PDA

View Full Version : Fighting with gear


Desert Fox
12-19-2004, 11:49
Hi,
I would like to start a thread about special techniques related to a fight with personal equipment and/or weapon and/or rucksack. I think it can be very useful for CQB when close and surprise encounters are very likely to happen.
I have no experience in such fighting, and I don't know what training members of this board received.

Few points that come in my mind are:
-legs are becoming a decisive weak point;
-an unslung weapon can be thrown on a very close target, immediately followed by another attack, or the use of secondary weapon;
-arms are not very effective, except on an unprotected head;
-front kick (very difficult to block) can be used to just push away the threat, destabilize it, and pull out the secondary weapon. Even with a chest rig or protection, it is very hard to resist a sharp and powerful front kick;
-the importance of a knife;
-a bended charge (usually used by heavy weights) can still be easily blocked with the knee, since the nose is almost always exposed. A bended charge is particularly vulnerable to a counter-strike with a knife on the back;
-the importance of unconventional attacks. (i.e. spiting of throwing objects);
-with rucksack comes the disadvantage of lack of balance;
-a slung carbine can still be used to push away;
-knife is a finishing tool, not a starting one.

I think a good goal of any technique is to destabilize the threat, enabling the use the secondary weapon.

Another interesting aspect is a training with corners, stairs, etc.. I.E. What if on the down side of a stair.

Any ideas??

Martin
12-19-2004, 13:21
-a bended charge (usually used by heavy weights) can still be easily blocked with the knee, since the nose is almost always exposed. A bended charge is particularly vulnerable to a counter-strike with a knife on the back;

What do you mean? A roundhouse low kick?

I've got some thoughts, but I'm not enough of an authority to give much advice on these matters.

Desert Fox
12-19-2004, 13:26
What do you mean? A roundhouse low kick?



No,
I meant this:
http://www.openface.ca/~zibalatz/ndg-karate/reference/Image81.gif

We did some experiments in Kung-fu classes. Very effective, never fails.

NousDefionsDoc
12-29-2004, 10:52
an unslung weapon can be thrown on a very close target

No.


Buy Kill or Get Kilt

Spartan359
12-29-2004, 12:51
Why the hell would you want to throw your weapon at the enemy? What good could that acheive? :eek:

Desert Fox
12-29-2004, 13:15
Why the hell would you want to throw your weapon at the enemy? What good could that acheive? :eek:

Lol good question.
You already know how fast can be a fight. It's a matter of seconds, sometimes less.

If you have a very close and unexpected encounter (<5m), and your main weapon jams, just throwing it to gain an extra second can saves your life. Of course without any secondary weapon this is a lot more hazardous!
If there is no jamming this is not a good idea for obvious reasons.

Razor
12-29-2004, 14:10
Yeah, you do that. Be sure to let us know how it works for you.

Spartan359
12-29-2004, 14:25
Yeah, you do that. Be sure to let us know how it works for you.

I'm sure I know the results of that fight. If your that close why not just use your knife or butt stroke the guy? Me personally, I'm keeping my weapon.

Desert Fox
12-29-2004, 14:47
If your that close why not just use your knife or butt stroke the guy?
Hi,
Instead of just drop it and take your knife, why not throw it, then take your knife. I was talking more about an unslung weapon, and a jammed weapon, and at very short distance.
The purpose of throwing a jammed weapon is just to temporary destabilize the enemy and gain an extra second to pull out the secondary or use another technique (i.e. a knife, like you just proposed).

But like I said, I have no experience in that kind of fight. I'm just bringing points and possible ,,tricks''. What is important is the real-world experience from the QPs and other experienced soldiers.

I'm thinking about bringing a replica of an M-4 at the kung-fu class, and ask the instructors about some techniques.

In the bars a really good and prooved technique is to always be sober and keep a pepsi glass in the lef hand. If needed, throw it and hit. That is unconventional warfare... ;)

Spartan359
12-29-2004, 15:03
I don't know. Just seems odd to get rid of my weapon. But if I'm that close to the enemy any outcome is gonna be nasty. I'm in the Navy so I know all about bar fights. ANYTHING, I REPEAT ANYTHING can be used as a weapon.

Desert Fox
12-29-2004, 15:08
Just seems odd to get rid of my weapon.

Well.....you take it back after you killed the enemy! ;)
LOL

Spartan359
12-29-2004, 15:16
Or take his weapon

Desert Fox
12-29-2004, 15:19
Or take his weapon

Negative....a rail system and a surefire are too expensives!

Smokin Joe
12-29-2004, 17:53
Okay I'm not going to rip on you for your above posted comments.


But, ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS WITH THIS STUFF?

None I repeat NONE of your above mentioned techinques or "tricks" would be a good option in a fight.

Just my .02 cents and I'm Joe nobody.

Spartan359
12-29-2004, 17:57
LOL How very true. But if your weapon jammed it might be awhile before you can clear it since your so close to the enemy. Hell If your that close to the enemy you might as well use your jammed M-4 as a bat.

Desert Fox
12-29-2004, 17:59
Okay I'm not going to rip on you for your above posted comments.


But, ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS WITH THIS STUFF?

None I repeat NONE of your above mentioned techinques or "tricks" would be a good option in a fight.

Just my .02 cents and I'm Joe nobody.

Hi,
you are really surprising me!
How would you fight with gears on?
What techniques or important points do you think are particular to that kind of fighting? Do you think it is the same?
I'm asking that because that's the type of discussion and information am seeking with that thread. Like I said I have no experience in that type of fighting.

Spartan359
12-29-2004, 18:01
HEHE I'm not serious. Just making conversation

NousDefionsDoc
12-29-2004, 18:02
I'm about to DX the whole thing.

Desert Fox
12-29-2004, 18:20
LOL How very true. But if your weapon jammed it might be awhile before you can clear it since your so close to the enemy. Hell If your that close to the enemy you might as well use your jammed M-4 as a bat.

Obviously it depends the type of jamming.
About the ''bat''.....well an M-4 is very hard manipulate that way...and it is very slow. The basic bayonnet fighting course has good and reliable stuff.

Smokin Joe
12-29-2004, 18:25
I'm about to DX the whole thing.

Not like my opinion matters but

I AGREE

brownapple
12-29-2004, 18:28
I'm about to DX the whole thing.

Good idea.


Those who are posting in this thread should have paid attention to NDD's previous comment. Kill or be Killed

Not Kung Fu, not Karate, not TKD, not Thai Boxing...

Techniques for close combat designed by people who had great experience at close combat.

Ambush Master
12-29-2004, 18:33
I'm about to DX the whole thing.


SHOT OUT !!!!

QRQ 30
12-29-2004, 18:44
I just peeked out of curiosity and then continued because of the humor of the situation. :D

If I were to go to a bar it would not be to sit around with a pepsi glass near by and to stay sober in case of a fight. I can do that at home. Get serious!! You are addressing men not teenie boppers.

I have learned many things to do with a mal-functioned or empty weapon but separating one's self from his weapon has never been an option.

The picture you show of a low round house kick is really a round house punch unless you kick with your fist.

I recommend you stay at home with a Pepsi and your books -- you may lose your place in the book in a serious situation. :rolleyes:

I see you have posted quite a bit so maybe I'm off base. I have studied martial arts for thirty years. Now I am studying cane fighting to go along with my present disabilities. Saying what you will do in a situation never works. You have to perform and practice continuously so what happens in a pinch is automatic.

Good luck to you.

BTW" I see you were/are in the field artillary. Now throwing a cannon at someone just may be effective. OTOH if you can throw it you are probably big and strong enough to kick ass without it. :p