America's Second Civil War

[Old Dog New Trick]

Originally Posted by Paslode

There is less and less to lose by the day, what happens when you have nothing to lose

Wrong question: What happens when you have everything to fight for and nothing to lose?

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

Wrong question: What happens when you have everything to fight for and nothing to lose?

That's a bad day for someone.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Originally Posted by Paslode

That's a bad day for someone.

Correct.

[Trapper John]

Thanks to Dan Crenshaw (RTx) for his sober(and correct) analysis. Trump supporters were misled with disinformation and misinformation that the Congress certifies the electors and could object and remand the electors back to the states for a redo. The Constitution does not say this. Congress merely counts the electors from the states. The only time a decision on which electors to seat arises when a state presents more than one slate of electors. This situation did not arise in the 2020 election.

To suggest that VP Pence could unilaterally elect to not seat the electors presented from the six questionable swing states is patently incorrect and unfortunately in the context of how the POTUS presented this at the rally was, sadly, inciting the crowd. The subsequent actions of the crowd lay squarely at the feet of POTUS IMHO.

Thank you Dan. Even SEALs can get it right once in awhile.

[Penn]

TJ, I would argue that Trump grossly underestimated the opportunity offered to the opposition not considering infiltration by BLM and Antifa to disrupt the protest. A method they use in all other peaceful protest to undermine the outcome.

Trump is deal maker, but he's no General.

[tonyz]

Originally Posted by Trapper John

Thanks to Dan Crenshaw (RTx) for his sober(and correct) analysis. Trump supporters were misled with disinformation and misinformation that the Congress certifies the electors and could object and remand the electors back to the states for a redo. The Constitution does not say this. Congress merely counts the electors from the states. The only time a decision on which electors to seat arises when a state presents more than one slate of electors. This situation did not arise in the 2020 election.

To suggest that VP Pence could unilaterally elect to not seat the electors presented from the six questionable swing states is patently incorrect and unfortunately in the context of how the POTUS presented this at the rally was, sadly, inciting the crowd. The subsequent actions of the crowd lay squarely at the feet of POTUS IMHO.

Thank you Dan. Even SEALs can get it right once in awhile.

Concur.

Trump’s selection of legal advisors has been less than stellar...look at some of his choices starting with Michael Cohen to Rudy Giuliani (in his current form) and others.

Like many businessmen - Trump seems to favor lawyers who promise him (or echo to him) what he wants to hear - rather than acting as a sober advisor on the law - and then letting Trump make the final decision. Many business folks view the law as a simply another tool to bludgeon opponents. Trump comes from this world as a NYC real estate developer. Too many lawyers are more than willing to take your money for false promises and less than stellar legal positions - and then they litigate the issue (on your dime by the way)...to death. Often, they win by attrition.

Trump comes from a world where you can essentially buy whatever legal position you want - then you litigate the living shit out of your position...

...slash and burn law...terribly destructive and inefficient...but that is now a norm in too many circles.

In this specific matter, Trump needed the precise opposite of slash and burn law...he needed sober legal (and political) advice and a much broader view of the big picture. He did not need an echo chamber of bad legal advice, bad political advice, combined with bad SA of the unintended consequences of his words and actions if he/this idea failed.

IMHO, in this matter, his emotions overrode his better judgement.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Spot on Tony, Penn and TJ,

As for Hawley, Cruz and all the others in congress that stood up to the stream roller of election shenanigans going on; the people who elected them should decide if they should stay or go. I don’t believe any of them did anything but use the system of checks and balances we have to review the process. Not a one of them said or stated that they could change the outcome or over turn the election.

Trump has not and never was afforded the opportunity to lead from the front. Even his best and sometimes “loyal” advisers gave him bad advice and the entrenchment of the deep state that we all suspected but are now known undermined his presidency at every turn or fork in the road.


P.S. it is becoming more evident with each passing interview that this whole event was pre-planned and executed by infiltrators of BLM/Antifa and perhaps like all other Democratic run cities and police they were told to stand down and let it happen. And what happens when you whip people up into a frenzy and then set them lose? They follow the first ‘leader’ that shows them the easy path ahead even if it’s wrong.

It’s a sad moment in history, but it may, as many of us are predicting, only the first salvo in a much much more sinister future.

[tonyz]

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

...the entrenchment of the deep state that we all suspected but are now known undermined his presidency at every turn or fork in the road.

So true ODNT !

Exposing China.

Exposing the deep state.

Exposing the intertwined deep state (the Biden’s) with China.

Exposing beyond a shadow of a doubt - the media for the outright propaganda arm that they are.

Exposing big tech as a potential adversary and a danger to free speech in America and the world.

These are some of Trump’s accomplishments that we must not let die on the vine.

The economic accomplishments during the Trump administration should prove that sound economic policies raise all boats.

Now, let’s see how the senile sock puppet fairs.

[cat in the hat]

"Trump is deal maker, but he's no General."

But he said he knows more than the generals.

As far as being "misled" about VP and Congress authorities.......

Maybe if there was a way that Bone Spurs supporters could have read what the constitution actually says they would have had more realistic expectations on the 6th.

[tonyz]

Originally Posted by cat in the hat

But he said he knows more than the generals.

Yeah. That was a cringe-worthy double-face-palm moment.

[cbtengr]

Until we have a fair and balanced press that reports the news and not just their slant of the news we are screwed. The deck has been stacked against DJT ever since he was elected. I think he did a great job all things considered but in the end he has done himself no favors as he leaves kicking and screaming. Within a week of the election I had no doubt that Biden would be sworn in and I have no doubt that nefarious means were used to get him elected, but saying it was all rigged and proving it are two different matters. Trumps actions do not surprise me but they do disappoint me. He will be hounded by his haters for a long time to come but to his credit he is incredibly thick skinned.

[bblhead672]

Originally Posted by cbtengr

Until we have a fair and balanced press that reports the news and not just their slant of the news we are screwed.

How many unfair and unbalanced members of the press would have to take one way helicopter rides in order to convince the rest that they should change their way of doing business?

Not saying that should happen, a friend was asking me.

[TOMAHAWK9521]

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

P.S. it is becoming more evident with each passing interview that this whole event was pre-planned and executed by infiltrators of BLM/Antifa and perhaps like all other Democratic run cities and police they were told to stand down and let it happen. And what happens when you whip people up into a frenzy and then set them lose? They follow the first ‘leader’ that shows them the easy path ahead even if it’s wrong.

Confirmed.

I’m curious how members of the Proud Boys are banned from DC and/or arrested on sight but this turd is not only allowed in but looks to be one of the instigators leading the charge. To add insult to injury (or death of Ashli Babbit, in this case) CNN’s Prince Vanderbilt interviews him as a credible witness to “the insurgency”.

https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2021...-house-n306039

[Old Dog New Trick]

https://bongino.com/mayor-of-dc-disc...ahead-of-rally

Don’t be surprised by any of this.

Look to see who’s arrested and who is not. The Democrats want to destroy you (us) from ever seeking redress. Biden has already labeled us all white supremacist, thugs, Nazi’s and deplorables, but he’s going to unite the country again like Obama did.

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by tonyz

Concur.

Trump’s selection of legal advisors has been less than stellar...look at some of his choices starting with Michael Cohen to Rudy Giuliani (in his current form) and others.

Like many businessmen - Trump seems to favor lawyers who promise him (or echo to him) what he wants to hear - rather than acting as a sober advisor on the law - and then letting Trump make the final decision. Many business folks view the law as a simply another tool to bludgeon opponents. Trump comes from this world as a NYC real estate developer. Too many lawyers are more than willing to take your money for false promises and less than stellar legal positions - and then they litigate the issue (on your dime by the way)...to death. Often, they win by attrition.

Trump comes from a world where you can essentially buy whatever legal position you want - then you litigate the living shit out of your position...

...slash and burn law...terribly destructive and inefficient...but that is now a norm in too many circles.

In this specific matter, Trump needed the precise opposite of slash and burn law...he needed sober legal (and political) advice and a much broader view of the big picture. He did not need an echo chamber of bad legal advice, bad political advice, combined with bad SA of the unintended consequences of his words and actions if he/this idea failed.

IMHO, in this matter, his emotions overrode his better judgement.

At least of late there were few if any choices, it was more of whom Trump had to settle for. Secondly, there was essentially a media blackout on anything that went against the Pro-Joe/Office of President Elect narrative and they went full bore undermining the credibility of Powell, Rudy and others...........and who the hell knows what was/is going on with Lin Wood.