View Full Version : Black militia group wants to arrest Trayvon Martin shooter
I am amazed with all the time and effort spent in the past few years conjuring up the Militia Demons that this group got missed.
A spokeswoman for the Southern Poverty Law Center, a civil rights group that monitors hate groups, said her organization didn't have any information on The New Black Liberation Militia (http://sites.google.com/site/newblackliberationinstitute/). The group describes itself on its website as "Developing and Teaching Spiritual, Psychological, Social, Holistic and Scientific Methods and Techniques to ensure the survival of black people in the 21st century and beyond."
http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/black-militia-group-wants-to-arrest-trayvon-martin-shooter.php
Base on the picture:
A New Black Panther Party member stands guard with "700 NBPP" tattooed on his face.. (credit: Sara D. Davis/Getty Images) (http://cbstampa.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/57505139.jpg?w=300)
A New Black Panther Party member stands guard with “700 NBPP” tattooed on his face.., looks like King Samir Shabazz may be in it as well
http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2012/03/15/militia-group-wants-to-arrest-orlando-area-community-watch-leader/
I wonder where Eric Holder stands on Vigilante Groups?
Dude, face it. If you're a Euro-American Judeo-Christian male, you're surrounded.
From what I've gathered about this incident so far, the shooter violated a cardinal rule; it's for the Courts to decide, of course.
Badger52
03-21-2012, 07:53
I wonder where Eric Holder stands on Vigilante Groups?Certainly you know that a "member of a traditionally disadvantaged class" can't be found guilty of stepping on a crack in the sidewalk.
Typical grandstanding move for media attention. :rolleyes:
FWIW, that statement was 'news' from last week before the DOJ dusted off their Marshal's badges, strapped on their six-shooters, woke up Festus to watch the jail, and sashayed on out into the fray.
We'll be hearing about it all for a long time to come as it plays out in the MSM, the blogosphere, talk radio, and the justice system.
Richard :munchin
Interesting, but I could have sworn George Zimmerman was Hispanic... :rolleyes:
When the Cops came to our Neighborhood Watch meetings they stressed we were not LEO's.
I was not there but he was doing neighborhood watch and he had a weapon and a phone.
From what I gather - the neighborhood was fairly nice - similar to mine - which has some less than nice areas within a couple of blocks.
Most unknown "visitors" will pick up the pace and stop looking left and right if you give them that little head nod "I see you" look.
We did have some teenagers a few years back who went through the neighborhood looking for unlocked cars - and they would take anything not nailed down. Spare change and CD's were hot items. They got caught in the act more than once but them buggers were fast and could hop fences with the best of them.
Oh, and I've heard the "kid" was 6'3".
This reminds of Tawana Brawley and the Duke lacrosse cases in that you have Rev. Al and Shabazz grabbing attention, coming to the aid of the 'victim', jumping to conclusions and condemning the fairer skinned person(s) involved without a day in court.
All good comments, all are on the mark.........but damn the hypocrisy really gets me!
Interesting as well that CBS would only put the left cheek of King Shabazz on their story....probably for fear that Homie Shabazz might be recognized as the 2008 NBBP Poll Thug.
Even more amazing the SPLC found tons of information on the Hutaree Group, enough to garner them name specific attention on the MIAC report......but they don't have any information on the NBLM.
Wow!
Al Sharpton was all over it too, big surprise .:cool:
Kyobanim
03-21-2012, 17:46
According to his neighbor there have been 7 B&Es over the last year the whole neighborhood is fed up with it.
This is another of those things that the internet is good for; convicting someone before they are even charged with a crime. No one knows the circumstances involved here. How about waiting until all the facts are properly gathered. You know, that little thing called evidence?
But that tattoo on the face...
really makes life easy on law enforcement
officers.
Can't wait to see it on a mug shot.
According to his neighbor there have been 7 B&Es over the last year the whole neighborhood is fed up with it.
This is another of those things that the internet is good for; convicting someone before they are even charged with a crime. No one knows the circumstances involved here. How about waiting until all the facts are properly gathered. You know, that little thing called evidence?
Like the Duke rape case? Those guys never got an apology from the media, or the so called civil rights leaders.
longrange1947
03-21-2012, 21:54
My bet is two guys with attitudes butting heads and playing my dick is bigger got out of hand and Zimmerman panicked.
However, that is a wild a**ed guess and means nothing until, as has been mentioned, the evidence is in and sorted, cataloged, and EVALUATED.
I wonder where Eric Holder stands on Vigilante Groups?Contact information for the Office of the Attorney General is:
U.S. Department of Justice
950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20530-0001
(202) 514-2001
askdoj@usdoj.gov
Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/DOJ)
Twitter (https://twitter.com/#!/TheJusticeDept)
DoJOIP/FOIA requests (http://www.justice.gov/oip/foia-request.html).
#HTH
Zimmerman was on the ground being punched when he shot Trayvon Martin
Continue reading on Examiner.com Zimmerman was on the ground being punched when he shot Trayvon Martin - Charleston Charleston Conservative | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin?cid=PROD-redesign-right-next#ixzz1pqYqloFm
"..............Literally thousands of articles contain at least one false statement in the first couple of lines. They usually read "George ZImmerman, a white man," or "shoot by a white man." Zimmerman is described by family as a multiracial Hispanic. His appearance is clearly that of a Latino/Mestizo individual. However, the media wants him to be white because that better fits the political narrative they are trying to artificially create. Many news articles have also claimed the neighborhood is "mostly white." This is also a lie. The neighborhood is only 49% white. It is over half non-white.................."
No need for a court system...
Reporting from Sanford, Fla.—
In a tense meeting Wednesday that highlighted growing tensions over the shooting death of an unarmed black teenager, local officials in Sanford, Fla., passed a vote of no confidence in the police chief as protests spread north to New York City, where the slain youth’s parents joined a Manhattan march demanding the killer’s arrest.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-trayvon-martin-sanford-police-chief-20120321,0,4163905.story
And from MSNBC's Judge Lawrence O'Donnell
"Legally, those two words ... it seems to me constitute obvious evidence of hateful intent. This is a racial slur that you're hearing him say minutes, seconds possibly, before he shoots a black teenager to death for doing nothing."
"I've studied police cover-ups in the past," he said. "...I believe that what we have here is evidence of a police cover-up...that local police department never wanted anyone to hear those two words."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/21/lawrence-odonnell-trayvon-martin_n_1369414.html
And of course this happened because of lax gun laws.......at least according to Bloomberg
Trayvon Martin Shooting Shows Perils of Lax U.S. Gun Laws
By the Editors - Mar 20, 2012
The Justice Department opened an investigation this week into the killing of Trayvon Martin, a 17-year-old high school student who was shot dead on Feb. 26 in Sanford, Florida.
Martin was returning to the home of his father’s girlfriend from a 7-Eleven, armed with a package of Skittles and an iced tea, when he was killed. George Zimmerman -- a self-appointed neighborhood watch captain, according to news reports -- had called 911 and proceeded to follow Martin, even after the dispatcher advised him not to. Soon after, Zimmerman told police, he shot Martin.
Crime is a problem in the U.S. So are guns. According to the local police chief, Zimmerman, 28, had a permit for a concealed weapon, which is easily obtained in Florida. He also had a penchant for calling the police, having made 46 such calls in the past 13 months to report suspicious behavior. Based on news reports, it appears that Zimmerman believed he had much to fear from crime. As things turned out, Martin had much more to fear from Zimmerman’s gun.
Martin didn’t have a lot of protection from the law, either. Florida’s “Stand your Ground” law allows people to use deadly force -- even before an unarmed person -- provided they “reasonably believe” it’s necessary to defend themselves. It’s a shockingly low standard, but it’s not inconsistent with the highest law of the land.
Scalia’s Opinion
Writing for a bitterly divided Supreme Court in 2008, Justice Antonin Scalia brushed past the ambiguous language of the Second Amendment and the convoluted history of gun rights in the U.S. to establish or affirm (depending on your point of view) a right of individuals to own guns. Yet in his 5-4 opinion in District of Columbia v. Heller, even Scalia maintained that the right is not unlimited. “We do not read the Second Amendment to protect the right of citizens to carry arms for any sort of confrontation,” Scalia wrote.
The question, then, is what public policies are constitutionally justified to prevent the wrong “sort of confrontation”?
At present, it seems, not many. Since the Heller decision, which overturned Washington’s strict gun law, controls have been crumbling across the nation. In Oklahoma, lawmakers appear poised to enact an “open carry” law, allowing residents to display firearms in public. The National Rifle Association and other lobbyists for gun manufacturers are pushing for loaded guns to be allowed in college classrooms and dormitories. Legislation proposed in Congress would force states to allow holders of concealed weapons permits from other jurisdictions to carry guns where it’s otherwise illegal.
Dissolution of Order
A ruling this month in Maryland seems emblematic of the dissolution of order. U.S. District Judge Benson Everett Legg overturned a state law requiring that residents show a “good and substantial reason” to carry a gun on the grounds that such a standard was unconstitutional.
Activists are now insisting that race played a role in Martin’s death. Perhaps it did. (In a recording of Zimmerman’s 911 call, it sounds as if Zimmerman mutters a racial epithet.) On Tuesday, the state attorney’s office for Brevard and Seminole counties announced that a grand jury would investigate the shooting.
A racial motivation would push the case toward criminal terrain, and justly so. But racism is not the only way a mind can be distorted and its judgment impaired. There is nothing in Florida law, for example, to prevent people whose perceptions are distorted by fear from owning a gun -- or an arsenal of them -- and carrying a concealed and loaded weapon on the street.
This is one obvious flaw in the mad rush to arm America, which we hope statehouses, courts and Congress will belatedly factor into their thinking. Guns ever at the ready will be used, with tragic results.
But there is this contrary opinion to the Bloomberg opinion back with some data about the decline Florida crime
Florida passed "must-issue" concealed carry in 1987 in response to a boom in crime in Florida during the 1980s. Critics said that this law would lead to a "shooting gallery" and drive crimes through the roof.
What has happened to both crime and violent crime since? Violent crime has dropped from 1,220.9 per 100,000 in 1990 to 542.9 in 2010, a drop of more than half. (2011 numbers are not yet out.)
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=203672
No need for a court system...
Ah yes, the MSM version of "shoot first, ask questions later", of course when they do it, it's all good :mad:
And of course this happened because of lax gun laws.......at least according to Bloomberg
MSM whoring for Bloomberg's MAIG, what a surprise.
Stand your ground law or not. Your life needs to be threatened in order to use deadly force. The Kid had a Soda Pop bottle, the other guy had a Gun.
It might answer a lot of questions knowing if it was a contact shot or not. Unless they were fighting for the gun. I can't see this as a good shoot.
Imagine if that were your kid that was shot by some over zealous neighborhood watch guy. He didn't stand his ground. He followed the kid after being told not to by the 911 dispatch.
PedOncoDoc
03-22-2012, 15:53
Stand your ground law or not. Your life needs to be threatened in order to use deadly force. The Kid had a Soda Pop bottle, the other guy had a Gun.
It might answer a lot of questions knowing if it was a contact shot or not. Unless they were fighting for the gun. I can't see this as a good shoot.
Imagine if that were your kid that was shot by some over zealous neighborhood watch guy. He didn't stand his ground. He followed the kid after being told not to by the 911 dispatch.
Chasing down the kid after being told to not pursue is the key here, IMHO. He was not in danger, he chose to hunt the kid down and escalate the situation. This is a tragic killing and the media is taking a sad situation and making it worse. The shooter does need to be arrested and given due process, but I don't see how he can be found innocent given the fact that he chased down a kid who was actively trying to avoid him.
There appear to be conflicting news accounts floating around out there.
The stated timeline - Z's story - appears to be along the lines of Z was following the "kid" - 6'3" football player - while he talked with 911. He was told to break it off and return to his car, which he did. The "kid" followed him back to his car where the contact occured. One witness states Z was on his back and being pummeled by the victim. Z had grass stains on his back and bruising to his face.
Did both have the right to be walking around the neighborhood? Yes. Does one person have the right to be walking in the same direction as another while talking on a cell phone? Yes.
Also there is a story reporting the "kid" was serving a 5 day suspension from school. Wonder what that was for? Just wondering because Z appears to have had a run in with the law way back in his past.
"........but I don't see how he can be found innocent given the fact that he chased down a kid who was actively trying to avoid him..........."
Doc where did you get "chased down"? Some other sites are claiming Z was stalking the kid. Both had just as much right to be walking down the street as the other. If you're walking down a residential street what do you think if you turn around and see somebody walking the same way while talking on a cell phone? Do you start running, dodging or just keep walking?
And by the way, people in my neighborhood have tried to chase down the little punks who were sneaking around stealing from cars and garages in our neighborhood - they were just too fast.
__________________
PedOncoDoc
03-22-2012, 17:05
Doc where did you get "chased down"? Some other sites are claiming Z was stalking the kid. Both had just as much right to be walking down the street as the other. If you're walking down a residential street what do you think if you turn around and see somebody walking the same way while talking on a cell phone? Do you start running, dodging or just keep walking?
Pete - I was not aware of the report that Martin was pummelling Z. My statement was with regards to the report that Z called 911 and was told to break off pursuit and later confronted the kid. If the kid did in fact tell his girlfriend on the phone he was trying to lose Z (as was stated in the original reports), I had assumed (I acknowledge this is a flaw with my argument) that Martin would take a route that made a second chance meeting with Z highly unlikely. Since a second meeting did occur despite Martin's attempt to evade Z per the reports I had read, I concluded that Z must have been stalking/pursuing Martin.
Hopefully the facts will come into the open to give a clearer picture of what actually happened.
There appear to be conflicting news accounts floating around out there.
The stated timeline - Z's story - appears to be along the lines of Z was following the "kid" - 6'3" football player - while he talked with 911. He was told to break it off and return to his car, which he did. The "kid" followed him back to his car where the contact occured. One witness states Z was on his back and being pummeled by the victim. Z had grass stains on his back and bruising to his face.
Did both have the right to be walking around the neighborhood? Yes. Does one person have the right to be walking in the same direction as another while talking on a cell phone? Yes.
Also there is a story reporting the "kid" was serving a 5 day suspension from school. Wonder what that was for? Just wondering because Z appears to have had a run in with the law way back in his past.
"........but I don't see how he can be found innocent given the fact that he chased down a kid who was actively trying to avoid him..........."
Doc where did you get "chased down"? Some other sites are claiming Z was stalking the kid. Both had just as much right to be walking down the street as the other. If you're walking down a residential street what do you think if you turn around and see somebody walking the same way while talking on a cell phone? Do you start running, dodging or just keep walking?
And by the way, people in my neighborhood have tried to chase down the little punks who were sneaking around stealing from cars and garages in our neighborhood - they were just too fast.
__________________
Other than there was a confrontation, someone was shot and killed.....there are too many If's, Ands & Buts for anyone speculate or judge who was in the wrong.
Forensics should tell a good portion of the story of what the shooter did.
I am hoping the shooter followed proper CCH ROE so Sharpton and the Liberal media can eat crow once again.
Contact information for the Office of the Attorney General is:
U.S. Department of Justice
950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20530-0001
(202) 514-2001
askdoj@usdoj.gov
Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/DOJ)
Twitter (https://twitter.com/#!/TheJusticeDept)
DoJOIP/FOIA requests (http://www.justice.gov/oip/foia-request.html).
#HTH
Your all right, even in your humor & sarcasm you provide wealth of information. :D
...... If the kid did in fact tell his girlfriend on the phone he was trying to lose Z (as was stated in the original reports),........
Why would an innocent person walking down a street turn, see someone walking behind them talking on the phone need to lose them? This is not a walking while black situation - the neighborhood was only 49% white and Z was Hispanic.
Would not a person on neighborhood watch see somebody walking through their neighborhood start ducking & weaving think something suspicious was going on? Z did talk with 911 and was told to break off which he said he did.
The reports state the "Kid" was 6'2" or 6'3" depending on source and a football player. Z is reported to be 5'2". Hmmmmmm.
The Reaper
03-22-2012, 18:07
Zimmerman was on the ground being punched when he shot Trayvon Martin
Continue reading on Examiner.com Zimmerman was on the ground being punched when he shot Trayvon Martin - Charleston Charleston Conservative | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin?cid=PROD-redesign-right-next#ixzz1pqYqloFm
"..............Literally thousands of articles contain at least one false statement in the first couple of lines. They usually read "George ZImmerman, a white man," or "shoot by a white man." Zimmerman is described by family as a multiracial Hispanic. His appearance is clearly that of a Latino/Mestizo individual. However, the media wants him to be white because that better fits the political narrative they are trying to artificially create. Many news articles have also claimed the neighborhood is "mostly white." This is also a lie. The neighborhood is only 49% white. It is over half non-white.................."
No lie.
I thought Shephard Smith was trying to re-ignite the Rodney King riots in Orlando today.
All the time, I was wondering if I had slept through the trial somehow.
Way too much agitation and speculation here, setting the scene for post-trial violence if Zimmerman is tried and acquitted.
Plenty of time for punishment after the facts have been gathered. I recommend stopping with the assumptions and gathering facts from the media.
TR
On another note. Even if this guy did everything right in shooting the kid. He is so Fu#%cked
Another lib double standard. That's like two in ten days that have been blown all out of proportion, right?
On another note. Even if this guy did everything right in shooting the kid. He is so Fu#%cked
Nailed it.
Even the conservative media has been blasting this guy all week. Daytime talk radio, nightly news, opinion shows etc.
Even if this turns out to be justifiable shoot, this guys days are numbered. The public has predominately already made up their minds so if police declare it a good shoot it will just be racism and cover ups.
I bet now he realizes that if you go around looking for trouble eventually you will find it.
On another note. Even if this guy did everything right in shooting the kid. He is so Fu#%cked
No cheering section like the OJ acquittal?
The Reaper
03-22-2012, 19:37
No cheering section like the OJ acquittal?
That was DIFFERENT!
TR
Why would an innocent person walking down a street turn, see someone walking behind them talking on the phone need to lose them? This is not a walking while black situation - the neighborhood was only 49% white and Z was Hispanic.
Would not a person on neighborhood watch see somebody walking through their neighborhood start ducking & weaving think something suspicious was going on? Z did talk with 911 and was told to break off which he said he did.
The reports state the "Kid" was 6'2" or 6'3" depending on source and a football player. Z is reported to be 5'2". Hmmmmmm.
I know exactly what you mean. But a private Citizen can not detain another private Citizen for doing any of this. Sounds like he tried to do a Terry Stop. The guy who authored the Stand your Ground Law was talking last night. He said it clearly states "you can not approach someone, challenge someone creating a situation, then use the Stand Your Ground Law as a defense. He said the stand your ground law do's not even apply here.
Destrier
03-23-2012, 05:42
If he broke off and returned to his vehicle like he stated, and the kid then followed and assaulted him. Then the stand your ground law would then apply wouldn't it? Since the kid would then be the aggressor.
That was DIFFERENT!
TR
That's hilarious, but it's also the lynch pin (NPI) of one of the primary drastic problems we face in this Country.
I know exactly what you mean. But a private Citizen can not detain another private Citizen for doing any of this. Sounds like he tried to do a Terry Stop. The guy who authored the Stand your Ground Law was talking last night. He said it clearly states "you can not approach someone, challenge someone creating a situation, then use the Stand Your Ground Law as a defense. He said the stand your ground law do's not even apply here.
Was the "kid" ever detained?
Is it against the law to walk up to somebody you don't know and ask what they are doing in the neighborhood? Damn, I've done the "Can I help you find where you're going" in my neighborhood just to get a closer look at somebody. Reason being we had a guy come home for lunch and find a stranger in his house - bad shot, he missed the perp and the cops never found him. Other than the kids at night checking cars around here the usual MO is to walk through the neighborhood during working hours, kick in somebody's front door and make off with what you can.
Is asking someone a question detaining them? If you try and ask a question and the person takes off wouldn't that be a little strange?
A lot of "facts" are being thrown around right now and the - if true - time line and locations are getting merged and folded in a lot of the stories out there right now.
Typical grandstanding move for media attention. :rolleyes:
FWIW, that statement was 'news' from last week before the DOJ dusted off their Marshal's badges, strapped on their six-shooters, woke up Festus to watch the jail, and sashayed on out into the fray.
We'll be hearing about it all for a long time to come as it plays out in the MSM, the blogosphere, talk radio, and the justice system.
Richard :munchin
http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/22/sharpton-emcees-racially-focused-sanford-rally-warns-against-use-of-violence/
Obama is now pumping it up....;)
Obama: 'If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon'
"When I think about this boy, I think about my own kids," Obama said in Rose Garden remarks. "I think every parent in America should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this. And that everybody pull together."
"But my main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. You know, if I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon," Obama said. "All of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves."
"Obviously this is a tragedy. I can only imagine what these parents are going through," Obama said. "All of us have to do some soul searching to figure out how something like this has happened."
http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/03/obama-i-had-a-son-hed-look-like-trayvon-118439.html
Obama is now pumping it up....;)
Obama: 'If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon'
"When I think about this boy, I think about my own kids," Obama said in Rose Garden remarks. "I think every parent in America should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this. And that everybody pull together."
"But my main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. You know, if I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon," Obama said. "All of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves."
"Obviously this is a tragedy. I can only imagine what these parents are going through," Obama said. "All of us have to do some soul searching to figure out how something like this has happened."
http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/03/obama-i-had-a-son-hed-look-like-trayvon-118439.html
Yeah. :rolleyes: Somebody needs to do some serious soul searching to determine honestly whether he'd even be commenting on the crime if the victim were Euro-American.
Destrier
03-23-2012, 09:59
He did not comment to my knowledge, on the white boy set on fire by two black boys.
However, he did refrain from leaping to make an accusation of guilt.
Guess someone learned something from the teachable beer moment.
http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/22/sharpton-emcees-racially-focused-sanford-rally-warns-against-use-of-violence/
The comment by Bled2003 makes ya wonder....good point..
Most "african-American" killings are done by other "african-Americans"....where's the rally for that????
The comment by Bled2003 makes ya wonder....good point..
Most "african-American" killings are done by other "african-Americans"....where's the rally for that????
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm
The last chart in the quoted link is quite interesting given the topic of conversation. Black on white crimes committed by strangers occur ~15% more frequently than white on black crimes.
Obama is now pumping it up....;)
Excuse me. You misspelled "pomping".
Iraqgunz
03-23-2012, 13:29
I think the key here is what happened after he (Zimmerman) called 911. If he was told to back off and in fact escalated the situation he is screwed.
If however the kid (Martin) approached him at his vehicle and then assaulted him then I would think he would be the aggressor. I hope the initial investigation by the PD documented any so called "grass stains", bruising or other indicators that Zimmerman was beaten or hit.
I am more concerned that this is going to become a Rodney King scenario in that the jury may not convict and then the Feds step in. Or people may be so afraid that they convict him anyway afraid of the violence that may come if they don't.
The last chart in the quoted link is quite interesting given the topic of conversation. Black on white crimes committed by strangers occur ~15% more frequently than white on black crimes.Mr. Zimmerman is white?
The last chart in the quoted link is quite interesting given the topic of conversation. Black on white crimes committed by strangers occur ~15% more frequently than white on black crimes.
Charts with "poor definitions" are misleading. The latest data behind the charts you cite is from 2005. It shows
378 "Black on White" homicides
95 "White on Black" homicides
The 15% is an "illusion".
Mr. Zimmerman is white?
That depends of what "white" is. I've seen "blacks" whiter than Mr Z. A couple of famous female singers comes to mind right now.
For years libs have said there were "whites" and then there were people of color - Latino being one of them. So now we have a Hispanic.
Is a Hispanic Latino? I thought the left considered them one in the same.
But this seems not to be the case in this story. It plays better to have him white so we now have the new class of "White Hispanic". I wonder how dark you have to be to be some other color of Hispanic.
That depends of what "white" is. I've seen "blacks" whiter than Mr Z. A couple of famous female singers comes to mind right now.
For years libs have said there were "whites" and then there were people of color - Latino being one of them. So now we have a Hispanic.
Is a Hispanic Latino? I thought the left considered them one in the same.
But this seems not to be the case in this story. It plays better to have him white so we now have the new class of "White Hispanic". I wonder how dark you have to be to be some other color of Hispanic.QP Pete--
The U.S. Census Bureau and other institutions have a category for "white, non hispanic", and therefore, by implication, a category for "white, hispanic." Complicating the issue is the fact that latinos--like blacks--have additional distinctions for skin color.
However, my question remains the same: Why are the data relevant in this case? What is the evidence that Mr. Martin's conduct was motivated by his perception of Mr. Zimmerman's race?
Bluntly, I find it discouraging that the discussion of this terrible incident has centered around race to the exclusion of other factors. This dynamic is growing despite the guidance you and other QPs have offered. For example, you have raised the point that the two involved had a tremendous height difference. Moreover, you have concurrently made the point that this height difference might have trumped Mr. Zimmerman's and Mr. Martin's age difference.
QP Longrange1947 has raised the possibility that the two individuals may have been driven by their gender identities (although he put it much more succinctly).
You, and others, have pointed to the specific context of the community, the communications between Mr. Zimmerman and the 911 operator. These points raise questions about Mr. Zimmerman's training and his temperament.
Yet, despite these, and other opportunities for discussion, some of my fellow members of the peanut gallery want to make this situation into the latest round of something else. MOO, if one is going to criticize the Reverend Al Sharpton and others for race baiting, one should not display the behavior one purports to abhor. It comes across as slightly inconsistent. YMMV.
QP Pete--
The U.S. Census Bureau and other institutions have a category for "white, non hispanic", and therefore, by implication, a category for "white, hispanic." Complicating the issue is the fact that latinos--like blacks--have additional distinctions for skin color.
However, my question remains the same: Why are the data relevant in this case? What is the evidence that Mr. Martin's conduct was motivated by his perception of Mr. Zimmerman's race?
Bluntly, I find it discouraging that the discussion of this terrible incident has centered around race to the exclusion of other factors. This dynamic is growing despite the guidance you and other QPs have offered. For example, you have raised the point that the two involved had a tremendous height difference. Moreover, you have concurrently made the point that this height difference might have trumped Mr. Zimmerman's and Mr. Martin's age difference.
QP Longrange1947 has raised the possibility that the two individuals may have been driven by their gender identities (although he put it much more succinctly).
You, and others, have pointed to the specific context of the community, the communications between Mr. Zimmerman and the 911 operator. These points raise questions about Mr. Zimmerman's training and his temperament.
Yet, despite these, and other opportunities for discussion, some of my fellow members of the peanut gallery want to make this situation into the latest round of something else. MOO, if one is going to criticize the Reverend Al Sharpton and others for race baiting, one should not display the behavior one purports to abhor. It comes across as slightly inconsistent. YMMV.
All good points as usual, however I would consider the topic, the discussion and many of the comments are IMO regarding a one sided OP by Rev. Al, the media trial and reverse discrimination in various forms.
YMMV
QP Pete--
It comes across as slightly inconsistent. YMMV.
That's slightly understated. ;)
Well, speaking of "splitting hairs"..My S-I-L is fairly dark complected, his mom is from Cuban Decent, and his dad Chilean.
He is very "self concious" of his looks. I don't mean this in a derogatory way, but even he says "I look like a Mexican"...which honestly he does, but he's not.
Anyway, to the point I guess. He has tried to get "assistance" from various agencies, (for school etc, etc) when listing his dads origin, they classify him as white....and he don't look nuthin' like "white" by any means.
I 'spose it falls into whatever the Gov't "categorizes" you....
But what difference should that make...why do we have to always "check the block" on race when filling out app's...WGAF???
stop that, maybe stop categorizing folks...
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-trayvon-martin-case-jesse-jackson-20120323,0,2131299.story
Civil rights leader Jesse Jackson said Friday that he's grateful the rest of the country has sat up and taken notice of the tragic slaying of Trayvon Martin. But he can't help but wonder: Why has it taken so long for everyone else to recognize the chronic injustices that African Americans face?
"We're surprised that everyone else is surprised," Jackson told the Los Angeles Times. African Americans have tried for decades to get the rest of America to understand their plight, he said, particularly their beliefs that justice is still elusive in many parts of America, especially the Deep South.
Then along comes the Trayvon Martin case, and facts that are not in contention: Volunteer neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman pursued and then gunned down the unarmed 17-year-old last month, and never faced arrest because police said there was no evidence to contradict his claim that he fired in self-defense.
"I hope that this will be a transformative moment," Jackson said.
Jackson was speaking Friday morning from the Chicago offices of his Rainbow PUSH Coalition. He had just returned from duties in Belgium and Switzerland. He was in Geneva on Wednesday as part of a delegation of religious leaders trying to find a way to end the violence in Syria. Jackson was preparing to get back on a plane for a flight south so he can add his voice to the growing protests in and around Sanford, Fla., where Martin's shooting took place.
Jackson said the Martin case is getting plenty of media attention overseas, attention that is both embarrassing to white America and humiliating to black America.
Moreover, he said, the failure to make an arrest in the case takes away the nation's "moral authority" to address injustices in other countries when it fails to do the same within its own borders.
Jackson predicted that the protests will continue to multiply in number and that the ranks of protestors will swell until Zimmerman is arrested.
"As long as he is outside of the court system, the protests will intensify and spill over into other dimensions," Jackson said. "His lack of appearance in the court system is a source of embarrassment and humiliation. He needs to face the court."
Jackson said that there is a mistaken assumption in some corners of America that all racial problems went away with the election of President Obama. "There was this feeling that we were kind of beyond racism," he said. "That's not true. His victory has triggered tremendous backlash."
He added: "Blacks are under attack." African American families are facing record home foreclosures and unemployment. But not whites, of course.Their children are burdened with student loan debt. They were forced to borrow the money, right? States, particularly conservative ones, are passing voter laws that leaders know will disenfranchise blacks and other minorities. Meanwhile, the nation's prisons are brimming with black faces, he said, and their numbers that suggest that the legal system is quicker to send blacks to prison than whites. lol Evidently the convicts aren't committing crimes, they're just being incarcerated.
Jackson said gunfire in America continues to be a problem for all Americans -- not just blacks. Why, he asked, isn't America outraged, that far more people die of gun violence in one year in America than the number of soldiers killed in the wars waged in Iraq and Afghanistan?
"Our disparities are great," he said. "Targeting, arresting, convicting blacks and ultimately killing us is big business."
Jackson said he also wants to see the Martin protests accomplish something else beyond justice for the slain teen's family. He said he wants the repeal of Florida's controversial "stand your ground" law, which gives legal protection to people who fight back in self-defense. Some believe that the Florida police were nodding to that law when they declined to arrest Zimmerman after the Feb. 26 shooting.
Many other states have similar statutes, Jackson said, and he wants them all repealed, starting with Florida's.
"No justice, no peace," he said. "The indifference to this kind of pain is just going to intensify the protests."
SOS What a pathetic moron.cc
Here's a perfect example of the blatant hypocrisy of these bastards.
Here's a black guy who shoots four other blacks (I assume, it being Durham), and if you hear the POTUS or Jesse Jackson comment on this one, I'll kiss your ass.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/23/gunman-sought-in-north-carolina-tire-shop-shooting/?test=latestnews
Police are hunting a gunman who shot four people at a North Carolina tire store Friday, killing two of them.
Witnesses said the suspect walked into J.T. Tire in Durham around 3 p.m. local time and shot the owner, another employee and a customer, according to WRAL-TV.
There was no immediate information on the fourth shooting victim. A fifth person was hurt trying to flee the gunfire.
Police have not officially identified those shot, but witnesses said one of the dead was a cab driver for Durham's Best Cab Company, according to WRAL. His co-workers said he stopped in to fix a tire and was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
The store's owner, John R. Turner, was reportedly among the wounded. "My uncle ain't never done nobody wrong," his relative Ray Turner told WRAL.
Another station, WTVD-TV, said the second fatality was a female cousin of the owner.
The shooter jumped into a silver sedan and sped away from the premises moments after the shooting. He is described as a black male, approximately six feet, with a tattoo on the left side of his face.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/23/gunman-sought-in-north-carolina-tire-shop-shooting/?test=latestnews#ixzz1pzi83qVP
What if Z is never charged. Riots will break out if the GJ says no to charges. When do they start?
Also if he is never charged. There are some very stupid people out there who own/carry Guns. Do we want them thinking they can initiate a situation. When that situation turns into a street fight, they can pull their gun and shoot that person they initially approached for walking thru someones yard.
I also notice that the media is feeding the story like a hungry lion. Everyone wants their 15 minutes of fame. It's hiring season for civil rights activist.
...........I also notice that the media is feeding the story like a hungry lion. Everyone wants their 15 minutes of fame. It's hiring season for civil rights activist.
I cruise a number of sites. It appears the two camps (Ratio depends on site) are solidly divided into two camps. The first is that Z man is a cold blooded killer who stalked the innocent little child. The second is that the lad was a getto punk who chased after Z man and started pounding him.
It all seems to be loosely based on the Fox story the morning after, "John's" statement, the kid suspended from school, the police tapes and a few statements from the police.
All the other "facts" are beginning to be like internet ghosts. Taking on a life of their own. Floating around and becoming "fact" because they are repeated so much.
Oh, and some are pointing out the number of times Z man did the neighborhood watch deal and that his group was not sanctioned by the police. The sanctioned bit I'd be interested in - but the PD does require a bit of organization - leaders - keeping things organized. Most collapse when the leaders burn out and stop leading - but the individuals involved still have an interest in their neighborhood.
I was active in mine for three years and did it twice a week for a month every third month. That comes out to around 96 times - OMG :eek: I need to turn myself in. My biggest notes in the log were homes with garage doors open - and this was during the time of the teenagers lifting stuff from cars and garages.
Dragbag036
03-24-2012, 07:17
The point of this thread seemed to be about "the kid" and "the grown man". If I did not know many of you here, I would think some of you love to talk about race. And no, I did not say you were racist!
Just the othe night the wife and I were laying in bed and we both heard what sounded like a can hitting the street. Our MD, Howard county neighborhood is very decent, but we have had a rash of vehicles that have been left unlocked, burglarized. As my wife looked out the window she saw two men/boys in our front yard. I immediately got up, turned on additional outside lighting, both car alarms, and hit my ADT alarm for 30 seconds. People disappear. I put on clothes, grabbed my Glock 30SF and went out the door. Upon my inspection I heard movement in between my house and the neighbors. As I stood ready for whomever to appear, a 6'2 bearded Caucasian came out on a cell phone and said "what's up?". I could clearly see it was a teenager and ask very politely WTF? The kid looked at me and said, just trying to get to the girl 15 yo in that house. I explained that I know the parents and that he should leave before something bad happens based on the prior incidents in our cul-de-sac.
Now that long and short of that story is " what would have happened to me a somewhat trained guy (for those who know me), had I shot one of the two idiots trying to get a piece of a$$?, cutting through my property. For me, I could give two shits about the race of any of the folks involved in this situation, the bottom line is, what is the normal protocol involving a shooting?
Brothers, as I said in the beginning, I wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong idea about you, or this site. Hell I'm not the most PC guy on the planet, I actually hate how people are so sensitive. But I have to agree with an earlier comment, that we are no better than the dumb asses that continue to bring up old shit, white or black, if that is the basis of this forum. For me, I stick to and wait for the facts from the LEO's all others be damned with their hypothesized two cents.
Rant over....DB
Dusty You really believe FOX news is the gospel don't you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-5d5IfdYK4
No, I believe the Gospel is the Gospel.
Sometimes FOX sucks, too-but I've seen many stories reported by that network that the other networks refused to cover due to bias.
Take off your blinders, son-you're being led around like a bleating sheep.
The "new witness" some news stories have been reporting the last 24 hours is not "new".
The news stories are just regurgitating "John's" witness account told to Fox News the morning after.
But each new story is passed on as a "new witness".
Threat or No Threat
Thanks, DB - I agree.
Now...if I can only catch Geraldo skulking through my back yard wearing a hoodie... :rolleyes: :D
Richard :munchin
Thanks, DB - I agree.
Now...if I can only catch Geraldo skulking through my back yard wearing a hoodie... :rolleyes: :D
Richard :munchin
I always wondered where Al Capone's Vault was at. Now I know.
ZonieDiver
03-24-2012, 08:33
Thanks, DB - I agree.
Now...if I can only catch Geraldo skulking through my back yard wearing a hoodie... :rolleyes: :D
Richard :munchin
Dragbag,
I'll echo Richard's comment, quoted above. Your post was very well-stated and reflects my thoughts on this matter... and a lot of threads here at PS.com.
Brothers, as I said in the beginning, I wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong idea about you, or this site. Hell I'm not the most PC guy on the planet, I actually hate how people are so sensitive. But I have to agree with an earlier comment, that we are no better than the dumb asses that continue to bring up old shit, white or black, if that is the basis of this forum. For me, I stick to and wait for the facts from the LEO's all others be damned with their hypothesized two cents.
Rant over....DB
Brother, we aren't the ones who are making a big deal out of the victim's race.
The Reaper
03-24-2012, 20:43
Brother, we aren't the ones who are making a big deal out of the victim's race.
Or Zimmerman's.
TR
This story gets uglier by the day....
'Wanted Dead or Alive' poster issued for George Zimmerman by New Black Panther Party
Sanford : FL : USA | Mar 23, 2012 at 3:11 PM PDT
By Harold Michael Harvey SelectMedia
Wanted Dead or Alive Posted issued by New Black Panther Party for George Zimmerson phto (c) 2012 Harold Michael Harvey
The New Black Panther Party for Self-Defense have posted a wanted dead or alive poster for George Zimmerman in the Trayvon Martin Case
Adele Azarrucquoi shocked at reference to Black Power at New Black Panther Party press conference (c) 2012 by Harold Michael Harvey
Yesterday afternoon at a press conference, the New Black Panther Party for Self-Defense circulated a “wanted dead or alive” poster for George Zimmerman for shooting to death a Florida teenager four weeks ago.
Zimmerman, a self-proclaimed neighborhood watch captain, said he accosted what he alleges was a suspicious looking black male walking through his neighborhood. He further contends the man punched him and bloodied his nose, so Zimmerman fired a gun shot striking the man in the chest. The “man” was 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, who would lie in the county morgue three days before police alerted his parents of their child’s death.
Minister Mikhail Muhummud led the press conference, calling for the firing of Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee, the arrest of George Zimmerman and some involvement from President Obama. Muhummud stated he is the southern regional director for the New Black Panther Party for Self-Defense located in Jacksonville, Florida. While Minister Muhummud fired off a list of demands and expressed outrage over the handling of the shooting and subsequent investigation, a member of the group passed flyers to about 100 people who showed up for the press conference. Muhummud told the group he was not concerned with rumors of death threats to George Zimmerman, “He should be afraid for his life…” (SEE http://youtu.be/ZE_i9TELcfw)
Muhummud said, “I’m here today to appeal to the country, particularly President Obama, to do the right thing while you have the power.” He said that “Trayvon Martin symbolizes my son.”
President Obama had not addressed the issue, but had advised the Justice Department to open an investigation into the case. This morning following Muhummud’s press conference, President Obama spoke about the case for the first time publicly. He echoed the sentiments of Muhummud saying “If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon...” (SEE http://youtu.be/efZNgSEpB1k).
When the group started chanting “Black Power,” Ms. Adele Azarucquoi, a white long time resident of Sanford shouted, “What about White people.”
Muhummud quickly said, “We don’t hate any group. We hate injustice. We appreciate the whites who have come forth to help us.”
There were less than a dozen whites, not counting media, among the mostly African American crowd. “I hope there are more people who look like me at the next rally for Trayvon’s family,” Ms. Azarucquoi said.
After the news conference Ms. Azarucquoi told a journalist, “This heart of mine is sick when a kid gets killed because his skin is different from the skin of the guy who shoots him.”
She then requested that a journalist walk across the street with her to speak with Police Chief Bill Lee. Upon arrival at his office the receptionist said he wasn’t in the office then said “he hasn’t been in the office in several days.”
Later in the day Chief Lee announced he was temporarily stepping down.
Present at the news conference was Ms. Mildred Duprey de Robles, Conciliation Specialist for the United States Justice Department’s Office of Community Relations. Ms. Duprey de Robles declined to speak with the press other than to say she was there as an observer.
The Justice Department’s Office of Community Relations is mandated to help negotiate peaceful resolutions to community problems. She appeared to have gotten an ear full and left quickly when the press insisted on more communication from her.
Members of the public who came in support of the New Black Panther Party’s press conference were vocal in their outrage over the shooting and investigation. They called for the dismantling of “the good ole boy network.”
Pastor Paul Wright, whose 1000 member church, Calvary Temple Praises, is several blocks from the police department, dropped by the press conference. When asked about the “wanted dead or alive” poster Pastor Wright said, “I don’t agree with that. We don’t need to set a precedent that this is the way to resolve problems.”
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012
It would explain a lot. Has anyone else noticed how yesterday the news was covering this non stop. But overnight it's become third page news. Think the media is backing off because they know something.
But the fact that Zimmerman initiated contact and is known by 911 dispatchers because he calls so often. Still bothers me. If he branded his weapon, Martin could of been in fear for his life and attacked.
I wonder if the President will speak out against this shooting (http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/03/mississippi-state-university-shooting-student-shot-and-killed-on-campus-74179.html) at MSU? :confused:
Violence happens all the time and seems to be colorblind.
Some interesting pictures are popping up..
The original choir boy picture of TM at 12-13 yo and TM's FB pictures, that have mysteriously disappeared???..
GZ in what looks like a day-glow orange (actually looks like a red polo) county road gang work shirt and GZ's in a business suit..
Which picture would you use to get YOUR story across???
No Bias here.. NOT... :mad:
Prayers Out, that the facts are examined here , and justice is done.
What are the odds,
1) Roger Goodell ( apparently the only executive in the country with a pair) suspends The New Black Panther Party for illegal bounties as well.
2) Sean Payton coaches the "New Black Panthers" flag fooball team for the 2012 season.
3) This stuff fires up that idiot Florida pastor to start buring Korans again.
4) Zero is "disappointed" and we have another beer summit.
Florida's Stand Your Ground statute was a key component of the matter which was discussed on the weekly political wrap-ups this morning - sounds like a long-festering issue which this particular incident is bringing to light.
The death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin has put Florida's "stand your ground" law under scrutiny after police cited it as one reason they did not arrest George Zimmerman, the 28-year-old Neighborhood Watch volunteer who said he shot Trayvon in self-defense.
But the man who signed "stand your ground" into law says officials have it wrong. Speaking Friday in Texas, former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush said "stand your ground" doesn't apply to this case."Stand your ground means stand your ground. It doesn't mean chase after somebody who's turned their back," Bush told The Dallas Morning News.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-24/news/os-trayvon-martin-jeb-bush-stand-your-ground-20120324_1_jeb-bush-ground-neighborhood-watch-volunteer
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
'Stand Your Ground' law: What's legal?
OrlandoSentinel, 17 Mar 2012
At the center of the controversy surrounding the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin is a Florida law that changed America's definition of self-defense.
The "Stand Your Ground" law, which enables people who perceive a threat to use deadly force without first trying to retreat from a confrontation, was a landmark when it passed in 2005. Since then, 16 more states have adopted similar laws, which are far more lenient than the widely adopted "Castle Doctrine," which allows people to defend themselves in their homes.
George Zimmerman, the community-watch leader who shot Trayvon during an altercation in a gated Sanford community last month, told police he was acting in self-defense. They have not pressed charges.
About Florida's law:
Q: How did law enforcement respond to the law?
A: Prosecutors across the state opposed the law before it was enacted Oct. 1, 2005. In the following five months, there were at least 13 shootings in Central Florida where self-defense was claimed. Out of six men killed and four more wounded in the cases, only one was armed. Some Orlando-area police agencies simply stopped investigating shootings involving self-defense claims and referred them directly to state prosecutors to decide.
Q: The law lets people use force if they "reasonably believe" it's necessary to defend themselves. What defines "reasonable" in the perception of deadly threat?
A: Professor Scott E. Sundby of the University of Miami School of Law says that part of the law is included in many self-defense statutes. "The court leaves that amorphous question to the jury to decide," he said.
Deciding whether someone acted reasonably is also a critical part of the "the fact-intensive inquiry" prosecutors must make before deciding whether charges are warranted in a shooting, Sundby said. That is presumably what is happening in the Seminole-Brevard State Attorney's Office now.
Q: Can an unarmed person legally pose a deadly threat?
In case after case during the past six years, Floridians who shot and killed unarmed opponents have not been prosecuted. Former National Rifle Association President Marion Hammer, a major force behind the law's passage, cited her own size and age in 2006 interview with the Sentinel about what she would do if confronted by a younger and larger aggressor.
"I'm 4-foot-11. I'm 67 years old," she said. "If you came at me, and I felt that my life was in danger or that I was going to be injured, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot you."
Q: What do critics of the law say?
Arthur C. Hayhoe, director of the Florida Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, calls the law "a right to commit murder."
"I predict this case is not going to be charged — it's going to be dismissed," he said of the case against Zimmerman. "Almost every case between two individuals where one was armed and the other was not is dismissed."
Even supporters of the law say it has its limits.
" 'Stand Your Ground' is not a 007 license to kill," said Sean Caranna, founder of Florida Carry, a group advocating gun owners' rights. He stressed that shooting in self-defense requires " a real fear your life is in danger."
Justifiable use of force
776.012 Use of force in defense of person. — A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-17/news/os-qanda-trayvon-martin-shooting-20120317_1_law-enforcement-castle-doctrine-deadly-force
Florida's Stand Your Ground statute was a key component of the matter which was discussed on the weekly political wrap-ups this morning - sounds like a long-festering issue which this particular incident is bringing to light.
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
That's all well and good, but the brouhaha is about the victim being black, not the "stand your ground" BS.
Were the victim white, you wouldn't hear jack about it.
Especially from professional extortionists like Sharpton and Jackson.
[COLOR="lime"]But the man who signed "stand your ground" into law says officials have it wrong. Speaking Friday in Texas, former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush said "stand your ground" doesn't apply to this case."Stand your ground means stand your ground. It doesn't mean chase after somebody who's turned their back," Bush told The Dallas Morning News.
I read that yesterday and was a bit puzzled why the Jebster could make such a statement without knowing all the evidence.
This whole debacle cast a dim light on the so-called leadership of the community and the nation.
The key is what happened after he was talking to the police and they told Z to break it off and stop following TM.
Did he stop and start returning to the truck and TM followed him? Or did he go up to TM and an altercation break out?
If it is the latter - is it against the law to walk up to somebody in your neighbodhood you don't know and ask them what they are doing? If you're minding your own business walking through a different neighborhood - it's reported in some places TM didn't live there but was visiting - and someone questions you with something like "Hey man, you live around here?" is it within your right to say "F Off"?
So I'm sure the police are going through the time line and locations covering the period between the call and the time "John" sees Z on the ground with TM on top.
You would think it would be simple but there are numerous variations of the same story floating around out there - Z on "duty", Z just driving, Z in truck following, Z on foot following - on and on and on.
I think the only ones with a good idea right now are the police doing the investigation - and the first indication of how it's going to go is right after it's presented to the Grand Jury.
No matter what - lots of people are going to be upset.
The key is what happened after he was talking to the police and they told Z to break it off and stop following TM.
Did he stop and start returning to the truck and TM followed him? Or did he go up to TM and an altercation break out?
If it is the latter - is it against the law to walk up to somebody in your neighbodhood you don't know and ask them what they are doing? If you're minding your own business walking through a different neighborhood - it's reported in some places TM didn't live there but was visiting - and someone questions you with something like "Hey man, you live around here?" is it within your right to say "F Off"?
So I'm sure the police are going through the time line and locations covering the period between the call and the time "John" sees Z on the ground with TM on top.
You would think it would be simple but there are numerous variations of the same story floating around out there - Z on "duty", Z just driving, Z in truck following, Z on foot following - on and on and on.
I think the only ones with a good idea right now are the police doing the investigation - and the first indication of how it's going to go is right after it's presented to the Grand Jury.
No matter what - lots of people are going to be upset.
I am just hoping no one goes Rodney King after the verdict.
That's all well and good, but the brouhaha is about the victim being black, not the "stand your ground" BS.
The blogospheric and media-driven smoke, maybe, not the issues - but as Yogi Bear used to say, "Where there's smoke, BooBoo, there may be salmon."
Richard
The Reaper
03-25-2012, 14:10
I am just hoping no one goes Rodney King after the verdict.
Practically guaranteed, after the media (to include Fox) whipped this up as a racially based murder.
TR
Practically guaranteed, after the media (to include Fox) whipped this up as a racially based murder.
TR
Then the best we can hope is that the verdict comes after the election.
Dragbag036
03-25-2012, 14:35
Brother, we aren't the ones who are making a big deal out of the victim's race.
Dusty, not one to argue with my brothers. I just try not to regurgitate the media. They only want to get better ratings. They will tell uneducated black or white Americans anything to get them to watch their crap. And no self proclaimed leader black or white is going to be my spokesperson.
DB
Iraqgunz
03-25-2012, 14:39
I just bought another 3K rounds of assorted 5.56 flavors, a G19 and another lower receiver.
I am just hoping no one goes Rodney King after the verdict.
I guess the NBPP will have to take out a bounty on this guy too........
Reuters: LINK (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-friend-idUSBRE82O0FE20120325)
Black friend defends shooter of Florida teen
By Daniel Trotta
SANFORD, Florida | Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:44pm EDT
(Reuters) - George Zimmerman is not a racist and cried for days after shooting dead a black Florida teenager, a black, longtime friend of Zimmerman said on Sunday in a sympathetic portrayal of a man maligned by critics as a trigger-happy bigot.
Zimmerman, 28, a white Hispanic, shot Trayvon Martin, 17, in what he said was self defense during an altercation in the gated community Zimmerman was watching on February 26 in Sanford, Florida. After attracting little notice initially, the case gained widespread attention, sparking protests and renewing a national debate about race.
"He couldn't stop crying. He's a caring human being," Joe Oliver, 53, a former television news reporter and anchor in Orlando who has known Zimmerman for several years, told Reuters in a telephone interview.
Oliver's wife is a close friend of Zimmerman's mother in law, who told him Zimmerman cried for days in remorse after the shooting. He also spoke directly with Zimmerman on Saturday.
"I mean, he took a man's life and he has no idea what to do about it. He's extremely remorseful about it," Oliver said.
Oliver's account differs from the withering criticism Zimmerman has sustained from demonstrators across the country who have demanded his arrest and accused him of racial bias in targeting Martin. Celebrities have taken up the cause of justice for the teen, and President Barack Obama said "all of us have to do some soul-searching" as a result of the tragedy.
"I'm a black male and all that I know is that George has never given me any reason whatsoever to believe he has anything against people of color," Oliver said.
Sanford police did not arrest Zimmerman, saying the evidence could not disprove his account of self-defense, though the case is under review by a state special prosecutor and the U.S. Justice Department.
Zimmerman dropped out of public view shortly after the shooting and his whereabouts were unknown. The New Black Panther Party, an African American organization taking its name from the radical group of the 1960s, has placed a $10,000 bounty on Zimmerman.
"All these people who are threatening George, what makes them any better than the person they think he is?" Oliver said. "You've got all these people wanting to lynch the man and they don't know the whole story. There are huge gaps that are being filled in and interpreted without evidence."
Oliver tried to reach Zimmerman after the shooting but he had not spoken with him until Saturday in a conversation arranged by Zimmerman's lawyer, Craig Sonner.
'LEAP TO CONCLUSION'
As a black man, Oliver said minorities are often unfairly treated, but he believed Zimmerman was simply doing his job as a neighborhood watch volunteer by growing suspicious over an unfamiliar person walking through a neighborhood that had suffered some break-ins.
Martin lived in Miami but was with his father on a visit to his father's fiancée's home inside the gated community.
"I understand how they're able to leap to the conclusion. You have a dead teenager. This guy is white so it must be a hate crime. There's going to be evidence to come out that basically will justify George's concern," Oliver said.
"He (Zimmerman) confirmed for me that he was not the aggressor. But I did not go into details as to how it got to that aggressive point," Oliver said. Critics have expressed skepticism about Zimmerman's self defense claims and have faulted him for pursuing the teen against the instructions of an emergency operator.
At one point Oliver became choked with emotion talking about his friend and said he was coming forward freely even though it may expose him to reprisals.
"I just have to do what's right, not just for my friend but for everyone involved," Oliver said. "He's in hiding. His mother in law can't see her own daughter because she fears for their lives."
I guess the NBPP will have to take out a bounty on this guy too........
Reuters: LINK (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-friend-idUSBRE82O0FE20120325)
Black friend defends shooter of Florida teen
By Daniel Trotta
SANFORD, Florida | Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:44pm EDT
(Reuters) -
Zimmerman, 28, a white Hispanic, shot Trayvon Martin, 17, in what he said was self defense during an altercation in the gated community Zimmerman was watching on February 26 in Sanford, Florida.
Now, that's the first time I've ever heard of a qualifier in describing an Hispanic.
Dusty, not one to argue with my brothers. I just try not to regurgitate the media. They only want to get better ratings. They will tell uneducated black or white Americans anything to get them to watch their crap. And no self proclaimed leader black or white is going to be my spokesperson.
DB
Understood.
I gotta get my intel from somewhere, though. I just choose to get it from someone that I know isn't in the tank for liberals.
No matter what, Zimmerman is fucked. You have people making his address public and other groups vowing to "arrest" him.
I think the part that is going to fuck him the most is when 911 said to stop following.
sf
The Reaper
03-25-2012, 18:04
I think the part that is going to fuck him the most is when 911 said to stop following.
sf
How do we know he didn't do that when he was told?
What if he did stop following and started back to his place?
I think people are assuming he continued following Martin after being told not to do so. Just because the media offered that opinion, does not mean that it is correct.
This is what happens when publishing opinion takes the place of reporting facts.
Not that it hasn't happened before.
I would like to see an impartial investigation completed, before jumping to a conclusion of Zimmerman's guilt. I do not believe that it necessarily went down the way the media has reported. Kind of like Tawana Brawley and the Duke LAX rape case.
Your first part is correct, Zimmerman is screwed regardless of the legal outcome. And law-abiding gun owners may be as well.
TR
Team Sergeant
03-25-2012, 18:32
You know if I was this guys bodyguard I'd just walk off the job...... how anyone can guard some of the left-wing wackos is beyond me. Hey Chuck, hows that no guns in NYC working for ya? Same as Chicago and Wash DC I hear....... I think I'll go purchase another gun tomorrow and a few thousand rounds of ammo.
U.S. Senate - POLITICS
Schumer calls for federal probe of 'Stand Your Ground' laws after Florida shooting
Published March 25, 2012
| FoxNews.com
Sen. Chuck Schumer is calling on the Justice Department to investigate so-called "Stand Your Ground" laws following the fatal shooting of an unarmed Florida teen.
The law, a version of which was enacted in Florida in 2005, allows for individuals to use deadly force -- even outside their home -- if they feel threatened.
Since the shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, Republican leaders have called the killing a tragedy but argue that the law in question did not actually apply to this case.
Still, Schumer wrote in a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder on Sunday that the laws themselves should be investigated.
"These laws seem to be encouraging vigilantism by allowing individuals to use deadly force as a first resort," Schumer, D-N.Y., said in a statement.
Schumer asked Holder's department to probe whether the laws "are creating more violence than they are preventing," and whether potential murders are "going unprosecuted" because of them.
He estimated that 23 states have some form of this law.
Schumer cited statistics in Florida showing that before the law was approved, the state averaged 12 justifiable homicides per year. The average subsequent to the law's enactment was 33.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/03/25/schumer-calls-for-federal-probe-stand-your-ground-laws-after-florida-shooting/?test=latestnews#ixzz1qB6t2bhA
TR,
You are correct. I've listened to the audio and thinking back, I don't recall if he backed off or not.
I would like to see an impartial investigation but, I don't think that is going to happen.
I am just saying because of the mindset of all outsiders, this kid is guilty no matter what the outcome.....again, fucked.
sf
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/black-panther-rage-10g-capture-trayvon-killer-article-1.1050370
The new Black Panther Party offered a bounty of $10,000 Saturday for the “capture” of a Florida neighborhood watch captain who killed unarmed teen Trayvon Martin.
“An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth,” leader Mikhail Muhammad said after announcing the reward for George Zimmerman at a protest in Sanford, Fla.
Muhammad called on 5,000 black men to mobilize and capture the neighborhood watch volunteer.
“If the government won’t do the job, we’ll do it,” Muhammad said, leading chants that included “freedom or death” and “justice for Trayvon.”
Muhammad said New Black Panther’s chairman, Malik Zulu Shabaz of Washington, was taking donations from black entertainers and athletes.
The group hopes to collect $1 million off the outrage by next week.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/black-panther-rage-10g-capture-trayvon-killer-article-1.1050370#ixzz1qBMFGqP2
99meters
03-25-2012, 19:37
Reaper, it is the law-abiding gun owners who feel that their gun qualifies them to play cop that screw things up. If you want to play cop have more than one tool ( baton, pepper, taser) that way u don't shoot unarmed (kids) suspects during a confrontation.
Reaper, it is the law-abiding gun owners who feel that their gun qualifies them to play cop that screw things up. If you want to play cop have more than one tool ( baton, pepper, taser) that way u don't shoot unarmed (kids) suspects during a confrontation.
"Stand your ground", The Castle Doctrine and the 2d Ammendment in general don't have anything to do with "playing cop." If we find out this guy went outside the parameters of his local ordinances, then he should be dealt with accordingly.
That doesn't call for abolishing a common-sense law that may not have been obeyed in the first place.
It also doesn't mean the New Black Militia or New Black Panther groups should be drumming up cash from rappers, ballplayers and athletes to put a bounty on the guy's head before the case has been litigated.
Peregrino
03-25-2012, 19:51
I wonder how many NBPPs and their stooges will get removed from the gene pool for attempting to collect "bounties". I think that is a circumstance that would unquestionably be covered by the "stand your ground" laws. :munchin
I wonder how many NBPPs and their stooges will get removed from the gene pool for attempting to collect "bounties". I think that is a circumstance that would unquestionably be covered by the "stand your ground" laws. :munchin
Hopefully, it won't escalate to the point to where anybody else has to get dead.
It also doesn't mean the New Black Militia or New Black Panther groups should be drumming up cash from rappers, ballplayers and athletes to put a bounty on the guy's head before the case has been litigated.
If someone takes these thugs up on their offer and serves Zimmerman's remains to the Shabazz twins, we've trended back to Mississippi Burning and the Good Ole Boys Club....only difference is the roles will have been reversed.
If it happens Obama and Holder are going to have some explaining to do about their acceptance of Vigilante Justice.
Considering the NBPP is in essence advertizing and taking in money for a potential hit, at a minimum the ought to be getting the exact same treatment as the 7 Idiots of the Hutaree.
If it happens Obama and Holder are going to have some explaining to do about their acceptance of Vigilante Justice.
You mean as opposed to their acceptance of voter intimidation at the polls? ;)
Peregrino
03-25-2012, 20:05
Hopefully, it won't escalate to the point to where anybody else has to get dead.
Unfortunately, too many bottom feeders with an agenda are fanning the flames at a time when there are enough societal problems simmering just below the boiling point that a conflagration is just waiting for a spark. I'm hoping for a fair and impartial investigation - but I'm not holding my breath. If the shooting is eventually ruled justified, a lot of people need to be prepared for race riots on an order that will make previous examples seem like non-events. MOO - YMMV
What happens if it goes to trial, everybody gets non-stop newsfeeds all summer pumping up emotions as gas prices and unemployment both spike, and a not guilty verdict is announced on a sweltering August afternoon?
U.S. Senate - POLITICS
Schumer calls for federal probe of 'Stand Your Ground' laws after Florida shooting
Sen. Chuck Schumer is calling on the Justice Department to investigate so-called "Stand Your Ground" laws following the fatal shooting of an unarmed Florida teen.
"These laws seem to be encouraging vigilantism by allowing individuals to use deadly force as a first resort," Schumer, D-N.Y., said in a statement.
Schumer asked Holder's department to probe whether the laws "are creating more violence than they are preventing," and whether potential murders are "going unprosecuted" because of them.
Schumer cited statistics in Florida showing that before the law was approved, the state averaged 12 justifiable homicides per year. The average subsequent to the law's enactment was 33.
Gee, Chuck. Can you spell "Google"?
In the 10 years before the law, Florida had 13,083 murders. In the 10 years following, there were 9510. That's a big drop.
Forming a group, giving yourself a "cool" name and starting a 5000 idiot manhunt encourages vigilantism. Not going there, Senator?
Sadly, years from now, when few of us can recall the names of the two individuals, many will still remember the great news coverage given to that bag of Skittles. WTF?
Unfortunately, too many bottom feeders with an agenda are fanning the flames at a time when there are enough societal problems simmering just below the boiling point that a conflagration is just waiting for a spark. I'm hoping for a fair and impartial investigation - but I'm not holding my breath. If the shooting is eventually ruled justified, a lot of people need to be prepared for race riots on an order that will make previous examples seem like non-events. MOO - YMMV
I remember the 1960's Riots and the local demarcation line, it was a scary no mans land for quite awhile.
Unfortunately, too many bottom feeders with an agenda are fanning the flames at a time when there are enough societal problems simmering just below the boiling point that a conflagration is just waiting for a spark. I'm hoping for a fair and impartial investigation - but I'm not holding my breath. If the shooting is eventually ruled justified, a lot of people need to be prepared for race riots on an order that will make previous examples seem like non-events. MOO - YMMV
What happens if it goes to trial, everybody gets non-stop newsfeeds all summer pumping up emotions as gas prices and unemployment both spike, and a not guilty verdict is announced on a sweltering August afternoon?
They'll do a reverse OJ.
Destrier
03-25-2012, 20:22
Reaper, it is the law-abiding gun owners who feel that their gun qualifies them to play cop that screw things up. If you want to play cop have more than one tool ( baton, pepper, taser) that way u don't shoot unarmed (kids) suspects during a confrontation.
This comment makes it sound like there is some kind of epidemic of law abiding gun owners walking around playing cop shooting children.
Every report/set of statistics that I have ever seen; indicates that law abiding gun owners that carry concealed with a permit have one of the lowest rates of criminal activity in the nation.
I also do not see how one can state that in this case, having other options available would have resulted in a different outcome. Maybe? Maybe not? I was not there.
I am still holding out for a full investigation to be revealed publicly rather than the selected sound bites from the media.
I remember the 1960's Riots and the local demarcation line, it was a scary no mans land for quite awhile.
I was in Detroit the night the riots started here, with the river on one side and many miles of Detroit in all other directions. (In a convertible, no less).
Pulled over by a cruiser, "Son, do you have any idea what's going on?" (description of events)
"Do you have any weapons?"
"Yes, sir, in containers in the trunk, unloaded, with the ammo in separate containers."
"Get them, load them, and keep them on the seat, put the top up and haul ass, and (pointing at his badge number) you can quote me on that."
500 rounds and I'm feeling low on ammo.
BigJimCalhoun
03-25-2012, 20:50
Some interesting pictures are popping up..
The original choir boy picture of TM at 12-13 yo and TM's FB pictures, that have mysteriously disappeared???..
GZ in what looks like a day-glow orange (actually looks like a red polo) county road gang work shirt and GZ's in a business suit..
Which picture would you use to get YOUR story across???
No Bias here.. NOT... :mad:
Thank you for sharing. I have not seen those pictures anywhere else.
The Reaper
03-25-2012, 20:52
Reaper, it is the law-abiding gun owners who feel that their gun qualifies them to play cop that screw things up. If you want to play cop have more than one tool ( baton, pepper, taser) that way u don't shoot unarmed (kids) suspects during a confrontation.
First, law-abiding gun owners follow the laws and do not fire their weapons when it is unwarranted. The wrongful shooting rate by CCW holders is very low.
Whether this was a justifiable shooting remains to be seen, unless you have already closed your mind to the facts.
A 17 year old male is not really a kid anymore, and is physiologically the equal to an adult, and in some cases, superior.
It remains to be seen who was the aggressor here, and whether lethal force was justified. You appear to have already decided.
I usually, but not always, carry a less than lethal weapon. The laws in most states require this of law enforcement officers, but not CCW citizens. Either you can use lethal force, or you cannot. That has nothing to do with "playing" a cop.
I will wait for the investigation to be complete before making allegations.
TR
I was in Detroit the night the riots started here, with the river on one side and many miles of Detroit in all other directions. (In a convertible, no less).
Pulled over by a cruiser, "Son, do you have any idea what's going on?" (description of events)
"Do you have any weapons?"
"Yes, sir, in containers in the trunk, unloaded, with the ammo in separate containers."
"Get them, load them, and keep them on the seat, put the top up and haul ass, and (pointing at his badge number) you can quote me on that."
500 rounds and I'm feeling low on ammo.
What I remember is my babysitter making me come in the house when the SHTF. My Dad ran the gauntlet to check on my Grandparents who lived East of the line in a largely Black neighborhood.
Weeks later we all went to visit, I was only 5-6 years old, but still I remember the .38 Snub Nose, my Mom complaining about the pistol, the cars doors were locked, the windows were up and I remember stopping at a Police check point.
My Grandparents were never in danger, the neighbors took good care of them.
And the line, it still looks like a war zone to this day.
What I remember is my babysitter making me come in the house when the SHTF. My Dad ran the gauntlet to check on my Grandparents who lived East of the line in a largely Black neighborhood.
Weeks later we all went to visit, I was only 5-6 years old, but still I remember the .38 Snub Nose, my Mom complaining about the pistol, the cars doors were locked, the windows were up and I remember stopping at a Police check point.
My Grandparents were never in danger, the neighbors took good care of them.
And the line, it still looks like a war zone to this day.In what ways were the circumstances of the Detroit riot of 1967 at all similar to the events unfolding now in Florida?
In what ways were the circumstances of the Detroit riot of 1967 at all similar to the events unfolding now in Florida?
Common denominator of pissed-off blacks.
Not to trivialize the Florida incident....but I these two stories put perspective on the subjective nature of the Media, NBPP, Rev. Al, Jesse Jackson, Holder and and Obama.
Where are on these two insidious local crimes?
Burning of Council Grove man sent to U.S. Attorney (http://cjonline.com/news/2011-10-17/burning-council-grove-man-sent-us-attorney)
Teens set kid on fire for being 'white boy' (http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-03-04/news/31122324_1_white-boy-fire-tv-station)
Common denominator of pissed-off blacks.
That's what I was going to say.
Dozer523
03-25-2012, 21:36
Common denominator of pissed-off blacks.
HEY! I was gonna say that.
Actually, I was gonna say "colored boys". But, I was gonna do it in pink.That's what I was going to say.I SHOULDA USED CAPS
In what ways were the circumstances of the Detroit riot of 1967 at all similar to the events unfolding now in Florida?
Actually I was referring to the 1968 riots.
That was similar in that a light skinned individual shot and killed a darker skinned individual.
At the time, the Blacks seemed to be upset at the death of Dr. King, I say seemed because I was only 5-6 years old and wasn't quite sure what was going on.
What really didn't make much sense was that the Blacks burned and looted their own neighborhoods....that still doesn't make sense to me.
Actually I was referring to the 1968 riots.
That was similar in that a light skinned individual shot and killed a darker skinned individual.
At the time, the Blacks seemed to be upset at the death of Dr. King, I say seemed because I was only 5-6 years old and wasn't quite sure what was going on.
What really didn't make much sense was that the Blacks burned and looted their own neighborhoods....that still doesn't make sense to me.Is forecasting the future behavior of a cohort Americans based upon the conclusions one drew as a child an intellectually sustainable practice?
In what ways were the circumstances of the Detroit riot of 1967 at all similar to the events unfolding now in Florida?
My $.02 the only similarity is the dream from MLK's speech is still a work in progress. In 2012 America should be well past this race crap. Our enemies abroad are happy to kill Americans of any color.
It starts with divisive leadership from the top, Obama is a mixed child, if the POTUS absolutely has to chirp on this issue, while his son could look like Trayvon Martin, he also has uncles whose skin tone is closer to Mr. Zimmerman's. A real leader would tell all Americans to calm down, and wait for the facts.
Ironically we see the same feelings of discrimination on both sides, whites particularly males sick of the PC double standard, and blacks who see this incident as reinforcement of that same old ugly discrimination back in the day.
I for one wish more American leaders of every race would blast the Al Sharpton's, NBPP, and Jesse Jackson's for preying upon the premature hype of this incident for political and material profit. IMHO these hate mongering types are a greater threat to Americans of color than the KKK could ever be.
We are still waiting on the facts here, Mr. Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty, if he is found guilty, plenty of Americans across racial lines, myself included, will want justice, just as mourning for Dr. King was not confined to the Black community.
Regardless of the outcome the Martin Family has lost their son, and Mr. Zimmerman has to live his days knowing he killed a 17 year old boy, even if it is ruled self defense.
This is an American Tragedy, American elites across political, racial, and religious lines need to step up and squash this fear and hate mongering, before it gets any uglier.
U.S. Senate - POLITICS
Schumer calls for federal probe of 'Stand Your Ground' laws after Florida shooting
Sen. Chuck Schumer is calling on the Justice Department to investigate so-called "Stand Your Ground" laws following the fatal shooting of an unarmed Florida teen.
"These laws seem to be encouraging vigilantism by allowing individuals to use deadly force as a first resort," Schumer, D-N.Y., said in a statement.
Schumer asked Holder's department to probe whether the laws "are creating more violence than they are preventing," and whether potential murders are "going unprosecuted" because of them.
Schumer cited statistics in Florida showing that before the law was approved, the state averaged 12 justifiable homicides per year. The average subsequent to the law's enactment was 33.
Gee, Chuck. Can you spell "Google"?
In the 10 years before the law, Florida had 13,083 murders. In the 10 years following, there were 9510. That's a big drop.
Forming a group, giving yourself a "cool" name and starting a 5000 idiot manhunt encourages vigilantism. Not going there, Senator?
Sadly, years from now, when few of us can recall the names of the two individuals, many will still remember the great news coverage given to that bag of Skittles. WTF?
The usual "guns kill, not people" BS from NY politicians. :mad: Of course NYC is sooo safe, thanks to COMPSTAT and MA(i)G, no one gets shot here.
MOO: This is going to be a very divisive issue for Obama, given the timing. Enough MSM outlets have reported Z's race correctly, though the bigger ones have been omitting or twisting it. Either way, no matter what the outcome of the investigation is, some group (or another) is going to be pissed, and look to O to fix it. He can't afford to lose either voting block (African American or Latino), and blaming the guns might cost him the "hunting" states(which he probably lost already), so O and Co needs to sweep this under the rug, and fast.
ETA: Like many previous posters, waiting on the investigation, there is too little information available to say what happened, who might be at fault and if the underlying laws needs review...
My .002
:lifterIs forecasting the future behavior of a cohort Americans based upon the conclusions one drew as a child an intellectually sustainable practice?
It is history and it has repeated itself more than once.
In what ways were the circumstances of the Detroit riot of 1967 at all similar to the events unfolding now in Florida?
In 1967, two years after the passage of the Civil Rights Act, hopes for rapid improvement for the American black had fallen to dispair (in Detroit at least). Disrespect and distrust toward "the establishment" and the police were severe. Unemployment was high, and the American dream seemed unobtainable.
The difference between that and today is that the election of Pres. Obama is the event that raised the hopes of the community, giving them further to fall as life in the community continued to slide downhill. The other factors remained the same. Only the "trigger" changed.
The usual "guns kill, not people" BS from NY politicians. :mad: Of course NYC is sooo safe, thanks to COMPSTAT and MA(i)G, no one gets shot here.
My .002
It's amazing that those types haven't heard of IEDs.
Imagine a fellow who wants to get rid of his lovers husband. There are so many ways to do that I won't even start a list. Still, if he can't do it with a gun, he simply gives up, sits at home and pouts? Yeah, right.
Iraqgunz
03-26-2012, 00:24
TS,
Don't we have a similar law in AZ? Personally the Feds can go smoke their crack pipes because this is clearly a state's rights issue and they have jack shit to say about it.
Holder- go pound some sand.
You know if I was this guys bodyguard I'd just walk off the job...... how anyone can guard some of the left-wing wackos is beyond me. Hey Chuck, hows that no guns in NYC working for ya? Same as Chicago and Wash DC I hear....... I think I'll go purchase another gun tomorrow and a few thousand rounds of ammo.
U.S. Senate - POLITICS
Schumer calls for federal probe of 'Stand Your Ground' laws after Florida shooting
Published March 25, 2012
| FoxNews.com
Sen. Chuck Schumer is calling on the Justice Department to investigate so-called "Stand Your Ground" laws following the fatal shooting of an unarmed Florida teen.
The law, a version of which was enacted in Florida in 2005, allows for individuals to use deadly force -- even outside their home -- if they feel threatened.
Since the shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, Republican leaders have called the killing a tragedy but argue that the law in question did not actually apply to this case.
Still, Schumer wrote in a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder on Sunday that the laws themselves should be investigated.
"These laws seem to be encouraging vigilantism by allowing individuals to use deadly force as a first resort," Schumer, D-N.Y., said in a statement.
Schumer asked Holder's department to probe whether the laws "are creating more violence than they are preventing," and whether potential murders are "going unprosecuted" because of them.
He estimated that 23 states have some form of this law.
Schumer cited statistics in Florida showing that before the law was approved, the state averaged 12 justifiable homicides per year. The average subsequent to the law's enactment was 33.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/03/25/schumer-calls-for-federal-probe-stand-your-ground-laws-after-florida-shooting/?test=latestnews#ixzz1qB6t2bhA
Iraqgunz
03-26-2012, 00:41
A narrative from Sanford PD's initial response is available on the net. From what I read it would seem as if Zimmerman did have wounds about the face and head and that his back was wet and covered in grass as if he had been on his back.
Iraqgunz
03-26-2012, 01:30
Some interesting reading.
http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/was-trayvon-martin-a-drug-dealer
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Zimmerman_Martin_shooting.pdf
I'm awaiting the Grand Jury's findings - it meets to hear the case on 10 April - it's going to be a long couple of weeks of political, and social and mass media driven drivel until then...
Richard :munchin
I'm awaiting the Grand Jury's findings - it meets to hear the case on 10 April - it's going to be a long couple of weeks of political, and social and mass media driven drivel until then...
Richard :munchin
Don't you love the internet.. Everyone turns into a Shirley Holmes..
http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/was-trayvon-martin-a-drug-dealer
The Grand Jury can't get here fast enough...
:munchin
A narrative from Sanford PD's initial response is available on the net. From what I read it would seem as if Zimmerman did have wounds about the face and head and that his back was wet and covered in grass as if he had been on his back.
That would seem logical, but we'll have to wait for the experts and a jury to decide if the injuries are consistent with being attacked. It is possible he could have run into and/or fell into something and received the trauma vaguely described by the press.
Is forecasting the future behavior of a cohort Americans based upon the conclusions one drew as a child an intellectually sustainable practice?
If you poked a yellowjacket nest as a kid and got your ass stung, was that intellectually sustainable?
Dohhunter
03-26-2012, 09:06
See post #34 re: BO and his desire to increase his brood.
Badger52
03-26-2012, 09:37
If you poked a yellowjacket nest as a kid and got your ass stung, was that intellectually sustainable?Candidate for most quotable sigline.
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd here's round two: Obama: "If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon"
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd let's see now - today is Monday and that article was dated Friday.
Did you ever wonder, "Hmmm...why hasn't somebody already posted the POTUS' sentiments here? That might be a pretty hot topic for debate in this issue. Strange."
And then did a search before posting...because if you had, you would have found post #34 of this thread and thought, "Hmmm...glad I did a search before I posted that bit of late news. That could have been embarrassing." :rolleyes:
Richard :munchin
Dohhunter
03-26-2012, 10:15
Ugh. I stand corrected. Round three?
DJ Urbanovsky
03-26-2012, 10:44
This is how stupid most politicians are. What kind of idiot invalidates his own argument? More people who deserve to get shot getting shot seems like a positive thing to me.
Schumer cited statistics in Florida showing that before the law was approved, the state averaged 12 justifiable homicides per year. The average subsequent to the law's enactment was 33.[/I]
This is how stupid most politicians are. What kind of idiot invalidates his own argument? More people who deserve to get shot getting shot seems like a positive thing to me.
"Justifiable"
That word means different things to different people, i.e. I, personally, feel the impeachment of BJ Clinton was "justifiable", while he considered getting a BJ in the Oval Office to be so.
It's a symptom of the disease of liberalism, and Schumer has a tertiary case of it.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/trayvon-martin/cracker-tshirt-759832
Click for photo.
Classy! :D
Kyobanim
03-26-2012, 12:13
Police: Zimmerman says Trayvon decked him with one blow, then began hammering his head
12:18 p.m. EST, March 26, 2012|
By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel
With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times, leaving him bloody and battered, authorities have revealed to the Orlando Sentinel.
That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say.
Zimmerman has not spoken publicly about what happened, but that night, Feb. 26, and in later meetings he described and re-enacted for police what he says happened.
In his version of events, he had turned around and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from behind, the two exchanged words then Trayvon punched him in the nose, sending him to the ground, and began beating him.
Zimmerman told police he shot the teenager in self-defense.
Civil rights leaders and thousands of others have demanded Zimmerman's arrest, calling Trayvon a victim of racial profiling and Zimmerman a vigilante.
Trayvon was an unarmed black teenager who had committed no crime, they say, who was gunned down while walking back from a 7-Eleven with nothing more sinister than a package of Skittles and can of Arizona iced tea.
Supporters have held rallies in Sanford, Miami, New York and Tallahassee, calling the case a tragic miscarriage of injustice.
Activist Al Sharpton headlined a rally in Sanford Thursday that drew an estimated 8,000 people. The Rev. Jesse Jackson yesterday spoke at an Eatonville church, where he called Trayvon a martyr.
Another rally is scheduled for 4 p.m. today in Sanford.
Zimmerman has gone into hiding. A fringe group, the New Black Panthers, have offered a $10,000 reward for his capture.
Police have been reluctant to provided details about all their evidence, but this is what they've disclosed to the Sentinel:
Zimmerman was on his way to the grocery store when he spotted Trayvon walking through his gated community.
Trayvon was visiting his father's fiancée, who lived there. He had been suspended from school in Miami after being found with an empty marijuana baggie. Miami schools have a zero-tolerance policy for drug possession.
Zimmerman called police and reported a suspicious person, describing Trayvon as black, acting strangely and perhaps on drugs.
Zimmerman got out of his SUV to follow Trayvon on foot. When a dispatch employee asked Zimmerman if he was following the 17-year-old, Zimmerman said yes. The dispatcher told Zimmerman he did not need to do that.
There is about a one-minute gap during which police say they're not sure what happened.
Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police.
Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose.
Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.
Zimmerman began yelling for help.
Several witnesses heard those cries, and there's been a dispute about from whom they came: Zimmerman or Trayvon.
Lawyers for Trayvon's family say it was Trayvon, but police say their evidence indicates it was Zimmerman.
One witnesses, who has since talked to local television news reporters, told police he saw Zimmerman on the ground with Trayvon on top, pounding him and was unequivocal that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help.
Zimmerman then shot Trayvon once in the chest from very close range, according to authorities.
When police arrived less than two minutes later, Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose, had a swollen lip and had bloody lacerations to the back of his head.
Paramedics gave him first aid, but he said no to going to the hospital. He got medical care the next day.
The Department of Justice last week opened a civil rights investigation into what happened, and Gov. Rick Scott appointed a special prosecutor.
It's not clear whether the special prosecutor, Angela Corey, the state attorney for Duval, Clay and Nassau counties, will have Zimmerman arrested, announce that there's not enough evidence to file a manslaughter charge or present evidence to a grand jury.
Activist Al Sharpton headlined a rally in Sanford Thursday that drew an estimated 8,000 people. The Rev. Jesse Jackson yesterday spoke at an Eatonville church, where he called Trayvon a martyr.
See, the Justice Bros have already tried the guy.
Team Sergeant
03-26-2012, 12:49
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/trayvon-martin/cracker-tshirt-759832
Click for photo.
Classy! :D
I know that guy wearing the tee-shirt, he's in my advanced physics class.
DJ Urbanovsky
03-26-2012, 12:51
What a douchebag.
That is racism.
I guess nobody bothered to tell him that Zimmerman is Hispanic...
You know what would happen if I (or some other white guy) had shirts made with Martin's "thug" pics emblazoned on them along with a similarly racially charged epithet?
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/trayvon-martin/cracker-tshirt-759832
Click for photo.
Classy! :D
DJ Urbanovsky
03-26-2012, 12:53
You just made me choke on my coffee.
I know that guy wearing the tee-shirt, he's in my advanced physics class.
Destrier
03-26-2012, 12:55
So I suppose a class explaining the physic's of 9mm vs a hoodie would not be in good taste or PC.
Badger52
03-26-2012, 13:05
See, the Justice Bros have already tried the guy.I thought they made fuel additives.
This from the same smokinggun site. (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/trayvon-trademark?page=0)
Mother Seeks Trayvon Martin Trademarks
Records: Late teenager's kin filed pair of applications last week
MARCH 26--The mother of Trayvon Martin has filed two applications to secure trademarks containing her late son’s name, records show.
Sabrina Fulton is seeking marks for the phrases “I Am Trayvon” and “Justice for Trayvon,” according to filings made last week with the United States Patent and Trademark Office. In both instances, Fulton is seeking the trademarks for use on “Digital materials, namely, CDs and DVDs featuring Trayvon Martin,” and other products.
The March 21 USPTO applications, each of which cost $325, were filed by an Orlando, Florida law firm representing Fulton.
That didn't take long.
If you poked a yellowjacket nest as a kid and got your ass stung, was that intellectually sustainable?
Candidate for most quotable sigline.So now we're comparing the behavior of human beings to insects.
Is it 26 March 1912 or 26 March 2012?
This is getting HOT HOT HOT...
There is also fairly direct evidence that Trayvon may have been a small-time drug-dealer.
On Facebook on February 5th, his friend posts on his wall asking to talk business. Trayvon says he doesn’t have a phone available and his friend says,
“Damn were u at a nigga needa plant.”
Dohhunter
03-26-2012, 13:40
I thought they made fuel additives.
This from the same smokinggun site. (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/trayvon-trademark?page=0)
That didn't take long.
Opportunity knocks with a Bang.
So now we're comparing the behavior of human beings to insects.
Meh - you know what he meant.
Iraqgunz
03-26-2012, 13:49
What's incredible is how the media has handled this case. It's almost as if they want more violence to flare up so they have more to report.
This is getting HOT HOT HOT...
Destrier
03-26-2012, 13:56
Never waste a disaster. This is simply stirring up the POTUS voter base.
So now we're comparing the behavior of human beings to insects.
Is it 26 March 1912 or 26 March 2012?
I'm doing that. You're still just typing bullshit.
Snobbishly piecing whole chunks of dry and historical, easy-to-link-to prose isn't as quickly comprehended by normal humans as is an allegorical comparison has proven to be over time, Mr. Wizard; I see that it has failed to hit the mark with you, but, rather, to have intensified your haughty airiness.
I'll use humans, then.
"It's like f.cking with a Green Beret to the point where you got the attention of him and the rest of his Team."
Understand that?
The media is pumping this up to attack the recent "stand your ground" laws passed many states. Jesse is attacking the law too.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-03-25/jackson-seeks-voter-drive-against-florida-shooting-law
I thought they made fuel additives.
This from the same smokinggun site. (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/trayvon-trademark?page=0)
That didn't take long.
http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/former-naacp-leader-accuses-sharpton-and-jackson-of-exploiting-trayvon-martin/
Former NAACP leader C.L. Bryant is accusing Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton of “exploiting” the Trayvon Martin tragedy to “racially divide this country.”
“His family should be outraged at the fact that they’re using this child as the bait to inflame racial passions,” Rev. C.L. Bryant said in a Monday interview with The Daily Caller.
Snip
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/former-naacp-leader-accuses-sharpton-and-jackson-of-exploiting-trayvon-martin/#ixzz1qG2Cf7gM
Yeah, well his family's cashing in with a straight face, evidently.
I'm doing that. You're still just typing bullshit.
Snobbishly piecing whole chunks of dry and historical, easy-to-link-to prose isn't as quickly comprehended by normal humans as is an allegorical comparison has proven to be over time, Mr. Wizard; I see that it has failed to hit the mark with you, but, rather, to have intensified your haughty airiness.
I'll use humans, then.
"It's like f.cking with a Green Beret to the point where you got the attention of him and the rest of his Team."
Understand that?Thank you for the clarification, QP Dusty.
Iraqgunz
03-26-2012, 15:09
Fuck Jesse, Al, Barack and all the other true racists. I would love to know exactly how they think the AG can tell a state that they cannot have such a law on the books?
It would be like saying a state cannot have a CCW law. I am pretty sure that Arizona and a few other states will tell them to pound sand in their ass.
The media is pumping this up to attack the recent "stand your ground" laws passed many states. Jesse is attacking the law too.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-03-25/jackson-seeks-voter-drive-against-florida-shooting-law
Personally, I am astounded by the preoccupation of so many wanting to limitlessly conjecture to the point of absurdity with this.
Dum excusare credis, accusas.
Richard :munchin
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/trayvon-martin-trademarks-769123
MARCH 26--The mother of Trayvon Martin has filed two applications to secure trademarks containing her late son’s name, records show.
Sabrina Fulton is seeking marks for the phrases “I Am Trayvon” and “Justice for Trayvon,” according to filings made last week with the United States Patent and Trademark Office. In both instances, Fulton is seeking the trademarks for use on “Digital materials, namely, CDs and DVDs featuring Trayvon Martin,” and other products.
:eek::mad::rolleyes:
only in America folks...only in America...
Personally, I am astounded by the preoccupation of so many wanting to limitlessly conjecture to the point of absurdity with this.
Dum excusare credis, accusas.
Richard :munchin
What astounds me is the fact that two militant bands of angry citizens have incited vigilantism over this, before the courts have been involved, and the national leaders are mum.
Liberals either a: just want it to go away before they have to get involved, or b: have already judged Zimmerman.
It's like a Duke Lacrosse re-run, so far.
This will be around for a while, Richard.
Thank you for the clarification, QP Dusty.
You're welcome. Don't go away mad.
99meters
03-26-2012, 16:27
First, law-abiding gun owners follow the laws and do not fire their weapons when it is unwarranted. The wrongful shooting rate by CCW holders is very low.
Whether this was a justifiable shooting remains to be seen, unless you have already closed your mind to the facts.
A 17 year old male is not really a kid anymore, and is physiologically the equal to an adult, and in some cases, superior.
It remains to be seen who was the aggressor here, and whether lethal force was justified. You appear to have already decided.
I usually, but not always, carry a less than lethal weapon. The laws in most states require this of law enforcement officers, but not CCW citizens. Either you can use lethal force, or you cannot. That has nothing to do with "playing" a cop.
I will wait for the investigation to be complete before making allegations.
TR
When you get out of your truck and decide to pursue a suspicious person you are playing cop. I don't care if the guy is white or hispanic, or if the kid is black. This guy brought a world of hurt on himself and some family by being stupid.
It's a gated community..... Get a good discription, call the cops, explain why he or his activity is suspicious and stay the hell in your truck. Simple!
If you poked a yellowjacket nest as a kid and got your ass stung, was that intellectually sustainable?
I shall respectfully place that on my bookshelf between the works of Browning and Keats.
Classic :D
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/trayvon-martin/cracker-tshirt-759832
Click for photo.
Classy! :D
It will be interesting to see if these T-Shirts are allowed to worn at schools.
.........-only in America folks...only in America...
...........Better her than for the family to wake up some morning and see the name registered to some fly by night organization raking in thousands of dollars using TM's name.
This is America after all.
When you get out of your truck and decide to pursue a suspicious person you are playing cop. I don't care if the guy is white or hispanic, or if the kid is black. This guy brought a world of hurt on himself and some family by being stupid.
It's a gated community..... Get a good discription, call the cops, explain why he or his activity is suspicious and stay the hell in your truck. Simple!
If you have time, would you mind describing the entire incident in detail, so that we'll be as smart as you obviously are on the subject?
You were evidently on site, and witnessed the whole thing unfold...
The Reaper
03-26-2012, 17:15
When you get out of your truck and decide to pursue a suspicious person you are playing cop. I don't care if the guy is white or hispanic, or if the kid is black. This guy brought a world of hurt on himself and some family by being stupid.
It's a gated community..... Get a good discription, call the cops, explain why he or his activity is suspicious and stay the hell in your truck. Simple!
Silly me.
I thought that the standard was to let the LEOs do the investigation and the case to be heard in court before deciding who is guilty of what.
I guess you already have all of the facts and a different concept of justice.
TR
Team Sergeant
03-26-2012, 17:56
When you get out of your truck and decide to pursue a suspicious person you are playing cop. I don't care if the guy is white or hispanic, or if the kid is black. This guy brought a world of hurt on himself and some family by being stupid.
It's a gated community..... Get a good discription, call the cops, explain why he or his activity is suspicious and stay the hell in your truck. Simple!
I'll remember your words the next time a young 22 y/o mother is being stabbed to death in front of her 2 year old. (Happened last night 10 miles from where I live (http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/crime/woman-found-stabbed-to-death-03262012)) Or the next time I watch a heavily armed individual step from his vehicle sporting an assault rifle heading into an elementary school.
It's a good thing most of "us" will not heed your words of warning. You see we've already made the decision and drawn that line in the sand, decades ago. I don't carry a weapon just for my personal defense, that would be very shallow of me. I carry because I know how long it takes for the police to arrive at a situation and how long it takes for them to make their decision to take action.
Chew on that for a while.
And yeah, I'm waiting for a court of law to decide this case, not the media or the nuts on either side of the issue.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/black-panther-rage-10g-capture-trayvon-killer-article-1.1050370
The new Black Panther Party offered a bounty of $10,000 Saturday for the “capture” of a Florida neighborhood watch captain who killed unarmed teen Trayvon Martin.
“An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth,” leader Mikhail Muhammad said after announcing the reward for George Zimmerman at a protest in Sanford, Fla.
Muhammad called on 5,000 black men to mobilize and capture the neighborhood watch volunteer.
“If the government won’t do the job, we’ll do it,” Muhammad said, leading chants that included “freedom or death” and “justice for Trayvon.”
Muhammad said New Black Panther’s chairman, Malik Zulu Shabaz of Washington, was taking donations from black entertainers and athletes.
The group hopes to collect $1 million off the outrage by next week.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/black-panther-rage-10g-capture-trayvon-killer-article-1.1050370#ixzz1qBMFGqP2Reminds me of that song..."money, Money, MONEY!":eek:
99meters
03-26-2012, 20:13
Silly me.
I thought that the standard was to let the LEOs do the investigation and the case to be heard in court before deciding who is guilty of what.
I guess you already have all of the facts and a different concept of justice.
TR
You are very right Sir, that is the standard. He should have taken your advice and let LEOs do the investigation. You are doing what you are accusing me of; jumping to conclusions. I never stated I believe he was guilty nor did I get into the race issue, my only opinion was that his actions were foolish.
If the kid was stabbing his girlfriend, by all means get out of your truck and shoot him in the head. Any real man would/ should do this if he has the means. However, jumping out your truck to pursue some suspicious person through your neighborhood is just plain stupid in my book.
I consider my self a very patriotic person, but I have no intensions of buying a Larue and go hunting terrorist in Afghan. Because i may loose contact with the terrorist I'm pursuing, have him double back and confront me at my truck, punch me in the nose and knock me to ground with one blow, then bash my head into the pavement.
Sometimes you have to know when to leave shit alone.
.
Sometimes you have to know when to leave shit alone.
.
Amen. :munchin
By Frances Robles
frobles@MiamiHerald.com
SANFORD -- As thousands of people gathered here to demand an arrest in the Trayvon Martin case, a more complicated portrait began to emerge of a teenager whose problems at school ranged from getting spotted defacing lockers to getting caught with a marijuana baggie and women’s jewelry.
The Miami Gardens teen who has become a national symbol of racial injustice was suspended three times, and had a spotty school record that his family’s attorneys say is irrelevant to the facts that led up to his being gunned down on Feb. 26.
In October, a school police investigator said he saw Trayvon on the school surveillance camera in an unauthorized area “hiding and being suspicious.” Then he said he saw Trayvon mark up a door with “W.T.F” — an acronym for “what the f---.” The officer said he found Trayvon the next day and went through his book bag in search of the graffiti marker.
Instead the officer reported he found women’s jewelry and a screwdriver that he described as a “burglary tool,” according to a Miami-Dade Schools Police report obtained by The Miami Herald. Word of the incident came as the family’s lawyer acknowledged that the boy was suspended in February for getting caught with an empty bag with traces of marijuana, which he called “irrelevant” and an attempt to demonize a victim.
Trayvon’s backpack contained 12 pieces of jewelry, in addition to a watch and a large flathead screwdriver, according to the report, which described silver wedding bands and earrings with diamonds.
Trayvon was asked if the jewelry belonged to his family or a girlfriend.
“Martin replied it’s not mine. A friend gave it to me,” he responded, according to the report. Trayvon declined to name the friend.
Trayvon was not disciplined because of the discovery, but was instead suspended for graffiti, according to the report. School police impounded the jewelry and sent photos of the items to detectives at Miami-Dade police for further investigation.
A lawyer for the dead teen’s family acknowledged Trayvon had been suspended for graffiti, but said the family knew nothing about the jewelry and the screwdriver.
“It’s completely irrelevant to what happened Feb. 26,” said attorney Benjamin Crump. “They never heard this, and don’t believe it’s true. If it were true, why wouldn’t they call the parents? Why wasn’t he arrested?”
Trayvon, who was a junior at Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School, had never been arrested, police and the family have said.
“We think everybody is trying to demonize him,” Crump said.
No evidence ever surfaced that the jewelry was stolen.
“Martin was suspended, warned and dismissed for the graffiti,” according to the report prepared by schools police.
That suspension was followed four months later by another one in February, in which Trayvon was caught with an empty plastic bag with traces of marijuana in it. A schools police report obtained by The Miami Herald specifies two items: a bag with marijuana residue and a “marijuana pipe.”
The punishment was the third for the teen. On Monday, the family also said Trayvon had earlier been suspended for tardiness and truancy.
Trayvon was shot to death Feb. 26 while serving out his suspension in Sanford, where his father’s girlfriend lives. A neighborhood watch volunteer called the police to say he saw someone in a hoodie who looked high on drugs, and was suspicious because he walked too slowly in the rain. The unarmed teenager carried Skittles and iced tea, and was talking to his girlfriend on the phone, records show.
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html#disqus_thread#storylink=cpy#storylink =cpy
Peregrino
03-26-2012, 20:38
Sometimes you have to know when to leave shit alone.
.
Having lived in a neighborhood where a neighborhood watch made the difference between residents cowering in their homes and thugs finding easier prey elsewhere, sometimes you have to stand up and be counted. Especially when there may (or may not - especially at shift change) be one cop on your end of the county and his backup is 45+ minutes away. Dirtbags love passive sheep. That's why some states are exercising the moral courage to pass CCW and "stand your ground" laws. You're entitled to your opinions - that is until you're telling me criminals have more rights than honest citizens and I'm supposed to accept being a victim.
I don't own a weapon, but I sure as hell wouldn't be waiting around in a vehicle while figuring out what it is I was going to do next. Especially if someone elses life was in danger. If I am the one on the ground at the end of the day, then so be it. I know where that line is and I will gladly cross it, 911 or no 911.
Saw this picture floating around the net.
Kinda like night and day, Hummmm .....
A voice of reason from the Black community on the Trayvan Martin case topic....or at least I think so.
Excerpted from DailyCaller (http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/former-naacp-leader-accuses-sharpton-and-jackson-of-exploiting-trayvon-martin/) - Former NAACP leader C.L. Bryant is accusing Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton of “exploiting” the Trayvon Martin tragedy to “racially divide this country.”
“His family should be outraged at the fact that they’re using this child as the bait to inflame racial passions,” Rev. C.L. Bryant said in a Monday interview with The Daily Caller.
The conservative black pastor who was once the chapter president of the Garland, Texas NAACP called Jackson and Sharpton “race hustlers” and said they are “acting as though they are buzzards circling the carcass of this young boy.”
Jackson, for example, recently said Martin’s death shows how “blacks are under attack” and “targeting, arresting, convicting blacks and ultimately killing us is big business. George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch captain, killed Martin, a 17-year-old black man who was unarmed at the time of his death, last month. Zimmerman has claimed to have shot Martin in self-defense and has not been charged with a crime.
But Bryant, who explores the topic of black-on-black crime in his new film “Runaway Slave,” said people like Jackson and Sharpton are being misleading to suggest there is an epidemic of “white men killing black young men.”
“The epidemic is truly black on black crime,” Bryant said. “The greatest danger to the lives of young black men are young black men.” Bryant said he wishes civil rights leaders were protesting those problems.
http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/former-naacp-leader-accuses-sharpton-and-jackson-of-exploiting-trayvon-martin/
charlietwo
03-26-2012, 22:21
Saw this picture floating around the net.
Kinda like night and day, Hummmm .....
Just an FYI-- that picture in the lower right is of another Trayvon Martin, not the individual in question.
www.patdollard.com has some good info, and has actually done the investigative journalism where the rest of the media has woefully failed.
Also, just posted on that site: http://patdollard.com/2012/03/the-white-man-is-a-murderer-anderson-cooper-and-new-black-panthers-leader-battle-over-groups-vow-to-kill-zimmerman/
The New Black Panther Party seems to be itching for a race war. I was not alive during the 60's, so I haven't seen stuff like this on the big picture before in the US. A question to you seasoned veterans (read: old people ;)) out there: Was it this bad back in the 60s?
1stindoor
03-26-2012, 22:25
Saw this picture floating around the net.
Kinda like night and day, Hummmm .....
Or in this case kinda like today...and yesterday...about 7 pages back.
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=441582&postcount=70
Or in this case kinda like today...and yesterday...about 7 pages back.
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=441582&postcount=70
D'oh. My bad. Skipped right over that.
Thanks for the correction.
Iraqgunz
03-26-2012, 23:41
Interesting how more and more information is coming out about the Angel Martin. The discovery in the bag if true is very interesting indeed. Especially since he declined to provide any real answers.
A question to you seasoned veterans (read: old people ;)) out there:
Was it this bad back in the 60s?
Much worse if you count bodies in the morgue, but the circumstances were much different.
During the 1965-65 riots the cause, although similar, was very different.
1)there was pervasive bigotry in parts of America, including the LEO organizations
2)LEO's had more liberties when it came to physical confrontations with non-LEO's
3)normal Americans did not have access to MSM like today
Read these references. The common factor was a confrontation with a LEO that went bad.
ref:
http://www.pbs.org/hueypnewton/times/times_watts.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watts_Riots
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_Philadelphia_race_riot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlem_Riot_of_1964
Although Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, & the NBPP want you to believe that they are similar situations and will continue to encourage riots.
AND the msm in their incessant want for viewership ratings seem to encourage the dissidents.
Most Americans are less bigoted, are more educated to ethic diversity, less whipped up by the MSM, and tend to want more facts before passing judgment.
I say Most Americans because there will always be bigots. Street organizers like BHO, Jesse, Al, & NBPP can not exist if they didn't have some portion of the population oppressed.
They do that by harping the sheeple/welfare mantra. Keeping their support base dependent on more of the endless "I want" .
Net Net: Do the community organizers want AND NEED to compare today to the 60t's riots YES,, will they get it,, I think not.
American has come to far to fall back into that mind set.
I also recognize that disasters like Katrina in NO will happen and if the winds of chaos are active,, we can regress overnight.
:munchin
Keeping their support base dependent on more of the endless "I want" .
That's the gist of it. Excellent post, Bro.
You are very right Sir, that is the standard. He should have taken your advice and let LEOs do the investigation. You are doing what you are accusing me of; jumping to conclusions. I never stated I believe he was guilty nor did I get into the race issue, my only opinion was that his actions were foolish.
If the kid was stabbing his girlfriend, by all means get out of your truck and shoot him in the head. Any real man would/ should do this if he has the means. However, jumping out your truck to pursue some suspicious person through your neighborhood is just plain stupid in my book.
I consider my self a very patriotic person, but I have no intensions of buying a Larue and go hunting terrorist in Afghan. Because i may loose contact with the terrorist I'm pursuing, have him double back and confront me at my truck, punch me in the nose and knock me to ground with one blow, then bash my head into the pavement.
Sometimes you have to know when to leave shit alone.
.
You're the one jumping to conclusions. We have tried to intimate that nobody should judge Zimmerman's actions until the evidence is presented in a court of law; you have already determined him to be a fool.
Incidentally, your "Larue and go hunting terrorist(s) in Afghan" analogy went right under my head.
Dohhunter
03-27-2012, 06:18
You are very right Sir, that is the standard. He should have taken your advice and let LEOs do the investigation. You are doing what you are accusing me of; jumping to conclusions. I never stated I believe he was guilty nor did I get into the race issue, my only opinion was that his actions were foolish.
If the kid was stabbing his girlfriend, by all means get out of your truck and shoot him in the head. Any real man would/ should do this if he has the means. However, jumping out your truck to pursue some suspicious person through your neighborhood is just plain stupid in my book.
I consider my self a very patriotic person, but I have no intensions of buying a Larue and go hunting terrorist in Afghan. Because i may loose contact with the terrorist I'm pursuing, have him double back and confront me at my truck, punch me in the nose and knock me to ground with one blow, then bash my head into the pavement.
Sometimes you have to know when to leave shit alone.
.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I'm pretty sure you weren't hiding in the bushes jerking off to one of the neighbours, so I'd refrain from making even such a simple assumption as "jumping out of your truck to pursue some suspicious person through your neighborhood".
In which case all you are using for your argument is conjecture (and don't get me wrong, both sides of the issue are doing this).
The law will be the final say on this one.....now whether that course of events continues on the path of racial and political motivation remains to be seen. I know it would, and is in a separate case (google: Ian Thompson, Port Colbourne) up here.
The New Black Panther Party seems to be itching for a race war. I was not alive during the 60's, so I haven't seen stuff like this on the big picture before in the US. A question to you seasoned veterans (read: old people ;)) out there: Was it this bad back in the 60s?
A short write up on the New Black Panthers from that bastion of conservatism the Southern Poverty Law Center.
New Black Panther Party
Founded:**1989
Location:**Washington, D.C.
Ideology:**Black Separatist
The New Black Panther Party is a virulently racist and anti-Semitic organization whose leaders have encouraged violence against whites, Jews and law enforcement officers. Founded in Dallas, the group today is especially active on the East Coast, from Boston to Jacksonville, Fla. The group portrays itself as a militant, modern-day expression of the black power movement (it frequently engages in armed protests of alleged police brutality and the like), but principals of the original Black Panther Party of the 1960s and 1970s— a militant, but non-racist, left-wing organization — have rejected the new Panthers as a "black racist hate group" and contested their hijacking of the Panther name and symbol.
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/new-black-panther-party
A short write up on the New Black Panthers from that bastion of conservatism the Southern Poverty Law Center.
New Black Panther Party
Founded:**1989
Location:**Washington, D.C.
Ideology:**Black Separatist
The New Black Panther Party is a virulently racist and anti-Semitic organization whose leaders have encouraged violence against whites, Jews and law enforcement officers. Founded in Dallas, the group today is especially active on the East Coast, from Boston to Jacksonville, Fla. The group portrays itself as a militant, modern-day expression of the black power movement (it frequently engages in armed protests of alleged police brutality and the like), but principals of the original Black Panther Party of the 1960s and 1970s— a militant, but non-racist, left-wing organization — have rejected the new Panthers as a "black racist hate group" and contested their hijacking of the Panther name and symbol.
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/new-black-panther-party
lol You know it's bad when you're even too kooky for the kooks.
Just an FYI-- that picture in the lower right is of another Trayvon Martin, not the individual in question.
www.patdollard.com has some good info, and has actually done the investigative journalism where the rest of the media has woefully failed.
Also, just posted on that site: http://patdollard.com/2012/03/the-white-man-is-a-murderer-anderson-cooper-and-new-black-panthers-leader-battle-over-groups-vow-to-kill-zimmerman/
The New Black Panther Party seems to be itching for a race war. I was not alive during the 60's, so I haven't seen stuff like this on the big picture before in the US. A question to you seasoned veterans (read: old people ;)) out there: Was it this bad back in the 60s?
I wouldn't call it a race War back in the 60's. It was a Civil Rights movement. Not old enough, But I would of been in the streets rioting right along with them.
I wouldn't call it a race War back in the 60's. It was a Civil Rights movement. Not old enough, But I would of been in the streets rioting right along with them.
Yeah, and it was fifty f.cking years ago.
The Country elected a black President. How much farther can it advance toward equality?
The Left uses the black race as a political tool. Ask Guy. That's what's going on, and the White House is complicit.
The group hopes to collect $1 million off the outrage by next week.
As always, it's all about the money.
Dohhunter
03-27-2012, 09:05
So on a completely unrelated note, who's going after the "New" Panthers for being a terroristic*, fear mongering, racially motivated hate group?
*not a word
Yeah, and it was fifty f.cking years ago.Where does the past end and the present begin?
With all due respect, QP Dusty, earlier in this thread, I raised a similar point when another member of this BB made a comparison of events in the 1960s to what is happening today. At that time, you offered a significantly different interpretation of the past's relationship to the present than you are now.
The Country elected a black President. How much farther can it advance toward equality?How does one define equality? Is the complex issue of race relations primarily about national electoral politics and the skin color of elected and appointed leaders?
Or is it, as a member of this BB whom I respect put it, "all about the money?"
Or is it a matrix of factors--including matters of politics, policy, economics, the interplay of popular historical memory with individual experiences, contingency, and cultural sensibilities--that shapes our discussion of the encounter between Mr. Zimmerman and Mr. Martin?
Where does the past end and the present begin?
With all due respect, QP Dusty, earlier in this thread, I raised a similar point when another member of this BB made a comparison of events in the 1960s to what is happening today. At that time, you offered a significantly different interpretation of the past's relationship to the present than you are now.
How does one define equality? Is the complex issue of race relations primarily about national electoral politics and the skin color of elected and appointed leaders?
Or is it, as a member of this BB whom I respect put it, "all about the money?"
Or is it a matrix of factors--including matters of politics, policy, economics, the interplay of popular historical memory with individual experiences, contingency, and cultural sensibilities--that shapes our discussion of the encounter between Mr. Zimmerman and Mr. Martin?
Yes, I offered a different interpretation which was entirely applicable to the context.
Equality is defined in this instance as blacks having access to the same rights and opportunities as whites. Show me one contemporary instance where this isn't true.
Answer this honestly: You think the National leadership would get involved if I set up a New White Militia, posting a $10K reward for the capture of any of these perpetrators of this crime?
http://www.knoxnews.com/news/news/local/channon-christian-christopher-newsom-murders/
The Left uses the black race as a political tool. That's what's going on, and the White House is complicit.
So true and the more you point that out the more the left
obfuscates the issue.
Misdirection and confusion is certainly in their play book.
Stargazer
03-27-2012, 10:10
How does one define equality? Is the complex issue of race relations primarily about national electoral politics and the skin color of elected and appointed leaders?
Or is it, as a member of this BB whom I respect put it, "all about the money?"
Or is it a matrix of factors--including matters of politics, policy, economics, the interplay of popular historical memory with individual experiences, contingency, and cultural sensibilities--that shapes our discussion of the encounter between Mr. Zimmerman and Mr. Martin?
How do you define equality? It's a simple word to understand as defined in a dictionary, but how does it 'equate' to individual human beings? What is the common denominator?
All the factors you listed are an illusion... you cannot legislate, redistribute or force individuals to accept others as their 'equal'. All that is created or forged is divisiveness.
MOO, all that is 'equal' is one is born thereby given life. If they are fortunate enough to be born into a country where they are free, they can pursue what makes them happy. I believe the words of those in the past were carefully crafted by individuals who struggled with the same question and were all to familiar with the problems that occur when the right of free will is taken from individuals and given to others in their interest such as governments / religion...
charlietwo
03-27-2012, 10:45
Net Net: Do the community organizers want AND NEED to compare today to the 60t's riots YES,, will they get it,, I think not.
American has come to far to fall back into that mind set.
I also recognize that disasters like Katrina in NO will happen and if the winds of chaos are active,, we can regress overnight.
:munchin
Many thanks, JJ. Great post.
I must admit, I feel like this entire story was manipulated, packaged, and distributed to create a distraction. SCOTUS is currently looking at the ObamaCare. It's a very 'Alinsky-ite' tactic...
Keep buying ammo, folks. :munchin
Badger52
03-27-2012, 11:03
I wouldn't call it a race War back in the 60's. It was a Civil Rights movement. Not old enough, But I would of been in the streets rioting right along with them.You might wish to check into the facts behind what became known in '65 as the Watts riots. While there was a litany of other socio-economic issues to be addressed* it frankly wouldn't have likely escalated if the young man's mom hadn't intervened while he was being peacably arrested for drunk driving (and admitted it) - so mom got hooked up as well after she jumped on the officer and began beating his head. Not very civil-rightish - just bad behavior but civil rights sure plays good as an excuse, then and now. The same types of groups we see today shortly offered bounties on the CHP officer involved. 34 dead, 25 of them black. I suppose war depends on which end of the Molatov cocktail you're on.
I do distinctly remember the smoke visible above the Santa Monica hills and that M2AP was $5/100, a bit more if already in bandos.
* And under the 'reign' of a "progressive" libtard governor...
ZonieDiver
03-27-2012, 11:16
* And under the 'reign' of a "progressive" libtard governor...
For those of us outside California, you must be a bit more specific. There've been SOOO many of those.:D
http://www.wtam.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=104707&article=9954327&sa=U&ei=7NdxT-jNDOfu0gHp7JnaAQ&ved=0CCIQqQIwAA&usg=AFQjCNFB2yrf6KGVLmVFv7gOZ_817Dw1AA
Badger52
03-27-2012, 12:18
For those of us outside California, you must be a bit more specific. There've been SOOO many of those.:DEdmund G. "Pat" Brown; you've probably heard of his son Jerry....
:rolleyes:
Thanks to God and the United States Army for my ticket out of that porcelain whirlpool. Ain't never been back. (I don't count quick return thru Oakland long enough to claim my duffel and find another airplane ASAP...)
http://www.local10.com/news/Police-Trayvon-protesters-ransack-store/-/1717324/9719674/-/xctonpz/-/index.html
Was that their teacher directing traffic by the front door?
Wonder if that was the civics class let out early to see first hand what good citizens do during the day?
Was that their teacher directing traffic by the front door?
Wonder if that was the civics class let out early to see first hand what good citizens do during the day?
Are you crazy? They were probably rushing in to be the first in line to apply for a job.:rolleyes:
With all due respect, QP Dusty, earlier in this thread, I raised a similar point when another member of this BB made a comparison of events in the 1960s to what is happening today.
You did at that, and Blacks do have a history in this country of deadly rioting when they don't get the answer they want and opportunity presents itself. I have seen similar rioting quite a few times sense that day. Or maybe that is just biased reporting on the part of the media like the coverage of Reginald Denney being pulled from his truck and getting a brick to the face and Korean Store owners shooting at looters. Or the reporting of how fearful California was of rioting if the OJ Simpson case didn't swing in his favor.
That is not intended to sarcastic.....California is a long way from Kansas and I am asking the question are those events fact or fiction? My other question is whether there are other ethnic groups in the past 40 years that frequently engage in deadly riots within the US?
Back to Kansas City April 1968....
If you ask older people in Kansas City why the 1968 riot happened you get one of two simple answers (at least from those I have spoken to and overheard), one is that the Blacks were upset Dr. King was killed. The other is that Activists/Agitators decided to have a protest on the day of his funeral, many in the community thought the event was disrespectful, the Police interceded and a riot ensued.
The Kansas City Library has this to say about the riot:
And Then It Happened
April 3, 2009
April 9, 1968: With tensions high after the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr., riots break out in Kansas City, leaving seven people dead and nearly 100 buildings damaged.
Frustrated with the slow pace of civil rights reforms and outraged at the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr., protestors turned to violence in Kansas City on April 9, 1968. The riots shocked many residents of the city, which had long been known for its lack of racial violence despite its deep, underlying racial tensions. The assassination of King, perhaps the nation's leading exemplar of non-violent methods to bring about social change, ironically became the catalyst that brought simmering racial tensions to the point of civil disorder, not just in Kansas City, but in locales around the country.
As with most major American cities, Kansas City's population had been deeply segregated since the early 20th century. Some of the earliest organized civil rights protests in Kansas City occurred during World War II when the members of the black community protested their exclusion from employment in war industries. By 1942, these protests, combined with a genuine need for labor and fairer federal policies, won the desegregation of factories supporting the war effort in the metropolitan area.
In the 1950s other civil rights victories ensued. Taking a cue from national organizations such as the Congress of Racial Equality (CORE), the locally-based Community Committee for Social Action successfully led non-violent boycotts and protests against downtown Kansas City businesses in order to desegregate lunch counters.
Between 1960 and 1964, desegregation occurred in Kansas City's public parks, bars, swimming pools, golf courses, hotels, restaurants, and institutions of higher education. Mayor Ilus Davis boasted of the city's "unusually peaceful breakdown of racial segregation." Despite the contentious debates then swirling around Kansas City race politics, no race riots had broken out here as they had in most other major U.S. cities by the mid-1960s.
Unfortunately, one perpetual trouble underlay what on the surface appeared to be a peaceful integration process. Local civil rights organizations, including Kansas City's Freedom Inc., demanded the desegregation of residential neighborhoods and an end to discriminatory practices in mortgage lending and rental policies. Even as these activists succeeded in putting this housing issue to a referendum vote planned for April 1968, the local civil rights movement shortly splintered due to disagreement over the militancy necessary to press for these reforms.
Younger blacks were less willing than their elders to wait for white politicians and largely-white electorates to deliver reforms that had already been delayed for decades. On April 9, 1968, between 200 and 300 of these black youths gathered near City Hall to demand the closure of the city's schools to commemorate the day of King's funeral. Mayor Davis actually joined the protestors in their march. Despite Davis' involvement with this peaceful demonstration, the Kansas City police shot tear gas and dispersed the crowd. By most accounts, the protestors at city hall never really became violent.
After the police attack on the city hall protesters, angry blacks proceeded to vandalize and burn white-owned businesses. Within two days, a three-block wide section of town running down Prospect Avenue lay in ruins. Over 1,700 National Guard troops joined 700 policemen in putting down the riot. For two nights bullets flew from both parties as police and firemen battled to maintain order and put out fires. Nearly 300 arrests were made, mostly of young black males. Tragically, seven black citizens died in the violence.
Eager to avoid more unrest, the city council expediently reformed its housing ordinances to desegregate housing sales and rentals. This eliminated the need to hold the previously scheduled referendum vote that might have ignited even more public debates and protests. Since the peak of tensions in April 1968, Kansas City race relations have fortunately improved, even though many of the underlying issues are still not fully resolved.
http://www.kclibrary.org/?q=blog/month-kansas-city-history/and-then-it-happened
Then and as now, militants and activists not willing to wait for due process and riling people up for their own agendas.
Speakin' of jobs...how are all these folks getting time off from work.
What do you tell your boss...I'm takin' the day off to protest/support/march for the cause???
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/27/new-black-panther-party-leader-arrested-for-possession-firearm-after-issuing/
A New Black Panther Party leader who announced a $10,000 reward for the capture of the neighborhood watchman who shot and killed Florida teen Trayvon Martin was arrested Monday outside Atlanta for possession of a firearm by a convicted felon, DeKalb County Sheriff’s office said.
Hashim Nzinga, 49, was in possession of an FN Herstal 5.7x28 handgun that he allegedly sold to the Stone Mountain Pawn Shop on March 5 in DeKalb County, Sgt. Adrion Bell, the public information officer, told FoxNews.com.
Last month, Nzinga was convicted for felony deposit account fraud in nearby Gwinnett County, Bell said. It is illegal for a convicted felon to carry a firearm in the state and police were alerted to Nzinga’s alleged possession after the store’s transaction, Bell said.
He was arrested without incident at the probation office he was reporting to, Bell said.
The FN Herstal 5.7x28 is considered a high-end gun that can fetch $800 to $900 at a pawn shop. It is unclear how much Nzinga made from the alleged sale.
Nzinga serves as the New Black Panther Party’s chief of staff. He recently made news after going on CNN and offering a $10,000 reward for the capture of George Zimmerman, whose role in the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin is being investigated by Florida authorities.
Martin’s killing has attracted the country’s attention. Black leaders say the incident was racially motivated and call for Zimmerman to be arrested. Others, however, say the killer is protected under Florida’s “stand your ground” law and was acting in self-defense.
Snip
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/27/new-black-panther-party-leader-arrested-for-possession-firearm-after-issuing/#ixzz1qM9cVl3q
Never fear, AG Holder will be all over the NBPP.
Never fear, AG Holder will be all over the NBPP.
This genius?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/key-charges-dismissed-against-michigan-militia-members-charged-with-plotting-war-on-government/2012/03/27/gIQAfUYVeS_story.html
Holder might be a little dim but he can be decisive...some say this rapid decision making is because Holder sees all things as either black or white.
So Spike Lee thinks it's ok to Tweet the supposed address of Zimmerman to his 200,000 followers. That in itself is bad enough. But, as it turns out, he relayed the INCORRECT address...so now some unsuspecting woman in Florida has to fear for her own safety. Spike Lee should shut up and be forced to pay up to provide 24 hour security for this woman in Florida.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywood/2012/03/27/Spike-Tweets-Wrong-Address
This link provides some of the actual comments made by people in response to Lee's Tweet:
http://twitchy.com/2012/03/24/spike-lee-retweets-george-zimmermans-address-threats/
This genius?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/key-charges-dismissed-against-michigan-militia-members-charged-with-plotting-war-on-government/2012/03/27/gIQAfUYVeS_story.html
Oh BOY! You made my day with that.
.....California is a long way from Kansas
Apparently not long enough... ;)
Paslode , while we are agreed the NBPP is a bunch of hate mongering nutjobs, and the MSM is unjustly convicting Mr. Zimmerman before the facts come out, my $.02, between the blanket statements on race, and the Nazi quote on your signature, you are giving off an impression I really don't think you intend.
Apparently not long enough... ;)
Paslode , while we are agreed the NBPP is a bunch of hate mongering nutjobs, and the MSM is unjustly convicting Mr. Zimmerman before the facts come out, my $.02, between the blanket statements on race, and the Nazi quote on your signature, you are giving off an impression I really don't think you intend.
Same thing I thought about you re: your hometown.
After reading back through this entire thread, I think one could make a strong argument for it supporting Abraham Lincoln's opinion when he said, "I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday."
My suggestion is that we quit buying into and feeding the 'narrative' and await the Grand Jury's verdict on this one.
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
How does one define equality? Is the complex issue of race relations primarily about national electoral politics and the skin color of elected and appointed leaders?
Or is it a matrix of factors--including matters of politics, policy, economics, the interplay of popular historical memory with individual experiences, contingency, and cultural sensibilities--that shapes our discussion of the encounter between Mr. Zimmerman and Mr. Martin?
Equality The myth that we will ALL get a date with the Homecoming Queen, grow to 6 ft. 7 in., either all of our Dads will leave or none of them will, that we will each have 5 friends, and will share our home with exactly one brother and two sisters.
Race relations The strain between identifiable groups based upon the mix of responsibility, blame and anger as reinforced or filtered by those that we identify as "like me".
Racial Disparity ( Avg US working couple $102,000/yr single parent $63,500.) If my Dad leaves my Mom and yours doesn't a "disparity" has been created in my income and opportunity. This disparity proves that the Govt. hasn't treated me fairly, that other racial groups aren't very understanding, and that my great-great-great grandfather should have been a tailor. :)
See how simple? :D
And..... here in lies the problem.......
See, being that most folks with a QP next to their name at one time or another have spoken at least 2 languages, what we've learned in that arduous process is that words actually have specific meanings.
Equality is based on a math problem. At it's core, the word means that 1 will always equal 1 (1=1).
Fair is based on an abstract concept that human kind has cooked up to replace equal because of some sort of emotional concept.
While on the surface these words are used interchangeable, much like stop and yield seem to be in Colorado, they do in fact have very different meanings.
Fairness is not achievable simply because what is fair to you is not ever going to be fair to me. However, equal, that is always the same.
If you are getting your head kicked in by a 6-2 punk late at night, and you can defend yourself, you have equal protection under the law to defend your life.
End of story, cameras can go home, get back to watching dancing with the stars.
longrange1947
03-28-2012, 07:15
Did not see this article posted here. Good read.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2715538/dont-rush-to-judgment-in-trayvon.html#storylink=misearch
Something for all to think about.
I am tired of the high profile a**clowns calling for his head though.
Apparently not long enough... ;)
the Nazi quote on your signature, you are giving off an impression I really don't think you intend.
It must be time to derail Trayvan Martin thread :D
AKV,
Being a POS doesn't invalidate being correct......and the Nazi's were on the mark on many things like Rockets and Propaganda. Von Braun was a Nazi, Jews were forced to build his masterpieces, but his services were useful so his words are deemed A-OKAY!
“Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft, and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor”
Despite what most, including myself think of most of the the Nazi's, including Goebbels he made a good point in that remark. You can remove his name and it is still valid point, leave his name in and the words become more sinister.
And I believe his idea crept into the last election with the foggy eyed masses and hasn't left, you are seeing it action as we speak not just in Florida but across the land.
It's community organizing, the Adminstration, The Media, the TSA, The Tea Party, SEIU, NEA, NBPP, Rev. Al, Jesse Jackson, The Occupy Movement, etc...etc....
Goebbels would be proud of their work.
And the question is, come November who's going to control the street?
While I won't comment on the legality of the shooting, I will wait to reserve opinion on the case until the facts come out in court. While reading all the posts, and other news articles, I came across one in the WSJ by Juan Williams. Now I don't always agree with Juan, but he brings up some good points in his article. While the Martin shooting is a tragedy, the greater tragedy is the hipocrisy or the protest leaders when it comes to the overall picture of black homicide. If they would focus the same effort to have on the protests for Martin, as they should on the black on black crime, maybe we could see a real change in society for the better. Here's the article link
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303404704577307613183789698.html
Mack
While I won't comment on the legality of the shooting, I will wait to reserve opinion on the case until the facts come out in court. While reading all the posts, and other news articles, I came across one in the WSJ by Juan Williams. Now I don't always agree with Juan, but he brings up some good points in his article. While the Martin shooting is a tragedy, the greater tragedy is the hipocrisy or the protest leaders when it comes to the overall picture of black homicide. If they would focus the same effort to have on the protests for Martin, as they should on the black on black crime, maybe we could see a real change in society for the better. Here's the article link
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303404704577307613183789698.html
Mack
That's because even Juan can sense it's gonna turn out like Duke. Otherwise, he'd be leading the chorus against Z.
Some musings from an acknowledged expert - excerpt and link to complete article that is worth a read - also link to Sanford, FL police report.
Florida’s Self-Defense Laws
David Kopel • March 27, 2012 11:59 pm
Media coverage of Florida’s self-defense laws in recent weeks has often been very inaccurate. While some persons, particularly from the gun prohibition lobbies, have claimed that the Martin/Zimmerman case shows the danger of Florida’s “Stand your ground” law, that law is legally irrelevant to case. So let’s take a look at what the Florida laws actually say...
In sum: there is not a shred of support for the claim that Florida law protects, or has protected Zimmerman, if he unlawfully attacked Martin. If Zimmerman’s story is true (Martin attacked him, putting him in imminent peril of grave bodily injury, with no opportunity to retreat), then Zimmerman’s self-defense claim would be valid under the laws of Florida, New York, or any other Anglo-American jurisdiction. The particular legal changes resulting from Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” and “Castle Doctrine” laws (deadly force in the home/automobile; no duty to retreat in public places; Fourth Amendment arrest standard affirmation; protection from civil suits) simply have nothing to do with whether Zimmerman’s actions were or were not lawful.
http://volokh.com/2012/03/27/floridas-self-defense-laws/
Link to partial Sanford, FL police report below:
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf
Iraqgunz
03-28-2012, 22:59
One thing that pisses me off are all the calls to arrest him until the investigation is done. I realize that in some places this may be the "norm" but I know for a fact that in AZ there have been several self defense shootings in the last 2 years and in every case the shooter was allowed to walk because the investigation concluded that the person acted within the law.
In this case it would seem as if the police looked at the evidence and concluded that his actions were justifiable and it wasn't until people started screaming racism that they decided to dig deeper.
Destrier
03-29-2012, 03:05
http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/george-zimmerman-police-surveillance-16024475
Link to vid arriving at police station.
Hard to see wounds with the ABC logo and he would have apparently at this time have already seen the EMT at the scene, but one Police officer looks very intently at the back of zimmerman's head.
Yes, I offered a different interpretation which was entirely applicable to the context.I do not agree that drawing a straight line from Detroit in the 1960s to Sanford, Florida in 2012 to prove a point, and then offering an interpretation that annihilates the connection is a historically sustainable argument.
MOO, either history matters or it doesn't. The political right rests the legitimacy of its vision for America on the history of this country. Whenever that history is used selectively and certain chapters and interpretations are dismissed, the political right undermines its intellectual credibility.
Equality is defined in this instance as blacks having access to the same rights and opportunities as whites. Show me one contemporary instance where this isn't true.The question remains: where does the past end and the present begin? (And do race relations in America just mean black and white?)
As for your request for an example, I would refer you to the changes in the timetables and the routes of the LAMTA's bus lines since 2009 <<LINK (http://thesource.metro.net/2011/12/09/metros-statement-on-ftas-title-vi-civil-rights-audit/)>>.
Answer this honestly: You think the National leadership would get involved if I set up a New White Militia, posting a $10K reward for the capture of any of these perpetrators of this crime?
http://www.knoxnews.com/news/news/local/channon-christian-christopher-newsom-murders/Honestly, there are too many hypothetical/what ifs in this particular thread, if not in American political discourse more generally. There are plenty of actual issues to address in the here and now without resorting to the history of what might happen if John Doe did X, Y, or Z.
IMO, rank and file Americans (i.e. those of us in the peanut gallery) need to decide for themselves what outcome they want in 2012 and 2014 and 2016 and give some thought about working towards those goals. Do people want to rehash already well-worn arguments? Do individuals want to have yet another conversation with people who already agree with them?
Or do they want to reach across the aisle and start building coalitions to address issues that impact the every day lives of diverse groups of people? (IIRC, the framework for such cooperation was laid out on 22 November 1787. (http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa10.htm))
My $0.02.
Entire post.Bluntly, arguing that the "Nazis were on the mark" about anything requires a profound misunderstanding of the goals and methods of the Nazi dictatorship as well as the concept of grand strategy--if not also a remarkable misreading of a substantial body of historiography.
FYI, the goal of the Nazis was not simply to establish control of all aspects of life in Germany but to exert mastery over all of Europe, to destroy the British Empire, to displace and to slaughter tens of millions of central and eastern Europeans, and to defeat the United States decisively in a general war.
Given the end result of the Second World War and the subsequent pillaging and division of Germany, it is difficult to see how one could make a historically credible argument that the Nazis got anything right.
Badger52
03-29-2012, 05:51
Or do they want to reach across the aisle and start building coalitions to address issues that impact the every day lives of diverse groups of people?My $0.02.Congress critters do things all the time that affect the every day lives of people; whether in a positive or negative way is gonna vary and, imo, usually done with a politically expedient & reactive bent. There is a character deficit in my view, fostered over time by acceptance that nannies know best. Even under best circumstances no one is likely to alter the fact that constituents send representatives to represent them for different interests. The precept for that interest in many cases may need to be altered; especially where sloth collides with initiative.
Mathematically & legislatively I'd suggest that the Fed could forget what lane they're in, they should just put the car back in the garage for awhile. That 1787 charter can cut both ways.
;)
The political right rests the legitimacy of its vision for America on the history of this country. Whenever that history is used selectively and certain chapters and interpretations are dismissed, the political right undermines its intellectual credibility.
Honestly, there are too many hypothetical/what ifs in this particular thread, if not in American political discourse more generally. There are plenty of actual issues to address in the here and now without resorting to the history of what might happen if John Doe did X, Y, or Z.
...Or do they want to reach across the aisle and start building coalitions to address issues that impact the every day lives of diverse groups of people?
As relates to the Sanford shooting, the NBPP (a racist hate group) issues a bounty (wanted dead or alive reportedly on a poster - certainly a call for capture on film) on a citizen and the president and the AG are now stunningly silent.
Does anyone really believe that our nation's leaders (President Obama or AG Holder, specifically) would remain silent if a white racist hate group did the same thing as the NBPP? Racism is racism and it is wrong and it works both ways.
Why not condemn the actions of the NBPP and the race baiters? Is this current NBPP statement not "a teachable moment." Does not the left undermine its intellectual credibility when it fails to call out their own? Are whites not part of the diverse groups of people of which you speak? In this instance can the president not reach "across the aisle?"
This could shape up to be one long, hot summer - roll on November.
This could shape up to be one long, hot summer - roll on November.
That could be someone's re-election plan...
:mad:
Dohhunter
03-29-2012, 07:00
.....it is difficult to see how one could make a historically credible argument that the Nazis got anything right.
The G/K43 (with the exception of some gas piston gremlins).
/derail
Sigaba, take your Gandhi-goes-to-Harvard BS somewhere else.
Militant blacks are making threatening gestures which are setting off warning signs among people who are aware and don't trust the administration to be fair; it's that simple. We don't need a f.cking historical tome written behind it.
If you want to get in a bus, sing We Shall Overcome and hold up an Ankh, that's fine. Some of us are getting a premonition of trouble, and we don't handle it by typing and snivelling about the lack of chronologically correct historical continuity.
You apparently wouldn't recognize hate if it bit you in the ass. There are several crowds of black militants out there right now who hate whites, and they don't fear any legal repercussion because of Obama's statements and Holder's lack of action.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/george-zimmerman-police-surveillance-16024475
Link to vid arriving at police station.
Hard to see wounds with the ABC logo and he would have apparently at this time have already seen the EMT at the scene, but one Police officer looks very intently at the back of zimmerman's head.
The news was all over the fact that you cant see his wounds in the tape. Police won't transport a suspect that is still bleeding. Emt's must stabilize all suspects or order them taken to a hospital. The media is un watchable at times.
Another one. CNN was in an uproar because Zimmernams friend waited a month to come forward as a witness. He was interviewed with in days of the shooting. He only waited a month to talk to the media...Not the police.
Given the end result of the Second World War and the subsequent pillaging and division of Germany, it is difficult to see how one could make a historically credible argument that the Nazis got anything right.
They may have failed overall, they criminally used their assets and knowledge, they brought death and destruction on a world wide scale....but that doesn't invalidate their concepts and innovations.
Blitzkrieg, Rockets, Jets, Intelligence, Encryption, Armor, Tanks and Machine Guns just to name a few. They were adept in propaganda, stirring up and controlling their masses.
They were innovators of many things we use today. And as with most innovations there seems to be a Good and Evil associated with it.
As it relates to this topic...
If Rev. Al and the NBPP were to gain control of the streets in Florida I would bet money Zimmerman, guilty or not guilty, the State would concede to their wishes and Zimmerman would be sacrificed.....in other words the Mob rules.
We already have seen mindless crowds chanting Black Power and leaders calling for the head of a 'White' man .......reminds me of long forgotten crowds chanting Zeig Heil and Leaders demonizing Jews.
How a summer of protest relates to this election cycle.....
That could be someone's re-election plan...
:mad:
And as detestable as Goebbels was, his eery words are words of warning.
Dohhunter
03-29-2012, 08:03
That video is the epitome of "you see what you want to see", for either camp.
Media at its best, an oxymoron in itself.
...issues a bounty (wanted dead or alive reportedly on a poster - certainly a call for capture on film) on a citizen...
Reportedly? Everything I've seen on this - including their official circular which is posted in their Spring 2012 'The New Black Panther' newspaper on their web-site as well as both their written and verbal proclamations - calls for "The lawful citizen's arrest." Typical 'guerrilla theater' from the 60's...and now magnified through the efforts of the MSM, talk show pundits, politically motivated opportunists, and the blogosphere.
Reading the NBPP's newspaper is interesting and, when it comes to the current POTUS, sounds as if the ABO crowd is writing their material for them, too.
I also went to Wikipedia seeking a link to the NBPP's web-site. Scrolling down to the External links and then clicking on Official website links to this: http://www.kfc.com/ :eek: :( NOT COOL!
It is time to 'let it go' - to quit fueling the embers of social discord with inflammatory blather - to let the system work through it all - and to await the results.
Richard :munchin
I also went to Wikipedia seeking a link to the NBPP's web-site. Scrolling down to the External links and then clicking on Official website links to this:
Posting that link will diffuse the situation and "let's it go?"
I think that we all know that there is more than enough hate to go around.
It appears to me that most folks are focusing on THIS case in THIS thread and the statements made by representatives of the NBPP related thereto.
Google them...post them...YouTube is full of statements from the NBPP. I won't post here and "fuel the embers of social discord."
The silence from Holder and Obama denouncing the race baiters and hate speech is deafening.
Yes, the dearth of leadership at the time of this "teachable moment" strongly suggests to me - anybody but Obama. YMMV. Obama and Holder had the perfect opportunity to step up and demonstrate that racism is racism and will not be tolerated. THAT would go a long way to quit fueling the embers of racism and social discord rather than inflammatory links and blather. On that, I hope we can agree.
It 's time to 'let it go' - to quit fueling the embers of social discord with inflammatory blather - to let the system work through it all - and to await the results.
Reportedly? Richard :munchin
Just grabbed the first link available there are many, many reports.
http://www.jillstanek.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Screen-Shot-2012-03-27-at-1.30.23-PM.png
It is time to 'let it go' - to quit fueling the embers of social discord with inflammatory blather - to let the system work through it all - and to await the results.
Richard[/COLOR] :munchin
I assume you're addressing Spike Lee, the hoodie ex-Blank Panther who got reprimanded on the Hill, Sharpton and Jackson, Maxine Watters, the NBPP and the New Black Militia, since I haven't heard, seen or read any "inflammatory blather" from anybody else, yet.
The silence from Holder and Obama denouncing the race baiters and hate speech is deafening.
To me, the silence from the milquetoast, head-in-the-sand, middle-of-the-road, non-committal imbeciles who allowed him to be elected is deafening.
It must be time to derail Trayvan Martin thread :D
AKV,
Being a POS doesn't invalidate being correct......and the Nazi's were on the mark on many things like Rockets and Propaganda. Von Braun was a Nazi, Jews were forced to build his masterpieces, but his services were useful so his words are deemed A-OKAY!
Despite what most, including myself think of most of the the Nazi's, including Goebbels he made a good point in that remark. You can remove his name and it is still valid point, leave his name in and the words become more sinister.
And I believe his idea crept into the last election with the foggy eyed masses and hasn't left, you are seeing it action as we speak not just in Florida but across the land.
It's community organizing, the Adminstration, The Media, the TSA, The Tea Party, SEIU, NEA, NBPP, Rev. Al, Jesse Jackson, The Occupy Movement, etc...etc....
Goebbels would be proud of their work.
And the question is, come November who's going to control the street?
I missed this yesterday...I call "Godwins Law" with this post. Remarkably funny how accurate it is.
To me, the silence from the milquetoast, head-in-the-sand, middle-of-the-road, non-committal imbeciles who allowed him to be elected is deafening.
Maybe, now, they can get over the historical moment of the Obama presidency and admit that Obama's policies are failing miserably - his leadership on difficult issues nonexistent - it is sometimes very difficult for some to admit that they could be so wrong about one anointed by the vast majority of the press and pundits. It is easier to attack, misdirect, deny and otherwise complicate an already complex situation.
That could be someone's re-election plan...
:mad:
Crimes like this one will only fan the flames:
http://www.foxcarolina.com/story/17284891/seneca-police-arrest-6-accused-of-beating-nc-man
SENECA, SC (FOX Carolina) -
Seneca police said they arrested six men Wednesday in connection with the beating of a North Carolina man at Applebee's earlier in March.
Police said their investigation determined that the victim was beat by the group of men and the incident may have been racially motivated. The department said they forwarded the case to the FBI to determine if it should be pursued further as a hate crime under federal law.
Click for SLIDESHOW: Police arrest 6 in beating by mob
Officers said all six suspects were charged with assault and battery by a mob in connection with the March 17 beating.
The suspects are Teryn Robinson, 18, Tray Holland, 19, Justin Alexander, 20, Derick Williams, 22, Kino Jones, 25, and Montrez Jones, 22. Police said all of them are from the Seneca area and were taken into custody without incident
Think we'll witness any outrage from the Justice Bros, Watters, Holder or Obama over this?
I wonder how come in that article there was no mention of race??? Does the press just mention race when it's a shooting???
:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Sure do throw out "white" quick enough when that happens...
or...a hate crime is only a one way street...:eek:
I wonder how come in that article there was no mention of race??? Does the press just mention race when it's a shooting???
:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Sure do throw out "white" quick enough when that happens...
or...a hate crime is only a one way street...:eek:
There's a photo link, if you're talking about the SC article.
Dohhunter
03-29-2012, 12:28
The young lady at FAU is not really helping the situation much either, is she.
Talk about hate speech.
Worth a read.
MARCH 27, 2012 4:00 A.M.
Obama’s Demagoguery
The president has a bad habit of wading uninformed into local controversies.
By Victor Davis Hanson
Excerpts:
The atrocity at first seemed undeniable: A white vigilante, with a Germanic name no less, hunted down and then executed a tiny black youth — who, from his published grammar-school photos, seemed about twelve — while he was walking innocently and eating candy in an exclusive gated community in northern Florida. The gunman had used a racial slur, as supposedly heard on a 911 tape, and ignored the dispatcher’s urging him to back off.
The apparently racist, or at least insensitive, white police chief and district attorney then covered up the murder. Understandable outrage followed in the black community, but the killing also brought out the usual demagogues. Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Louis Farrakhan, and the New Black Panther Party all alleged that the shooting death of Trayvon Martin was an indictment of a systematically racist white society. They demanded justice, and the Black Panthers announced a $10,000 bounty on the supposed killer. Even Philadelphia mayor Michael Nutter got into the act, dubbing the shooting an “assassination.”
President Obama himself, who had been silent about the slaughter in his adopted hometown, weighed in on the Martin case and, unfortunately, highlighted the racial undertones — lamenting that the murdered Martin looked just the way his own boy might, had he a son. The latter statement was true but also, of course, true of some of those murdered in Chicago. And given that the black minority currently commits violent crimes against the white majority more frequently than do the nation’s 70 percent whites against its 12 percent blacks, the president’s evocation of race in the Martin case seemed inappropriate to many.
In other words, the president waded into an ongoing investigation, in which the facts of the case remain murky and in dispute. And instead of playing down the racial component of the tragedy in polarized times, he seemed instead deliberately to have emphasized it.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/294481/obama-s-demagoguery-victor-davis-hanson?pg=1
Sigaba, take your Gandhi-goes-to-Harvard BS somewhere else.
Militant blacks are making threatening gestures which are setting off warning signs among people who are aware and don't trust the administration to be fair; it's that simple. We don't need a f.cking historical tome written behind it.
If you want to get in a bus, sing We Shall Overcome and hold up an Ankh, that's fine. Some of us are getting a premonition of trouble, and we don't handle it by typing and snivelling about the lack of chronologically correct historical continuity.
You apparently wouldn't recognize hate if it bit you in the ass. There are several crowds of black militants out there right now who hate whites, and they don't fear any legal repercussion because of Obama's statements and Holder's lack of action.QP Dusty--
I am hardly sniveling. I am communicating in a civil and respectful tone with you. I understand, acknowledge, and respect that this is your house and that you've been there and done that. However, it is my view that you are taking this conversation in a direction that it doesn't need to go.
And I assure you that I recognize hateful rhetoric when I see it.
QP Dusty--
I am hardly sniveling. I am communicating in a civil and respectful tone with you. I understand, acknowledge, and respect that this is your house and that you've been there and done that. However, it is my view that you are taking this conversation in a direction that it doesn't need to go.
And I assure you that I recognize hateful rhetoric when I see it.
You obliquely accused me of comparing blacks with insects. How is that respectful? I'd call it snide and an act of effrontery, regardless of whose house we're in.
If they had a "Professional Deniers" forum, and I logged on, I wouldn't accuse you in that manner, whether we were buds or didn't know each other from Adam.
You see what's going on, but, since you are free to express your views, you continue to play devil's advocate for the subjects who are in the wrong, and it pisses me off (whether you do it respectfully or act like an ass).
Posting that link will diffuse the situation and "let's it go?"
Posting the link was merely to capture its existance prior to its eventual removal by the Wiki editors.
As for me and this topic...
__
BT
There's a photo link, if you're talking about the SC article.
I can't see the photos here...
I meant there was no mention of any "race" in the write-up..was not refering to the pics..
I can't see the photos here...
I meant there was no mention of any "race" in the write-up..was not refering to the pics..
http://www.foxcarolina.com/slideshow?widgetid=49111
Here's the slideshow. I assume the victim is non-black, since they're considering a hate-crime charge.
Is there truly anyone on this forum who can't recognize the oppression displayed by the acts of racists who would not only accuse Z but offer rewards and demonstrate over his guilt before he's even been charged with anything because a black man was shot?
That razor cuts both ways, and I sense there are some here who are blind to the fact.
http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/killzimmerman-twitter-advocates-violence-against-martins-killer/
On March 24 a “KillZimmerman” Twitter account began publishing calls for violence against George Zimmerman, the self-appointed neighborhood watch captain who shot and killed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin on Feb. 26.
Five days later, the account is still on its crusade to avenge Martin.
The sender’s initial tweets made his or her aims clear: “No Justice No Peace!!!!!!!!!! #KILLZIMMERMAN #KILLZIMMERMAN #KILLZIMMERMAN,” they read.
The account’s image is a photo of gun-sight crosshairs superimposed on Zimmerman’s picture.
“This Page Is 4 Da Ppl Who Believe Zimmerman Should Be Shot Dead In The Street,” the Twitter account’s description reads, “The Same Way TRAYVON Was. No Justice No Peace.”
In response to one tweeted complaint on March 24 that the account “is advocating murder,” the account holder replied: “we should just all get up and #killzimmerman ourselves; fuck the system. #AintNoJustice”
“I Think They Should Shoot Zimmerman Dead In His Head Jail Ain’t Enough,” read another message the same day.
“Don’t get me wrong I would be happy if he go to jail,” another tweet read, “but I rather see a bitch shoot him in his fuckin face.”
On March 27, the account tweeted: “Leave All The Violence Shit To Us Coz If They Don’t Put Em In Jail We Gone Get His Ass.”
“We don’t comment on specific users or the status of accounts for privacy reasons,” Twitter spokesperson Rachael Horwitz told The Daily Caller. She did not indicate whether Twitter intends to take action to suspend the account, but provided TheDC with a Web address where users can report “an abusive user.”
It’s clear from the account’s tweets on Wednesday that some Twitter users are taking advantage of that option.
“All these racist motherfuckers tryin to get me deleted like I did something wrong,” one tweet read. “Bitch zimmerman killed #TRAYVON he the one wrong.”
Calls for violence directed at Trayvon Martin’s killer are not restricted to Twitter alone.
The New Black Panther Party has issued a “dead or alive” bounty for Zimmerman’s capture. Its value was originally $10,000. On Wednesday that amount was increased dramatically — to $1 million.
On Facebook, groups named “I want George Zimmerman dead,” “Kill George Zimmerman bitch azz,” “Kill Zimmerman” and “Kill George Zimmerman” have appeared, some with approximately 100 members.
The “Kill Zimmerman” Twitter profile had 162 followers at 1 p.m. EDT Thursday, a number likely to increase because The Drudge Report posted a link to the page.
George Zimmerman remains in hiding from vigilante threats. Absent a fringe element calling for retaliatory violence, the vast majority of Martin’s supporters seek only Zimmerman’s arrest and prosecution
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/killzimmerman-twitter-advocates-violence-against-martins-killer/#ixzz1qXElwEaE
Some are in deep denial - where's the presidential cry for civility now.
Remember the London riots last summer - we may be in for a repeat, in no small part, because of this administration's reluctance to diffuse an already tense situation and call out some undeniably inappropriate behavior by the NBPP and even some in congress.
This is a big leadership fail.
Is there truly anyone on this forum who can't recognize the oppression displayed by the acts of racists who would not only accuse Z but offer rewards and demonstrate over his guilt before he's even been charged with anything because a black man was shot?
That razor cuts both ways, and I sense there are some here who are blind to the fact.
I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.
Unfortunately Dr. King's dream appears to have been kicked under the bus by many....
Some are in deep denial - where's the presidential cry for civility now.
Remember the London riots last summer - we may be in for a repeat, in no small part, because of this administration's reluctance to diffuse an already tense situation and call out some undeniably inappropriate behavior by the NBPP and even some in congress.
This is a big leadership fail.
I believe 'reluctance to diffuse' is a stretch.....rather I would say the Administration is not letting this crisis go to waste and in fact they have fueled the fire with their words and are endorsing the behavior with their inaction.
And this isn't the first time for this Administration, it has happened several times since January 2009.
Some are in deep denial - where's the presidential cry for civility now.
Remember the London riots last summer - we may be in for a repeat, in no small part, because of this administration's reluctance to diffuse an already tense situation and call out some undeniably inappropriate behavior by the NBPP and even some in congress.
This is a big leadership fail.
He already threw his hat in with the "could be my son" comment.
http://www.foxcarolina.com/slideshow?widgetid=49111
Here's the slideshow. I assume the victim is non-black, since they're considering a hate-crime charge.
You are correct...and "considering" is probably as far as it will go...:mad:
I believe 'reluctance to diffuse' is a stretch.....rather I would say the Administration is not letting this crisis go to waste and in fact they have fueled the fire with their words and are endorsing the behavior with their inaction.
Just being civil this anger management program is not all it's cracked up to be. :D
You obliquely accused me of comparing blacks with insects. How is that respectful? I'd call it snide and an act of effrontery, regardless of whose house we're in.
If they had a "Professional Deniers" forum, and I logged on, I wouldn't accuse you in that manner, whether we were buds are didn't know each other from Adam.
You see what's going on, but, since you are free to express your views, you continue to play devil's advocate for the subjects who are in the wrong, and it pisses me off (whether you do it respectfully or act like an ass).QP Dusty--
With respect, I raised a question about your choice of words and their propriety in the context of this thread. This question was prompted by my understanding of the ways issues of race have been discussed in this country since the 1830s and the impact of that rhetoric on the history of our country. I believe that words mean things. I further believe that one's choice of words can activate those meanings even as those meanings are becoming increasingly anachronistic.
To be clear, I am not playing devil's advocate in this thread. It is my belief that the NBPP is inconsequential. It is my view that the only power it has is the power we give to it. The basis of this conclusion is my understanding of American history, of the role radicalism has played in American politics generally, and of the patterns of political activity by blacks arcing back to the late eighteenth century.
In my view, there is not enough fuel, nor heat, nor air to ignite the dormant fire of black radical militancy. However, the profound misreading of the conditions on the ground, abetted by an unfamiliarity with the tone and tempo of African American political discourse, is prompting some to yell "fire" when it is just smoke and mirrors.
The NBPP wants to use the Zimmerman/Martin incident as an opportunity for publicity. It, and other fringe elements on the left and the right, want to stir the pot and to exploit the genuine concerns of many Americans. MOO, such efforts can only be successful if we buy into their narratives.
In short, I don't think this is about the NBPP. I think that this is about how we, as individuals, use critical thought, civil discourse, and the "search button" to counter the fear mongering and race baiting that is coming from both the left and the right.*
My $0.02.
_________________________________________________
* IMO, the Trayvon Martin shooting reminds me a lot of the Edmund Perry shooting of 1985. That is, a sort of good-enough kid (depending upon who you ask) fails to understand the difference between having a bad attitude and being a bad ass and has the misfortune of paying for his misunderstanding with his life.
He already threw his hat in with the "could be my son" comment.
No doubt - and his silence (with respect to the obvious inflammatory behavior by the NBPP) is also telegraphing a message that emboldens the NBPP and others.
Maybe he can triangulate and recognize his folly - but I fear he is a true ideologue. This is an election year...I hope those undecided recognize the danger this administration poses to this country.
QP Dusty--
With respect, I raised a question about your choice of words and their propriety in the context of this thread. This question was prompted by my understanding of the ways issues of race have been discussed in this country since the 1830s and the impact of that rhetoric on the history of our country. I believe that words mean things. I further believe that one's choice of words can activate those meanings even as those meanings are becoming increasingly anachronistic.
To be clear, I am not playing devil's advocate in this thread. It is my belief that the NBPP is inconsequential. It is my view that the only power it has is the power we give to it. The basis of this conclusion is my understanding of American history, of the role radicalism has played in American politics generally, and of the patterns of political activity by blacks arcing back to the late eighteenth century.
In my view, there is not enough fuel, nor heat, nor air to ignite the dormant fire of black radical militancy. However, the profound misreading of the conditions on the ground, abetted by an unfamiliarity with the tone and tempo of African American political discourse, is prompting some to yell "fire" when it is just smoke and mirrors.
The NBPP wants to use the Zimmerman/Martin incident as an opportunity for publicity. It, and other fringe elements on the left and the right, want to stir the pot and to exploit the genuine concerns of many Americans. MOO, such efforts can only be successful if we buy into their narratives.
In short, I don't think this is about the NBPP. I think that this is about how we, as individuals, use critical thought, civil discourse, and the "search button" to counter the fear mongering and race baiting that is coming from both the left and the right.*
My $0.02.
_________________________________________________
* IMO, the Trayvon Martin shooting reminds me a lot of the Edmund Perry shooting of 1985. That is, a sort of good-enough kid (depending upon who you ask) fails to understand the difference between having a bad attitude and being a bad ass and has the misfortune of paying for his misunderstanding with his life.
Respectfully, then, Sigaba you're wrong. As usual.
How is it "stirring the pot" when we link numerous news reports such as those posted in this thread that report utter racism in the intent of so many?
How many tweets did that dickhead Spike Lee put out? Enough to drive an innocent couple, in terror, out of their homes. That's not enough for you? The fact that Obama hasn't acted regarding the NBPP, New Black Militia, racist twitter account, illegal hoodie-wearing in session, blah-blah? When's it gonna be enough for you-when the fires and lootings start? Do you deny that this Country has endured fires and looting brought on by racist incidents such as OJ and Rodney King?
You're head's in the sand, bro. I'm not telling you to throw a f.cking sheet over your head, I'm giving you a head's up about trouble brewing in the street, and you continue to Poindexter my ass to death.
Wake up and smell the coffee, Sig-Obama didn't unite politicians nor did he unite the races. One of my main points is that he's exacerbated the problem, just as he did during the "cop acted stupidly" comedy.
This is serious, and it's being propagated by the left, and it isn't over.
Did you read the link above which states that the NBPP raised a "dead or alive" reward to 1 meelion dollars? And you're not worried about those assholes?
Please.
It is my belief that the NBPP is inconsequential.
Maybe the NBPP would seem more consequential if they put out a "hit" on you?
In some neighborhoods a good lead on huffing some spray paint - let alone $10k - will get the job done.
The NBPP among others are way out of line on this matter and leadership needs to acknowledge this.
No matter the outcome regarding Z - guilty or innocent of a crime - we don't need vigilante groups posting a bounty and stirring up trouble in the streets. This is not about race this is about the rule of law. Reverse the races and I would argue the same. The reason we have a justice system is to reach an appropriate conclusion and not take justice into our own hands.
The bounty is absolutely dangerous and unacceptable - period.
Stargazer
03-29-2012, 14:29
I believe that words mean things. I further believe that one's choice of words can activate those meanings even as those meanings are becoming increasingly anachronistic..
This is where you lose me. If one's words can activate meaning, than how is the following statement true .....
It is my belief that the NBPP is inconsequential. It is my view that the only power it has is the power we give to it.
How can it be true of those in leadership positions that have said and acted outrageously? What I have heard and observed as an AMERICAN is unsettling to say the least. Because like you, words have meaning to me....
99meters
03-29-2012, 15:26
Maybe the NBPP would seem more consequential if they put out a "hit" on you?
In some neighborhoods a good lead on huffing some spray paint - let alone $10k - will get the job done.
The NBPP among others are way out of line on this matter and leadership needs to acknowledge this.
No matter the outcome regarding Z - guilty or innocent of a crime - we don't need vigilante groups posting a bounty and stirring up trouble in the streets. This is not about race this is about the rule of law. Reverse the races and I would argue the same. The reason we have a justice system is to reach an appropriate conclusion and not take justice into our own hands.
The bounty is absolutely dangerous and unacceptable - period.
Do you feel somebody would actually be able to collect on such a hit. Is this f%cking Hollywood, you put a bounty on someone's head and the world goes crazy?
There is enough shit posted in this thread to match what the media is putting out.
Do you feel somebody would actually be able to collect on such a hit.
Yeah, collection may be a problem...but the desired effect...another story.
We don't need no stinking bounties - maybe focus the anger there.
For cripes sake the New Orleans Saints put a bounty on knocking some dudes out of a game and Sigaba and others almost had an aneurysm.
YMMV
Do you feel somebody would actually be able to collect on such a hit. Is this f%cking Hollywood, you put a bounty on someone's head and the world goes crazy?
There is enough shit posted in this thread to match what the media is putting out.
Do you feel somebody would actually be able to collect on such a hit.
Is that a question? If so, then, no; but that's not the purpose of the action. Surprise!
Is this f.cking Hollywood, you put a bounty on someone's head and the world goes crazy?
No. What movie was that? I missed it.
There is enough shit posted in this thread to match what the media is putting out.
Specifically what "shit"?
longrange1947
03-29-2012, 15:40
Do you feel somebody would actually be able to collect on such a hit. Is this f%cking Hollywood, you put a bounty on someone's head and the world goes crazy?
There is enough shit posted in this thread to match what the media is putting out.
You don't live in the real world do you? Hell yes someone will try the hit, will they collect, have no idea, but there are enough idiots to try.
I will add that this will play right into the BS Obama Admin's plan to bring on more gun control. Believe me, this is already happening.
This has nothing to do with "poor Trayvon", everything to do with a crisis and taking advantage.
No, I do not wear a tin foil hat, I just read the crap that dribbles out of the mouths of the liberals.
If you do not believe there are idiots that will dream of their new ride wiht that money then you do live in a dream world.