom demographic is afraid of vaccinations because Ace Ventura and Playboy's Miss October '93 both claim that vaccines will make your kids autistic.

Americans are driving me out of my ever loving mind with this blind hero worship and insistence that President Josiah Bartlett might actually have a viable strategy for a productive domestic economic policy.
Fuck you all very much - kiss my ass - thank you and good night.




RANT MODE DEACTIVATED

But, but whata 'bout Bill Gates? and of course there's Oh nooo! Mr Bill McRaven. I made my bed this morning, do I still need to wear a mask? And what is it with these Bills anyway? Maybe it's a Bill pandemic? Someone check on Bucki Bill please. :p

[Trapper John]

https://fee.org/articles/3-states-account-for-42-percent-of-all-covid-19-deaths-in-america-why/?fbclid=IwAR1Q1O7DzY9OuoLPqaQhDLprcbRVtmI3AMcFtcCB bJgNJGQDJbqGFhfI4Vk

In a recent article in The Atlantic, Thomas Chatterton Williams decried America’s handling of the coronavirus. The words “utter disaster” are used, and Williams, an expatriate, contrasts America’s response to that of France, where he currently lives.

“As Donald Trump’s America continues to shatter records for daily infections, France, like most other developed nations and even some undeveloped ones, seems to have beat back the virus,” Williams writes.

To be sure, the US response to the coronavirus was far from perfect (more on that later). But the article shows one of the challenges with this pandemic: even as more data is acquired, the picture doesn’t always get clearer.

In some ways, COVID-19 data are like a Rorschach blot from which writers, politicians, and experts can glean whatever conclusions they wish to find. Take Sweden, where daily COVID-19 deaths recently reached zero.

According to Newsweek editorial director Hank Gilman, Sweden’s “lighter touch” approach was a failure because seven times as many people died there than in neighboring Scandinavian countries such as Finland and Norway. He is not alone in the assessment.

On the other hand, Sweden suffered far fewer deaths per capita than several European neighbors that instituted strict lockdowns—including Belgium, Italy, Spain, and the United Kingdom—and has avoided some of the economic fallout other nations have endured. Unlike other countries, its currency is growing stronger.

Indeed, Sweden’s death rate is remarkably close to that of France, which Williams praised as a model in contrast to the “utter disaster” in the US. However, the US actually has a lower per capita death rate than both Sweden and France—at least for now. (While it’s true COVID cases are on the rise again in the US, deaths recently reached three-month lows.)

This raises questions about how we measure success in the age of COVID-19. While most attention is being paid to rising case numbers, death tolls would seem to be the most important metric. While US deaths per capita (401/1M) put the country among the ten highest in the world—ahead of France and Sweden, but just below the Netherlands—those numbers also don’t tell the entire story.

In his 1974 Nobel Prize speech, the economist F.A. Hayek warned against the temptation to use collective action with incomplete knowledge, saying such action would likely cause more harm than good.

“To act on the belief that we possess the knowledge and the power which enable us to shape the processes of society entirely to our liking, knowledge which in fact we do not possess, is likely to make us do much harm,” Hayek stated.
We don’t yet know how this pandemic or economic collapse will end, but some have predicted it shaping up to be a blunder of historic proportions.

“The first half of 2020 will go down in history as the largest nationwide public policy failure since the Great Depression,” the economic historian Phil Magness recently observed. “A part of that failure derives from the largest wide-scale suppression of economic and social liberties in most of our lifetimes, all executed to negligible effect at solving the problem it intended to target.”

If Magness is correct, the crisis, though tragic, may also offer a healthy dose of an elixir Hayek would say humans desperately need: humility [Excluding, of course, the 3 Bills]. :D

“The recognition of the insuperable limits to his knowledge ought indeed to teach the student of society a lesson of humility which should guard him against becoming an accomplice in men’s fatal striving to control society,” Hayek concluded in his address.

The lockdowns and the nursing home tragedies show just how destructive and fatal such striving to control society can be.

[Last hard class]

More good news on the treatment front:


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-india-biocon/indias-biocon-secures-approval-use-drug-on-coronavirus-patients-idUSKCN24C0K8



"The randomized control trial indicated that all the patients treated with Itolizumab responded positively and recovered."




LHC

[Old Dog New Trick]

This an interesting article only in that all the graphs intersect at the same point.

https://apple.news/AKChizU6SQB2WH2pF1tqhHQ

They all show the point where those infected people from New York/New Jersey went to the states who had remained flat during the initial spread of the virus.

The only graph that doesn’t follow what happened in New York/New Jersey and Washington state is the death rate is significantly lower do mostly in part that LTC facilities are better protected, a younger population was exposed and treatments are better known.

If I believed in conspiracies (which I usually don’t) and since these new infections are (supposedly) long after “Spring Break” parties ended and everyone went home without widespread infections, schools were closed and businesses shuttered nearly completely; and coincide with publicized relaxing of “Stay-At-Home” orders...one might lead credibility to theories that those escaping New York/New Jersey have purposely spread the virus far and wide against Republican states. Again, I just don’t believe in conspiracies that Democrats would stoop so low as to send sick volunteers out into the free world to drink in pubs, river raft in rivers, and find other social settings where younger people naturally congregate after being cooped up for eight weeks. You know like a beach!

Anyone that could believe or imagine something like that would have to believe the government made George Floyd, a violent life long criminal, in the commission of a crime, inject himself with high doses of Fentanyl and then tell the arresting police he was not under any circumstances getting in that police vehicle, and chaos would follow to the extent that it has. That’s all just wishful thinking, that these things are unrelated.

The good news (not reported by CNN and other MSM) is the US is testing nearly 700,000 people a day and while high the reported positive cases are less than 70,000 per day. At this rate that’s only 10% of the population and 90% are negative. It should also be noted that only people with symptoms or have been in long term or repeated contact with a known infected person are supported to be getting tested.

As always JMHO-YM(ask)MD

[Old Dog New Trick]

Follow up to purchase of pulse oximeters. Been using the ZacUrate Pro500 series the last few days while flying to and from work with face coverings. On the ground before boarding and after wearing either a neck gator or surgical mask for a period of time longer than 20-minutes my average SpO2 is 97% (without a mask in the comfort of my home I’m usually at 98% SpO2. Funny but my wife is about 99% and my son 100%.) So, back to my non-scientific study...in an commercial airplane at altitude for an hour or more my SpO2 is dropping to an average of 92%. I’ve hit as low as 88% with the neck gator and a low high of 93% with a surgical mask. Those readings stay fairly consistent until descending below 15,000’ where atmospheric O2 is being pumped back into the airplane, at which time my SpO2 is rising back to 95% on average. After landing and removing the mask for 10-minutes or so I’m back to 97%-98% again. So there is definitely a deficiency which over long periods of time is likely harmful. I’d really like to do ABGs in flight to see what the CO2 levels are but that’s not likely to happen in my environment.

Anyway, the other model I bought was slightly more expensive at $34 with a five star rating but seems to be no better or worse than the $29 Model with 4.5 stars.

Zacurate Pro Series 500DL... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PQ8WTC4?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Santamedical Generation 2... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000ORVXPA?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

With what I’ve heard from medical experts in the field, hypoxia (SpO2 <90% for a healthy person) is the silent devil sneaking up on you before your body starts to have rapidly deteriorating problems requiring hospitalization and O2 therapy.

For less than $35 this gadget is probably a life saver during this pandemic of respiratory failure.

[frostfire]

Follow up to purchase of pulse oximeters. Been using the ZacUrate Pro500 series the last few days while flying to and from work with face coverings. On the ground before boarding and after wearing either a neck gator or surgical mask for a period of time longer than 20-minutes my average SpO2 is 97% (without a mask in the comfort of my home I’m usually at 98% SpO2. Funny but my wife is about 99% and my son 100%.) So, back to my non-scientific study...in an commercial airplane at altitude for an hour or more my SpO2 is dropping to an average of 92%. I’ve hit as low as 88% with the neck gator and a low high of 93% with a surgical mask. Those readings stay fairly consistent until descending below 15,000’ where atmospheric O2 is being pumped back into the airplane, at which time my SpO2 is rising back to 95% on average. After landing and removing the mask for 10-minutes or so I’m back to 97%-98% again. So there is definitely a deficiency which over long periods of time is likely harmful. I’d really like to do ABGs in flight to see what the CO2 levels are but that’s not likely to happen in my environment.

Anyway, the other model I bought was slightly more expensive at $34 with a five star rating but seems to be no better or worse than the $29 Model with 4.5 stars.

Zacurate Pro Series 500DL... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PQ8WTC4?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Santamedical Generation 2... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000ORVXPA?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

With what I’ve heard from medical experts in the field, hypoxia (SpO2 <90% for a healthy person) is the silent devil sneaking up on you before your body starts to have rapidly deteriorating problems requiring hospitalization and O2 therapy.

For less than $35 this gadget is probably a life saver during this pandemic of respiratory failure.

Definitely won’t hurt to have them.
I had used them as reassurance tool for the healthy

Imhoo to hit under 90% with no respiratory symptoms whatsoever is unlikely.
For those who test positive at the mission, we do issue a pulse ox. They enter daily reading of o2 sat, temp, and symptoms. For some reason, the most common symptoms here are loss of taste and extreme fatigue. Two patient never had fever the entire time

[cbtengr]

Had breakfast this morning a bit North of Madison Wisconsin. It was not a huge eating joint sat maybe 75 diners at once. At least a third of the tables had signs on them that stated they were not to be used due to the virus. We were immediately set in a booth back to back with other diners and as folks came in the hostess would remove the do not sit here sign and seat them. It did not bother us in the least to be that near other diners. It is all about what one is comfortable with as far as we are concerned.

[SF_BHT]

Had breakfast this morning a bit North of Madison Wisconsin. It was not a huge eating joint sat maybe 75 diners at once. At least a third of the tables had signs on them that stated they were not to be used due to the virus. We were immediately set in a booth back to back with other diners and as folks came in the hostess would remove the do not sit here sign and seat them. It did not bother us in the least to be that near other diners. It is all about what one is comfortable with as far as we are concerned.

Saturday morning at 0615 I played grocery tag. There were probably only 20 people there and this one lady who had her mask hanging from her ear when you got on the isle with her she would look scared and turn and scurry in the other direction. Happened 5 or 6 times. It was funny. When it was time for checkout (self check only) she pot her mask on. I checked out beside her and she could not scan fast enough. It was comical. I told her if you slow down you will get out of here faster. She would not say a word. Some people are just scared of their own shadows.

[tonyz]

Interesting development.

Complete article at link below.

EXCLUSIVE: Chinese virologist accuses Beijing of coronavirus cover-up, flees Hong Kong: 'I know how they treat whistleblowers'

Fox News
By Barnini Chakraborty, Alex Diaz | Fox News

Li-Meng Yan told Fox News that she believes China knew about the coronavirus well before it claimed it did. She says her supervisors also ignored research she was doing that she believes could have saved lives.

EXCLUSIVE: Hong Kong scientist Dr. Li-Meng Yan was stepping into uncharted territory.

Hours before she boarded an April 28 Cathay Pacific flight to the United States, the respected doctor who specialized in virology and immunology at the Hong Kong School of Public Health had plotted her escape, packing her bag and sneaking past the censors and video cameras on campus.

She had her passport and her purse and was about to leave all of her loved ones behind. If she was caught, she knew she could be thrown in jail -- or, worse, rendered one of the "disappeared."

Yan told Fox News in an exclusive interview that she believes the Chinese government knew about the novel coronavirus well before it claimed it did. She says her supervisors, renowned as some of the top experts in the field, also ignored research she was doing at the onset of the pandemic that she believes could have saved lives.

She adds that they likely had an obligation to tell the world, given their status as a World Health Organization reference laboratory specializing in influenza viruses and pandemics, especially as the virus began spreading in the early days of 2020.

Yan, now in hiding, claims the government in the country where she was born is trying to shred her reputation and accuses government goons of choreographing a cyber-attack against her in hopes of keeping her quiet.

Yan believes her life is in danger. She fears she can never go back to her home and lives with the hard truth that she’ll likely never see her friends or family there again.

Still, she says, the risk is worth it.

"The reason I came to the U.S. is because I deliver the message of the truth of COVID," she told Fox News from an undisclosed location.

She added that if she tried to tell her story in China, she "will be disappeared and killed."

<snip>

https://www.foxnews.com/world/chinese-virologist-coronavirus-cover-up-flee-hong-kong-whistleblower

[tom kelly]

Well the "VIRUS" is here, there , and everywhere until herd immunity or a viable vaccine is developed and distributed to the world for injecting the population. THIS WAS A PREEMPTIVE STRIKE BY THE CCP. Now we now who & where the "Bad Guys" are & it's time to stop the BS Lying about what happened. WE ARE AT WAR. The Third Column in the U S A must be delt with first, The New World Order & The Deep State Swamp Dwellers around the DC Beltway and ALL THE DNC MEMBERS worldwide. The Grass Roots Right need to PURGE the enemies of the U S A and we need to do it NOW.

[Airbornelawyer]

More on the subject of non-Covid deaths:

https://www.studyfinds.org/u-s-death-rate-soaring-but-more-than-a-third-are-not-caused-by-covid-19/

“A third possibility, the one we’re quite concerned about, is indirect mortality — deaths caused by the response to the pandemic,” explains Woolf, the director emeritus of VCU’s Center on Society and Health. “People who never had the virus may have died from other causes because of the spillover effects of the pandemic, such as delayed medical care, economic hardship or emotional distress.”

[Old Dog New Trick]

More on the subject of non-Covid deaths:

https://www.studyfinds.org/u-s-death-rate-soaring-but-more-than-a-third-are-not-caused-by-covid-19/

Well, DUH!

A million children worldwide may starve to death because food chains are broken.

[GratefulCitizen]

This information raises some questions.
I'm not educated enough to answer them.

One question I'd like answered:
Why is this information being ignored?

https://adamaltmejd.se/covid/

[Airbornelawyer]

What exactly is the information you are questioning? It looks like a straightforward illustration of Farr's Law. The epidemic in Sweden essentially has come and gone. People may still be getting infected, as with any flu, but those most vulnerable have essentially already died.

I wish I could find a chart like this for the US as a whole or any state, but I can't. The CDC seemingly no longer reports the weekly deaths from all causes with year-over-year comparisons. Anyway, here is one for France comparing daily deaths in 2018, 2019 and 2020 from 1 March to 15 June. It shows the spike as the epidemic swept through the country, peaking at the end of March. It also shows that since the end of April, deaths are back to normal. Indeed, in some parts of France deaths are below normal, which supports the notion that Covid-19 brought forward many deaths, killing people in March and April who likely would have died in May or June or later this year from their other co-morbidities.

France was hit before the US, so it is further along the epidemic curve. I suspect if we could get reliable data from the US states hit first, notably New York, New Jersey and Connecticut, we might see a similar pattern. There is a chart here (https://nj.gov/health/chs/documents/2015-2020%20Deaths%20by%20Month%20and%20County%20of%20R esidence.pdf) for New Jersey from 2015-2020, but is only through May 2020.

[GratefulCitizen]

I wish I could find a chart like this for the US as a whole or any state, but I can't.

That's kind of the direction of my question.

What is wrong with showing information of this sort for the US?
Why not compare it with other nations which tried different responses?
Why not compare the information from various states which tried different responses?

[JJ_BPK]

I can not verify this site.
Has anyone gotten wind of the Israelies work?


Israel announces antibody that neutralizes coronavirus, even amongst infected. By Yucatan Times on July 10, 2020


JERUSALEM (Israel Institute for Biological Research) – Israel announces an antibody that neutralizes coronavirus, even amongst the infected.
The Israel Institute for Biological Research (IIBR) and the Israeli Ministry of Defense announced that the development phase of an antibody that would be effective in neutralizing SARS-Cov-2, known as the coronavirus, has been completed.

Through its Twitter account, the Israeli Ministry of Defense confirmed the development of what could become the first antidote to covid-19.


link: (https://www.theyucatantimes.com/2020/05/israel-announces-antibody-that-neutralizes-coronavirus-even-amongst-infected/?fbclid=IwAR0KUzRHrIWc05EjdFGaPj9DW5oQLNMC1W7VGcBW qaBFe6h69ymrg-zO5wY)




The Yucatan Times - Overview, News & Competitors
www.zoominfo.com

The-Yucatan-Times

Currently, The Yucatan Times is an online newspaper that targets the English-speaking community in the Yucatan Peninsula, the rest of Mexico, as well as ...

[tonyz]

JJ, the docs will have better insight than I - in the meantime here is a link to the institute and their press releases.

The Israel Institute for Biological research (IIBR)

https://iibr.gov.il/NewsRoom/Pages/news.aspx

[Badger52]

Interesting article from a Floridian Fox affiliate regarding what are turning out to be bogus positive test results. Whether from guidance that was FUBAR, or simply testing being done by a bunch of low-flying dolts who couldn't take over mess hall duties from the Pakistanis...

This is just one area. Are we to believe that this kluge isn't represented somewhere else in the country as well?
---------
ORLANDO, Fla. - After FOX 35 News noticed errors in the state's report on positivity rates, the Florida Department of Health said that some laboratories have not been reporting negative test result data to the state.

Countless labs have reported a 100 percent positivity rate, which means every single person tested was positive. Other labs had very high positivity rates. FOX 35 News found that testing sites like one local Centra Care reported that 83 people were tested and all tested positive. Then, NCF Diagnostics in Alachua reported 88 percent of tests were positive.

How could that be? FOX 35 News investigated these astronomical numbers, contacting every local location mentioned in the report.

The report showed that Orlando Health had a 98 percent positivity rate. However, when FOX 35 News contacted the hospital, they confirmed errors in the report. Orlando Health's positivity rate is only 9.4 percent, not 98 percent as in the report.

The report also showed that the Orlando Veteran’s Medical Center had a positivity rate of 76 percent. A spokesperson for the VA told FOX 35 News on Tuesday that this does not reflect their numbers and that the positivity rate for the center is actually 6 percent.

More at the jump here (https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fox-35-investigates-florida-department-of-health-says-some-labs-have-not-reported-negative-covid-19-results).

[JJ_BPK]

Interesting article from a Floridian Fox affiliate regarding what are turning out to be bogus positive test results. Whether from guidance that was FUBAR, or simply testing being done by a bunch of low-flying dolts who couldn't take over mess hall duties from the Pakistanis...

This is just one area. Are we to believe that this kluge isn't represented somewhere else in the country as well?
---------


Or NOT-45 SJW's that want to make bad numbers the new normal?? :mad:

[Badger52]

Or NOT-45 SJW's that want to make bad numbers the new normal?? :mad:Absolutely a possibility. Already known that an apocalyptic study done by a London institute used a single model extrapolated across the US. The model? NYFC.
:rolleyes:

[PSM]

OMG!

[Ret10Echo]

OMG!

That's a photo-shopped meme right?

[Box]

That's a photo-shopped meme right?

I'll take that question a step farther...
...are you curious - or joking


The Democratic Peoples Republic of American Idol has deteriorated to a point where it COULD be a real screen grab...
...you question is a legitimate one.

The only way to know for sure if the story is true, is to watch Good Morning Comrades with Jorge Snuffalupagus to see if they blame the spike in COVID based meth lab explosions on the POTUS wearing and/or not wearing his mask in public.

[Ret10Echo]

The only way to know for sure if the story is true, is to watch Good Morning Comrades with Jorge Snuffalupagus to see if they blame the spike in COVID based meth lab explosions on the POTUS wearing and/or not wearing his mask in public.

Yeaaaahhhh...... No

[Box]

Yeaaaahhhh...... No

I am so triggered by that photo...
is that gun violence resulting in rainbow blood?
do you hate free speech?
are you depicting an old analog TV because you are a technophobe?
do you still hate puppies and bunny rabbits?

so many questions

[Pete]

Interesting article - "The original article was published in the Swiss magazine Weltwoche (World Week) on June 10th. The author, Beda M Stadler is the former director of the Institute for Immunology at the University of Bern, a biologist and professor emeritus. Stadler is an important medical professional in Switzerland, he also likes to use provoking language, which should not deter you from the extremely important points he makes.

This article is about Switzerland and it does not suggest that the situation is exactly the same globally. I am advocating for local measures according to local situations. And I advocate for looking at real data rather than abstract models. I also suggest to read to the end, because Stadler makes crucial points about testing for Sars-CoV-2."

https://medium.com/@vernunftundrichtigkeit/coronavirus-why-everyone-was-wrong-fce6db5ba809

"This is not an accusation, but a ruthless taking stock [of the current situation]. I could slap myself, because I looked at Sars-CoV2- way too long with panic. I am also somewhat annoyed with many of my immunology colleagues who so far have left the discussion about Covid-19 to virologist and epidemiologist. I feel it is time to criticise some of the main and completely wrong public statements about this virus...."

[Old Dog New Trick]

Pete, I find myself in complete agreement with the above article.

Maybe wouldn’t call it a “cold” and also leads one to wonder if during the first round of SARS that we humans created and passed on to our newborn children an important immunity to SARS like coronaviruss. Something that also might indicate why those under 30 are also less likely to be immunodeficient and only suffer mild symptoms if any at all.

I hope more calmer heads prevail and stop all the panic. It’s time to get back to normal...whatever that is.

[Badger52]

Interesting article -Interesting doesn't begin to describe it - thank you very much for sharing that link. I'd be pleasantly whamboozled if anyone in the media took the relatively short time (> a presser soundbite) to present that. While seeming technically solid, it is - at the level he wrote it - quite understandable.
Eye opening.

[Airbornelawyer]

I don't know if I am just continuing to beat a dead horse here, but here is an update as of 15 July 2020 for the state case fatality rates from the 30 June 2020 version upthread. Numbers in yellow or red are the new 15 July CFRs.

You will see that, as noted in previous posts, the CFRs continue to decline in most states, in some cases significantly. The most obvious reason, and again I am repeating myself, is that the "spike" in cases being breathlessly reported in the media is mainly an artefact of increased testing. As the Swiss article above notes, though, the testing being done doesn't necessarily mean new infections; some of the infections are new, due to more public interactions, and some are just finding people who were already infected but were immune or asymptomatic, and had the residue of the virus in their systems. As there has not been a corresponding spike in hospitalizations or deaths, the CFRs have fallen because that's how ratios work.

It is the case, however, that the CFRs have not fallen, or have not fallen by very much, in the northeastern states hit first and hardest by the epidemic, notably the New England states, New York, New Jersey and Michigan, as well as Virginia and DC. The partisan in me might want to blame this on the poor response to the crisis by these mainly Democrat-run states, but I think another factor is simply that these states are further along the epidemic curve, and the virus has pretty much infected and killed most of whom it could. Essentially, they have reached their herd immunity threshold. So the growth in new cases and deaths are both low in absolute numbers, down 90-95% from the peak, and track with each other, so the CFR remains steady.

In the meantime, though, the mainstream media and their leftist political allies continue to salivate at the notion of a spike in the southern and western states, despite the evidence. Not only have hospitalizations and deaths not spiked as they hoped, but the falling CFRs make these states more comparable to the success stories the media have celebrated, like South Korea and Japan, and to a lesser extent Germany and Switzerland. South Korea especially was praised for strict quarantines, masking of the populace, and other measures of social control which most Americans generally find oppressive but which are beloved of a certain subset of Americans who believe they know better than you how to live your life.

So what is the CFR as of 15 July in South Korea, according to data from the WHO? It is 2.13%, higher than that of, among others, Texas, Florida, Arizona, Oklahoma, Alabama, North and South Carolina, Tennessee, and even California. Georgia, the state that even President Trump attacked for being one of the first to relax social distancing guidelines, and in which media sources like The Atlantic were predicting a deluge of dead bodies, has a death rate only slightly worse than South Korea, and better than Japan, Germany and Switzerland, and the Georgia rate is still falling.

Here, by the way, are the CFRs as of 15 July based on WHO data for selected countries. I generally avoided Third-World countries and others whose official data or data collection methods I would not consider reliable. I did include the PRC, even though their claimed numbers are highly questionable; even their likely low-ball number is worse than all but 8 U.S. states.

0.93% - Israel
1.05% - Australia
2.13% - South Korea
2.60% - India
2.66% - Czechia
2.82% - Norway
3.01% - United States of America (ex-NY/NJ/CT)
3.55% - Portugal
3.72% - Austria
3.86% - Brazil
3.98% - United States of America
4.13% - Poland
4.37% - Japan
4.54% - Germany
4.67% - Denmark
5.12% - Switzerland
5.43% - China (PRC)
6.80% - Ireland
7.30% - Sweden
11.07% - Spain
11.66% - Mexico
11.99% - Netherlands
14.38% - Italy
15.43% - United Kingdom
15.59% - Belgium

[Trapper John]

Interesting article - "The original article was published in the Swiss magazine Weltwoche (World Week) on June 10th. The author, Beda M Stadler is the former director of the Institute for Immunology at the University of Bern, a biologist and professor emeritus. Stadler is an important medical professional in Switzerland, he also likes to use provoking language, which should not deter you from the extremely important points he makes.

This article is about Switzerland and it does not suggest that the situation is exactly the same globally. I am advocating for local measures according to local situations. And I advocate for looking at real data rather than abstract models. I also suggest to read to the end, because Stadler makes crucial points about testing for Sars-CoV-2."

https://medium.com/@vernunftundrichtigkeit/coronavirus-why-everyone-was-wrong-fce6db5ba809

"This is not an accusation, but a ruthless taking stock [of the current situation]. I could slap myself, because I looked at Sars-CoV2- way too long with panic. I am also somewhat annoyed with many of my immunology colleagues who so far have left the discussion about Covid-19 to virologist and epidemiologist. I feel it is time to criticise some of the main and completely wrong public statements about this virus...."

Thank you, thank you for finding this! I must confess that I am a little embarrassed that the search engines that I routinely monitor didn't pick this up or either I'm getting sloppy in my old age! Like Stadler I too know Tony Fauci and hold him in high regard. As a lowly chemist/immunologist and medical researcher, I have deferred any criticism of my esteemed epidemiologist/virologist colleagues.

Stadler is exactly correct in his assessments. I will only take issue with his statement that SARS-COV2 will diminish in the summer months. That will depend on sociological factors such as social distancing interfering with viral transmission. Not a big deal though. That will promote development of herd immunity at a very low risk or cost.

But, but that won't be consistent with the desired political narrative - lock-down, lock-down, and do it now! Don't be a selfish boob! Think of the defenseless and helpless others!

Oh by the way, did I say THANK YOU Pete?:lifter

[Badger52]

Ran across a study here (https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577.full) done in Vietnam from 5 years ago that seems (I am not a SME) to get pretty deep into the efficacy of cloth masks v. surg masks v. N95 etc. Title is "A cluster randomised trial of cloth masks compared with medical masks in healthcare workers."

Those here with the appropriate training in these disciplines may want to weigh in. Conditions under consideration at the time seem to consider MERS, Ebola, earlier SARS variants..

Interestingly, in light of the current Covid-19 situation (SARS Part Deux) they wrote a response that can be found here (https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577.responses#covid-19-shortages-of-masks-and-the-use-of-cloth-masks-as-a-last-resort), done as a result of being bombarded with email questions, and they included their disclaimer that they were the authors of the original study.

Perhaps those here with the appropriate background will find it interesting or be able to translate beyond the "1, 2, 3, many" level I might understand or assess whether they consider that a valid study.

:munchin

[Airbornelawyer]

OK, now we have something from the CDC for the US. The attached graph is the weekly number of deaths, from all causes, from January 1, 2017 to the week ending July 4, 2020. With the caveat that data for recent weeks may be incomplete, the trendline is pretty clear. Also worth noting is the spike for the 2017-18 flu season.

[Old Dog New Trick]

July looks pretty normal doesn’t it?

Just imagine if the Governor’s for NY, NJ, WA, and CT hadn’t sent all those Covid-19 patients back to their LTC clinics to kill everyone? I am so tired of reading reports where states (US) and counties like Italy and Spain and now Brazil could have done more to protect an aging population.

Sweden, Germany and the Netherlands may still have some explaining to do but France has also lost the battle with regard to controlling the disease.

Wish the media would report facts instead of “will this hurt Trump? yes...run with it!”

I’m also tired of Dr. Fauci, he’s flip flopped more than Mitt Romney on whether he’s a Republican or a Democrat in waiting. Dr Fauci seeks the limelight of a camera and a microphone to walk back everything he’s once said.

The whole “mask thing” is a sham and it costing people their lives.

[Razor]

If cloth masks are so effective, why is it that whenever I go to the VA or local hospitals around here they make you leave your cloth mask in the car and give you a coated paper surgical mask to wear inside their facility?

[Old Dog New Trick]

If cloth masks are so effective, why is it that whenever I go to the VA or local hospitals around here they make you leave your cloth mask in the car and give you a coated paper surgical mask to wear inside their facility?

Which is only good for about 20-minutes because breathing warm moist air destroys it in that time and should be destroyed. Ask a doctor why they have them replaced during a surgical procedure every 20-minutes?

Your cloth mask is basically worthless for protection.

If you were a virus and a nasal passage would you prefer a continuous warm moist environment or a continuous exchange of fresh dry air?

[PSM]

It's odd that during this, the worse plague since the Black Plague, we don't have to dispose of masks or gloves in biohazard waste containers or burn them.

[Kusya123]

I agree with you 100%. How much of this material already floats in the sea and no one thinks that masks / gloves need to be ironed!

[Pete]

I agree with you 100%. How much of this material already floats in the sea and no one thinks that masks / gloves need to be ironed!

Kusya, your first post is in the wrong place.

Comply with the board rules or your visit here will be short.

[PSM]

As for the masks, many states, perhaps most, have laws against protesting while wearing a mask. This was in response to KKK parades and rallies in the past. But now that Antifa and BLM are the ones causing problems, masks are mandatory.

[bblhead672]

OK, now we have something from the CDC for the US. The attached graph is the weekly number of deaths, from all causes, from January 1, 2017 to the week ending July 4, 2020. With the caveat that data for recent weeks may be incomplete, the trendline is pretty clear. Also worth noting is the spike for the 2017-18 flu season.

Looks like if we took away the excess deaths caused by the actions of dimocrap governors the graph would be fairly normal.

Then again...it's hard to trust the CDC's numbers since they've obfuscated data so much.

[Gypsy]

So...if you are on Federal property you don't need to mask up? Can't get it/spread it? More do as I say, not as I do. :rolleyes:

"The order does not apply to “any employees of the federal government while they are on duty.” That description would appear to exclude President Donald Trump and members of Congress from the mask requirement while working.

D.C. officials said the mask requirement can’t be enforced on federal property."



https://time.com/5870298/dc-mayor-mandatory-face-mask-covid-19/

[SF_BHT]

So...if you are on Federal property you don't need to mask up? Can't get it/spread it? More do as I say, not as I do. :rolleyes:

"The order does not apply to “any employees of the federal government while they are on duty.” That description would appear to exclude President Donald Trump and members of Congress from the mask requirement while working.

D.C. officials said the mask requirement can’t be enforced on federal property."



https://time.com/5870298/dc-mayor-mandatory-face-mask-covid-19/

What you did not get the memo?:rolleyes:

[Gypsy]

What you did not get the memo?:rolleyes:

They have me on the PNG list.

[Badger52]

They have me on the PNG list.Well, good. Probably means you've done something right in the world.

[Gypsy]

Well, good. Probably means you've done something right in the world.

:D

[Gypsy]

So I literally had a doctor try to bully me into getting swabbed for china virus today.

Past few days felt like I had a sinus infection (mild symptoms: sinus headache, stuffy nose and my left ear feels blocked) Today I decided to go into the convenient care office to see what's what.

Dr walks in after 45 minutes (no other cars in the lot, was he at lunch?), so what's going on? I explain my symptoms. How often do you get these? I don't know maybe once a year. Why did you take Zyrtec? (are you kidding me right now?) Because I have a sinus headache why else would I take it? Ma'am am just trying to diagnose you. Ok sure. How long have you had an earache? I don't have one, I said it was kind of plugged up.

Looks in my ear, no wax build up, no fluid but says it is a bit red and inflamed.

Wait for it...here it comes...I shit you not: "Well I think we should swab you for covid. We are seeing these symptoms in positive patients." Really?

So I say thanks but no thank you. "Well you could have it and be infecting everyone you come into contact with." Yeah, well you're not going to guilt or bully me into helping you make me a statistic. Just give me the med list.

He comes back and sits in his little chair and ROLLS OVER TO WITHIN 2 FEET OF ME and starts going over the instructions. (steriod ear drop for the inflammation which is fine and flonase, which I will not use)

So doc if you think I have the virus shouldn't we be 6ft apart? Crickets. I took the paperwork and he again said well I really think you should get swabbed. Yeah I get that but no.

On top of it all he was the rudest SOB I've had the displeasure of interacting with. Obvious God complex. :rolleyes:

[SF_BHT]

So I literally had a doctor try to bully me into getting swabbed for china virus today.

Past few days felt like I had a sinus infection (mild symptoms: sinus headache, stuffy nose and my left ear feels blocked) Today I decided to go into the convenient care office to see what's what.

Dr walks in after 45 minutes (no other cars in the lot, was he at lunch?), so what's going on? I explain my symptoms. How often do you get these? I don't know maybe once a year. Why did you take Zyrtec? (are you kidding me right now?) Because I have a sinus headache why else would I take it? Ma'am am just trying to diagnose you. Ok sure. How long have you had an earache? I don't have one, I said it was kind of plugged up.

Looks in my ear, no wax build up, no fluid but says it is a bit red and inflamed.

Wait for it...here it comes...I shit you not: "Well I think we should swab you for covid. We are seeing these symptoms in positive patients." Really?

So I say thanks but no thank you. "Well you could have it and be infecting everyone you come into contact with." Yeah, well you're not going to guilt or bully me into helping you make me a statistic. Just give me the med list.

He comes back and sits in his little chair and ROLLS OVER TO WITHIN 2 FEET OF ME and starts going over the instructions. (steriod ear drop for the inflammation which is fine and flonase, which I will not use)

So doc if you think I have the virus shouldn't we be 6ft apart? Crickets. I took the paperwork and he again said well I really think you should get swabbed. Yeah I get that but no.

On top of it all he was the rudest SOB I've had the displeasure of interacting with. Obvious God complex. :rolleyes:

Well at least you got inside the clinic. I went to one with sore throat and they would not let me in the door. Go to an ER..... I hate the cowards in the medical profession tha I have had to use since January.

[Gypsy]

Well at least you got inside the clinic. I went to one with sore throat and they would not let me in the door. Go to an ER..... I hate the cowards in the medical profession tha I have had to use since January.

That is absolutely ridiculous and unsat.

I had to call ahead and make an appointment, at first they wanted to "telephone" but I said nope.

[PSM]

I went to my cardiologist last month and no one except the guy doing the echo had a mask on, including me. Of course, he was pretty much on top of me for the 20 minutes it took. (I don't have a heart problem, it's an annual thing that started when I had to have general anesthesia for two surgeries not disease related.) I haven't worn one yet. I did have a virtual physical a couple of weeks ago. As my son said, "So much for being a 'physical'".

Cochise Co. has had 14 deaths in 6 months with less than 14,000 cases (those tested) so .1%. And our hospitals serve Naco and Agua Prieta, Mexico.

[Little Fish]

Think global.
Think logistics
Think science
Think truth
Act like a soldier

[JJ_BPK]

I went to my cardiologist last month and no one except the guy doing the echo had a mask on, including me.

I have had two Doc appointments, GP & Dermatologist, same building, NOVA.

Everyone was masked.

The DR office was only allowing two appointments an hr.

The Dema took it higher, he split his 2@hr appointments up in two separate offices on different floors.

:munchin


Can be converted to one of these units:

12,614,400 seconds
210,240 minutes
3504 hours
146 days
20 weeks and 6 days
39.89% of 2020

:(

[tom kelly]

HIH has spent a long time (1980 -2020) looking, investigating, researching a cure for AIDS; WHY is this when such a very small % of the people at risk are engaging in unsafe sexual behavior which is the primary cause of spreading the disease. The SARS virus first came to be noticed in 2002 when in emerged from China. Another viral disease Ebola comes from the Riff Valley in Africa and is not a major threat to the people who do NOT go to the region in Africa to be exposed to this virus, But, the CDC and NIH spent millions of $ for a research and treatment facility at the University of Nebraska, WHY ? Look at the leadership at NIH and CDC; Is it adequately staffed and funded to safeguard the citizens that pay for it? MSM is always crying about the "MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX", may-be the MSM should now look into the HHS industry.

[Badger52]

HIH has spent a long time (1980 -2020) looking, investigating, researching a cure for AIDS; WHY is this when such a very small % of the people at risk are engaging in unsafe sexual behavior which is the primary cause of spreading the disease. The SARS virus first came to be noticed in 2002 when in emerged from China. Another viral disease Ebola comes from the Riff Valley in Africa and is not a major threat to the people who do NOT go to the region in Africa to be exposed to this virus, But, the CDC and NIH spent millions of $ for a research and treatment facility at the University of Nebraska, WHY ? Look at the leadership at NIH and CDC; Is it adequately staffed and funded to safeguard the citizens that pay for it? MSM is always crying about the "MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX", may-be the MSM should now look into the HHS industry.CDC continues to get in the billions per year to study a variety of societal ills, as well as those diseases which - while not really prevalent and relative to OUR security - "appear" to afflict traditional underdogs. They are very good at marketing and so they get to look, and politicians who vote for their appropriations get to look, extremely virtuous.

[Badger52]

From Breitbart...

American doctors are holding a “White Coat Summit” on Capitol Hill Monday to address what they call “a massive disinformation campaign” surrounding the Chinese coronavirus to which “American life has fallen casualty.”

“If Americans continue to let so-called experts and media personalities make their decisions, the great American experiment of a Constitutional Republic with Representative Democracy, will cease,” reads the event’s information page.

The purpose of the two day summit is to allow “frontline doctors [the ability to] talk directly to the American people.” Topics to be discussed include the reopening of America’s schools, “medical cancel culture,” and the public policy.

Agenda in the story at the link here (https://www.breitbart.com/health/2020/07/27/watch-live-frontline-physicians-aim-to-dispel-massive-covid-19-disinformation-campaign/).

The Live Feed on the video channel which shall not be named is:

https://www.xxxxxxx.com/watch?v=cKbQbcInHnA&feature=emb_title

I don't know if cross-hairs are settling on sacred cows, but sounds like that's part of the intent.
:munchin

[Box]

good lord - panic whores are going to need some serious peaceful protesting to keep those doctors from delivering truthful comments about the wuhan chinese corona bat virus

[tom kelly]

But wait a minute, Did the politico's leave D C for vacation again ? I guess there was nothing pressing in congress to keep them working in D C, Congress thinks it is Trumps fault that the country is slipping into anarchy. The Radical Democrats want Trump to fail, the economy to collapse and for the people to vote D in November. I wonder if the DNC & The Deep State (The Beltway Bureaucrats) have an Insurance Policy ?

[Box]

American doctors are holding a “White Coat Summit (https://nonperele.com/watch-live-frontline-physicians-aim-to-dispel-massive-covid-19-disinformation-campaign/)” on Capitol Hill Monday

So...
The American Heart Association has even weighed in on safety of using Hydroxywhatever drugs...
Many doctors are using it for COVID treatment - many have been prescribing it for their family and friends.
Many are NOT prescribing it for main stream patients because they are afraid of administrative repercussions that might cost them their jobs.
Quite a few of these doctors have lambasted the politicization of COVID-19 - deaf ears and all that jazz.


You wont hear that getting briefed on the 6 O'clock anti-Trump briefings. The covid fear mongers should be burned at the stake like witches.

[GratefulCitizen]

Doing a search on the correlation between obesity and covid hospitalizations yields some interesting results.
Don't hear anything about this from the media.

[Box]

Doing a search on the correlation between obesity and covid hospitalizations yields some interesting results.
Don't hear anything about this from the media.

How dare you fat shame...

[Badger52]

So...
The American Heart Association has even weighed in on safety of using Hydroxywhatever drugs...
Many doctors are using it for COVID treatment - many have been prescribing it for their family and friends.
Many are NOT prescribing it for main stream patients because they are afraid of administrative repercussions that might cost them their jobs.
Quite a few of these doctors have lambasted the politicization of COVID-19 - deaf ears and all that jazz.


You wont hear that getting briefed on the 6 O'clock anti-Trump briefings. The covid fear mongers should be burned at the stake like witches.Well, that didn't take long. Apparently the Big Tech censors share your concerns (https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/07/27/facebook-censors-viral-video-of-doctors-capitol-hill-coronavirus-press-conference/) over "misinformation" and have decided that warning about misinformation = misinformation.
This is my shocked face. :rolleyes:

[7624U]

How dare you fat shame...
Tear down the skinny statues NOW! They don't represent America in this day and age.

[rsdengler]

Tear down the skinny statues NOW! They don't represent America in this day and age.

Lol are there any "skinny statues"? .....A box of Twinkies a day and some disgusting junk food make obesity a national epidemic in the US.....No wonder in the age of quarantine overeating is the norm. Not me, I've always stayed away from that shit. Glad to do double workouts in my basement gym. I'm pumped....Fat Shaming...Hahahahahaha....

[Box]

...into the memory hole

[Badger52]

...into the memory holeSeems someone resurrected it again (for now) and there is a 3+ hr portion of that streamed yesterday located at:

https://www.XXXXXXX.com/watch?v=cKbQbcInHnA

[Surf n Turf]

This looks as if someone is trying to “hoodwink” the American public into getting a COVID vaccine that they are already suspicious of, and have no basis of understanding what the vaccine will do, what are the side effects, how was it tested, and what happens if it ends up not working, and actually harming the population.

It looks like they are trying to use “embarrassment, anger, ignorance, and lack of bravery” as tools to persuade, cajole, and threaten people into compliance.

SnT

Yale is conducting a study to examine how fear and coercion can be used to psychologically manipulate people into accepting a COVID vaccine.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/3870614/posts?page=1

Brief Summary:
This study tests different messages about vaccinating against COVID-19 once the vaccine becomes available. Participants are randomized to 1 of 12 arms, with one control arm and one baseline arm. We will compare the reported willingness to get a COVID-19 vaccine at 3 and 6 months of it becoming available between the 10 intervention arms to the 2 control arms.

Study participants are recruited online by Lucid, which matches census based sampling in online recruitment.
Sponsor:
Yale University
Information provided by (Responsible Party):
Yale University

Other: Guilt message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this message. The message is about the danger that COVID-19 presents to the health of one’s family and community. The best way to protect them is by getting vaccinated and society must work together to get enough people vaccinated. Then it asks the participant to imagine the guilt they will feel if they don’t get vaccinated and spread the disease.

1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this message. The message is about the danger that COVID-19 presents to the health of one’s family and community. The best way to protect them is by getting vaccinated and by working together to make sure that enough people get vaccinated. Then it asks the participant to imagine the embarrassment they will feel if they don’t get vaccinated and spread the disease.

Other: Anger message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this message. The message is about the danger that COVID-19 presents to the health of one’s family and community. The best way to protect them is by getting vaccinated and by working together to make sure that enough people get vaccinated. Then it asks the participant to imagine the anger they will feel if they don’t get vaccinated and spread the disease

Other: Trust in science message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this message about how getting vaccinated against COVID-19 is the most effective way of protecting one’s community. Vaccination is backed by science. If one doesn’t get vaccinated that means that one doesn’t understand how infections are spread or who ignores science.

Other: Not bravery message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this message which describes how firefighters, doctors, and front line medical workers are brave. Those who choose not to get vaccinated against COVID-19 are not brave.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04460703?term=Vaccine&cond=Covid19&cntry=US&draw=2

[Badger52]

It looks like they are trying to use “embarrassment, anger, ignorance, and lack of bravery” as tools to persuade, cajole, and threaten people into compliance.Gee, I read through that & thought I was in Communist China in a public square with a placard on my chest.

[Trapper John]

Just for posterity's sake:

I find it interesting that so many people forget what actually happened mainly because of the inaccurate reporting of an event.

Next time someone tries to tell you Trump was slow in responding to the corona vrus pandemic, own them with these facts:

In January 2020. After Trump declared a “humanitarian and security crisis" during a primetime Oval Office address, Sen. Chuck Schumer, speaking beside House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, said Trump was working to “manufacture a crisis, stoke fear and divert attention from the turmoil in his administration."

Party leader Tom Perez also called it “manufactured.”

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., described it as a "'crisis' that doesn't exist."

Sen. Elizabeth Warren tweeted at the time that "we're not falling" for the "fake crisis."

Jan 14 - the WHO (World Health Organization) sent out a tweet declaring that there is no evidence of human-to-human transmission of the COVID-19 virus.

Jan 24 - Dr. Anthony Fauci National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) Director said - “ Covid 19 It isn't something the American public needs to worry about or be frightened about, because we have ways of preparing and screening. It's a very, very low risk to the United States, but it's something that we as public health officials need to take very seriously,"

On January 29, 2020 Joe Biden in a speech in Iowa said that Trump's idea of restricting travel from China was "Xenophobic".

January 30, WHO calls corona virus a healthcare emergency.

February 2 - New York City Health Commissioner Dr. Oxiris Barbot, “The risk to New Yorkers for Coronavirus is low and our preparedness as a city is very high.

There is no reason not to take the subway, not to take the bus, not to go out to your favorite restaurant, and certainly not to miss the parade next Sunday. I’m going to be there.”

February 24, 2020 Nancy Pelosi says from San Francisco's China Town to come visit, it is safe and "there are no Coronavirus concerns".

Then SF became one of the epicenters of the disease.

Bill DiBlasio 03/2/20 “ I’m encouraging New Yorkers to go on with your lives. Get out on the town despite Coronavirus.”

On March 9, 2020 Bernie Sanders said he would NOT, I repeat he said he would NOT shut down travel.

March 20, MSNBC's Rachel Maddow (as well as NY Times) bash Trump for talking about Hydroxy Cloroquin calling it a "fairy tale" and giving people false hope. Now it is being sought after to fight the disease and is being tested as helping patients recover faster.

January 24 2020, Joe Scarborough and wife Mika had a segment where they said "no Americans need to be concerned about COVID-19 and should be more concerned about the common flu.

March 30, 2020 Morning Joe anchors say "everyone saw this coming in early January.

[Old Dog New Trick]

As you say...”Finest Kind!”

All these things need to a campaign commercial until Election Day.

I’m going to post something in one of the BLM threads that needs to be seen as well.

[JJ_BPK]

Just for posterity's sake:



stolen and posted to fb, Thanks TJ

[Badger52]

stolen and posted to fb, Thanks TJLet's see how long it stays up.
:cool:

[Box]

There are no more truths in America - only talking points

[Last hard class]

Are you guys talking about the Wuhan virus or illegal immigration?



LHC

[Trapper John]

There are no more truths in America - only talking points

Finest kind.

Stealing that line! Simple truths really do communicate a lot.

[Box]

Are you guys talking about the Wuhan virus or illegal immigration?LHC


I dont think there is a difference anymore.
I suppose we could call the Chinese Coronavirus an 'undocumented' communicable disease...
...it certainly is possible to state that it got here by circumventing standard procedures.

It has also taken a financial toll on our nation and further divided us along deeper more emotional partisan lines.

Soooo.... I agree, are we talking about immigration or a Chinese virus?

[Old Dog New Trick]

Here we are, six months into the pandemic. Forget what Johns Hopkins University is selling, forget what “model” the University of Washington is creating on a computer algorithm based on totally inaccurate input (remember garbage in garbage out) here are some raw numbers that aren’t really based on anything realistic or accurate because we just don’t know. And forget who the WHO is because they have already washed their hands, changed their minds on masks and moved on from their catastrophic failure.

We don’t know how many people died as a direct result of SARS-CoV-2 because the doctors, hospitals and pathologist never bothered to test those who died. They just said everyone died of COVID because well, they got money to say that - literally.

We don’t actually know how many people tested positive even though they never had a single symptom of the virus only that testing was widely available and the faster ‘rapid’ testing gave near immediate results to a 2-week vacation at home - with or without pay - although $600/mo plus unemployment was more than some people made before COVID and those that got positive results went on with their lives anyway.

Anyway let’s look at the latest numbers.

5,000,000 of 330,000,000 is 1.52% infected US population.
160,000 of 330,000,000 is 0.05% total number of deaths against US population and that includes nearly everyone who died, even if they died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound at home and weren’t tested for the virus. (Okay that last part is mine, but I’m not sure I can take credit for it.)

If we do take Johns Hopkins latest info. 725,000 of 6.5 billion people it looks even more like a bad flu season with 0.01% deaths, and 16,511,000 infected worldwide is 0.3%; slightly higher than the US but far less than even 1% total worldwide population.

Maybe my math is off, I was never very good at that stuff anyway unless I was measuring the dose of epinephrine in milligrams per milliliter per kilogram of weight in the heat of the moment because you were in cardiac arrest. Dunno!

ETA: fixes some things but, who else besides Gov De Wine (OH) got tested three times with negative results after having one positive test? Who does that?

[Airbornelawyer]

I posted this back in April:

The Asian Flu (H2N2) pandemic of 1957-58 killed an estimated 116,000 people in the USA. The US population was 172 million in 1957 and 175 million in 1958, so that would be equivalent to about 219,000 deaths today, based on a U.S. population of 328 million.

The 1968 (H3N2) pandemic killed approximately 100,000. Like COVID-19, many, if not most of the deaths were among people older than 65, so it is hard to tell how many were excess deaths. The year 1968 is when the US population passed 200 million, so adjusting for population that would be equivalent to about 164,000 deaths today.

So we are just approaching the population-adjusted toll of the 1968 pandemic and are still far from the toll of the 1957-58 pandemic, neither of which shut down society. And that does not account for the other factors in the current death toll, such as how many deaths were not really caused by the virus but were counted as such, as noted above by ODNT, and how many unnecessary deaths have been caused by the very response the government has taken, including the deaths in nursing homes, deaths by suicide due to lost livelihoods, and deaths by other causes due to missed medical care.

[Badger52]

I posted this back in April:



So we are just approaching the population-adjusted toll of the 1968 pandemic and are still far from the toll of the 1957-58 pandemic, neither of which shut down society. And that does not account for the other factors in the current death toll, such as how many deaths were not really caused by the virus but were counted as such, as noted above by ODNT, and how many unnecessary deaths have been caused by the very response the government has taken, including the deaths in nursing homes, deaths by suicide due to lost livelihoods, and deaths by other causes due to missed medical care....or inappropriate ventilator use.

Your posting though, coupled with your previous in April, is an eye-opener, considering that thing I highlighted. I've said it before; the virus happens to some people, the response has been something that is perpetrated nearly everyone.

[Last hard class]

I'm not arguing with the numbers. But I don't see where you guys have considered all the social fricking distancing and such when you do your comparisons. In other words, do you believe the infections would be the same if we were not social distancing? Nobody used to give a spit if there was a bad flu season. Take some robitussin and its off to work, vacation ect... .



LHC

[tom kelly]

The China virus is getting hype from MSM...The Daily Death Toll from Covid-19 is pick a number whose total includes deaths from heart disease, cancer, diabetes, How if any autopsies are used to prove cause of death? Why are the Covid 19 reported deaths so high? is there an economic benefit to hospitals to put Covid 19 on death certificates ? Did anyone die from the seasonal flu ? November 4th this Sars-COV-2 virus will be out of the 24 hour news cycle. It may even disappear. Wait & See.

[Ret10Echo]

I'm not arguing with the numbers. But I don't see where you guys have considered all the social fricking distancing and such when you do your comparisons. In other words, do you believe the infections would be the same if we were not social distancing? Nobody used to give a spit if there was a bad flu season. Take some robitussin and its off to work, vacation ect... .



LHC

I am not a medical professional....nor am I a statistical analyst...

My take here is that the social distancing and "wear a mask" is akin to "Stranger Danger" for children.

Family units are infected en-mass due to one member being exposed.

All "positive" numbers do not equal hospitalization. Hell, they don't even mean you have any symptoms

So imagine a normal flu season where mass numbers of people are subjected to a PSYOP campaign and have themselves tested out of fear and panic because some pet dander in their house made them sneeze.

How many people with the flu or common cold would be POSITIVE in this scenario?

On a bad flu season, I'd say the technical term is "one metric ass-load"... but it's a "normal" season so nobody give a rats' ass.

The current state of "Orange man bad" and politicians becoming crazed over the power makes it really hard to say what is real and what is made up.

As has been noted...there have been far more impactful infections in our history...but those occurred before the 24 hour news cycle and the hyper sensitivity of our society.

My personal take has been that outside of a 400 meter zone around my house I giveashit.

Stay safe.....

[Pete]

I'm not arguing with the numbers. But I don't see where you guys have considered all the social fricking distancing and such when you do your comparisons. In other words, do you believe the infections would be the same if we were not social distancing? ......

As I've said since this all started. I've been pretty much able to go and do what I did before this all started. For the last 6 weeks or so I've been eating out in the same places I did before this all started.

Same check out folks are working the registers at Food Lion. Wife continues to try and set records for the numbers of stores she hit in a day.

Pretty much this "social distancing" is all show with very little go.

[Old Dog New Trick]

I'm not arguing with the numbers. But I don't see where you guys have considered all the social fricking distancing and such when you do your comparisons. In other words, do you believe the infections would be the same if we were not social distancing? Nobody used to give a spit if there was a bad flu season. Take some robitussin and its off to work, vacation ect... .



LHC

This is JMOO. This virus has proven to be very transmissible (surface touch and airborne) and appears that we humans have very little to no natural immunity to it. The elderly population and those with severe or untreated health conditions (*) appear to be very susceptible to the virus raging through their bodies (cytokine release (that’s a protein we all have in our blood) response to our immune system or “cytokine storm”) which causes an unmitigated inflammatory response system wide.

* the list of underlying co-morbidities I believe in order are:
1) Moderate to severe obesity.
2) Heart and vascular issues - hypertension, blood clotting and blockages.
3) Diabetes (More likely than not - untreated diabetes.)
4) Existing compromises in pulmonary function - pneumonia, COPD, emphysema, etc.
5) Other underlying health issues that may be affected from inflammation, blood clotting or severe pyretic conditions or defects.

The good news appears to be that this virus like all other coronaviruses, influenza and the “common” cold are not the super killer we are being led to believe. Yes, all of those viruses can kill. Some more so than others and affect different ages with different results. We haven’t in 50+ years bothered to make a vaccine against coronaviruses and we haven’t found a vaccine for the cold. The A or B vaccine for influenza is a constant guessing game and only a small percentage of the population even gets it yearly. BTW it only helps because you have antigens and antibodies to resist it, you may still get the flu and it could still kill.

I think and this is just a hunch, our kids (those under 20) have developed through us or naturally a small level of immunity from recent exposure to SARS and MERS and may already have been born with antigen/antibodies to resist infection and spread.

Now to answer your question, I really don’t know. My hunch is...I think that what I wear as a requirement for work and meeting local business requirements (a neck gator) and 80+% of the population are wearing as a face covering (homemade cloth masks, bandannas or store bought painters masks) are 100% worthless. Even those who wear and change often a three layer surgical mask are only about 30% protected from getting and 50% less likely to spread the virus through coughing or sneezing. Even a properly worn N95 mask is not rated to .125micron so yes the virus particles can pass right through and a valved mask might as well not be there if you are the infected person coughing and breathing through the hole on the side of the mask.

Social distancing is a made up joke! (Even the scientific community laughed not to long ago, about the same time they told us the truth about masks.) Although I am beginning to appreciate not being crunched into a space or line anymore. Two strangers in an elevator seems to be one to many.

I think and again JMO. The scientific community at large and many many doctors (they are all liberal, some are just more liberal than others and only a few are outspoken but shutdown by the media - especially if they mention Hydroxychloroquine) have let us down. They were given unmitigated power to run an experiment that has failed worse than the effects of the virus. The “band-aid” has been a hodgepodge of confusion and outright lies about masks and social distancing to help “flatten the curve” or control the virus.

Sweden was not the answer (but maybe time will tell), yet neither was Japan (mask wearing capital of the world), and certainly not the hugging kissing Italians and French, or the let’s get naked together Germans. The rest of SE Asia seems to have found something the world might want to look at further next time. They shut the doors and closed their points of entry and screened EVERYONE coming in, but they kept their economies running best they could.

Again all JMOO. I’m not a doctor although I played one for 10-years and slept in a Holiday Inn Express once or twice.

Dr. Fauchi will go down in the history books as the little boy who cried wolf! And will very likely be the scapegoat for when and if we ever resurrect our economy and country from the death spiral it’s in.

JMHO-YMMV