View Full Version : Black militia group wants to arrest Trayvon Martin shooter
Yeah, collection may be a problem...but the desired effect...another story.
We don't need no stinking bounties - maybe focus the anger there.
For cripes sake the New Orleans Saints put a bounty on knocking some dudes out of a game and Sigaba and others almost had an aneurysm.
YMMV
In Sigaba's case? Almost, my ass.
I will add that this will play right into the BS Obama Admin's plan to bring on more gun control. Believe me, this is already happening.
NAILED.
In short, I don't think this is about the NBPP. I think that this is about how we, as individuals, {as well as groups, organizations, communities, and civic-minded Americans,} use critical thought, civil discourse, {public organizations,}and the "search button" to counter the fear mongering and race baiting that is coming from both the left and the right.
With the included caveats - I agree.
Or maybe we can try throwing MISO supported Cultural Support Teams into the fray to settle things down...kinda like playing Pashtun's and Persian's.
It is my view that the only power it has is the power we give to it.
As for inanimate things such as words, pictures, songs, literature, events and concepts.....I will agree with you there. They all have meaning, they are in essence a loaded gun and it is up to the individual whether or not to empower them or to ignore them.
People on the other hand are animate, they have a mind of their own, they make conscious decisions and control their own destiny. Granted that many times ignoring a person or persons will achieve the result needed, but in some cases ignoring the problem only emboldens the problem.
With the included caveats - I agree.
Or maybe we can try throwing MISO supported Cultural Support Teams into the fray to settle things down...kinda like playing Pashtun's and Persian's.
It's not the physical danger that the militants represent; you and Sig seem to be missing the point.
The danger is that the POTUS gets involved in such a manner as to nail down the notion to everyone who hasn't clapped his hands over his eyes that he has taken sides in the racial issue, reinforcing the truth that liberals use this type of fear-mongering as a political tool.
Then, typically, the WH issues a statement that the f.cking Republicans are the ones who are politicizing the incident.
Anyone who's cool with that HAS to be in the tank for the current administration.
This is where you lose me. If one's words can activate meaning, than how is the following statement true .....
How can it be true of those in leadership positions that have said and acted outrageously? What I have heard and observed as an AMERICAN is unsettling to say the least. Because like you, words have meaning to me....Stargazer--
The basis of my statement stems from my understanding of black political activity. Political power does not simply flow from the top down nor does it radiate from the center outward. Just because someone issues a press release, or gives a sermon at a church, or holds forth on a talk radio show, or gets on an airplane, clasps hands with bereaved family members, and marches in protest does not mean that person is the HNIC.
And even if many nod their heads in acknowledgement, it does not necessarily indicate fixed agreement. (One of the many reasons I hold the current president is low esteem is because he allows his constituents to believe that he and they are on the same page even though it is patently clear--at least to me--that he doesn't even have a copy of the book.)
I believe the NBPP is inconsequential because it is predicated upon the concept of black nationalism and, from there, pan-African nationalism. These concepts were resuscitated and re-debated during the late 1980s and the early 1990s but they did not take hold.
Moreover, the NBPP lacks intellectual and political legitimacy. It does not have a firm understanding of the issues it purports to address. It does not offer sustainable plans that will have a positive impact on the every day lives of their intended constituents. And it and, to put it concisely, its rank and file members look like kids trying to play dress up.
This is not to say that all talk is cheap or that those making inflammatory and outrageous comments should be given a pass just because they belong to one cohort or another. What I'm saying is that it helps if one has in place the knowledge of how a cohort communicates so that one does not mistake the sizzling spam for a steak.
The danger is that the POTUS gets involved in such a manner as to nail down the notion to everyone who hasn't clapped his hands over his eyes that he has taken sides in the racial issue...
Showing a bit of empathy to the plight of the family and towards an on-going issue of national concern (youth shootings), and then letting the legal system run its course amidst all the politically polarized foofarah a situation like this brings about, is "taking sides"...:confused:
And...if he had said nothing...:confused:
However, I do agree that a major problem here that only tends to make matters perceptually worse is with this POTUS' quixotic "lead by absentia" style.
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
Maybe the NBPP would seem more consequential if they put out a "hit" on you?I respectfully request that you check your tone. Or, that you take the time to read carefully my posts before making an attempt to be snarky.
(Or, if you prefer, we can roll around in the mud for a little while.:rolleyes: In which case, I'd ask you the following question: If you really are so convinced that the NBPP represents a threat to public safety and the rule of law, precisely what actions have you taken to address the situation?:munchin)
I also request that you consider the possibility that there are members of American society who have personally experienced situations in which LEOs have hit the panic button because citizens have put on their asshats instead of their thinking caps. While in my experience and to my knowledge, no bounties were offered, the threat of violence under the color of authority was real enough.*
A number of threads on this BB discuss the expansion of this dynamic and what might be done to counter it. MOO, addressing this dynamic in ways that increase public confidence in the rule of law and inspire more trust in LEOs is the fish to fry -- not the New Bogeyman Party.
YMMV.
_________________________________________
* One such incident went something like this. One prowl car, two prowl cars, a third and a helicopter. Sir, under what authority are you stopping me from going for a walk? [Hands are put on firearms, a GSD growls, an officer quotes a section of the municipal code chapter and verse.] Yes, sir. No, sir. I am reaching into my pocket to take out my wallet, sir. I am reaching into my wallet to take out my ID, sir. Yes, sir. Thank you, sir. You too, have a nice evening.:boohoo
Entire post.
I once saw a bounty situation work in person in real time on the street - it wasn't pretty.
The cohorts did not use the search button, critical thought, or engage in civilized discourse. However, the effect was immediate and undeniable.
I wasn't being snarky I was serious. IMO, the threat to Z by virtue of a bounty is real and not inconsequential. If you were in his shoes it might become more consequential to you, too. It helps if a cohort has in place the experience to know a bounty from a paper towel.
99meters
03-29-2012, 18:07
A number of threads on this BB discuss the expansion of this dynamic and what might be done to counter it. MOO, addressing this dynamic in ways that increase public confidence in the rule of law and inspire more trust in LEOs is the fish to fry -- not the New Bogeyman Party.
YMMV.
_________________________________________
* One such incident went something like this. One prowl car, two prowl cars, a third and a helicopter. Sir, under what authority are you stopping me from going for a walk? [Hands are put on firearms, a GSD growls, an officer quotes a section of the municipal code chapter and verse.] Yes, sir. No, sir. I am reaching into my pocket to take out my wallet, sir. I am reaching into my wallet to take out my ID, sir. Yes, sir. Thank you, sir. You too, have a nice evening.:boohoo
The black community trusting their LEOs should be added to MLK dreams.
At least some are seeing the root of the problem.
Showing a bit of empathy to the plight of the family and towards an on-going issue of national concern (youth shootings), and then letting the legal system run its course amidst all the politically polarized foofarah a situation like this brings about, is "taking sides"...:confused:
And...if he had said nothing...:confused:
However, I do agree that a major problem here that only tends to make matters perceptually worse is with this POTUS' quixotic "lead by absentia" style.
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
Whatever. I'm retired. I don't have to train anybody anymore, or win anybody's hearts or minds.
Go blissfully into the future, with the strains of the NPR theme chiming softly background. ;)
Go blissfully into the future, with the strains of the NPR theme chiming softly background. ;)
Actually...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us-TVg40ExM
Richard :munchin
Actually...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us-TVg40ExM
Richard :munchin
Beautiful sound - I've enjoyed that vid for some time.
:lifter
Actually...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us-TVg40ExM
Richard :munchin
Very cool. I looped it. ;)
(I kinda favor Grandpa Elliott, too.) :D
Some people get arrested....
Trayvon Martin: Brevard man arrested for threatening Sanford police chief, cops say
7:51 p.m. EST, March 23, 2012|
By Jeff Weiner, Orlando Sentinel
A Melbourne Beach man upset by the Trayvon Martin shooting investigation was arrested Friday, accused of sending a profanity laced, threatening email to Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee Jr.
Seminole County deputies began investigating Thursday, after 68-year-old John Carnduff Stewart sent an 8:23 a.m. email to Lee with the subject line "Coming after you," the Sheriff's Office said.
"You and your family deserve to be hunted down and shot like a dog, just like Trayvon Martin," deputies said Stewart wrote. He called the Sanford Police Department "bigoted" and "unprofessional."
"I have more weapons than your entire police department and I would love to use some of them to take you down," the email says. Stewart ended his message, deputies say, with his home address.
"I dare you to visit my home or send one of your officers and find out exactly how long you or other police officers would last," says the short email, which was released Friday afternoon.
Investigators took Stewart up on his dare Friday morning, searching his home and finding "additional threatening emails" on his computer. He confessed to sending Lee the email, deputies say.
"I know what this is about," Stewart told investigators, according to his arrest report. "I sent the emails, and I wanted to piss them off."
Seminole County officials said Stewart "is known to authorities" for sending similar emails in the past. He was booked into the Brevard County Jail, and later was transferred to Seminole County.
He faces a charge of written threats to kill or do bodily injury, a second-degree felony.
Officials say Stewart was once investigated by Penn State University authorities for threats against Mike McQueary, a former assistant football coach and witness in the PSU sex abuse scandal.
The shooting of Martin, an unarmed 17-year-old, has sparked a national controversy. Many have criticized the investigation of the case, and SPD's decision not to arrest shooter George Zimmerman.
Lee stepped down as Sanford Police Deparment chief temporarily on Thursday, pending the outcome of state and federal investigations of the Feb. 26 shooting death.
jeweiner@tribune.com or 407-420-5171
ZonieDiver
03-29-2012, 20:37
* IMO, the Trayvon Martin shooting reminds me a lot of the Edmund Perry shooting of 1985. That is, a sort of good-enough kid (depending upon who you ask) fails to understand the difference between having a bad attitude and being a bad ass and has the misfortune of paying for his misunderstanding with his life.
Thank you for this cogent example. I spent the last couple days speaking to groups of young people - Latino, Black, Native American, Asian, and White about this situation. NOT one class was aware of who the NBPP was, or that it existed... or that the BPP had said, in effect, that they were 'posers'. I also pointed out that it can be hard for some people to denote that they were simply "playing" at being "gangstas" instead of actually BEING "gangstas," which could have severely deleterious effects upon their futures.
On a separate note, I've detected a kind of nasty response to Sigaba's contrarian positiions here. I don't always agree with him, but I think his responses come from his heart and his mind... and I rarely detect a lot of "snark" or nastiness. I'd ask all to cool it a bit. But that's just me.
This situation WILL play out. Cooler heads WILL prevail. Elements of the MSM will be made to look like morons, as usual. The POTUS will be shown to be what he is - an ineffective and ineffectual leader.
And... here in Phoenix, as the temperature climbs, the demonstrations decline - especially those in hoodies.:D
alright4u
03-30-2012, 04:29
Respectfully, then, Sigaba you're wrong. As usual.
How is it "stirring the pot" when we link numerous news reports such as those posted in this thread that report utter racism in the intent of so many?
How many tweets did that dickhead Spike Lee put out? Enough to drive an innocent couple, in terror, out of their homes. That's not enough for you? The fact that Obama hasn't acted regarding the NBPP, New Black Militia, racist twitter account, illegal hoodie-wearing in session, blah-blah? When's it gonna be enough for you-when the fires and lootings start? Do you deny that this Country has endured fires and looting brought on by racist incidents such as OJ and Rodney King?
You're head's in the sand, bro. I'm not telling you to throw a f.cking sheet over your head, I'm giving you a head's up about trouble brewing in the street, and you continue to Poindexter my ass to death.
Wake up and smell the coffee, Sig-Obama didn't unite politicians nor did he unite the races. One of my main points is that he's exacerbated the problem, just as he did during the "cop acted stupidly" comedy.
This is serious, and it's being propagated by the left, and it isn't over.
Did you read the link above which states that the NBPP raised a "dead or alive" reward to 1 meelion dollars? And you're not worried about those assholes?
Please.
Obama has played divide and conquer and pitting one group against the other time after time.
He has pitted this social class after this one many times. Look at the class warfare he encouraged with the rich being the bad guys. Let's look at occupy wall street types that he actively encouraged. The list goes on and on. Hell he was a community agitator trained by a killer named Ayers.
.
On a separate note, I've detected a kind of nasty response to Sigaba's contrarian positiions here. I don't always agree with him, but I think his responses come from his heart and his mind... and I rarely detect a lot of "snark" or nastiness. I'd ask all to cool it a bit. But that's just me.
This situation WILL play out. Cooler heads WILL prevail. Elements of the MSM will be made to look like morons, as usual. The POTUS will be shown to be what he is - an ineffective and ineffectual leader.
:D
Good points, Zonie, and WILCO. I gotta throw out a mea culpa for being hot-headed to Sig, without truly apologizing ;) , but he's put up with my ass for years, so he'll get over it.
I hope you're right about the situation.
I seriously hope you're right.
Thank you for this cogent example. I spent the last couple days speaking to groups of young people - Latino, Black, Native American, Asian, and White about this situation. NOT one class was aware of who the NBPP was, or that it existed... or that the BPP had said, in effect, that they were 'posers'. I also pointed out that it can be hard for some people to denote that they were simply "playing" at being "gangstas" instead of actually BEING "gangstas," which could have severely deleterious effects upon their futures.
Happy thought of the day, ZD - that ever elusive but always sought after "teachable moment." :lifter
Thanks.
Richard :munchin
My apologies to all if my tone was offensive.
Posting the Sanford police report and a respected law professor's analysis of the law of self-defense in Florida should have been enough.
Essentially, my irritation with our current political leadership (or lack thereof) to cool the knuckleheads might gotten been a bit too amped.
This is an excellent forum because of a variety of factors - not the least of which is the management, the mutual respect and the quality of folks involved.
Again, my apologies if I stepped out of line.
Iraqgunz
03-30-2012, 07:33
I too am tired of this President and his lack of leadership and the conduct of the AG. When the issue of Black Panthers intimidating voters in certain areas came to light I don't remember either of them speaking out.
Had that situation been reversed and it was the Klan or some other whacky white group they would have hammered them with the full force of the DOJ.
Then we have the President coming out making the stupid comment about Trayvon and that could have been my son. He should have kept his comments neutral and simply stated that the DOJ would assist the local police and that his feelings go out to all of those involved.
After the stupid NBPP statement the President and the AG both should have come out and stated that such behavior will not be tolerated and anyone found trying to interfere or escalate acts of violence will be hammered into the ground. `
In any case their behavior seems to be on par with the last 3.5 years. I can only hope that Holder sees the inside of a prison cell for his involvement in Fast and Furious. But, I won't hold my breath.
Streck-Fu
03-30-2012, 07:45
Everything about this case is being manipulated by the parents lawyer.
LINK (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2012/03/30/national/a001219D40.DTL)
More than a month later, there still has been no arrest.
But thanks largely to Crump's efforts, the case has stirred marches and rallies around the nation, merited comment from President Barack Obama, led to the resignation of the Sanford police chief and brought scrutiny from the U.S. Department of Justice into this Orlando suburb of 55,000 residents.
"When you have the president commenting on the matter and you have celebrities and politicians wearing their hoodies as a symbol of the cause that you're representing, and it has taken over the world's attention, this is overwhelming in a sense," said Crump, who was in Washington for several days of meeting with members of Congress and appearing on national news shows. "We've been pushing relentlessly day and night."
Crump's strategy for making the case international news began with a series of heart-wrenching news conferences in which Martin's parents spoke about their loss. Florida media outlets began to notice. Then, he enlisted U.S. Rep. Corrine Brown to help convince authorities to release 911 tapes, recordings that brought the case to the attention of national media. He's further ratcheted pressure on authorities by organizing a series of rallies and working with national civil rights figures such as Al Sharpton.
The push began not long after Martin's death on the night of Feb. 26. Martin, wearing a hoodie, was walking home from a Sanford, Fla. convenience store when he was spotted by neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman, who called a police dispatcher to report Martin as suspicious. There was a confrontation, and Martin was shot. Zimmerman has told detectives he shot Martin in self-defense.
.................
Crump and his law partner, Daryl Parks, are Tallahassee-based personal injury attorneys who primarily handle wrongful death and negligence cases. But their everyday work often involves civil rights issues.
"Daryl and Ben look at things in a broader perspective," said James Messer, a Tallahassee attorney who serves on the board of the Tallahassee Bar Association with Crump. "While there may be a wrongful death issue, it involves, in their eyes, more than anything a civil rights cause ... (Crump) has a passion for issues that have something to do with civil rights violations."
Stargazer
03-30-2012, 10:26
Stargazer-- your response
Thank you, Sigaba, for providing me with insight into your reasoning.
Your understanding of black political activity goes far beyond mine as an observer. I will even suggest that it goes beyond the perspective of most Americans. I just don't see the majority of individuals giving that level of thought to anything. Most are busy with the business of everyday life and don't get involved in matters until they feel a direct impact. This is why I find the words of those in visible leadership positions that are less than impeccable and lacking in credibility so concerning. That sentiment is felt by the majority of people based on what I hear. It is not just the actions of the black political activity that must be considered but the reaction by those on the receiving end. There will be 'an equal or opposite reaction.'
At the grassroot level -- people are dealing with a lot of factors in this country. Tolerance levels are lowering and uncertainty of ones personal security increases unrest. We are becoming a powder keg.... I pray that ZonieDiver is right, that "cooler heads will prevail". Truly I do....
Entire post.
Nailed it IMHO. Much of the "leadership" in this case has an agenda, and the rest of America which is on the receiving end of their dribble probably won't recognize it for what it is.
Sigaba, while I don't always agree with you either, even in areas where you definitely know more than I :D, if the masses gave even a fraction of the critical thought in their decisions as you put in to your responses, this country probably wouldn't be in the situation that it is, hell, there is a good chance this thread would have never been. :lifter
Lamestream Media strikes again.....
NBC News Accused of Editing 911 Call in Trayvon Martin Controversy (Video)
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/trayvon-martin-nbc-news-editing-911-call-306359
".........In the NBC segment, Zimmerman says: “This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.”
The full version, though, unfolds like this:
Zimmerman: “This guy looks like he’s up to no good, or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.”
911 operator: “Okay. And this guy, is he white black or Hispanic?”
Zimmerman: “He looks black.”.................."
This has been floating around the last couple of days on the air. This was the first print story I found.
Lamestream Media strikes again.....
NBC News Accused of Editing 911 Call in Trayvon Martin Controversy (Video)
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/trayvon-martin-nbc-news-editing-911-call-306359
".........In the NBC segment, Zimmerman says: “This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.”
The full version, though, unfolds like this:
Zimmerman: “This guy looks like he’s up to no good, or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.”
911 operator: “Okay. And this guy, is he white black or Hispanic?”
Zimmerman: “He looks black.”.................."
This has been floating around the last couple of days on the air. This was the first print story I found.
That pisses me off. :mad:
Sigabaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=50546
If it had been a white teenager who was shot, and a 28-year-old black guy who shot him, the black guy would have been arrested.
So assert those demanding the arrest of George Zimmerman, who shot and killed Trayvon Martin.
And they may be right.
Yet if Trayvon had been shot dead by a black neighborhood watch volunteer, Jesse Jackson would not have been in a pulpit in Sanford, Fla., howling that he had been "murdered and martyred."
Maxine Waters would not be screaming "hate crime."
Rep. Hank Johnson would not be raging that Trayvon had been "executed." And ex-Black Panther Bobby Rush would not have been wearing a hoodie in the well of the House.
Which tells you what this whipped-up hysteria is all about.
It is not about finding the truth about what happened that night in Sanford when Zimmerman followed Trayvon in his SUV, and the two wound up in a fight, with Trayvon dead.
It is about the exacerbation of and the exploitation of racial conflict.
And it is about an irreconcilable conflict of visions about what the real America is in the year 2012.
Zimmerman "profiled" Trayvon, we are told. And perhaps he did.
But why? What did George Zimmerman, self-styled protector of his gated community, see that night from the wheel of his SUV?
He saw a male. And males are 90 percent of prison inmates. He saw a stranger over 6 feet tall. And he saw a black man or youth with a hood over his head.
Why would this raise Zimmerman's antennae?
Perhaps because black males between 16 and 36, though only 2 to 3 percent of the population, are responsible for a third of all our crimes.
In some cities, 40 percent of all black males are in jail or prison, on probation or parole, or have criminal records. This is not a product of white racism but of prosecutions and convictions of criminal acts.
Had Zimmerman seen a black woman or older man in his neighborhood, he likely would never have tensed up or called in.
For all the abuse he has received, Geraldo Rivera had a point.
Whenever cable TV runs hidden-camera footage of a liquor or convenience store being held up and someone behind the counter being shot, the perp is often a black male wearing a hoodie.
Listening to the heated rhetoric coming from demonstrations around the country, from the Black Caucus and TV talkers -- about how America is a terrifying place for young black males to grow up in because of the constant danger from white vigilantes -- one wonders what country of the mind these people are living in.
The real America is a country where the black crime rate is seven times as high as the white rate. It is a country where white criminals choose black victims in 3 percent of their crimes, but black criminals choose white victims in 45 percent of their crimes.
Black journalists point to the racism manifest even in progressive cities, where cabs deliberately pass them by to pick up white folks down the block.
That this happens is undeniable. But, again, what is behind it?
As Heather Mac Donald of the Manhattan Institute has written, from January to June 2008 in New York City, 83 percent of all identified gun assailants were black and 15 percent were Hispanics.
Together, blacks and Hispanics accounted for 98 percent of gun assaults.
Translated: If a cabdriver is going to be mugged or murdered in New York City by a fare, 49 times out of 50 his assailant or killer will be black or Hispanic.
Fernando Mateo of the New York State Federation of Taxi Drivers has told his drivers, "Profile your passengers" for your own protection. "The God's honest truth is that 99 percent of the people that are robbing, stealing, killing these guys are blacks and Hispanics."
Fernando Mateo is himself black and Hispanic.
To much of America's black leadership and its media auxiliaries, what happened in Sanford was, as Jesse put it, that an innocent kid was "shot down in cold blood by a vigilante."
Yet, from police reports, witness statements, and the father and friends of Zimmerman, another picture emerges.
Zimmerman followed Trayvon, confronted him, and was punched in the nose, knocked flat on his back and jumped on, getting his head pounded, when he pulled his gun and fired. That Trayvon's body was found face down, not face up, would tend to support this.
But, to Florida Congresswoman Federica Wilson, "this sweet young boy ... was hunted down like a dog, shot on the street, and his killer is still at large."
Some Sanford police believed Zimmerman; others did not.
But now that it is being investigated by a special prosecutor, the FBI, the Justice Department and a coming grand jury, what is the purpose of this venomous portrayal of George Zimmerman?
As yet convicted of no crime, he is being crucified in the arena of public opinion as a hate-crime monster and murderer.
Is this our idea of justice?
No. But if the purpose here is to turn this into a national black-white face-off, instead of a mutual search for truth and justice, it is succeeding marvelously well.
@Stargazer @BofH
Thank you both.
MOO, there may be a 'translation' issue at play in which some cohorts of Americans miss completely how other cohorts are discussing/debating issues intensely because we do not know how to decode the transmissions.
As an example, say you're at a stop light and some guy pulls up along side of you, his car stereo blaring. Because the driver strikes you as a douche bag and because you don't care for the music, you just hear noise.
You glance at him, he glares at you, light turns green, and you go on with your lives. Missed in the exchange are the lyrics and the sensibility of the music and the layered, nuanced, conflicted meanings therein. (And if you listen to certain genres of certain types of music, beneath the "noise" is often a pointed message: Hey, youngster, maybe you should think about getting your head out of your ass and pulling your life together because all of this bling bling stuff has a really short shelf life.*)
The guy drives to a friend's house to have a few laughs and to watch the latest Tyler Perry film. In this film, Mr. Perry puts on a dress and acts like a fool. Yet, just beneath the surface is a sustained blistering critique of certain lifestyle choices and a discussion of viable alternatives.
Maybe the guy gets the memo. Maybe he doesn't. (To paraphrase Freud, sometimes a douche bag is just a douche bag.) Maybe the guy already got the memo, and he's trying to figure out as he applies to college. My point is, the memos are being written and sent out. Sometimes, they just get lost in translation.
IMO, the third rail in these types of discussions is humiliation. Like many--if not most--Americans, blacks do not like to be humiliated. However, there is a long terrible history of American civilization being geared to do just that. I think that while many Americans are doing what they can to dismantle this towering relic of our collective past, it continues to dominate the landscape and shape how issues of race are discussed.
My $0.02.
____________________________________
* MOO, before he turned his focus to television, Ice-T was especially good at raising such questions. Now, he mostly uses Twitter to put people in check.
@Stargazer @BofH
Thank you both.
MOO, there may be a 'translation' issue at play in which some cohorts of Americans miss completely how other cohorts are discussing/debating issues intensely because we do not know how to decode the transmissions.
As an example, say you're at a stop light and some guy pulls up along side of you, his car stereo blaring. Because the driver strikes you as a douche bag and because you don't care for the music, you just hear noise.
You glance at him, he glares at you, light turns green, and you go on with your lives. Missed in the exchange are the lyrics and the sensibility of the music and the layered, nuanced, conflicted meanings therein. (And if you listen to certain genres of certain types of music, beneath the "noise" is often a pointed message: Hey, youngster, maybe you should think about getting your head out of your ass and pulling your life together because all of this bling bling stuff has a really short shelf life.*)
The guy drives to a friend's house to have a few laughs and to watch the latest Tyler Perry film. In this film, Mr. Perry puts on a dress and acts like a fool. Yet, just beneath the surface is a sustained blistering critique of certain lifestyle choices and a discussion of viable alternatives.
Maybe the guy gets the memo. Maybe he doesn't. (To paraphrase Freud, sometimes a douche bag is just a douche bag.) Maybe the guy already got the memo, and he's trying to figure out as he applies to college. My point is, the memos are being written and sent out. Sometimes, they just get lost in translation.
IMO, the third rail in these types of discussions is humiliation. Like many--if not most--Americans, blacks do not like to be humiliated. However, there is a long terrible history of American civilization being geared to do just that. I think that while many Americans are doing what they can to dismantle this towering relic of our collective past, it continues to dominate the landscape and shape how issues of race are discussed.
My $0.02.
____________________________________
* MOO, before he turned his focus to television, Ice-T was especially good at raising such questions. Now, he mostly uses Twitter to put people in check.
Can you explain why the black cohort and the Latino cohort commit, together, 98 percent of the taxi cab robberies in the Big Apple?
Can you explain why the black cohort and the Latino cohort commit, together, 98 percent of the taxi cab robberies in the Big Apple?
Maybe they don't like Pakistanis?
The Reaper
03-30-2012, 21:53
Not to be blunt, but at what point are we done buying large groups of people off and begin to hold them accountable for their actions?
When I hear someone next to me playing rude, racist, sexist, misogynistic, sociopathic, and obnoxious music at loud volumes, my first thought is what an asshole they are, and the second is why do they seem to think that I want to hear their selection of "music?"
Seriously, I rarely hear anyone blaring country music, and never classical.
Why is it that people who play rap seem to think that everyone else must be subjected to it?
TR
Can you explain why the black cohort and the Latino cohort commit, together, 98 percent of the taxi cab robberies in the Big Apple?
The answer to your question is "no." I am not a criminologist, a sociologist, nor an urban historian.
In my neighborhood, the deadbeats, thieves, and lowlifes are white. I don't know if using race as my prime descriptor helps my ability to figure out what is going on. I am pretty sure that thinking in such terms isn't going to help me get to where I want to go as a person.
longrange1947
03-30-2012, 22:10
However, there is a long terrible history of American civilization being geared to do just that. I think that while many Americans are doing what they can to dismantle this towering relic of our collective past, it continues to dominate the landscape and shape how issues of race are discussed.
And will continue to do so as long as the NAACP, Jesse, and Al and all the other race baiters continue to over react to everything perceived as racial. Maybe it is just an asshole, maybe just an uncouth idiot, zero race involved. However, it becomes racial with them and they push it to make sure they have traction and they continue to receive the power that goes along with it.
MOO but the damn "journalists", as in NBC, that edit, not for brevity but for sensationalism, should be fired and damned by all. :mad:
And Sigaba, you turn a pretty phrase here and there, but on the whole I feel a lot of it is Bovine Scatology of the male type. :munchin
Not to be blunt, but at what point are we done buying large groups of people off and begin to hold them accountable for their actions?
TR
As long as they create children with no future and walk away, I suspect that that we'll continue to clean up their messes.
Doesn't that make *us* the maids?
99meters
03-31-2012, 01:23
Can you explain why the black cohort and the Latino cohort commit, together, 98 percent of the taxi cab robberies in the Big Apple?
Because "people" are messed up. 99% of the meth-heads I deal with are white. 99% of the juveniles I deal with for popping pills or doing cocaine are white. Most hate crimes a committed by white males. Most serial killers are white males.
People are messed up, you can't just profile by race.
Because "people" are messed up. 99% of the meth-heads I deal with are white. 99% of the juveniles I deal with for popping pills or doing cocaine are white. Most hate crimes a committed by white males. Most serial killers are white males.
People are messed up, you can't just profile by race.
It all depends on where you live.
"Cumberland County arrest mug shots"
http://photos.fayobserver.com/mycapture/folder.asp?event=1169414&CategoryID=57434&ListSubAlbums=0&thisPage=1
4 pages of citizens from the county. I didn't count by color or sex but it doesn't look like the Mall Crowd.
Streck-Fu
03-31-2012, 06:29
IMO, the third rail in these types of discussions is humiliation. Like many--if not most--Americans, blacks do not like to be humiliated. However, there is a long terrible history of American civilization being geared to do just that. I think that while many Americans are doing what they can to dismantle this towering relic of our collective past, it continues to dominate the landscape and shape how issues of race are discussed.
The black American community does far more to hinder their own progress by promoting behaviors that are counter to success; whether the supporting the gang, thug, pimp, womanizing, multiple children out of wedlock and unprovided for, etc.
The Man is not making them do this. It is an internal culture problem. When you have even the successful black Americans (I use this term because I have known many Africans and none wanted anything to do with 'African' Americans) in the Congressional Black Caucus calling any black person not supporting their entitlement programs an "Oreo: Black on the outside, white on the inside." the non black people are not the problem.
Because "people" are messed up. 99% of the meth-heads I deal with are white. 99% of the juveniles I deal with for popping pills or doing cocaine are white. Most hate crimes a committed by white males. Most serial killers are white males.
People are messed up, you can't just profile by race.
Stats?
The answer to your question is "no." I am not a criminologist, a sociologist, nor an urban historian.
In my neighborhood, the deadbeats, thieves, and lowlifes are white.
How about posting stats on the crime in your neighborhood? You're not averse to backing up your posts, usually.
Literally anybody who doesn't plainly see what's going on is ignoring the truth because they want to, not because they're too stupid to get a grip on it.
Nearly all blacks vote Democrat. The madder they are at whites, the greater the racial discord, which makes it better for the Democrats. White guilt helped the Democrat win last time.
I am not going to search through topics to find these, but
TR's thoughts on music brought to mind a discussion we had where I mentioned David Allen Coe and Johnny Rebel after Sigaba discussed the nuances of Hip Hop and Rap.
Not all that long ago MTN Medic upset Shar with the use of 'The Mormon' and I apparently exacerbated the situation by saying in essence who cares.
We have been down this road before.
Sigaba you have brought words have meaning and they do consequences associated theme into at least one other discussion.....from what I recollect. And on many occasions you have brought in the dark side of our country's history as you have done in this topic.
All of which is valid, though the consequences associated with words are potential not guaranteed.
However the transmission I have receive from those offerings is your offering a excuse for the bad behavior.
On this topic however you added another piece to the puzzle....empowerment. On one hand you tell us that we should ignore people, in this case the NBPP so that we do not empower them. But on the other hand you have not addressed empowerment in regards to words, events, etc. and what or who empowers such things.
For example, TR's comment:
When I hear someone next to me playing rude, racist, sexist, misogynistic, sociopathic, and obnoxious music at loud volumes, my first thought is what an asshole they are, and the second is why do they seem to think that I want to hear their selection of "music?"
The cars occupants have forced TR to listen to their music at a time and place.
TR makes the decision to empower to whatever degree, the occupants, the music and the event. He decides to enjoy it, accept it, ignore it and drive off, confront the music or he decides to get out and confront the individual(s).
Sigaba, you can call me the trigger phrase White Boy, but it is up to me to embrace you, accept it, ignore you or to pull the trigger.
I can't control whether you poke me with a pencil, I can't control how many times you have done it, whether it is by accident or with intent to provoke or harm me...........but it will be solely my decision how I react.
But what about words words, events, etc.? Should we not treat them in the same manner as you suggest we should treat the NBPP, possible even more so?
This is a cool site.
http://spotcrime.com/nc/fayetteville
You can walk it in and move it about. If you know the area you can make an assumption or three.
Destrier
03-31-2012, 07:10
Because "people" are messed up. 99% of the meth-heads I deal with are white. 99% of the juveniles I deal with for popping pills or doing cocaine are white. Most hate crimes a committed by white males. Most serial killers are white males.
People are messed up, you can't just profile by race.
"Most of the 'prosecuted' hate crimes are white" there is an appearance of double standard in this particular type of crime in my opinion.
There is a significant difference between doing a target/threat analysis for the area your at and racial profiling.
Mexican border... hmm racial profiling or common sense? to check a group of hispanics with back packs and a water bottle.
Downtown Rochester Ny, racial profiling or common damn sense to be wary of guy sporting gang tats, following a lone individual walking down the street.
Population density, racial make up of an area, propensity of criminal activity for groups of people in a region,
That is not racial profiling it is simply reality and having situation awareness.
Surgicalcric
03-31-2012, 07:19
...I don't know if using race as my prime descriptor helps my ability to figure out what is going on. I am pretty sure that thinking in such terms isn't going to help me get to where I want to go as a person.
Maybe you could explain this to the individuals, in the black community, fueling these types of issues.
Fact of the matter is blacks and blacks alone are now responsible for their lot in life, not whitey. The NAACP, ACLU, Congressional Black Caucus (the cry from the black community if there was a NAAWP or white caucus would be incredible), and organizations like them are self-licking icecream cones who must keep black people in a perceived state of inequality or the key individuals in those organizations would be many left without a microphone and paycheck.
The thread was started to discuss a current event. This being a discussion board, I assume the news to be a valid topic for discussion.
Some posters here seem to want to shut down points of view which are based on statistical facts in order to avoid ire from one side or the other of the argument.
If you want to convice me your points are valid, then post statistical proof that will hold up under the scrutiny of at least a cursory investigation. I don't care about the sensitivity of an issue, as long as it's legal to talk about and doesn't violate security. Just don't make blanket, politically correct statements and expect me to fall for it.
Edited excerpts below from the Juan Williams WSJ article that was posted by Mack27 in post #212 in this thread. Mr. Williams may be on to something.
At the risk of being labeled insensitive, given the brouhaha, one statistic cited in the Williams piece jumped out at me...>90% of black murder victims are killed by other blacks.
So, I pulled a USDOJ report that might have been the basis for the comments made by Mr. Williams to see if what he suggested had merit. I found the following link:
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm
From the report at the link:
From 1976 to 2005 --
86% of white victims were killed by whites
94% of black victims were killed by blacks
Edited excerpts from Juan Williams WSJ article:
The race-baiters argue this case deserves special attention...
The shooting death of Trayvon Martin in Florida has sparked national outrage, with civil rights leaders from San Francisco to Baltimore leading protests calling for a new investigation and the arrest of the shooter.
But what about all the other young black murder victims?
Nationally, nearly half of all murder victims are black. And the overwhelming majority of those black people are killed by other black people. Where is the march for them?
The most recent comprehensive study on black-on-black crime from the Justice Department should have been a clarion call for the black community to take action. There is no reason to believe that the trends it reported have decreased since 2005, the year for which the data were reported.
Almost one half of the nation's murder victims that year were black and a majority of them were between the ages of 17 and 29. Black people accounted for 13% of the total U.S. population in 2005. Yet they were the victims of 49% of all the nation's murders. And 93% of black murder victims were killed by other black people, according to the same report.
The killing of any child is a tragedy. But where are the protests regarding the larger problems facing black America?
The killing of any child is a tragedy. But where are the protests regarding the larger problems facing black America?
Same thing Blair asked. Haven't heard much from him, since...
Were his statements "racist"?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2007/apr/12/ukcrime.race
Tony Blair yesterday claimed the spate of knife and gun murders in London was not being caused by poverty, but a distinctive black culture. His remarks angered community leaders, who accused him of ignorance and failing to provide support for black-led efforts to tackle the problem.
One accused him of misunderstanding the advice he had been given on the issue at a Downing Street summit.
Black community leaders reacted after Mr Blair said the recent violence should not be treated as part of a general crime wave, but as specific to black youth. He said people had to drop their political correctness and recognise that the violence would not be stopped "by pretending it is not young black kids doing it".
It needed to be addressed by a tailored counter-attack in the same way as football hooliganism was reined in by producing measures aimed at the specific problem, rather than general lawlessness.
Mr Blair's remarks are at odds with those of the Home Office minister Lady Scotland, who told the home affairs select committee last month that the disproportionate number of black youths in the criminal justice system was a function of their disproportionate poverty, and not to do with a distinctive black culture.
Giving the Callaghan lecture in Cardiff, the prime minister admitted he had been "lurching into total frankness" in the final weeks of his premiership. He called on black people to lead the fight against knife crime. He said that "the black community - the vast majority of whom in these communities are decent, law abiding people horrified at what is happening - need to be mobilised in denunciation of this gang culture that is killing innocent young black kids".
If you want to convice me your points are valid, then post statistical proof that will hold up under the scrutiny of at least a cursory investigation.
Not to support any particular viewpoint, but just "because it's there". All info from the Feds, 2004 or 2007, depending on latest available.
% children 6 to 18 mother less than high school completion
White 5
Black 13
% Enrolled in Head Start
White 7
Black 25
Grades 6 thru 12
...............%Suspended........... %Expelled
White ..................16................ 1
Black ................... 43............... 13
Births per 1000 females 15-19
White 27.2
Black 64.3
No husband in household
White 9
Black 30
Household income
Husband and wife worked $101,961
One worker $63,581
Links available on request. Omitted for brevity.
No husband in household
White 9
Black 30
That stat's key.
Initially Rev. Al's outrage was that this incident was a racially-motivated "hate crime." Now he is just outraged that Z hasn't been arrested..
Al Sharpton: Civil disobedience will escalate if Zimmerman remains free
2:22 p.m. EST, March 30, 2012|
By Arelis R. Hernández, Orlando Sentinel
If George Zimmerman is not arrested in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin soon, theRev. Al Sharpton will call for an escalation in peaceful civil disobedience and economic sanctions.
Sharpton would not say the efforts would be taken against the city of Sanford specifically, but he has been critical of the police department's handling of the case.
Saturday's scheduled 11 a.m. march from Crooms Academy of Information Technology to the Sanford Police Department headquarters was organized by National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. Coordinators said people will be bused in from other states to participate.
The civil rights activist and syndicated television show host said he will elaborate on this plan Saturday.
"I will speak about how the National Action Network will move to the next level if Zimmerman isn't arrested," Sharpton said, who founded the organization. He added that it was the Martin family and lawyers who first asked him to get involved and nationalize this story.
TheRev. Jesse Jacksonis also expected to participate in the event.
The case has ignited ire and debate across the nation, galvanizing thousands of Trayvon supporters to the streets and social media, donning hoodies and toting Skittles.
Sanford police this week released a video of a handcuffed George Zimmerman apparently showing no visible signs of physical injury after he claimed that he shot the 17-year-old Miami teenager in self-defense.
Zimmerman's family have come to his defense on national news networks, releasing details about his version of what happened the night of Feb. 26 when police found the teen face down in wet grass.
Sharpton said the recent revelations only underscores the need for an immediate arrest and trial.
"Whether he [Zimmerman] had a swollen or broken nose, neither one means he had to take a 9mm and kill someone," he said. "It's not about saying Zimmerman is innocent or guilty, this is about whether there was probable cause to arrest him."
He criticized the way authorities have released information about the case and said they are setting a harmful precedent, he said.
Sanford city officials announced several road closures in anticipation of the march including 13th street, from U.S. Highway 17-92 to Lake Avenue; as well as, Persimmon Street from McCracken Road to 13th.
The demonstration is expected to end at 2 p.m., organizers said.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-30/news/os-george-zimmerman-trayvon-al-sharpton-20120330_1_civil-disobedience-national-action-network-national-association
Destrier
03-31-2012, 10:02
The most recent comprehensive study on black-on-black crime from the Justice Department should have been a clarion call for the black community to take action.
Who says it hasn't.
If you have a problem of infighting in your merry band of men. Giving them a common goal has a good effect typically.
In this case black on black crime. You refocus with a common enemy.
End state, less black on black crime.
99meters
03-31-2012, 10:15
"Most of the 'prosecuted' hate crimes are white" there is an appearance of double standard in this particular type of crime in my opinion.
There is a significant difference between doing a target/threat analysis for the area your at and racial profiling.
Mexican border... hmm racial profiling or common sense? to check a group of hispanics with back packs and a water bottle.
Downtown Rochester Ny, racial profiling or common damn sense to be wary of guy sporting gang tats, following a lone individual walking down the street.
That is not racial profiling it is simply reality and having situation awareness.
You made my point. The back-packs and water bottles add reasonable suspicion. Following a lone individual adds reasonable suspicion.
Good profiling is based on specific and articulable facts that allow you make rational inferences, not on " oh shit he is black or hispanic"
This is a cool site.
http://spotcrime.com/nc/fayetteville
You can walk it in and move it about. If you know the area you can make an assumption or three.
http://spotcrime.com/pa/philadelphia I believe the homicides are excluded.
We do not know for certain if GZ was following or profiling TM based on TMs race / ethnicity. That technically did not enter the series of events until the dispatcher asked if he was white, black, or hispanic.
Rev Al has been perform this song & dance for a long time....interesting video with commentary.
http://content.bitsontherun.com/previews/FmOqiyw8-svqBtzyp
Yet again the wheels of our lumbering social experiment of a bus are stuck - spinning in a puddle of emotionally muddied conjecturing at the base of our nationally constructed dam, signs of a conveniently ignored flaw in its design, construction, and maintenance - and causes us to lose sight of the enormity of our cultural reservoir, the complexity of the real and perceived historical and social forces it exerts upon that dam, and the reality that it is truly amazing that the damn thing ever existed at all...let alone retains the wherewithal to continue the experiment.
Astounding.
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
Yet again the wheels of our lumbering social experiment of a bus are stuck - spinning in a puddle of emotionally muddied conjecturing at the base of our nationally constructed dam, signs of a conveniently ignored flaw in its design, construction, and maintenance - and causes us to lose sight of the enormity of our cultural reservoir, the complexity of the real and perceived historical and social forces it exerts upon that dam, and the reality that it is truly amazing that the damn thing ever existed at all...let alone retains the wherewithal to continue the experiment.
Richard :munchin
OhmiGod! Another non-English-speaking person. :)
The black American community does far more to hinder their own progress by promoting behaviors that are counter to success; whether the supporting the gang, thug, pimp, womanizing, multiple children out of wedlock and unprovided for, etc.
The Man is not making them do this. It is an internal culture problem. When you have even the successful black Americans (I use this term because I have known many Africans and none wanted anything to do with 'African' Americans) in the Congressional Black Caucus calling any black person not supporting their entitlement programs an "Oreo: Black on the outside, white on the inside." the non black people are not the problem.I think the basic disagreement between your POV and mine is that we have different understandings of the "here and now."
You are more comfortable with a top-down perspective that allows the few to speak for the many. I am more comfortable with a bottom-up perspective that empowers the many to speak for themselves.
A chief advantage of your position is that it allows for the thumbnails that drives contemporary political discourse. That is, your approach lends itself to the identification of a "problem" and a "solution." The chief advantage of my position is that it is historiographically sustainable. That is, my approach lends itself to a dynamic in which the answers to a question prompt additional questions.
I understand that there is in America a broad, deep division between the two approaches. This gap generates a controversy all its own. In communities such as this one, many hold the latter approach--and its practitioners--in contempt. In other arenas, the contempt flows in the opposite direction. Ironically, a common feature of both discussions is an overall tone: "That's the other guys' problem; they're idiots." How about that.
My objective is to support efforts to bridge the gap, to fill in the divide, and to seek reconciliation based upon empathy and respect. A very wise historian of the American south has told me that my efforts in both arenas are wasted and pointless.
He might be right.
Streck-Fu
03-31-2012, 14:23
and to seek reconciliation based upon empathy and respect. .....
That has to be a two way street.....and, as evidenced by current events, it is not.
The difference between our perspectives is that yours seems to be a product of what you have read to be an ideal while I try to base mine on the reality of observation and experience.
Destrier
03-31-2012, 15:34
You made my point. The back-packs and water bottles add reasonable suspicion. Following a lone individual adds reasonable suspicion.
Good profiling is based on specific and articulable facts that allow you make rational inferences, not on " oh shit he is black or hispanic"
Much like a hooded, stranger in a gated community meandering around at night.
A reasonable person might think that with a half dozen minor burglaries in the area in recent months, it might warrant a closer look or better yet a call to 911 to let them come take a gander.
Not saying he did or did not racially profile. Just saying with the background of the area that we have heard of, it does not seem unreasonable at all to call 911.
Most white people are afraid of blacks, and it taints their reasoning. They don't face the fact that black people are no different from those of any other race, and thereby deserve the same scrutiny.
The true racist is the white guy who feels guilty somehow about what some assholes did in the '60's, slavery, etc.
I don't give a f.ck what color you are; if I think you're f.cking up, I'm gonna tell you.
Crickets...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigaba
"In my neighborhood, the deadbeats, thieves, and lowlifes are white."
How about posting stats on the crime in your neighborhood? You're not averse to backing up your posts, usually.
Crickets...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigaba
"In my neighborhood, the deadbeats, thieves, and lowlifes are white."
The funny thing about that quote is... If you replace "are white" with "are black" ....that would be racist vitriol in most circles. Since it is "are white", all anyone is asking for are stats to prove the statement.
ETA: Sig... This was not a knock on you. I think you are a very profound thinker. This just popped up as something that might show a contrast in viewpoints.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-30/news/os-george-zimmerman-lawyers-offer-10000-20120330_1_shooting-death-legal-expenses-legal-defense
The National Association for Legal Gun Defense wants to contribute $10,000 toward George Zimmerman's legal expenses, a member said today.
The group represents gun owners involved in self-defense shooting cases, said attorney Blue Rannefeld of Fort Worth, Texas.
Rannefeld said he has not been able to contact Zimmerman, 28, and is trying to reach Zimmerman's attorney, Craig Sonner of Altamonte Springs to make the group's offer of assistance.
The funny thing about that quote is... If you replace "are white" with "are black" ....that would be racist vitriol in most circles. Since it is "are white", all anyone is asking for are stats to prove the statement.
That sure seems reasonable.
That sure seems reasonable.
Good...at least it wasn't in pink with a popcorn smilie.
Good...at least it wasn't in pink with a popcorn smilie.
Nope - best behavior. The stats might or might not drive additional discussion - one can never be sure.
h0m3b0dy
03-31-2012, 19:21
The point of this thread seemed to be about "the kid" and "the grown man".
Hell I'm not the most PC guy on the planet, I actually hate how people are so sensitive. But I have to agree with an earlier comment, that we are no better than the dumb asses that continue to bring up old shit, white or black, if that is the basis of this forum.
Rant over....DB
I've spent a little more time soul searching myself over this incident regarding race. I've come to a conclusion that regardless of race I would be upset at what has happened and how it was handled by our fair and unbiased media, and the public in general. As I see more people polarize racially over this I find myself frightened as to the direction this whole thing is headed. No matter the outcome of legal proceedings I fear more harm than good shall come from this whole thing. Not to mention TPTB are sure to demonize the 2nd amendment.
I've spent a little more time soul searching myself over this incident regarding race. I've come to a conclusion that regardless of race I would be upset at what has happened and how it was handled by our fair and unbiased media, and the public in general. As I see more people polarize racially over this I find myself frightened as to the direction this whole thing is headed. No matter the outcome of legal proceedings I fear more harm than good shall come from this whole thing. Not to mention TPTB are sure to demonize the 2nd amendment.
Our MSM - our president and our AG have been an absolute fail on this matter - no doubt - I share some of your observations.
Wrong is wrong and the race baiters should be ashamed - and IMO should have been cooled down by the administration.
TPTB will use anything - anything - to control our 2A rights. Roll on November.
The funny thing about that quote is... If you replace "are white" with "are black" ....that would be racist vitriol in most circles. Since it is "are white", all anyone is asking for are stats to prove the statement.
ETA: Sig... This was not a knock on you. I think you are a very profound thinker. This just popped up as something that might show a contrast in viewpoints.QP Don--
Thank you for the compliment.
No offense taken. The intent behind the comment was merely to point out the perils of going from the specific to the general, that statistics don't necessarily tell the tale, and that correlation is often not causation.
IRT QP Dusty's request for statistics, I have found none on line for my neighborhood. My comment was based upon my everyday observations of my neighborhood, the types of petty crimes I witness, and the chemically dependent citizens looking to get private contributions for their lifestyle choices. I hop on a bus going east (towards Pasadena) the demographics and mechanics of douche baggery change. I go west, the mix changes again. The two constants seem to be (a) douchebags and (b) ass hats wearing skinny jeans around their thighs.
As I see more people polarize racially over this I find myself frightened as to the direction this whole thing is headed.
In your case, then Sharpton, Spike Lee and the NBPP have accomplished their mission.
http://www.katu.com/news/national/7-California-boys-arrested-in-attack-on-teen-145286335.html
Seven black teens have been arrested on suspicion that they committed a hate crime when they attacked a 15-year-old Hispanic boy while he was walking home from school in Southern California, according to the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Office.
The March 14 beating in Palmdale was captured on video and posted on YouTube, but has since been removed from the site. The seven boys, ages 13 to 16, were arrested Wednesday for investigation of assault and committing a hate crime, Lt. Don Ford said.
The attack happened near Cactus Middle School, but Ford didn't know if any of the teens involved were students there.
The video shows as many as 10 boys surrounding the victim and challenging him to a fight. The suspects then began hitting the teen while others watched.
During the beating, the teens made racially derogatory statements that were captured on the video, Ford said.
After the victim fell to the ground, the assailants kicked him multiple times in the head, knocked out several teeth and left shoe impressions on his skin, Ford said.
The victim was able to get to his feet and escape the onslaught, and will need to undergo dental surgery.
The teens who were arrested were identified from the video, which was discovered by a Palmdale sheriff's deputy and has been retained for evidence. Authorities are not releasing the video.
Police are seeking three more suspects.
In your case, then Sharpton, Spike Lee and the NBPP have accomplished their mission.
Speaking of individuals like those listed above. THIS pretty much sums up what is happening in the black community and these guys are doing nothing but capitalizing on it. Without all the drama they become irrelevant/pretty much broke.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b12_1333052826
PS it's not just the black community either. The same thing is happening in the white communities also. Hell we have more white people on welfare than blacks (not proportionally but still more whites than blacks).
It strikes me as being a bit odd that even members of PS.com can be distracted by such a simple diversion. We're being fluked, again. What are we not seeing that we should?
Pat
Oh you're right about the diversion. Even our officials will use any opportunity they can for their personal agenda/gain.
h0m3b0dy
03-31-2012, 22:31
In your case, then Sharpton, Spike Lee and the NBPP have accomplished their mission.
That's something else that upsets me over this; using Z's and TM's lives as an ends to a mean for personal power or divisive propaganda campaigning. I shouldn't be shocked b/c I am fairly awake to how politics and such work in our society but something about this seems colder than normal. I can't quite put a finger on it but I know its there.
I just see race relations being setback to the point of being on peoples minds more. I guess its not that I worry for my own sake or even that of our nation; it's more for my mixed son and daughter being exposed to this when I try to show them regardless of, race right is right and up is up. At this stage in history for humanity we should be accepting that people are what color they are. Thats what has made this the greatest nation in the world, not to sound naive.
h0m3b0dy
03-31-2012, 22:43
It strikes me as being a bit odd that even members of PS.com can be distracted by such a simple diversion. We're being fluked, again. What are we not seeing that we should?
Pat
That's something else I just got done saying to my boss at work today. There is something going on for the sleight of hand tricks to feel so obvious. He suggested the Aghanistan killings (that sgt was raised in a neighborhood not far from me, and a good place to find white thugs and addicts, just a side note) or maybe the new EO obama signed over St Patty's day weekend. I say its probably a little bigger but he's on the right page. Reminds of the Simpson trial in that way. Don't get fooled again, as the song goes...
The true racist is the white guy who feels guilty somehow about what some assholes did in the '60's, slavery, etc.
Adherence to PC is reminiscent of the Jr H.S. conversations just before the beginning of the school year, to find out what the "right" shoes are and "what bands do we like?" because it may be different from last year.
In the words of Dr. Manning....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_aIvfFq3BA
Mr Furious
04-01-2012, 06:26
MSM feeding the sheeple. I want to see the spin they try to put on their excuse for this one….busted.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/nbc-to-do-internal-investigation-on-zimmerman-segment/2012/03/31/gIQAc4HhnS_blog.html
…the “Today” segment took this approach to a key part of the dispatcher call:
Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.
Here’s how the actual conversation went down:
Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.
Dispatcher: OK, and this guy — is he black, white or Hispanic?
Zimmerman: He looks black.
the piece starts around 2:30 in the video
It appears this story has more attraction in the MSM than it does in the country.
For all the flogging the MSM was doing the last two weeks it seems all they could drum up for the "giant" protest was about 1,000 folks - and that was the MSM estimate - and that included the bussed in Rent-a-Mob folks.
So I would think after the Grand Jury rules any problems with unrest in a city would be a few caring folks - and a number of "usual suspects" looking to cause unrest and use it for cover to loot the local shops.
It strikes me as being a bit odd that even members of PS.com can be distracted by such a simple diversion. We're being fluked, again. What are we not seeing that we should?
Pat
You think we aren't aware that the whole thing was fabricated by Sharpton to take the heat off his pal Rush?
I'm not rendering your point invalid, bro. The stringpullers are desperate at this juncture. If an election were held today, we'd have an ABO to inaugurate.
Streck-Fu
04-01-2012, 15:24
Most white people are afraid of blacks, and it taints their reasoning. They don't face the fact that black people are no different from those of any other race, and thereby deserve the same scrutiny.
The true racist is the white guy who feels guilty somehow about what some assholes did in the '60's, slavery, etc.
I don't give a f.ck what color you are; if I think you're f.cking up, I'm gonna tell you.
Truth. Absolute truth.
Dragbag036
04-01-2012, 17:50
Adherence to PC is reminiscent of the Jr H.S. conversations just before the beginning of the school year, to find out what the "right" shoes are and "what bands do we like?" because it may be different from last year.
In the words of Dr. Manning....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_aIvfFq3BA
What do you mean, the man is keeping me down because I can't swim. It's cause I'm black I can't be "Speshal Foeces":boohoo
Snaquebite
04-01-2012, 18:26
What do you mean, the man is keeping me down because I can't swim. It's cause I'm black I can't be "Speshal Foeces":boohoo
I've got too many black brothers that can prove that wrong. Some were on SCUBA teams.
I've got too many black brothers that can prove that wrong. Some were on SCUBA teams.
You got that right. And fly like a bird. Sometimes both at the same time.
Remember Alcee R.? :cool:
Dragbag036
04-01-2012, 19:29
I know, I know. I'm not SCUBA, but I am DMT. One of my favorite sayings was "it's gonna look real bad when you enter the water and I (the dark American), have to get you in the boat. You're never gonna live that down. :p
><((((*>
Enter the water Ranger!......DB
You got that right. And fly like a bird. Sometimes both at the same time.
Remember Alcee R.? :cool:
Yep, Great guy. Saw him at Kenny Mac's memorial at Ft. Bragg.
Iraqgunz
04-02-2012, 07:02
I grew up in that area and my father-in-law lives there now. It has totally gone down hill and I feel safer in Iraq and A'stan than I do walking the streets around there. I wonder if that kid had dies would the President have jumped on TV and offered excuses and condolences? Somehow I doubt it.
http://www.katu.com/news/national/7-California-boys-arrested-in-attack-on-teen-145286335.html
Seven black teens have been arrested on suspicion that they committed a hate crime when they attacked a 15-year-old Hispanic boy while he was walking home from school in Southern California, according to the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Office.
The March 14 beating in Palmdale was captured on video and posted on YouTube, but has since been removed from the site. The seven boys, ages 13 to 16, were arrested Wednesday for investigation of assault and committing a hate crime, Lt. Don Ford said.
The attack happened near Cactus Middle School, but Ford didn't know if any of the teens involved were students there.
The video shows as many as 10 boys surrounding the victim and challenging him to a fight. The suspects then began hitting the teen while others watched.
During the beating, the teens made racially derogatory statements that were captured on the video, Ford said.
After the victim fell to the ground, the assailants kicked him multiple times in the head, knocked out several teeth and left shoe impressions on his skin, Ford said.
The victim was able to get to his feet and escape the onslaught, and will need to undergo dental surgery.
The teens who were arrested were identified from the video, which was discovered by a Palmdale sheriff's deputy and has been retained for evidence. Authorities are not releasing the video.
Police are seeking three more suspects.
BigJimCalhoun
04-02-2012, 21:28
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/trayvon-martin-case-exposes-worst-media-210020839.html
:rolleyes:
24,041 comments so far on this one article. I have never seen that many for a news article.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/trayvon-martin-case-exposes-worst-media-210020839.html
:rolleyes:
The comment section is telling, no wonder CNN lost 50% of its viewers. Heck, Thomas Jefferson was against new papers in his time, just image if he saw this horror show now... What's nice is the internet, much more informative, but a lot of BS too.
The comment section is telling, no wonder CNN lost 50% of its viewers. Heck, Thomas Jefferson was against new papers in his time, just image if he saw this horror show now... What's nice is the internet, much more informative, but a lot of BS too.Irony. Union fought against self-determination; Confederates fought for the right to govern themselves- H.L. Mencken
Streck-Fu
04-03-2012, 06:41
A newspaper is a device for making the ignorant more ignorant and the crazy crazier.---Mencken
Stargazer
04-03-2012, 08:14
Irony. "Union fought against self-determination; Confederates fought for the right to govern themselves- H.L. Mencken"
How does the H.L. Mencken quote apply to the current conversation? Seems out of context to me.
How does the H.L. Mencken quote apply to the current conversation? Seems out of context to me.
It's abstract and obscure enough to ostensibly impress weak-minded, easily-impressed pseudo-eggheads, rendering relevance immaterial.
It's abstract and obscure enough to ostensibly impress weak-minded, easily-impressed pseudo-eggheads.
Dusty you nailed this one - as usual - although a narrative will be advanced that fools some of the people some of the time.
Keep fighting the good fight.
Mencken - when you open that book you can never be sure which rabbit hole you wander in.
No matter what - Nietzche will be somewhere close.
Mencken? Mencken? Oh, yea, the Monkey Trail.
Mencken - when you open that book you can never be sure which rabbit hole you wander in.
No matter what - Nietzche will be somewhere close.
Mencken? Mencken? Oh, yea, the Monkey Trail.
Reading Neitzche and Mencken, if it doesn't kill you with boredom, will only make you stronger in your conviction that both are full of shit. :D
LMAO the Dustmiester is on a roll. :D
Reading Neitzche and Mencken, if it doesn't kill you with boredom, will only make you stronger in your conviction that both are full of shit. :D
When reading Mencken it pays to know which hat he was wearing at the time he was doing that particular piece.
He was a man of many hats.
Stargazer
04-03-2012, 09:26
When reading Mencken it pays to know which hat he was wearing at the time he was doing that particular piece.
He was a man of many hats.
Not to mention an elitist... which is I find it ironic from someone who earlier stated he believes in a bottom-up perspective v. top-down where the few speak for the many...
What Richard says.......... :munchin
Streck-Fu
04-03-2012, 10:36
It's abstract and obscure enough to ostensibly impress weak-minded, easily-impressed pseudo-eggheads, rendering relevance immaterial.
Historian: an unsuccessful novelist.
---Mencken
;)
How does the H.L. Mencken quote apply to the current conversation? Seems out of context to me.
Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood. --H.L. Mencken
OK, let's just cut to the chase
http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/H._L._Mencken
There is a lot of them.
OK, let's just cut to the chase
http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/H._L._Mencken
There is a lot of them.
Buzzkill... :D
How does the H.L. Mencken quote apply to the current conversation? Seems out of context to me.
Not to mention an elitist... which is I find it ironic from someone who earlier stated he believes in a bottom-up perspective v. top-down where the few speak for the many...
What Richard says.......... :munchin
@Stargazer.
In his post, steel71 offers a skeptical take on contemporary journalism and the "BS" their writings inspire. Concurrently, steel71 offers an historical observation about the motivation of the CSA by a journalist in his signature line.
However, if one does a little digging, it becomes clear that Mencken's observation is not sustainable. According to data in the 1860 census, tabulated here (http://www.sewanee.edu/faculty/Willis/Civil_War/tables/ConfedPop1860.html), the eleven states that would comprise the confederacy had a population of 9.1 million. Of that number, roughly 5.4 million were white. If one were to project that 51% of the 5.4 million were men, that would give you 2.8 million or about 31% of the total population.*
If one assumes that every white male in the confederate states supported the cause wholeheartedly and without reservation, the fact that the CSA's constitution made no provision for white women to vote, made more explicit the 3/5ths clause of the U.S. constitution, and established slavery as a permanent feature of everyday life, how can one reasonably make the argument that the CSA fought for self determination?**
So the irony is that while a member of this BB is criticizing the uncritical acceptance of journalistic accounts, he is accepting uncritically a journalistic account of American history.
Historian: an unsuccessful novelist.
---Mencken
;)]f you share Mencken's view of historians, then why are you reading Foote and why did you read McPherson <<LINK (http://professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=434145&postcount=921)>>?
Or are you making an attempt to be funny? In which case, my reply is:
What I really want to do is direct.
______________________________________
* The 51% comes from the overall percentage of men in the 1860 census. See U.S. Census Bureau's Historical Statistics of the United States, 1789-1945 (1949), p. 25. This publication is available here (http://www.census.gov/prod/www/abs/statab.html).
** The CSA constitution is available here (http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_csa.asp).
Stargazer
04-03-2012, 13:39
@Stargazer.
In his post, steel71 offers a skeptical take on contemporary journalism and the "BS" their writings inspire. Concurrently, steel71 offers an historical observation about the motivation of the CSA by a journalist in his signature line.
However, if one does a little digging, it becomes clear that Mencken's observation is not sustainable. According to data in the 1860 census, tabulated here (http://www.sewanee.edu/faculty/Willis/Civil_War/tables/ConfedPop1860.html), the eleven states that would comprise the confederacy had a population of 9.1 million. Of that number, roughly 5.4 million were white. If one were to project that 51% of the 5.4 million were men, that would give you 2.8 million or about 31% of the total population.*
If one assumes that every white male in the confederate states supported the cause wholeheartedly and without reservation, the fact that the CSA's constitution made no provision for white women to vote, made more explicit the 3/5ths clause of the U.S. constitution, and established slavery as a permanent feature of everyday life, how can one reasonably make the argument that the CSA fought for self determination?**
So the irony is that while a member of this BB is criticizing the uncritical acceptance of journalistic accounts, he is accepting uncritically a journalistic account of American history.
Ok Sigiba -- I missed that the 'quote' was from his signature line and not one that you were inserting.
lol There's a photo of something in this link....
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/04/Congressional-Black-Caucus-Trayvon-Resolution
lol There's a photo of something in this link....
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/04/Congressional-Black-Caucus-Trayvon-Resolution
Perfect:
In 2010 race-related beating case, George Zimmerman pushed to discipline same officers who investigated Trayvon Martin shooting
Published: 1:06 AM 04/04/2012
By Matthew Boyle - The Daily Caller
In late 2010 and early 2011 George Zimmerman, the Hispanic Sanford, Fla., man who shot and killed 17-year-old black teen Trayvon Martin, publicly demanded discipline in a race-related beating case for at least two of the police officers who cleared him after the Feb. 26 altercation, according to records obtained by The Daily Caller.
In a letter to Seminole County NAACP president Turner Clayton, a member of the Zimmerman family wrote that George was one of “very few” in Sanford who publicly condemned the “beating of the black homeless man Sherman Ware on Dec. 4, 2010, by the son of a Sanford police officer,” who is white.
(snip)
On Dec. 4, 2010, Justin Collison, the son of Sanford Police Department Lt. Chris Collison, was involved in a bar fight at The Wet Spot bar in Sanford. During the fight, which moved from indoors to outdoors, the younger Collison struck Ware.
Ware suffered a concussion, and paramedics took him to the hospital shortly after police arrived on the scene. Collison was not arrested or charged, even though an onlooker had video evidence of his actions.
No arrest was made and no action taken for weeks. Documents and emails now show police officers and officials from the office of the State Attorney operated with extreme caution because Collison’s father was a high-ranking law enforcement officer.
In the final days of 2010, an Orlando television station aired the video footage of Justin Collison beating Ware. Collison turned himself in six days later, on Jan. 3, 2011.
(snip)
After Justin Collison surrendered himself to authorities, the Sanford Police Department struggled to hold its officials accountable. A lengthy investigation conducted by the Seminole County Sheriff’s Office concluded that the police officials involved did not offer Justin Collison “preferential treatment.”
Still, according to members of the Zimmerman family, George printed and distributed copies of fliers on bright fluorescent-colored paper demanding that the community “hold accountable” officers responsible for any misconduct.
(snip)
Every Sunday, according to his family, Zimmerman would stroll through Sanford’s black neighborhoods handing out the fliers demanding justice for Sherman Ware, and calling for the police to hold their own officials accountable. Zimmerman would also place the fliers on people’s cars outside churches.
“I challenge you to stand together and to have our voices heard, and to hold accountable all of those officers, and officials whom let this atrocious attack pass unpunished until the media revealed it,” one of the fliers reads in part. “This animal could have attacked anyone of us, our children or loved ones in his alcohol fueled rage.”
The officers whom Zimmerman targeted for accountability in the Sherman Ware incident were all cleared by the Seminole County Sheriff’s investigation, despite Zimmerman’s repeated accusations that police gave kid-glove treatment to a white officer’s son who beat a defenseless, homeless black man.
But 14 months later, at least two of the same officers investigated the shooting death of Trayvon Martin — and cleared Zimmerman — even though his voice was the loudest calling for their punishment in the Ware case.
One of those officers was Timothy Smith. According to a police incident report from the scene of the Feb. 26 shooting, Officer Smith handcuffed Zimmerman and transported him to the police station. Another was Sergeant Anthony Raimondo, who was on scene with Smith and other local officers.
Full story: http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/04/zimmerman-demanded-discipline-in-2010-race-related-beating-for-officers-who-investigated-martin-shooting/
:munchin
Pat
ZonieDiver
04-05-2012, 06:14
lol There's a photo of something in this link....
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/04/Congressional-Black-Caucus-Trayvon-Resolution
Damn! How the hell did she get Huggy-Bear's hat? Someone call Starsky or Hutch!
QP Dusty, you guys were having so much fun I had to resist the tempation to "drink the Kool-aid" as so may of you did; it was quite an interesting experience, and potentially learned too.
Maybe next time. Zimmermans "tired cowardly" Azz is still free, and the FIRST SANFORD LEO to sit down and have Tea and crumpets wit the DOJ, gets immunity. Go figure - duh.. :munchin :munchin :munchin
AND,the beat goes on!!!!
One of these days, if I can figure out what the f.ck you're talking about, I'll reply to your point(s).
Not in the morning, though. Either you're on the other side of the world or work second shift, because from your posts, you always sound like you've got a half box of box wine in you.
I'll say it again.
THE NBPP is laughable.
The FBI,NSA, ATF, ICE, Various law divisions of the DOJ KNOW who theses clowns are and can neutralize them AT will. There seems to
be a lot of discussion around a group who for all intensive purposes thrives on "blowing" smoke: like so many today. Laughable......
Heres a little something by Creedance Clearwater Revival that might help shakeout the cobwebs for some and introduce a resounding theme for others.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYnySGM9dQA
:boohoo :boohoo :munchin
The problem I have with that comment is that the DOJ has in the past 3 plus years used it resources, has spent countless hours and tax dollars neutralizing idiots for far less smoke blowing than the NBPP.
Secondly, the laughable antics of the NBPP will not be so laughable if a person or persons takes them up on the offer and makes good on it.....and that is a threat the DOJ cannot control or neutralize at will.
You won't see this blasted all over the mainstream news media.
CLICK ME (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=606_1333570998)
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/04/05/Jesse-Jackson-Calls-On-Blacks-To-Wear-Hoddie-To-Polling-Places
:D What a maroon.
Speaking to The Tom Joyner Morning Show on Wednesday, Jesse Jackson said:
"If a white kills a black we revolt, if a black kills a white it's jail time, we kill each other it's Miller time. It's as if somebody has the right to kill us."
Jackson then added "This right wing, we got to win the election, so wear your hoodie, put a voter registration card under your hoodie if you have a hoodie without a voter card you've been Hoodiewinked."
Click link forvid.
I can see it now. A new motion picture by Michael More:
HOODIEWINKED
Jackson then added "This right wing, we got to win the election, so wear your hoodie, put a voter registration card under your hoodie if you have a hoodie without a voter card you've been Hoodiewinked."
Hoodies?! Hoodies...hmmm, that rings a bell: Hoodies! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpeiiuiPBd8&feature=related)
:D
Pat
http://washingtonexaminer.com/local/dc/2012/04/barry-we%E2%80%99ve-got-do-something-about-these-asians-coming/448886
Ward 8 D.C. Councilman Marion Barry said Thursday that he was not trying to insult the city's Asian community during remarks at a campaign event this week.
Clink link for vid of Barry.
“We got to do something about these Asians coming in and opening up businesses and dirty shops,” Barry said in remarks on Tuesday night first reported by WRC-TV. “They ought to go. I’m going to say that right now. But we need African-American businesspeople to be able to take their places, too.” lol And do what, open up businesses and dirty shops? :D
"I'm not ever going to condemn a group of people," Barry told reporters gathered in his Wilson Building office Thursday. "My history is complete. It's an excellent history with the Asian community."
Barry said his criticisms of Asian businesses in his Southeast Washington ward were rooted in what he perceives as disengagement in the community by those companies.
"I'm not going to allow a group of people to exploit people in Ward 8," Barry said.
He said he wants Asian businesses to operate in the area but he wants them to "come right."
Susan Au Allen, the president of the U.S. Pan Asian American Chamber of Commerce, said Barry’s comments concerned her.
“It’s regrettably inappropriate. I’m hoping he misspoke,” Allen said in an interview with The Washington Examiner. “We should be keeping our focus on how to make life better for everybody.”
Allen, who was a member of the city’s Minority Business Opportunity Commission while Barry was mayor, said Asians had sensed opportunity in Ward 8 when they chose to open their businesses.
“The Asian businesses are there because they see a place where there’s a need. They went in there to meet the demand,” Allen said. “They’re there to serve the needs of the residents.”
Roger Campos, the president and CEO of the Washington-based Minority Business Roundtable, said Barry’s comments were disrespectful to minorities beyond the city’s Asian-American community.
“That is totally insensitive. It’s kind of interesting because Asians and Hispanics are fueling the economy in business growth, and we ought to be inclusive of all minority groups, not just one,” Campos said. “He’s got one insensitive focus, and that’s on African-Americans solely and no other groups.”
Barry didn’t exactly have his fellow D.C. Council members lining up to support him.
“I strongly disagree with the recent remarks made about Asian American business owners in the District,” council Chairman Kwame Brown said in news release. “Statements like that are divisive, destructive, and have absolutely no place in our city.”
Ward 6 Councilman Tommy Wells took to Twitter to react.
“My colleague’s remarks about Asian businesses last night were deplorable,” Wells posted. “We are a great city, and we are a diverse city.”
Barry, meanwhile, blamed journalists for taking his remarks out of context.
"The media ought to apologize," Barry said. "I want an apology from you."
...we got to win the election, so wear your hoodie, put a voter registration card under your hoodie if you have a hoodie without a voter card you've been Hoodiewinked."
The Rev. Jackson may need a new theme song.
I give you...The Hoodie-Footie song...:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3Fggah53RY&feature=youtube_gdata_player
http://washingtonexaminer.com/local/dc/2012/04/barry-we%E2%80%99ve-got-do-something-about-these-asians-coming/448886
"I'm not going to allow a group of people to exploit people in Ward 8," Barry said.
He said he wants Asian businesses to operate in the area but he wants them to "come right."
Following his tweets after the remark, what he meant was "Take down the plexiglass between my people and the cash register". Nope, that's not in pink.
As High Commissioner......sounds like he thinks he is some sort royalty or something.
UN rights chief calls for Trayvon Martin probe
UN rights chief Navi Pillay on Thursday called for an "immediate investigation" into the circumstances surrounding the February death of an unarmed black US teen, shot by a neighborhood watchman.
Pillay made the comments about the controversial Trayvon Martin case at a press conference in Barbados, as she wrapped up a three-day visit to the Caribbean island nation.
"As High Commissioner for Human Rights, I call for an immediate investigation," Pillay told reporters.
"Justice must be done for the victim. It's not just this individual case. It calls into question the delivery of justice in all situations like this."
Neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman, a white Hispanic, fatally shot 17-year-old Martin inside a gated community in the Florida town of Sanford on February 26.
Zimmerman has said he acted in self-defense after Martin punched him in the nose, knocked him down and slammed his head into the ground.
The case has unleashed a national uproar over race relations and the right to self-defense in the United States.
Pillay expressed shock that Zimmerman was not arrested right away, and expressed concern about Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law, which allows the use of deadly force in situations where there is a belief of a threat.
"The law should operate equally in respect of all violations. I will be awaiting an investigation and prosecution and trial and of course reparations for the victims concerned," Pillay said.
Sanford police applied for a warrant to arrest Zimmerman in the early stages of the investigation, local media including The Miami Herald reported. Prosecutors however held off approving the warrant, pending further review.
Since Martin's death, there have been numerous large public protests calling for Zimmerman's arrest, but there have been no detention orders and the 28-year-old has gone into hiding, fearing for his life.
http://news.yahoo.com/un-rights-chief-calls-trayvon-martin-probe-225324858.html
It's comforting to know that the U.N has now weighed in on this situation. They have such a great track record when it comes to dealing with all the daily human suffering and injustice out there in the rest of the world.
The Dem media loves racial strife. Gender strife, too. Polarization helps their cause.
It's gonna get worse before it gets better.
http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2012/04/heavily_armed_neo-nazis_patrol.php
Neo-Nazis are currently conducting heavily armed patrols in and around Sanford, Florida and are "prepared" for violence in the case of a race riot. The patrols are to protect "white citizens in the area who are concerned for their safety" in the wake of the Trayvon Martin shooting last month, says Commander Jeff Schoep of the National Socialist Movement. "We are not advocating any type of violence or attacks on anybody, but we are prepared for it," he says. "We are not the type of white people who are going to be walked all over."
Because nothing diffuses racial tension like gun-toting racial separatists patrolling an already on-edge community.
Schoep, whose neo-Nazi group is based in Detroit, tells Riptide the patrols are a response to white residents' fears of a race riot.
A group called the New Black Panther Party recently offered $10,000 for a citizens' arrest of George Zimmerman, Martin's shooter. Schoep said the bounty is a sign that "the possibility of further racial violence... is brimming over like a powder keg ready to explode into the streets."
The patrols are comprised of between 10 and 20 locals and "volunteers" from across the state, including some from Miami, he added. He couldn't go into specifics on what kind of firepower, exactly, the patrols had with them.
"In Arizona the guys can walk around with assault weapons and that's totally legal," Schoep said, referring to the group's patrols of the US-Mexico border. "What I can tell you is that any patrols that we are doing now in Florida are totally within the law."
Asked if the patrols wouldn't just make things worse -- spark a race riot, for instance -- Schoep insisted they were simply a "show of solidarity with the white community down there" and "wouldn't intimidate anybody."
"Whenever there is one of these racially charged events, Al Sharpton goes wherever blacks need him," Schoep said. "We do similar things. We are a white civil rights organization."
He went to great lengths to contrast his organization with the New Black Panther Party, who he blamed for scaring local whites and spurring the need for NSM patrols. Schoep admits that the NSM and the Black Panthers are actually alike in that they are both racial separatists. But he sees a double-standard in the government's treatment of the two groups.
"The Black Panthers have been offering bounties and all that," he says. "But if we called for a bounty on someone's head, I guarantee we'd be locked up as quick as I could walk out of my house."
Schoep was also quick to clarify that he isn't taking sides in Trayvon Martin's controversial shooting. "That's for the courts to decide," he says. Besides, Schoep says, Zimmerman's not even white.
"I think there is some confusion going on," Schoep says. "A lot of people think that this guy who shot Trayvon was white... but he's half Hispanic or Cuban or something. He certainly doesn't look white to me."
To some, sending in the storm troops seems like a sure way to incite -- not prevent -- a race riot. But Schoep says that's way off base.
"We don't wish for things like that," he says. "But there have been race riots in Detroit and L.A... So we know those types of things happen."
"You can either be prepared or you can be blindsided," he adds. "This way, if something were to touch off a race riot, we'd already be in the area."
How reassuring.
And...
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-tulsa-shooting-20120407,0,2643426.story
Well here goes another casuality....... Could not have happened to a better channel. If there is not a story edit the material and make a story....
A producer for NBC News has been fired for editing a recording of George Zimmerman's call to police the night he fatally shot Trayvon Martin.
The New York Times is reporting that "the person was fired on Thursday, according to two people with direct knowledge of the disciplinary action who declined to be identified discussing internal company matters."
The dismissal of the Miami-based producer, whose name has not been publicized, followed an internal investigation by NBC, which led to the network apologizing earlier this week for having aired the deceptive audio.
The recording aired on NBC's "Today" show on March 27, when the audio viewers heard suggested that Zimmerman volunteered to police, without provocation, that Martin was black: "This guy looks like he's up to no good. He looks black."
But the tape had been edited, and the portion where the 911 dispatcher specifically asks Zimmerman if the person in question was "black, white or Hispanic," was deleted.
The conversation that actually occurred between the dispatcher and Zimmerman is as follows:
"This guy looks like he's up to no good. Or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about." Then the dispatcher asked, "O.K., and this guy — is he white, black or Hispanic?" To which Zimmerman replied, "He looks black."
After that phone call on the night of Feb. 26, Zimmerman fatally shot Martin. The 17-year-old Martin was unarmed, and Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer in Sanford, Fla., told police he fired in self-defense after Martin attacked him.
Since then, it has been debated if Zimmerman was racially profiling the teenager, a notion the edited version of the tape reinforces.
The Times reports that NewsBusters, a conservative media monitoring group, first reported NBC's discrepancy on March 30. The following day, NBC told The Washington Post that it would investigate. On Tuesday, NBC said in a statement that its investigation turned up "an error made in the production process that we deeply regret." The network promised that "necessary steps" would be taken "to prevent this from happening in the future" and NBC apologized to viewers.
No steps were specified, but the New York Times reports that the next day "a Miami-based producer who had worked at NBC for several years" was fired, and "people with direct knowledge of the firing characterized the misleading edit as a mistake, not a purposeful act."
On Thursday, Reuters cited an unnamed NBC executive saying "The "Today" show's editorial control policies -- which include a script editor, senior producer oversight, and in most cases legal and standards department reviews of material to be broadcast -- missed the selective editing of the call."
Staff members at NBC News, who had been working on the Trayvon Martin story for weeks in Florida, were initially "in shock" over the altered tape, and later furious, another source told Reuters.
Reuters also reports that "NBC News executives interviewed more than half a dozen employees during their investigation."
On Saturday, the "Today" portion of MSNBC's Web site posted a Reuter's story on the producer's firing.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/upshot/nbc-fires-producer-over-edited-zimmerman-911-call-201124740.html
Nothing to see here....move along
Two separate investigations into the New Black Panthers have been conducted this month, one in response to charges of homegrown terrorism and the other in response to the group's placing a bounty on the head of George Zimmerman, the alleged shooter of Florida teenager Trayvon Martin.
The results of the twofold probe, one of which was released yesterday, reveals New Black Panther ties to the Middle East terrorist group Hezbollah.
Congressman Peter King, R-NY, has been investigating Hezbollah's activities within the United States as part of a Congressional probe into homegrown terrorism. King is Chairman of the House Committee on Homeland Security. Part of the results of his investigation can be read here.
On the heels of King's report came another significant development yesterday as a researcher who works with retired General Paul Vallely, a former Fox News analyst, issued a separate report, published here, which exposes significant collaboration between Hezbollah and the New Black Panthers.
Continue reading on Examiner.com Probe reveals New Black Panther ties to Hezbollah - National Conservative | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-national/probe-reveals-new-black-panther-ties-to-hezbollah#ixzz1rUquk6Dy
Williams: I just want to say to all the listeners on this phone call, that if you are having any doubt about getting suited, booted, and armed up for this race war that we’re in that has never ended, let me tell you somethin…the thing that’s about to happen these honkies, these crackers, these pigs, these people, these motherf*er…it has been long overdue.”
Kweli: “Ya, what she said was right– we got to suit up and boot up…and get prepared for the war that we’re in…this stuff got to boil over, and all your great’s talked about that happened to be bloodshed involved with revolution- true revolution means some bloodshed, so there‘s blood being spilled because there’s a new life that is beyond this bloodshed. There is a new reality that is built upon your original African principles and spiritualities and values and norms that is beyond this bloodshed. But we gotta go do it.
“And as the Scripture said, you gotta to cross it. We gon’ have to cross the Red Sea….I know y’all thought it was talking about some sea in some Middle Eastern part of the world- hell no. We’re talking about some blood. You’re gonna have to cross some blood, and go through some blood and some battles.
“And there are those who wish they could stand in this hour, to see the destruction of the devil‘s world and the devil’s society- and I‘m ain’t talking about no dude underneath the ground with a pitchfork and pantyhose. I’m talking about that blonde haired, blue-eyed, sometimes brown-eyed, Caucasian walkin around with a mindset, a demonistic mindset, and a nature to do evil and brutality.”
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/04/08/New-Black-Panthers-Call-For-Race-War-Blood-Shed-Kill-Crackers-For-Trayvon-April-9th-Day-of-Action
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/04/08/New-Black-Panthers-Call-For-Race-War-Blood-Shed-Kill-Crackers-For-Trayvon-April-9th-Day-of-Action
lololol Frag order for idiots. :D
lololol Frag order for idiots. :D
LMAO!
Stingray
04-08-2012, 19:21
lololol Frag order for idiots. :D
Dusty, that is funny!
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/09/trayvon-martin-death-wont-go-to-florida-grand-jury/?test=latestnews
Special prosecutor Angela Corey said Monday she will not take the Trayvon Martin shooting death before a grand jury.
Corey said she continues to investigate the case and will not involve a grand jury that had been set to meet Tuesday in Sanford, Fla.
Corey said her decision to skip the grand jury shouldn't be considered a factor in determining whether charges will be filed against George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer who has admitted to fatally shooting the unarmed Martin.
The announcement means the decision on charges now rests solely with Corey, who had a reputation for not presenting cases before grand juries if it wasn't required. Under Florida law, only first-degree murder cases require the use of grand juries.
Corey took over the case last month after the prosecutor who normally handles cases out of Sanford recused himself. That prosecutor, Norm Wolfinger, had originally called for the case to be presented before a grand jury.
"From the moment she was assigned, Ms. Corey noted she may not need a grand jury," said a statement from Corey's office.
Martin was killed Feb. 26 during a confrontation with Zimmerman in a gated community in Sanford.
The case has led to protests across the nation and spurred a debate about race and the laws of self-defense. Martin was black; Zimmerman's father is white and his mother is Hispanic.
Zimmerman has claimed self-defense, and Florida's self-defense law gives wide leeway to use deadly force and eliminates a person's duty to retreat in the face of danger.
Snip
Streck-Fu
04-09-2012, 11:28
Does this means she is moving toward charging Zimmerman for a non-murder crime?
Does this means she is moving toward charging Zimmerman for a non-murder crime?
No it may mean one of many things:
She needs more info and will continue to investigate
She does not think it warrant's a charge
She needs more time to get a very touchy case ready and wrap up all the loose ends.
She is getting pressure from higher and needs to be ready or beg off the case.
Only she knows so why does everyone need to try to what if it............ This case has been played and manipulated by the press/special interest groups and every one else......
Just my 2 cents
No it may mean one of many things:
Only she knows so why does everyone need to try to what if it............ This case has been played and manipulated by the press/special interest groups and every one else......
Just my 2 cents
Speaking for myself, that's what makes it interesting.
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Trayvon-Martin-protest-closes-Sanford-Police-Department/-/1637132/10365926/-/nl3qdk/-/index.html
Hmmm,
I guess we know how to shut down a police department in Florida now. Just sit in front of the doors in protest.
Seems to me that they are interfering with police business and should be arrested. :munchin
Hmmm,
I guess we know how to shut down a police department in Florida now. Just sit in front of the doors in protest.
Seems to me that they are interfering with police business and should be arrested. :munchin
Oh, no! You might piss them off. :rolleyes::mad:
New Black Pussies Party (conference) call to arms: http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/04/08/New-Black-Panthers-Call-For-Race-War-Blood-Shed-Kill-Crackers-For-Trayvon-April-9th-Day-of-Action
:munchin
Pat
greenberetTFS
04-10-2012, 10:19
Article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/09/travon-martin-george-zimmerman_n_1412693.html
Big Teddy :munchin
I'm thinking about joining the NBPP myself - anybody who dislikes the current POTUS as much as these guys do can't be all bad! ;)
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
I'm thinking about joining the NBPP myself - anybody who dislikes the current POTUS as much as these guys do can't be all bad! ;)
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
Send pics.
http://video.foxnews.com/video-live-streaming.html?video_id=1155606219001
greenberetTFS
04-11-2012, 12:18
Trayvon Martin Case 'A Tragedy We Are All Struggling To Understand,' Says Eric Holder
www.huffingtonpost.com
Big Teddy :munchin
George Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin shooting, official says
".......according to a law enforcement official close to the investigation..........."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_print.html
Leaks, Leaks and more Leaks. Oh, well.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/assault/videotaped-baltimore-street-beating-879234
Animals....
Why didn't anyone tell me April 9th was national Shoot a Black Panther Day:(
greenberetTFS
04-11-2012, 15:14
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/assault/videotaped-baltimore-street-beating-879234
Animals....
Worst than that "Whale shit"........:mad::mad::mad:
Big Teddy :munchin
I just watched the special prosecutor’s press conference; her demeanor struck me as anything but professional. She came across as almost gleeful over all this and her presentation was more in keeping with someone accepting an award and giving kudos out to all involved. I thought that she was anything but unbiased. I guess she’s finally getting those 15 minutes of fame that she has always heard about. All she had to do was come out, introduce herself and tell us the charges. Regardless of how this finally plays out there will always be those who will never think that the punishment fits the crime and it will get ugly down there.
ddoering
04-12-2012, 03:50
I just watched the special prosecutor’s press conference; her demeanor struck me as anything but professional. She came across as almost gleeful over all this and her presentation was more in keeping with someone accepting an award and giving kudos out to all involved. I thought that she was anything but unbiased. I guess she’s finally getting those 15 minutes of fame that she has always heard about. All she had to do was come out, introduce herself and tell us the charges. Regardless of how this finally plays out there will always be those who will never think that the punishment fits the crime and it will get ugly down there.
Certainly there is no surprise here. Next will be the fair trial by a jury of Travon's peers followed by life in jail. And if by some chance he does get a fair trial and is found not guilty I'm sure Holder is standing by with Federal charges.
IMO she/they had to file charges. Sweeping this under the rug would have given us R. King x 100, and that "Red Sea" of blood shed. This is orchestrated damage control not only from the higher ups, but also based on the very events taking place outside in the streets. This will be an effort to appease the masses, and if GZ is acquitted, there will be some who still want his head on a stick.
"Ladies and gentlemen! Please direct your attention to he events in ring number three..." ;)
Why the case won't be as straightforward as you might expect.
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
Florida v. Zimmerman Needs The Bravest Judge Around
Atlantic, 11 Apr 2012
THE PROSECUTOR
Put yourself in special prosecutor Angela Corey's shoes for just a moment. On the one hand, she has an ethical obligation not to prosecute a case she doesn't believe she can win. On the other hand she has an obligation to zealously prosecute people whom she believes may have committed murder. The first obligation reins in the vast discretion prosecutors typically have to bring criminal charges. The second, conversely, prods prosecutors to indict even when they know they don't have a slam-dunk case. And whatever else the newly-minted People of the State of Florida v. Zimmerman is, it is not, from a legal standpoint anyway, a slam-dunk case.
Given the choice between the two options, to do something or to do nothing, it is perhaps inevitable that Corey would have exercised her discretion to charge George Zimmerman with the murder of Trayvon Martin. By doing so, Corey pushes into the court system, first to a judge and then perhaps to a jury, most of the legal questions so many of us have been asking about since Zimmerman shot the unarmed 17-year-old in in Sanford, Florida on February 26th. Corey isn't so much passing the buck to the courts as she is toting it, along with all of the racial baggage of the case, to the courthouse for trial. Prosecutors prosecute. Judges judge.
So long as Corey and her team present a professional case against Zimmerman, so long as they are aggressive but honest in handling the evidence and the witnesses against him, they are now in a no-lose situation. That's what Wednesday's charges mean. Sure, Corey and company will be second-guessed by every so-called "expert" within shouting distance of a camera or a microphone. But it will be the Florida courts which ultimately will determine the depth and breadth and applicability of the state's "Stand Your Ground" law-- the judges here, and the law itself, are on trial almost as much as Zimmerman himself.
Corey? If she loses because the language of the Florida statute is so broad, or because of shoddy police work, she will be able to say to the world: "Don't blame us if you don't like the result. Blame the legislators who enacted the statute. Blame the judges who enforce it the way they do. Blame the cops for treating Zimmerman the way they did that night." I'm not predicting that prosecutors will lose or that Corey would say something like that even if they do. But we all should acknowledge going into this new phase of the story that Zimmerman has a lot of things going for him under the law of this case.
THE DEFENDANT
A talk show host asked me, on the air, to put myself in Zimmerman's shoes today. I cannot. I am not a "neighborhood watch" captain and I did not shoot an unarmed teenager to death. I do not have tens of millions of Americans, maybe more, labeling me a racist. Zimmerman today indeed stands alone-- with his new attorney already on board. Last month, following the release of the 911 tapes, I wrote about how Zimmerman seemed to be looking for trouble on the night he killed Martin. Now that trouble is here, in the form of a second-degree murder charge that could put him in prison for decades, if not the rest of his natural life.
He is alone but he isn't the first despised criminal defendant and he surely won't be the last. While the public debate about him rolls on, Zimmerman now, finally, may rely upon the rights and protections afforded to all criminal defendants under federal and state law. Now that there is a pending case, the presumption of innocence formally attaches. So do disclosure rules designed to ensure that defendants get a fair trial. So does the prosecutor's burden of proving the case against Zimmerman beyond a reasonable doubt. He is alone. But, paradoxically, in some ways, he is more protected today as a defendant than he was yesterday as a subject.
Soon, Zimmerman and his lawyers will ask a Florida trial judge to dismiss the charges against him on the grounds that he has "immunity" from prosecution under the state's notoriously broad "justifiable homicide" law. At that time, we will essentially have a "mini-trial" in this case on the issue of whether Zimmerman's actions that night, and Martin's actions too, cause this tragedy to fall under the statute. A judge will make that determination, not a jury, and it is only if the judge decrees that the statute does not apply will Zimmerman have to proceed toward trial. Here again is the pertinent language from the statute:
A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
If Zimmerman wins this fight, and is granted immunity from prosecution for a "justifiable" homicide, prosecutors will have a hard time convincing Florida's appellate courts to reverse what the trial judge decides. Appellate judges traditionally afford trial court judges great deference on decisions that are based upon evidentiary hearings, which is what will happen here. On the other hand, if Zimmerman loses his immunity battle, he'll still be able to argue at trial before a jury that he had no evil intent at the time of the shooting. Prosecutors have to win every battle to get their conviction. Zimmerman only has to win one.
THE TRIAL JUDGE
There is an old saying in the law that the vast majority of criminal cases can be handled by the vast majority of trial judges. But every once in a while a case comes up which requires a special type of judge. This is one of those cases. It is imperative-- for Zimmerman, for prosecutors, for Martin's friends and family, for the hundreds of millions of people who care about this case, and for the perception of fair justice in America itself-- for this case to be assigned to a courageous, tough, fair trial judge who will be able both to control the courtroom and manage the media circus outside.
This case simply cannot be assigned to a judge like Lance Ito, who made a mess of the O.J. Simpson murder trial. It cannot be assigned to a media dandy or a fop. It must instead be assigned to a stern judge like Richard Matsch, the venerable federal judge who presided over the Oklahoma City bombing trials. There are many good trial judges in Florida. There are also many awful ones. The Seminole County judicial officials in charge of the process, whoever they are, have to ensure that this tinderbox case gets assigned to a judge who can protect it-- like a mother hen even-- from the passions and prejudices this story has evoked.
To ensure that Zimmerman gets a fair trial, to discourage some of the media silliness which has pervaded this story, to ensure that people all over the world who have nothing to do with the case can respect the result it generates, the trial judge here should immediately issue a media gag order on the lawyers involved in the case-- and then enforce it if the judge feels there is too much grandstanding on the steps of the courthouse. To her credit, prosecutor Corey did an excellent job Wednesday afternoon of refusing to spin the case in her direction. All she did was ask people to pray, which I guess is how they do it in Florida.
Travyon Martin's grieving mother expressed thanks Wednesday evening that the man who killed her son had finally, after 44 days, been arrested. But when Corey was asked about the "delay" in bringing Zimmerman in she seemed shocked at the perception that this homicide investigation had taken so long. We are so used to instant gratification today that we cannot even seem to wait a reasonable time for justice to run its course. You may think this story has been around forever but, really, it's still far closer to the beginning than it is to the end. It will be three to six months, at least, before Stand Your Ground faces its day in court here.
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/04/florida-v-zimmerman-needs-the-bravest-judge-around/255756/
Team Sergeant
04-12-2012, 10:23
Certainly there is no surprise here. Next will be the fair trial by a jury of Travon's peers followed by life in jail. And if by some chance he does get a fair trial and is found not guilty I'm sure Holder is standing by with Federal charges.
Could not agree more.
6 months, a year, maybe more, before anything new happens.
May be a leak here and there by either side - and a stern warning from a judge about them - but for the most part it will settle from the front page to maybe page two or three.
Come trial time it will be "Zimmerman & Martin? Who were they? Oh, yeah, them."
Not everyone is running out to get new rope..
Alan Dershowitz: Zimmerman Arrest Affidavit "Irresponsible And Unethical"
“Most affidavits of probable cause are very thin. This is so thin that it won’t make it past a judge on a second degree murder charge,” Dershowitz said. “There’s simply nothing in there that would justify second degree murder.” (via Mediaite)
http://realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/04/12/alan_dershowitz_zimmerman_arrest_affidavit_irrespo nsible_and_unethical.html
greenberetTFS
04-13-2012, 06:08
Not everyone is running out to get new rope..:eek:
Big Teddy :munchin
longrange1947
04-13-2012, 06:23
I just watched the special prosecutor’s press conference; her demeanor struck me as anything but professional. She came across as almost gleeful over all this and her presentation was more in keeping with someone accepting an award and giving kudos out to all involved. I thought that she was anything but unbiased. I guess she’s finally getting those 15 minutes of fame that she has always heard about. All she had to do was come out, introduce herself and tell us the charges. Regardless of how this finally plays out there will always be those who will never think that the punishment fits the crime and it will get ugly down there.
She gave herself away when she said "Justice for Trayvon Martin". I thought her job was justice for all. :munchin
Streck-Fu
04-13-2012, 06:52
Why didn't anyone tell me April 9th was national Shoot a Black Panther Day:(
If we could get the NBPP in the same location as the KKK, would they negate each other like matter and anti-matter?
May solve 2 problems at once.
If we could get the NBPP in the same location as the KKK, would they negate each other like matter and anti-matter?
May solve 2 problems at once.
Way to think outside the box.:D
Way to think outside the box.:D
Not a bad idea at all.
Idiots vs Idiots.
We could put it on Pay Per View and make a fortune.
:munchin
We could put it on Pay Per View and make a fortune. So how do we do that? :munchin
So how do we do that? :munchin
I bet Dana White from UFC could figure it out. :D
The Reaper
04-13-2012, 09:52
So how do we do that? :munchin
Happens in prison on a regular basis.
TR
Streck-Fu
04-17-2012, 05:57
Is the prosecutor pushing for a plea-bargain?
LINK (http://reason.com/blog/2012/04/16/how-can-overcharging-be-ethical)
How Can Overcharging Be Ethical?
In his latest Huffington Post column, former Reason writer Radley Balko notes the controversy over special prosecutor Angela Corey's decision to charge George Zimmerman with second-degree murder, as opposed to manslaughter, in Trayvon Martin's death. Given the circumstances in which Zimmerman shot Martin—during a violent struggle in which Zimmerman claims he feared for his life—it seems unlikely that he acted "from ill will, hatred, spite, or an evil intent," as Florida's standard jury instruction for second-degree murder requires. The affidavit supporting Zimmerman's arrest does not clarify that point, saying only that he "profiled" and "followed" Martin, after which "Zimmerman confronted Martin and a struggle ensued." But no matter how questionable a charging decision, Balko points out, it is completely a matter of prosecutorial discretion:
Once charged, a suspect often needs to hire expensive legal representation or, if he can't afford it (and there aren't many people who can pay for representation on a murder charge), request a public defender. It likely means at least temporary incarceration, the posting of bond, and a stigma more damaging than an arrest, but less so than a conviction.
A judge may occasionally dismiss charges due to lack of evidence, but generally speaking, the decision to charge is the prosecutor's. And while police officers can be sued for a wrongful arrest, prosecutors are protected by absolute immunity, meaning that as long as they're performing a prosecutor's duties, they can't be sued.
In a 1940 speech to a gathering of U.S. attorneys, then U.S. Attorney General and future Supreme Court Justice Robert H. Jackson called the power to charge "the most dangerous power of the prosecutor," warning that prosecutors have "more control over life, liberty and reputation than any other person in America." Charging power is an "immense power to strike at citizens, not with mere individual strength, but with all the force of government itself," he said.
Mandatory minimum sentences enhance this power, allowing prosecutors to determine a defendant's punishment by deciding how to charge him, which increases the pressure for a guilty plea in a justice system where cases are rarely resolved by trial. In her book The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness, Ohio State University law professor Michelle Alexander notes that prosecutors routinely encourage plea bargains by "overcharging" defendants, making allegations that probably could not be proven at trial (which seems to be what Corey is doing, raising Zimmerman's maximum possible prison term from 15 years to life by charging him with second-degree murder rather than manslaughter). Alexander also observes that a prosecutor "is free to dismiss a case for any reason or no reason at all." This wide discretion, she writes, makes the prosecutor "the most powerful law enforcement official in the criminal justice system."
Prosecutors are not supposed to use this power simply to rack up guilty pleas or convictions, because they are not merely advocates for one side in an adversarial process; they are public officials charged with pursuing justice. As Supreme Court Justice George Sutherland put it in a 1935 case that Balko quotes, a prosecutor is "representative not of an ordinary party to a controversy, but of a sovereignty whose obligation to govern impartially is as compelling as its obligation to govern at all; and whose interest, therefore, in a criminal prosecution is not that it shall win a case, but that justice shall be done." In this light, how can it be ethical for prosecutors to bring charges they do not sincerely believe are justified by the facts of the case?
An interesting discussion with a complete transcript and audio at link below. IMO the complete discussion is worth a read or listen.
Below is a snip to merely get an idea of content.
NPR
Legal Strategies And 'Stand Your Ground' Cases
April 12, 2012
http://www.npr.org/2012/04/12/150507016/challenges-for-attorneys-in-the-zimmerman-case
Guests
Abe Laser, former assistant state attorney, Florida
Richard Hornsby, criminal defense attorney
Geoffrey Corn, law professor, South Texas College of Law
Excerpts:
Prosecutors in the case against George Zimmerman must prove that he intentionally killed Trayvon Martin, that his actions are not protected under Florida's "stand your ground law," and convince a judge to proceed with the case. His defenders will need to show Zimmerman acted in self defense.
HORNSBY: "Well, first, I'd like to - here's the thing, the Stand Your Ground law actually modified three different statutes in Florida, and it did three different things. One, it did remove the duty to retreat whenever you're confronted with violence against you. That's the primary one that everybody talks about. The second thing it did is it implemented the pretrial hearing that we've been discussing for the last 15 minutes that allows a judge to dismiss it after hearing all the evidence.
The third thing it did, which is one thing I do think needs to be changed, is it stated that a law enforcement officer can't arrest a person unless they determine that the deadly force used was unlawful or the force used was unlawful. And that seemed to be the thing that created all the outrage in this case is that George Zimmerman was never arrested. The way it used to be is that if you killed somebody, you were arrested, period. And then you could go before the judge, you know, and assert your affirmative defense and, you know, establish why you were justified in killing somebody or committing any crime for that matter that involved violence against somebody.
But the legislator made it to where, no, if the law enforcement has a credible claim of self-defense, they have to actually consider that before determining whether or not they can make an arrest. So that portion of the law that was implemented under Florida Stand Your Ground Act, which, again, it's actually enacted and changed three different statutes, I think, should be removed.
But let's be clear here about a few little things that I think gets lost in the uproar about Stand Your Ground. One, even under the old law, you had no duty to retreat if someone attacked you with their fists, meaning if Trayvon Martin would have come up to George Zimmerman and punched him in the face, George Zimmerman would've had no duty to first retreat. He could have responded back with physical force if he wanted to, not deadly force, just physical force. However, even under the old law, if Trayvon Martin would have gotten George Zimmerman to the ground and to a position where he no longer could retreat because Trayvon Martin is - allegedly was on top of him, beating his head into the ground, even under the old law, that would have been considered retreating to the door, meaning you had no other routes of escape, and then you can resort to deadly force.
The only catch, though, is that that would've had to have been a determination by the jury about whether or not that was true or not, not a judge. And so, you know, all this stuff about Stand Your Ground, you know, the castle doctrine, even under the old law, everything would have been implied exactly the same, except for the part about a judge can consider the issue. And, you know, and this isn't about a dog pooping on a lawn. This is about a 17-year-old kid who essentially was - if George Zimmerman is true, I'm not saying he is - was banging George Zimmerman's head in the ground, I would think of circumstances any person will have the right to use deadly force if they thought that the other person was going to kill them."
...prosecutors routinely encourage plea bargains by "overcharging" defendants, making allegations that probably could not be proven at trial (which seems to be what Corey is doing, raising Zimmerman's maximum possible prison term from 15 years to life by charging him with second-degree murder rather than manslaughter). Alexander also observes that a prosecutor "is free to dismiss a case for any reason or no reason at all." This wide discretion, she writes, makes the prosecutor "the most powerful law enforcement official in the criminal justice system."
Prosecutors are not supposed to use this power simply to rack up guilty pleas or convictions...
IME, there is occasionally a disconnect between real life and theory...does an IRS auditor or state tax auditor ever - "over assess" - in looking for a settlement or to gain leverage over an "uncooperative" taxpayer?
The public answer will almost always be an emphatic NO...
Toronto Star
April 12
...Who is Florida State Attorney Angela Corey?
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1160390--trayvon-martin-shooting-who-is-florida-state-attorney-angela-corey
Badger52
04-17-2012, 08:26
...does an IRS auditor or state tax auditor ever - "over assess" - in looking for a settlement or to gain leverage over an "uncooperative" taxpayer?
Might depend on whose SuperPAC you donated to...
:cool:
The 411 about the Trayvon Martin timeline
http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2012/04/411.html
"A key moment in George Zimmerman's cellphone call to the Police Department in Sanford, Fla., on the fateful night of Feb. 26 occurs at 7:11:41 p.m., a little more than two minutes into a call that lasts about four minutes.
"He's running," says Zimmerman, referring to the "real suspicious guy" he'd called in to report. Almost immediately you hear on the recording a car door opening and what sounds like a warning beep indicating the key is still in the ignition. Shortly thereafter comes the unmistakable sound of wind blowing into a phone mouthpiece............................"
This interesting piece from yesterday puts an overhead view of the subdivision, key locations and the timeline together - and asks some good questions.
Was walking through the living room a few minutes ago and ABC was showing a claimed picture of the bloody back of Z man's head - they said was taken by a bystander in the area at the time. Jeez - what else is out there.
Edited to add ABC news story link:
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/abc-news-photo-taken-after-trayvon-martin-shooting/nMdbw/
[LINK] (http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2012-04-18.html#read_more)
NEGROES WITH GUNS
April 18, 2012
Liberals have leapt on the shooting death of Trayvon Martin in Florida to push for the repeal of "stand your ground" laws and to demand tighter gun control. (MSNBC'S Karen Finney blamed "the same people who stymied gun regulation at every point.")
This would be like demanding more funding for the General Services Administration after seeing how its employees blew taxpayer money on a party weekend in Las Vegas.
We don't know the facts yet, but let's assume the conclusion MSNBC is leaping to is accurate: George Zimmerman stalked a small black child and murdered him in cold blood, just because he was black.
If that were true, every black person in America should get a gun and join the National Rifle Association, America's oldest and most august civil rights organization.
Apparently this has occurred to no one because our excellent public education system ensures that no American under the age of 60 has the slightest notion of this country's history.
Gun control laws were originally promulgated by Democrats to keep guns out of the hands of blacks. This allowed the Democratic policy of slavery to proceed with fewer bumps and, after the Civil War, allowed the Democratic Ku Klux Klan to menace and murder black Americans with little resistance.
(Contrary to what illiterates believe, the KKK was an outgrowth of the Democratic Party, with overlapping membership rolls. The Klan was to the Democrats what the American Civil Liberties Union is today: Not every Democrat is an ACLU'er, but every ACLU'er is a Democrat. Same with the Klan.)
In 1640, the very first gun control law ever enacted on these shores was passed in Virginia. It provided that blacks -- even freemen -- could not own guns.
Chief Justice Roger Taney's infamous opinion in Dred Scott v. Sandford circularly argued that blacks could not be citizens because if they were citizens, they would have the right to own guns: "[I]t would give them the full liberty," he said, "to keep and carry arms wherever they went."
With logic like that, Republicans eventually had to fight a Civil War to get the Democrats to give up slavery.
Alas, they were Democrats, so they cheated.
After the war, Democratic legislatures enacted "Black Codes," denying black Americans the rights of citizenship -- such as the rather crucial one of bearing arms -- while other Democrats (sometimes the same Democrats) founded the Ku Klux Klan.
For more than a hundred years, Republicans have aggressively supported arming blacks, so they could defend themselves against Democrats.
The original draft of the Anti-Klan Act of 1871 -- passed at the urging of Republican president Ulysses S. Grant -- made it a federal felony to "deprive any citizen of the United States of any arms or weapons he may have in his house or possession for the defense of his person, family, or property." This section was deleted from the final bill only because it was deemed both beyond Congress' authority and superfluous, inasmuch as the rights of citizenship included the right to bear arms.
Under authority of the Anti-Klan Act, President Grant deployed the U.S. military to destroy the Klan, and pretty nearly completed the job.
But the Klan had a few resurgences in the early and mid-20th century. Curiously, wherever the Klan became a political force, gun control laws would suddenly appear on the books.
This will give you an idea of how gun control laws worked. Following the firebombing of his house in 1956, Dr. Martin Luther King, who was, among other things, a Christian minister, applied for a gun permit, but the Alabama authorities found him unsuitable. A decade later, he won a Nobel Peace Prize.
How's that "may issue" gun permit policy working for you?
The NRA opposed these discretionary gun permit laws and proceeded to grant NRA charters to blacks who sought to defend themselves from Klan violence -- including the great civil rights hero Robert F. Williams.
A World War II Marine veteran, Williams returned home to Monroe, N.C., to find the Klan riding high -- beating, lynching and murdering blacks at will. No one would join the NAACP for fear of Klan reprisals. Williams became president of the local chapter and increased membership from six to more than 200.
But it was not until he got a charter from the NRA in 1957 and founded the Black Armed Guard that the Klan got their comeuppance in Monroe.
Williams' repeated thwarting of violent Klan attacks is described in his stirring book, "Negroes With Guns." In one crucial battle, the Klan sieged the home of a black physician and his wife, but Williams and his Black Armed Guard stood sentry and repelled the larger, cowardly force. And that was the end of it.
As the Klan found out, it's not so much fun when the rabbit's got the gun.
The NRA's proud history of fighting the Klan has been airbrushed out of the record by those who were complicit with the KKK, Jim Crow and racial terror, to wit: the Democrats.
In the preface to "Negroes With Guns," Williams writes: "I have asserted the right of Negroes to meet the violence of the Ku Klux Klan by armed self-defense -- and have acted on it. It has always been an accepted right of Americans, as the history of our Western states proves, that where the law is unable, or unwilling, to enforce order, the citizens can, and must act in self-defense against lawless violence."
Contrary to MSNBC hosts, I do not believe the shooting in Florida is evidence of a resurgent KKK. But wherever the truth lies in that case, gun control is always a scheme of the powerful to deprive the powerless of the right to self-defense.
COPYRIGHT 2012 ANN COULTER
[LINK] (http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2012-04-18.html#read_more)
NEGROES WITH GUNS
April 18, 2012
COPYRIGHT 2012 ANN COULTER
lol I love Ann. :cool:
lol I love Ann. :cool:
I probably should have said a sentence or two.....actually I am not a fan of Ann, but I found her premise in this blog interesting. (And this is about the calmest I've ever seen her write.) I posted it to see if it would provoke discussion, even though I know she is not a historian and the odds are high she has gotten some of her 'facts' wrong. ;)
I know she is not a historian and the odds are high she has gotten some of her 'facts' wrong. ;)
I've yet to read anything she's written that included "wrong" facts.
She did date Mahler, though...:D
ZonieDiver
04-22-2012, 15:51
She did date Mahler, though...:D
I had no idea she was THAT old! :)
Oldrotorhead
04-22-2012, 19:26
I probably should have said a sentence or two.....actually I am not a fan of Ann, but I found her premise in this blog interesting. (And this is about the calmest I've ever seen her write.) I posted it to see if it would provoke discussion, even though I know she is not a historian and the odds are high she has gotten some of her 'facts' wrong. ;)
Even if only one or two of her "facts" she is way ahead of MSNBC and CBS combined. :D
Even if only one or two of her "facts" she is way ahead of MSNBC and CBS combined. :D
Now for some cross-thread points :D
I posted this (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36037) some time back, most of it concurs with Ann's post.
Aside from the Twitter Lynch Mob we now have death threats against a Judge.....wasn't Hal Turner incarcerated for verbal death threats against a Judge?
Daniel Halper
April 23, 2012 11:38 AM
George Zimmerman, the accused murderer of Florida teen Trayvon Martin, has been released from jail on bail. Meeting Zimmerman's release are calls (on Twitter) for him to be killed. As Twitchy reports, "Twitter lynch mob: George Zimmerman is out on bail? Let’s kill him!"
But it's not just Zimmerman who is at risk. In fact, there's already been a call on Twitter for the murder of the judge, Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester, who agreed to release Zimmerman on bail.
Writing on a Twitter, someone named @Rick_Cobain writes, "Zimmerman released from jail someone kill the judge!!!!!"
Zimmerman released from jail someone kill the judge!!!!!
— (@Rick_Cobain) April 23, 2012
Already 25 other people have retweeted @Rick_Cobain's call for murder.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/someone-kill-judge_640598.html
Aside from the Twitter Lynch Mob we now have death threats against a Judge.....wasn't Hal Turner incarcerated for verbal death threats against a Judge?The answer to your question can be found here <<LINK (https://www.google.com/)>>.
The answer to your question can be found here <<LINK (https://www.google.com/)>>.
My apologies Sig, it was a pink question
The firestorm continues to brew.....and the DoJ is still on a coffee break.
By: WKRG Staff | WKRG
Published: April 23, 2012
MOBILE, Alabama --
Mobile police need your help to catch a mob that beat Matthew Owens so badly that he's in critical condition.
According to police, Owens fussed at some kids playing basketball in the middle of Delmar Drive about 8:30 Saturday night. They say the kids left and a group of adults returned, armed with everything but the kitchen sink.
Police tell News 5 the suspects used chairs, pipes and paint cans to beat Owens.
Owens' sister, Ashley Parker, saw the attack. "It was the scariest thing I have ever witnessed." Parker says 20 people, all African American, attacked her brother on the front porch of his home, using "brass buckles, paint cans and anything they could get their hands on."
Police will only say "multiple people" are involved.
What Parker says happened next could make the fallout from the brutal beating even worse. As the attackers walked away, leaving Owen bleeding on the ground, Parker says one of them said "Now thats justice for Trayvon." Trayvon Martin is the unarmed teenager police say was shot and killed February 26 by neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman in Samford, Florida.
Police canvassed the area, but did not find any suspects. They're asking anyone with information to call them at 251-208-7211, Crime Stoppers at 251-208-7000, or text a tip to 274637 and include the keyword CRIME 411.
greenberetTFS
05-05-2012, 09:33
Very True..........:confused:
Big Teddy :munchin
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2012/may/8/house-vote-trayvon-amendment/
House Democrats said Tuesday they will offer an amendment to push to overturn stand-your-ground self-defense laws in states like Florida.
The amendment, which would withhold some grants from states that have such laws, will come as part of the House's debate on the Commerce Department spending bill.
"'Shoot-first' laws have already cost too many lives. In Florida alone, deaths due to self-defense have tripled since the law was enacted. Federal money shouldn't be spent supporting states with laws that endanger their own people," said Reps. Raul Grijalva of Arizona and Keith Ellison of Minnesota, the two Democrats who are offering the legislation. "This is no different than withholding transportation funds from states that don't enforce seat-belt laws."
Florida's law, which allows residents to use force in response to an attack without first having to retreat, has come under scrutiny after the nationally-polarizing death of teenager Trayvon Martin. George Zimmermann, a neighborhood watch volunteer, has been charged with murder in the case.
Snip
Streck-Fu
05-08-2012, 15:30
....deaths due to self-defense have tripled since the law was enacted....
WTF?!
Obviously, we need more victim deaths....
The Reaper
05-08-2012, 16:41
I would like to see the stats behind those numbers.
How many of the killings have been tried as wrongful?
If there has been no real increase, sounds like the citizens of Florida are doing a good job and saving the state money.
This bill is not about the law. It is about pandering to certain groups for votes.
TR
ZonieDiver
05-08-2012, 18:00
I would like to see the stats behind those numbers.
How many of the killings have been tried as wrongful?
If there has been no real increase, sounds like the citizens of Florida are doing a good job and saving the state money.
This bill is not about the law. It is about pandering to certain groups for votes.
TR
Raul Grijalva and facts! Ha!
"Statistics!? Statistics?! We don't need no stinking statistics!"
TrapLine
05-08-2012, 19:00
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2012/may/8/house-vote-trayvon-amendment/
House Democrats said Tuesday they will offer an amendment to push to overturn stand-your-ground self-defense laws in states like Florida.
The amendment, which would withhold some grants from states that have such laws, will come as part of the House's debate on the Commerce Department spending bill.
"'Shoot-first' laws have already cost too many lives. In Florida alone, deaths due to self-defense have tripled since the law was enacted. Federal money shouldn't be spent supporting states with laws that endanger their own people," said Reps. Raul Grijalva of Arizona and Keith Ellison of Minnesota, the two Democrats who are offering the legislation. "This is no different than withholding transportation funds from states that don't enforce seat-belt laws."
Florida's law, which allows residents to use force in response to an attack without first having to retreat, has come under scrutiny after the nationally-polarizing death of teenager Trayvon Martin. George Zimmermann, a neighborhood watch volunteer, has been charged with murder in the case.
Snip
Again, a Minnesota politician embarrasses the state:mad:. Keith Ellison should focus his CAIR more on real problems - beginning with the man in the mirror.
GratefulCitizen
05-08-2012, 20:19
"'Shoot-first' laws have already cost too many lives. In Florida alone, deaths due to self-defense have tripled since the law was enacted. Federal money shouldn't be spent supporting states with laws that endanger their own people," said Reps. Raul Grijalva of Arizona and Keith Ellison of Minnesota, the two Democrats who are offering the legislation. "This is no different than withholding transportation funds from states that don't enforce seat-belt laws."
Maybe they'll withhold funding of BATFE operations here in Arizona.
Or, maybe they'll withhold funding of border enforcement.
The congress can take their federal funding, roll it up real tight, and...
The congress can take their federal funding, roll it up real tight, and...Does that invitation include funding that benefits a certain shipping/logistics company's operations (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=department%20of%20transportation%20budget%20brea kdown&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CFwQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dot.gov%2Fbudget%2F2013%2Fdot _budget_highlights_fy_2013.pdf&ei=Rt6pT6C8H8Wc2QWhma2mAg&usg=AFQjCNG_y4KwHGTB_1Fdt0FojhQwippmwQ&cad=rja), funding that .GOV uses to help make sure that company treats its employees fairly (http://www.contractormisconduct.org/index.cfm/1,73,221,html?ContractorID=208&ranking=91), and also funding that the GSA awarded to that company for a government contract that expires in 2014 (http://www.gsa.gov/portal/content/103727)?
Badger52
05-09-2012, 10:19
Does that invitation include funding that benefits a certain shipping/logistics company's operations (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=department%20of%20transportation%20budget%20brea kdown&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CFwQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dot.gov%2Fbudget%2F2013%2Fdot _budget_highlights_fy_2013.pdf&ei=Rt6pT6C8H8Wc2QWhma2mAg&usg=AFQjCNG_y4KwHGTB_1Fdt0FojhQwippmwQ&cad=rja), funding that .GOV uses to help make sure that company treats its employees fairly (http://www.contractormisconduct.org/index.cfm/1,73,221,html?ContractorID=208&ranking=91), and also funding that the GSA awarded to that company for a government contract that expires in 2014 (http://www.gsa.gov/portal/content/103727)?I believe you've mixed the shape and/or color of your dots. You have the link to the (11+MB, yeah, thanks) download of the DOT 2013 budget, replete with POTUS' lofty rhetoric, you have the database reflecting court/out-of-court settlements between aggrieved workers and their employer (UPS), and a simple recording of a GSA contract between big-G and UPS for services.
Please connect the dots as relates to "grants" which seldom, in my experience, turn out to be free (of strings) by the Great Benefactor in Washington DC. I believe Grateful Citizen was speaking to that.
The bleating in this state by some over our current Governor is because, among other things, he "broke a contract over the light-rail project that already had the go-ahead (from previous gov)." Not true; what new Gov did was tell Big-G not to send any more of their money - the project was bloated and he, like many state governors, understands the implied tribute/conformance to be paid later. More state chief execs should grow a similar set; TX and AZ have theirs as well and could serve as regional examples.
This kind of game has been going around since the first kid said, "I'll buy you an ice cream but you gotta be my friend" and the ice cream was accepted. Sometimes the ice cream ain't worth it.
GratefulCitizen
05-09-2012, 11:47
Does that invitation include funding that benefits a certain shipping/logistics company's operations (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=department%20of%20transportation%20budget%20brea kdown&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CFwQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dot.gov%2Fbudget%2F2013%2Fdot _budget_highlights_fy_2013.pdf&ei=Rt6pT6C8H8Wc2QWhma2mAg&usg=AFQjCNG_y4KwHGTB_1Fdt0FojhQwippmwQ&cad=rja), funding that .GOV uses to help make sure that company treats its employees fairly (http://www.contractormisconduct.org/index.cfm/1,73,221,html?ContractorID=208&ranking=91), and also funding that the GSA awarded to that company for a government contract that expires in 2014 (http://www.gsa.gov/portal/content/103727)?
Well, the analogies need to be made congruent.
Also, arriving at a decision involves considering all of the pertinent roles and circles of influence.
In the case of the federal government and the Arizona government, it is within my circle of influence from 2 directions.
I am a shareholder of both the federal government and the Arizona government.
As a shareholder of the federal government, I want non-defense spending (as a percentage of GDP) to be reduced.
It would follow that I am generally against grants to any/all of the states.
As a shareholder of the Arizona government, I want the federal government to stay out of our business (especially when it comes to gun/self-defense laws).
It would follow that I am specifically against grants with strings attached meddling in gun/self-defense laws.
In the case of the federal government and UPS, it is within my circle of influence from 1 direction.
I am a shareholder of the federal government but I am not a shareholder nor a bondholder of UPS.
Concerning the DOT:
-The DOT as a whole should be scrapped and the powers/spending rescinded entirely.
-It is a waste of money.
Concerning the contractor misconduct:
-Obligation of contracts should be enforced.
-This is a valid function of government.
Concerning the GSA contract:
-If the federal government is going to spend money for a service, it should use the provider which delivers sufficient service at the least cost.
In the hypothetical case that I was a shareholder/bondholder of UPS:
-I would want government spending as a percentage of GDP to decrease.
-This would result in greater economic growth which benefits UPS because they get a piece of almost all domestic commerce.
As a UPS driver, the issues you cited are not within my circle of influence.
They may or may not have a significant effect in that realm, but how I would deal with any effects involves decisions within a much smaller/local circle of influence.
There is no way this will brought to the floor for a vote, especially in this political environment. All the Dems are doing is squacking hoping to make political points. For the same reason Repub leadership will never allow this to go forward.
Just to be contrary..... Who, me? I've fired off a couple of emails to my senators asking them how they feel about the Gov taxing me and then letting me have some of my money back only if the congresscritters from other states like the way I act. I gotta see how they weasel-word the reply :D
I believe you've mixed the shape and/or color of your dots. You have the link to the (11+MB, yeah, thanks) download of the DOT 2013 budget, replete with POTUS' lofty rhetoric, you have the database reflecting court/out-of-court settlements between aggrieved workers and their employer (UPS), and a simple recording of a GSA contract between big-G and UPS for services.
Please connect the dots as relates to "grants" which seldom, in my experience, turn out to be free (of strings) by the Great Benefactor in Washington DC. I believe Grateful Citizen was speaking to that.
The bleating in this state by some over our current Governor is because, among other things, he "broke a contract over the light-rail project that already had the go-ahead (from previous gov)." Not true; what new Gov did was tell Big-G not to send any more of their money - the project was bloated and he, like many state governors, understands the implied tribute/conformance to be paid later. More state chief execs should grow a similar set; TX and AZ have theirs as well and could serve as regional examples.
This kind of game has been going around since the first kid said, "I'll buy you an ice cream but you gotta be my friend" and the ice cream was accepted. Sometimes the ice cream ain't worth it.The common factor is the fact that UPS and its employees benefit directly from funding from the federal government.
A strident argument for limiting the power the federal government has over states through such funding (as offered in post #437) works better if it at least acknowledges the tension between that position and how one makes a living.
GratefulCitizen
05-09-2012, 16:24
The common factor is the fact that UPS and its employees benefit directly from funding from the federal government.
A strident argument for limiting the power the federal government has over states through such funding (as offered in post #437) works better if it at least acknowledges the tension between that position and how one makes a living.
I don't vote based on myopic self-interest.
Anyone who does so is a fool.
If voters delegate to the federal government the authority to meddle with their neighbors, they should not be suprised when that authority is used against them.
This applies to self-defense laws or resources confiscated through the spending of fiat currency.
The federal government wants the people to be predictable and dependent, so they can change the rules faster than the people can adjust.
An abundance of diverse state governments competing for productive citizens give the people ways to avoid the heavy hand of tyranny.
Government should be predictable and slow-moving.
Top domestic priorities should be enforcement of contracts and protection of private property (which would logically include your ability to protect your life).
This results in the rule of law, rather than mob rule, elite rule, and the inevitable consequence thereof: despotism.
Peregrino
05-09-2012, 17:14
The common factor is the fact that UPS and its employees benefit directly from funding from the federal government.
A strident argument for limiting the power the federal government has over states through such funding (as offered in post #437) works better if it at least acknowledges the tension between that position and how one makes a living.
Is the Federal Government funding UPS (a la the USPS) or is it purchasing a service (spending money to contract deliveries)? I think you've created an apples/oranges situation. :munchin
GratefulCitizen
05-09-2012, 18:04
Is the Federal Government funding UPS (a la the USPS) or is it purchasing a service (spending money to contract deliveries)? I think you've created an apples/oranges situation. :munchin
Not sure how significant those federal contracts are to a private shipping company which makes north of $50 billion/year in revenue.
Streck-Fu
05-09-2012, 18:57
Not sure how significant those federal contracts are to a private shipping company which makes north of $50 billion/year in revenue.
They can still be very significant.
New developments.
ABC World News
Diane Saywer
May 15, 2012
"A medical report compiled by the family physician of Trayvon Martin shooter George Zimmerman and obtained exclusively by ABC News found that Zimmerman was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-injuries-trayvon/story?id=16353532
I heard this on talk radio yesterday. They claim profiling and stalking. This can carry the death penalty.
I guess the FBI hasn't had any luck with high profile cases recently, so they are considering all their options with this one.
http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474981334598
I heard this on talk radio yesterday. They claim profiling and stalking. This can carry the death penalty.
I guess the FBI hasn't had any luck with high profile cases recently, so they are considering all their options with this one.
http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474981334598
If he doesn't absolutely get the max possible sentence for whatever the charge, there will be severe rioting, especially if it happens in July/August when it's hot.
If he doesn't absolutely get the max possible sentence for whatever the charge, there will be severe rioting, especially if it happens in July/August when it's hot.
The only way to avoid that or at least begin prelim damage control now, is a trial in which GZ has his "day in court."