Shootings in Paris

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Guymullins

If migrants find living in their own countries unbearable, they should be encouraged to return to their own countries to make the changes there in order to make living there bearable again.
Some would call it tough love, but no constructive purpose is gained by allowing the migrants to make their new host countries as unbearable as those that they left in the first place.

Hear, hear!

And they can have a gun to help with changing that country, just as soon as they land and get off the planes back there.

I wonder if the Frogs have a few guillotines that could be put back into service?

TR

[frostfire]

Originally Posted by Trapper John

It is very, very simple; it is binary; it is ideological; it is good vs evil. No middle ground! I for one stand with President Hollande in absolute solidarity - it is time for a pitiless war against Islam until such time that Islam capitulates, unconditionally surrenders, reforms itself or is wiped from existence.

Despite agreeing with many points in the long "are we at war with Islam" thread, it's imperative it cannot be a war against Islam.

“Islamic life is like a ladder, with prayer and praising Allah as the bottom rung. The higher rungs represent helping the poor and needy, establishing schools, and supporting charities. The highest rung is jihad.”
Mosab Yousef, Son of Hamas

"Traditional Muslims stand at the foot of the ladder, living in guilt for not really practicing Islam. At the top are fundamentalists, the ones you see in the news killing women and children for the glory of the god of the Qur’an. Moderates are somewhere in between. A moderate Muslim is actually more dangerous than a fundamentalist, however, because he appears to be harmless, and you can never tell when he has taken that next step toward the top. Most suicide bombers began as moderates.”
Mosab Yousef, Son of Hamas

Doing so feeds straight into ISIS narrative. Crank violence high enough, they'll get "pitiless" reaction that drives the moderates to the highest rung of the ladder. The problem is there are billions of that moderates. Unless we throw proportionality in the rule of war out of the window, firebomb + Hiroshima/Nagasaki + war of annihilation is not in the option.

This will sound 110% crazy, but I suggest "grace and mercy." This totally unexpected reaction circumvents their OODA loop. Various deradicalization program has worked with that approach. Further, to encourage reform from within, we should amplify messages from ex-extremist "radicals" who are against violent jihad and have paid the price (death threats): Maajid Nawaz, Ed Husain, Mubain Shaikh, Morten Storm, Nasir Abbas, etc. If you've never heard those names, that's because MSM doesn't pay much attention to potential solution and us-vs-them, sensationalist stories sell better

....or pick the easier option of unleashing the Legionnaires and let loose dogs of war.

[Peregrino]

Originally Posted by frostfire

-----
....or pick the easier option of unleashing the Legionnaires and let loose dogs of war.

The easier option has the benefit of being the only solution with historical precedent for stopping their expansion. As support for my contention I give you Tours, the Reconquista, Malta, Lepanto, Vienna, etc. The only times they've been deterred was when so many were slaughtered that they had to go home and spend generations breeding another army.

How long before Paris is a regular event throughout Europe? What do they have planned for us; i.e., how long before they figure out how to get an Islamabomb into the US? It's inevitable and while our security has to be perfect all the time, they only need to get lucky once.

[SittingElf]

Originally Posted by frostfire

This will sound 110% crazy, but I suggest "grace and mercy." This totally unexpected reaction circumvents their OODA loop. Various deradicalization program has worked with that approach. Further, to encourage reform from within, we should amplify messages from ex-extremist "radicals" who are against violent jihad and have paid the price (death threats): Maajid Nawaz, Ed Husain, Mubain Shaikh, Morten Storm, Nasir Abbas, etc. If you've never heard those names, that's because MSM doesn't pay much attention to potential solution and us-vs-them, sensationalist stories sell better

Had we taken that route much earlier, I would agree that there was a window of opportunity to de-radicalize through the encouragement and counsel of peace-loving Islamic leaders. (Though incredibly few there are...)

Unfortunately, we have allowed ISIS to surmount the tipping point. They are THE defacto leaders of Jihad worldwide now, and they continue to grow adherents without pause.

Working in Nigeria, my expat colleagues and I were alarmed by the recent allegiance of Boko Haram to ISIS, and they now fly the black flag while conducting their terrorist activities in Nigeria, Cameroon, and Chad. Additionally, they are working with ISIS hierarchy to convince Al Shabab in Somalia to change allegiances from Al Quaida to ISIS. This is also happening with other groups in Tanzania, Libya, Egypt, and elsewhere.

It's a freight train running, and I can't believe that "talk" will put the brakes on.

The new leader of Nigeria, President Buhari, is a Muslim, but is completely focused on two issues.... Anti-Corruption (for real), and crushing Boko Haram. He isn't doing it with "talk and counsel". He is building and strengthening the Nigerian Armed Forces for the specific purpose of overwhelming Boko Haram...and is starting to have far more impact than the previous President, Goodluck Jonathon, a Christian, who pretty much ignored the slaughters in the North. Buhari knows that the only way to defeat the Jihadists, is through absolute FORCE.

The other point to consider is that during that early "Window of Opportunity" that may or may not have occurred, ISIS wasn't wholesale murdering Muslims as WELL as "Infidels". Leaders who might otherwise have offered solutions for peace and tranquility are now hiding in their hovels, fearing fatal retribution from ISIS for any attempt to counter their Jihad, or disagreeing with their "tenets".

Just my $.02 , though I work and experience realities in a region closer to ISIS affiliates than many of those who rail against the use of hard force as if massive military might to defeat them is a form of Islamaphobia or intolerance.

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by miclo18d

This WILL happen here! The genie is out of the bottle. The best (strike that, THE ONLY) solution is to not allow ourselves to be disarmed!

I refuse to be a sheep!

Megadittoes.

[tonyz]

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

CNN believe it or not is reporting at least one of the attackers enterd France posing as a Syrian Refugee. WOW who could have seen this coming. I am actually shocked CNN reported this. Some editor slipped up someplce and didnt stick with the liberal script.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/15/world/...cks/index.html

...allowing mass Muslim immigration is merely playing Muslim roulette...the shitbags are undoubtably in groups headed this way...

[bailaviborita]

If we could just get the climate to stop changing- then we'd stop having these darned terrorist attacks...

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-env...ional-security

“Climate change is directly related to the growth of terrorism and if we do not get our act together and listen to what the scientists say, you’re going to see countries all over the world ... struggling over limited amounts of water and land to grow their crops and you’re going to see all kinds of conflict.”

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/...uses-terrorism

The self-proclaimed Democratic socialist said on Sunday that the attack on Paris is an early example of this phenomenon playing out.

“Well what happens in, say, Syria… is that when you have drought, when people can’t grow their crops, they’re going to migrate into cities,” Sanders said.

“And when people migrate into cities and they don’t have jobs, there’s going to be a lot more instability, a lot more unemployment, and people will be subject to the types of propaganda that al Qaeda and ISIS are using right now,” he added.

Sounds like they need jobs too. So- if we just stop the globe from warming or the climate from "changing" and give everyone jobs- viola! no terrorism. Why didn't I think of that?? (actually- he must be reading our Counterinsurgency manual...)

[Trapper John]

Frostire,

“Islamic life is like a ladder, with prayer and praising Allah as the bottom rung. The higher rungs represent helping the poor and needy, establishing schools, and supporting charities. The highest rung is jihad.”
Mosab Yousef, Son of Hamas

When it comes to the conduct of war (and this is war), I am not too nuanced when things get to this point. Given the ladder analogy (a good analogy BTW), destroy the ladder! We can provide nuance after the fact.

Yes, there will be collateral damage. That's why war is hell. There is also an element of personal choice from those on the bottom rung - they are supporting those on the top rung and therefore the enemy.

This is a binary, there are no degrees of goodness or badness. You are either part of the enemy or you are not. There is no middle ground. Now having defined the enemy, it is only up to us and our allies to prosecute an end to the war as quickly as possible. That is the moral and humane thing to do.

BTW, that is the same line of reasoning that lead to the justification for dropping the bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It was the moral thing to do and it saved hundreds of thousands of lives and millions of lives from further suffering. This enemy has made its intentions very clear and they will not stop. The time has come to put and absolute end to this evil!

And let me say that an air campaign comprised of drone strikes and half a dozen sorties a day is just piddling around and only prolongs the suffering of all concerned.

Like we did in Europe and Japan after WWII - rebuild after total absolute destruction of the enemy's infrastructure. Do this as quickly and completely as possible.

[The Reaper]

Time for some shock and awe.

Thus far, I have not been impressed with our campaign.

TR

[Port Hasty]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Time for some shock and awe.

I agree. But I think it's the inevitable battle of political correctness that trickles down to the ROE given to the boots on the ground that's most troubling. It's hard to fight a war with one hand tied behind your back because critics back home think they have a better understanding of the situation and the players involved. I guess 1400 years of terrorism doesn't define a religion, yet 200 years of Western slavery defines whites.

Here are some "moderate" Syrians effectively integrated into Europe. It's only a matter of time before something happens in the US as the number of migrants increases. I just hope the international intelligence community is aware of at least a majority of those who wish to do harm or have engaged in jihad abroad and are now seeking asylum. I'm sure facial recognition software is good enough to detect and recognize the faces of militants in pictures and videos posted online, but that would require massive inter-agency cooperation and sharing intel to be able to recognize and apprehend them.

[GratefulCitizen]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I wonder if the Frogs have a few guillotines that could be put back into service?

TR

Lube the blade with Silver Bullet gun oil (the one infused with pork fat).
"Pitiless" war means also having no mercy for their souls...

[mojaveman]

Time for some shock and awe.

As someone else here has said before, it's time to go Medieval on them.

A fuel air explosive or maybe even a tactical nuclear strike on Al-Raqqa?

Screw them.

[Oldrotorhead]

Originally Posted by mojaveman

As someone else here has said before, it's time to go Medieval on them.

A fuel air explosive or maybe even a tactical nuclear strike on Al-Raqqa?

Screw them.

Anyone still in Al-raqqa is at least a good enough Muslim to get alone with them so there are no innocents there, so there are no innocents there.

[abc_123]

Originally Posted by ddoering

Unfortunately it won't. I'm sure the excuse mill is already lining up apologies etc.... Must have been a movie or something.

We have to be more sensitive to their culture, yada yada yada....

It is only a small minority blah blah blah.......

It couldn't possibly be their religion.

I agree. It's easy to respond with planes dropping bombs in a desert far away from the "homeland". It gets real when a government declares that islam is a contributing factor, or that immigrants from islamic countries are a risk...and then has to do something about it.

Us? We can't even come to grips with the truth that Infantry combat is inherently physical and that men are inherently stronger physically than women. We'll not do what it takes untill its too late. Get ready for the attacks to start here.

[Mills]

Originally Posted by blacksmoke

Looks like the explosives and grenades used in the Paris attacks may have been obtained in July of this year.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0PH16220150707

180 detonators stolen could potentially equal about another 173 more explosions to go.

Maybe less, but that is assuming the dual prime and dual initiate...........