View Full Version : Be Prepared
Peregrino
07-09-2008, 23:10
Food for Thought.
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 7:55 AM
To: DailyBrief; Emergency Management; HazMat
Subject: [EM] "Creeping Complacency"
The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) reminded last week that July marks the 5th annual National Preparedness Month. This comes amidst new warnings about very real intelligence that Al Qaeda and allied jihadists are re-doubling their efforts to attack the US, and indications that the Middle East is a powder keg that could blow at any time. Either of these events would result in unprecedented hardships for Americans.
Yet, a new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll disturbingly shows American's fears of a terrorist attack occurring anytime soon has reached its lowest point since 9/11.
But, as HSToday.us has reported, complacency has become a national crisis according to worried authorities, and at a time in history when the most unimaginable of crises not only are possible, but highly likely
- be they natural or manmade.
Disaster readiness authorities are alarmed by this growing complacency, especially readiness for catastrophic medical crises brought on by hurricanes like Katrina, earthquakes, a pandemic or some other serious pathogenic outbreak or a radiological or biological terrorist attack.
A Harris poll conducted in June 2007 found only 14 percent of respondents said they are "very prepared" for an emergency involving power and water outages, medical help, and fuel shortages, and only 44 percent are somewhat prepared for a homeland disaster - of any kind.
"While majorities of Americans say they are prepared, this does not seem to be the case," the Harris Poll said, adding, "when asked if they had done certain action items, majorities say they have not."
Sixty-one percent, for instance, had not "made a specific plan for how you and your family would leave your home if you had to evacuate in case of an emergency situation," and 68 percent had not "put together a disaster supplies kit with water, food, medicine, and other supplies."
This "creeping complacency," as security authorities call it, has been spreading with alarming speed and virulency across the nation.
Authorities like former White House counterterrorism czar Richard Clarke and former Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson have been warning about it for years.
It remains a cause for consternation on the part of top officials, including DHS Secretary Michael Chertoff, who said recently that the problem is among the most vexing during his tenure at DHS. Federal Emergency Management Agency Director David Paulison, who has repeatedly expressed frustration over the level of civilian preparedness, also recently said the problem of preparedness readiness has become a "pet peeve" of his.
It's no wonder DHS officials are concerned about complacency. Its preparedness campaign launched in 2003 in partnership with the non-profit public service Advertising Council to educate and empower Americans to prepare for and respond to emergencies, has involved more than $700 million in donated media support and has been touted as one of the most successful campaigns in the Ad Council's more than 65-year history.
Maybe so, but complacency remains a growing problem. Almost as soon as we were attacked on 9/11, complacency began to spread.
As the ruble of the downed World Trade Center Towers continued to smolder, former Marine Colonel William Parish (who was commanding officer of the Marine Corps Security Force Battalion in 1996 when terrorists drove a truck filled with explosives into the Khobar Towers complex in Saudi Arabia) warned only a month after 9/11 that "after a terrorist attack, complacency can set in very quickly. People go into denial - we all want to think that an attack is a one-of-a-kind event.
But the truth is that there are probably terrorists cells, 'sleepers,'
at work right now, planning for an attack scheduled to take place years down the road, figuring out how to fund it, how to implement it."
Indeed. Yet, despite all the warnings about the uncompromising religious motivation of Islamist jihadists - and even homegrown terrorists - to take their time in planning the next spectacular attack, the citizenry apparently is choosing to ignore it, whether out of misunderstanding the warnings because they don't understand what's actually behind all the concern, or whether because of some psychologically rooted wiring that accounts for waning lack of trepidation.
But that doesn't make the complacency any less problematic or disturbing.
The problem of preparedness complacency was highlighted again recently at the Pacific Health Summit meeting in Seattle by Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Director Dr. Julie Gerberding, who warned attendees that "public health enemy No. 1 is the challenge of complacency and our inability to maintain a focus on threats when they are around the corner or potentially in our backyard."
"People have very short attention spans and when something is in the news for a while, it becomes old news and then it's no news," she said, stressing that "we have to be very strategic to make sure that the leaders and governments fill in for the tendency toward complacency."
Meanwhile, Americans' fear of terrorism is at record low. The new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll shows a scant 35 percent of Americans believes a terrorist attack is going to occur on American soil anytime soon.
This time last summer, 41 percent of those who responded to the same poll said they believed a terrorist attack on the homeland was forthcoming.
Apparently, with each passing year America isn't attacked, fewer and fewer Americans believe it will be assailed. Concurrently, more and more also don't see the need to prepare for any type of crisis - even residents of areas that are vulnerable to catastrophic disasters, like those living in the Gulf Coast states or in or near floodplains and lands susceptible to wildfires.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Monsoon65
08-27-2008, 13:48
Well, the weather people are saying that Gustav might hit the Gulf Coast states. Anyone down there getting ready for this???
Well, the weather people are saying that Gustav might hit the Gulf Coast states. Anyone down there getting ready for this???
I'm getting ready for higher gas prices.
In South Central Pa, the gas prices were just going down to around 3.45 $ a gallon and still dropping.
If it does infact hit the Gulf Coast that'll be history.
Diablo Blanco
08-28-2008, 13:46
Not entirely correct.
The MIOX does not require salt tablets and will work with any NaCl source, to include MRE salt packets, table salt, rock salt, or dried sea salt.
If you are going to have plenty of salt along for processing meat or cooking, then you have plenty for water purification, and the 123 batteries become the limiting factor.
I would go with the Li Ion rechargable 123s, AAs, AAAs, 9v., etc., with some alkaline or lithium batteries as backups.
Good list otherwise, some new items to look at.
TR
After much deliberation, pro and con comparisons and logic I decided to move to the MIOX for the reasons TR mentioned including the fact that it is more durable and doesn't have a 'lamp' to break.
Thanks Reaper!
Re: Steri-pen and MIOX
Rei has customer reviews that I found interesting to read.
I'm not sure where this next part would go on the list, but for those with the space and inclination to build it, a purely solar powered ice maker.
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/P13.pdf
The MIOX is a cool gadget, even my 5 and 7 year old could use it. The Steripens use UV which from what my wife has said have better use as a secondary source for purification/sanitizing. I'll take her word on that.
Since reading this article I have picked up, the MIOX, 2 ILBE's with Day packs, 3 Sleeping bags, Stored up on some MRE's to get us were going, 2 Tents, a Magnesium/striker and 550 Cord which by chance I have found quite useful around the house on 5 or 6 occassions.
Next on the priority list is a first aid kit and small survival kits.
Aside from the purchases I broke the kids into camping outdoors in the backyard and they are now raring to hits the woods for the real deal! And lastly I took the wife to the range and she did damn good keeping her rounds in the target area even at 100 yds.
It is a good start I think.
In addition to the Mg block, I'd recommend a bagful of Bic lighters, and a bunch of cottonballs saturated with petroleum jelly (the cheap alternative to commercial tinder wads).
For the price and utility, the Adventure Medical Kits Pocket Survival Pak is a handy little survival kit. Add water purification tablets and some matches and you have a kit with all the basics (supplemented by what you carry in your pockets, such as a good knife, a lighter, an LED light and a bandana) that's small and light enough to make it likely you'll carry it with you.
a bunch of cottonballs saturated with petroleum jelly (the cheap alternative to commercial tinder wads).
Wrapping the ball in aluminum foil also allows you to cut an "X" in the ball, pull out a little cotton, and use it as a small candle. Also, individually wrapped like that, it gives you another source for lip balm.
Pat
Diablo Blanco
09-03-2008, 00:54
In addition to the Mg block, I'd recommend a bagful of Bic lighters, and a bunch of cottonballs saturated with petroleum jelly (the cheap alternative to commercial tinder wads).
For the price and utility, the Adventure Medical Kits Pocket Survival Pak is a handy little survival kit. Add water purification tablets and some matches and you have a kit with all the basics (supplemented by what you carry in your pockets, such as a good knife, a lighter, an LED light and a bandana) that's small and light enough to make it likely you'll carry it with you.
I added two rolled up Breast Milk bags to my AMK in addition to the water tabs. They're tough, roll up small and you can buy a pack of 20 or 40 for less than $8. Sizes are all about the same 6-8 oz. Gerber is supposedly the toughest of the brands if you can find them. Now I don't have to worry about carrying what to carry water in. That and a space bag, knife, Doug Ritter photon and a lighter are my minimal carry.
I believe in a modular system that builds on the smaller kits as you go up (more economical for those with less money). When going on a trail or bike ride I add the above carry to a molle ACU pouch with a AMK ultralight .5 FAK, suscreen, bandana, rolled up platypus 1L platypus water bottle, 20 ft 550 cord, petzl e+lite headlamp, and hand sanitizer.
I usually have a full water bottle/camelback. If I'm expecting a longer outing I'll add on another molle canteen pouch with canteen, cup, cup-stove, more water tabs, magnesium fire starter and a 35MM film canister packed full of the cotton swabs soaked in vaseline.
As distance or expected time increases I add onto the kit with other items (poncho, liner, MIOX, food, leatherman, etc)
PSM I like your idea of the foil with an X. I'm going to have to try that now. Usually I scrape the magnesium into the vaseline-cotton swab and light from there. Perfect in windy conditions as the vaseline traps the magnesium shavings.
On the EDC subject. I've been doing some experimenting. The Ritter Photon I ordered came with two mounts that are very handy: a neck cord with a clasp that the photon easily attaches to, and a magnetic hat clip that it attaches to just as easily. The clip has little magnets that make it easy for attaching to a bunk, vehicle or metal object increasing the useful factor. However don't try to squeeze the clip so much to get it onto a kevlar as the metal in the spring might break.
I also shelled out $10 for the Gerber Artifact tool. Which is really handy if you travel and don't like checking a bag and don't want to go without a tool. The blade is an exacto blade and can be switched out or removed without any tools. It is surprisngly sturdy and has all the tools one would need on a daily basis. A leatherman it is not however I have only reached for my leatherman once in the last three weeks since I got the artifact. I usually keep the photon clipped to the artifact and those to my meager set of keys.
Thus far For my small pocket sized survival tin
1 - SMALL Knife
1 - Mini Compass
1 - Set of Waterproof/Windproof Matches with Striker
2 - Quick Fire Tinder Tabs
1 - 2 inch Mini Glowstick
1 - Mini Signal Mirror
1 - P38 Can Opener
1 - Single Edged Razor Blade
1 - Set of 2 pins and 1 Sewing Needle
1 - 2 inch Sealed Medical Gauze
2 - Bandaids
1 - Alcohol Wipe
20 ft of 10lb Fishing Line
20 ft. of 2-lb Fishing Line
3 - Fishing Hooks - Various Sizes
2 - Fishing Swivels
3 - BB Shot Sinkers
Never crossed my that petroleum jelly, cotton balls and aluminum foil could be so useful! Someting new to try out.
Chris Cram
09-15-2008, 11:10
http://www.ready.gov/
This link came through office email last week.
While reading through their recommendations, I noticed one thing missing; then I realized that I had seen no mention of it on this thread…
(red wheat doesn't count)
In the situation where the power is out and phones are down…
Where are you going to get your CASH? ATM’s wont work, Credit/Debit cards are almost useless, unless the store still has the hardware to RUN a card by hand.
How much cash should you have in your KIT?
And it what form should you have it?
Just a thought.:munchin
82ndtrooper
09-15-2008, 12:23
Great thread, lot's of reading and realized a year ago that I needed to do some really hard purchasing for items listed through out the thread.
Here's the deal here today. High wind storms have more of the northern Kentucky and southern Ohio electric out. Schools are closed, college campuses are closed, Ohio is in state of emergency, ice supplies are already gone from the grocery's and gas stations, and most people are flooding the markets for canned food goods. It's not Katrina, but yesterday being without electricity was a surprise given it didn't come on till for us till about an hour ago. Most of some hundred thousand homes are going to be without electric through the weekend, at least that's the estimate.
How I was prepared as a result of this thread.
1. Food stores. I have three cases of MRE's. One more case if half eaten.
2. Coleman stove. Individual type with a store of 12 canisters. Used last night to make soups and heat canned beef stew and boil water for Minute Rice. Nobody here went hungry last night.
3. Light. Both a Coleman lantern and Surfire LED lights where used. Used the Coleman propane light outside and actually had neighbors on my patio with what beer they had left in a cooler with ice. Passed the time pretty well. We wound up having to come inside and use candles for light. I cooked another batch of canned beefstew and two more people enjoyed it with rice and hot sauce.
4. Radio. It's a combo AM/FM with solar, battery and hand crank power with an LED 60 lumen light on on the front. We listened to all the service announcements and then music while drinking beer. Had extra batteries for both of the Surefires and the radio. (I didn't trust the hand crank thingy)
Nothing to disastrous, but what was surprising was I was the only one with what supplies I had, other than beer. ;)
We had heard of some looting up the street at the strip mall so my EDC gun was on my hip and longuns where inside loaded.
It was more like a psuedo camping trip. All is good at the moment.
The Reaper
09-15-2008, 13:02
http://www.ready.gov/
This link came through office email last week.
While reading through their recommendations, I noticed one thing missing; then I realized that I had seen no mention of it on this thread…
(red wheat doesn't count)
In the situation where the power is out and phones are down…
Where are you going to get your CASH? ATM’s wont work, Credit/Debit cards are almost useless, unless the store still has the hardware to RUN a card by hand.
How much cash should you have in your KIT?
And it what form should you have it?
Just a thought.:munchin
I would say that it is prudent to have two month's expenses in cash locked away at home (or as much as you can afford), and I always tried to have enough cash in my wallet to get home from wherever I was. In Latin America, that was usually $1,000 or so.
I prefer US currency with at least $500 in twenties or less.
Too few people know the value of gold and silver (or will not acknowledge it) to make it useful in the US. Forget diamonds. Cash is king.
If you want barter items, in the short term, fuel, alcohol, or food are probably good bets, if you are comfortable that you have extras. Batteries, ammo, first aid supplies, hand cranked radios/lights, fishing gear, etc., could also work in a longer term situation. Pretty much anything with a long shelf life, compact, of significant value or utility, and hard to come by after a disaster should work.
TR
Chris Cram
09-15-2008, 15:11
...
If you want barter items, in the short term, fuel, alcohol, or food are probably good bets, if you are comfortable that you have extras. Batteries, ammo, first aid supplies, hand cranked radios/lights, fishing gear, etc., could also work in a longer term situation. Pretty much anything with a long shelf life, compact, of significant value or utility, and hard to come by after a disaster should work.
TR
TR,
I think you left a big one out of your list... cigarettes/tobacco.
I was amazed to see soldiers trade their parkas or sleeping bags for a few packs of cigarettes. And that was when smokes were cheep.
I would say that it is prudent to have two month's expenses in cash locked away at home (or as much as you can afford), and I always tried to have enough cash in my wallet to get home from wherever I was. In Latin America, that was usually $1,000 or so.
I prefer US currency with at least $500 in twenties or less. TR
TR Sir,
Great tip! FWIW, when I went to Peru, two of my 100$ bills were refused by merchants and a local bank, due to excessive wrinkles on one and a 1/2 centimeter rip on another. :rolleyes:
Uggh. Luckily, I was able to trade them with some locals.:o
Lesson learned! For my next trip...will only take crisp notes.
Holly
My concern with cash is that it is metal and paper and what will determine its worth or worthlessness? If it is really bad I want something that will provide me with an ability to provide Water, Food, Warmth, Shelter, Protection or Medical. The more unstable the situation and the longer the duration the less I see the value in cash.
I was thinking barter and TR answered the question. If you were going to plan on bartering of ammo what type would you consider worthwhile due to it's common use? I was thinking 22LR, 12 GA, .223/5.56, .243, 9mm and some .308
I can see where Tobacco could be very useful considering the cravings of those that use the product. Alcohol and drugs fall into the same catagory, though Alcohol has other uses than drinking.
The other item mentioned that hit home was the radio, a week or two ago I spent the night alone in the middle of nowhere without the typical comforts of home. The thing I missed the most during my brief outting was hearing another voice and nowing what was going on in the world.
My little outting also gave me new insight into how useful/important that dinky survival tin, a knife and a poncho can be when you are stranded. Around 3/4 of the year the tin, knife and poncho do well, but for the the 3 winter months I must do somemore planning. My main concern for winter would be food. If I have the luxury of a firearm it is no worry, but if not....Aside from foraging through garbage, I am thinking snares and traps would get better results than ice fishing
My main concern for winter would be food.
Personally, mine is warmth and shelter. I've been hungry before...it sucks, but it doesn't kill as fast as hypothermia.
Diablo Blanco
09-15-2008, 23:41
To put the seriousness of Preparedness into perspective, when I was in Bosnia, daughters/mothers/women would resort to the oldest profession in the world and whore themselves out for food. There were several instances where the exchange was made for an MRE, which consequently fed a small family of four or five for a day. I took no part in this market but nearly everyone I worked with had been approached with the concept at one time or another.
What if that was your daughter/wife/sister/mother? Get Prepared!
http://www.ready.gov/
This link came through office email last week.
While reading through their recommendations, I noticed one thing missing; then I realized that I had seen no mention of it on this thread…
(red wheat doesn't count)
In the situation where the power is out and phones are down…
Where are you going to get your CASH? ATM’s wont work, Credit/Debit cards are almost useless, unless the store still has the hardware to RUN a card by hand.
How much cash should you have in your KIT?
And it what form should you have it?
Just a thought.:munchin
There is a varying consensus on this and where the money should be. On my car keys I have one of those little capsules that is just big enough for one rolled up bill. In it I keep a bill large enough to fill my tank, which from full to empty can get me 300-450 miles away. I do use the bill once in awhile and replace it immediately so I am always cognizant of its presence (plus its good for a taxi ride home from the bar when you've had too much).
While many people in our country don't have the means to carry 2 months of cash in a safe, it is still advisable to have at least 3 months, with 12 months being optimal. Preparedness isn't just about natural disasters.
In the GoBag/BOB $300 in small bills seems sufficient. You don't want the amount too small to not be useful and not too large that it seriously hurts you if your bag is stolen from your house/vehicle (when you're not there)
In addition to cash I like to have extra stuff on hand that I wouldn't mind parting with for barter. Tobacco will always be a commodity, medicine, an extra sleeping bag, cold weather clothing, water purifier, even a knife could potentially be worth their weight in gold.
Just imagine that your house was destroyed and your vehicle missing all in one day. All you have is your small kit, what is going to quickly become essential to your survival and recovery? Other people will want that as well.
Personally, mine is warmth and shelter. I've been hungry before...it sucks, but it doesn't kill as fast as hypothermia.
I agree, warmth/shelter are tops of my winter list and I have plan(s) for those. My hurdle in winter is food and I need to work on getting food without a gun or a hook.
The Reaper
09-16-2008, 09:56
If you were going to plan on bartering of ammo what type would you consider worthwhile due to it's common use? I was thinking 22LR, 12 GA, .223/5.56, .243, 9mm and some .308
There is little point in stockpiling ammo in calibers for which you do not own weapons.
I like .22LR, both for its light weight, compact size, and ability to be used for small change. Plus it doesn't necessarily give the person you are trading it to the ability to use it on you from an extended range later. Shotgun shells are way too heavy for mobile barter, but I suppose if you were holed up with a large cache, it might be okay, and 12 gauge is definitely the way to go. Maybe a few cases in 20 gauge, if you want to celebrate diversity. I would keep it limited to slugs, Buck, and #6 shot. In pistol rounds, ask your local dealer what their top sellers are. I would guess 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, .38 Special/.357 Magnum, and possibly .44 Mag or .45 Colt, if you live out West or in bear country. I would consider stocking excess for barter in 9mm, .45 ACP, and .38/.357. For rifle rounds, in addition to the 5.56 and 7.62 NATO, I suspect that 7.62x39 would be very popular (much more so than .243), and significantly less expensive to stockpile right now. I might be careful about the people I traded it to. Then look at the hunting rounds that are going to be popular in your area. Probably .30-06 would be the most popular here. From there, you could descend into a ton of rounds like .45-70, .300 Win Mag, .270, 7mm Mag, .243, etc., etc., but IMHO, I would consider keeping 5.56, 7.62, .30-06, and 7.62x39 for trade.
Those who want to keep their guns running might want to consider the above from a perspective of where you are going to get ammo for your .345 WinRemFed Ultra Long/Short Express Magnum if the specialty gun stores are closed. Stick with military or popular sporting rounds.
Reloading for yourself as well as for others for profit or trade might be a popular way to fill the days once the TV is off.
Tobacco is a good catch, I left it off by oversight. You do need to remember that tobacco products have a limited shelf life, and if you are stocking items you do not use yourself just for trade value, consider how you will rotate or renew your stock.
I am surprised that no one has mentioned salt. Kept dry, it never goes bad, and is a staple for everyone. You can buy it inexpensively and in large quantities without problems. A couple of 50 pound bags could come in very handy. In the old days, salt was always an important trade item. Sugar or honey are also great trade items withour spoilage problems. Spices such as pepper, cinnamon, etc. would be great to have for trade and take up little room, but tend to have relatively short expiration dates. Maybe if vaccuum sealed and stored in a freezer. How about a case of Tabasco as well? At least all of the leftover mini-bottles left from the MREs.
In many cases, snare wire and fishing gear, as I mentioned, are much more efficient food gathering devices than bullets, are lighter, and cannot normally be used against you.
HTH.
TR
Another question I thought of today while driving in the rush hour herd.
In a senario were we have a man made disaster in the near vicinity of where I live would the major highways and roads leading in and around Military bases be locked down? Would the citizens be directed to rally points or containment areas like FEMA did in Katrina.
Diablo Blanco
09-16-2008, 21:44
Inline with barter and being prepared I found a mobile Solar/Turbine system that could be used to supplement/compliment whatever you have in place now. You can sell power to the needy when you are not using it yourself.
It is pricey though. Anyone know of comparably capable but less expensive systems? How about a do it yourself kit?
http://www.solarstik.com/pb_tp_1.php (http://www.solarstik.com/pb_tp_1.php)
I may have stumbled across a new and (to my eyes) better alternative. While thumbing through my July American Rifleman I discovered a product review (pg 28) for TriSquare eXRS Two-Way Radios ( www.trisquare.us ). I spent the next hour doing research and reading various articles and reviews. End result - I bought two sets from Amazon and will probably be moving the FRS radios one step lower on the plan. I'll be doing my own testing over the next few weeks and should have a better feel for capabilities when I'm finished. I'm enthusiastic about the potential.
Peregrino,
How did the eXRS radios turn out?
Pat
RT AXE 10
09-29-2008, 07:52
Reaper, Salute
You have very good points in your write up... I have been involved with a few disaster relief operations and believe you would do great by connecting with FEMA... They are still figuring out how to best solve the disaster problems world wide... Any input such as yours may be what they could use, now and the future.
Great input... Thank You
ASSESOR DE LA PRAL
I've developed a pretty hefty supply of food storage over the past few years. I realized a little while back that:
1. I didn't know how to cook all of it really well (ie: red wheat??)
2. My family wasn't used to eating subsistence food.
So I've made a goal for myself that twice a week I'll cook totally and completely off of my storage shelves. I do cheat a little and use frozen meat because that needs to be rotated. But part of the plan is to eat food that isn't necessarily up to the standards my family has grown to expect. It also really helps the grocery budget and right now, that's a good thing. I am also trying different cooking methods out so that I'm not 100% dependent on my oven and stove.
Today is one of those days and I'm cooking chicken wings in the crockpot "Indonesian" style with a peanut butter and soy sauce mix. I figure we'll have rice and canned veggies.
If anyone is interested in getting together some meal ideas or recipes that are pretty good but don't require fancy cooking and use pantry-stocked items, I think that would be great. I know there are some sprinkled in this thread, but pulling them out into a thread of their own might be helpful? I know at least for my kids I need to get their bellies used to eating more wheat products and the like because even if we don't "need" to use this food, I do need to rotate it so it isn't all for naught.
How about a critque of prep....blow some holes in it so I can tweak it.
For Bugout.
Fixed my wife up with a BOB containing first aid supplies, band aids, gauze, antibiotic ointment, burn creme, sting pads, snake bite kit, alcohol pads, eyewash, pain killers, ice pack, scissors, tweezers, peroxide, amodeum. Energy bars, compass, fishing kit, (2) trash bags, (3) Ziplocks, 10' 550 cord, tender sticks, pocket chain saw, 5 Bics, MRE Matches, Nylgene Bottle, whistle, signal mirror, 3 light sticks, four compact ponchos, 4 space blankets, (8) AA Batteries, (2)CR123 Batteries, CRKT knife, (2)micro lights and a GPS with routed rally point and destination.
I still need to get her a MIOX.
I got pretty much the same setup.
On normal week days my city traffic travels North in the morning and South at 5:00PM. I am figuring you have 30 minutes maybe 45 if during a weekday to get on the road and avoid the herd. It takes 10 to 15 minutes to reach the HWY driving the speed limit of 35.
I am generally working South during the day, my wife is North and she works nights, the school is less than a mile away. The plan is that if a senario arises that requires abandoning the city she or me (depending on the time of day), grabs the can with the 9mm, the AR and my marked ammo can, they get the kids and head to a rally point about 50 miles South of the city. When they reach the rally point they wait 5 minutes, if she or me doesn't arrive they are to continue on non-stop to the destination or drive as far as they can, ditch the vehicle and then hoof it, avoiding populated areas and possibly traveling by night and resting by day.
Haven't quite figured out what to do with the Dog. She can find game, even catch it, but she barks to warn of apporching strangers.
The Reaper
10-03-2008, 07:37
Does she know how to use everything in the kit?
TR
Nice post.
When they reach the rally point they wait 5 minutes, if she or me doesn't arrive they are to continue on non-stop to the destination or drive as far as they can, ditch the vehicle and then hoof it, avoiding populated areas and possibly traveling by night and resting by day.
I'm curious, why a 5 min sync-up? In the advent that you need to escape the city--in the inevitable chaos that will exist--how likely is it that you will meet at a rally point within 5 minutes of each other? Does the 5-minute rally point help you in someway? If so, would 15 min be better? Does the 5 min rally point create a vulnerablity? If so, should it be eliminated? Would it be prudent to leave a signal/sign, e.g. blaze on a tree, to indicate that one of you has reached the rally point and continued on (so the following person doesn't wait around)?
GPS. What if your GPS is not working? Maps? Compasses?
Water. Looks like you plan to make water on site. What if that proves difficult initially? Or you are delayed en route? Do you need some water either cached or with you. (Me, I like having some water in hand.) Frankly, in a civillian emergency, I'd rather carry 10# of water than 10# of weapons and ammo.
Fire: I know everyone loves a Bic, but I'd add some hurricane/lifeboat matches in place of the MRE matches. You can practically light them underwater and they don't go out until they have finished burning down to the end. I remember one very wet camping trip where hurricane matches saved the day for me. My $0.02.
First Aid kit: maybe add some Benadryl or other antihistamine. If anyone is using regular medications (HTN, diabetes, seizure disorder, asthma) it might be a good idea to have a supply pre-packed and ready to go (you will need to rotate this out, however. No point in bugging out with out of date meds).
I don't remember seeing tape in your list. Tape has just under one thousand uses--have medical tape and 100mph/duct tape handy. Also consider some powdered rehydration solution for the kit -- especially important if the immodium doesn't kick in right away.
Just a few thoughts--never had to E&E or bug out myself. Concur x 100 with Reaper: knowledge is more important than gear.
I'm curious what the medical professionals think of having peroxide in a FAK. My simple understanding is that it kills not only germs, but also healthy tissue, and thus isn't the best choice for an antimicrobial. Maybe stick an ACE wrap or roll of Coban in your kit to help with pressure dressings/stabilizing a joint/securing a splint or a cold pack/holding a dressing in place? A 10cc syringe for irrgating wounds is also helpful, and doesn't take up much space.
Even if you're looking to limit the size of the bag, I'd stick a wool skullcap and pair of wool glove liners, plus a pair of heavy work gloves in your BOB. Keeping warm is important, and just the hat and gloves can go a long way in maintaining body heat. The work gloves protect not only your hands, but the wool gloves if necessary.
I agree with AF Doc--5 minutes isn't a long wait at an RP. Heck, moving through the woods on foot (in other words, no traffic jams/accidents/blocked roads to slow you down), a standard wait time at an RP (assuming you don't get flushed by a pursuing force) is 30 minutes. I'd even consider 1-2 hours, depending on your analysis of vehicle traffic routes, potential choke points, and the time required to collect kids and supplies and then travel to the RP. What is the importance of getting more than 50 miles outside the city that quickly?
Does she know how to use everything in the kit?
TR
90%, were working on the GPS and compass/maps and when the other MIOX arrives we'll go over that. The 5 and 7 year old have the MIOX down as far as adding salt, adding water, pushing the button, color coding on the strips and rotation for back up. We still have to do some education on turning a poncho into a shelter.
My wife is instruction oriented, so I am in the process of making a detailed list of instructions.
The weapons she knows how to use, but if time is critical every minute might count and they might get left behind. And as many of you have mentioned they can be used against you. Secondly you have to be willing to cross that line.....gotta think on that one a bit more.
Nice post.
I'm curious, why a 5 min sync-up? In the advent that you need to escape the city--in the inevitable chaos that will exist--how likely is it that you will meet at a rally point within 5 minutes of each other? Does the 5-minute rally point help you in someway? If so, would 15 min be better? Does the 5 min rally point create a vulnerablity? If so, should it be eliminated? Would it be prudent to leave a signal/sign, e.g. blaze on a tree, to indicate that one of you has reached the rally point and continued on (so the following person doesn't wait around)?
GPS. What if your GPS is not working? Maps? Compasses?
Water. Looks like you plan to make water on site. What if that proves difficult initially? Or you are delayed en route? Do you need some water either cached or with you. (Me, I like having some water in hand.) Frankly, in a civillian emergency, I'd rather carry 10# of water than 10# of weapons and ammo.
Fire: I know everyone loves a Bic, but I'd add some hurricane/lifeboat matches in place of the MRE matches. You can practically light them underwater and they don't go out until they have finished burning down to the end. I remember one very wet camping trip where hurricane matches saved the day for me. My $0.02.
First Aid kit: maybe add some Benadryl or other antihistamine. If anyone is using regular medications (HTN, diabetes, seizure disorder, asthma) it might be a good idea to have a supply pre-packed and ready to go (you will need to rotate this out, however. No point in bugging out with out of date meds).
I don't remember seeing tape in your list. Tape has just under one thousand uses--have medical tape and 100mph/duct tape handy. Also consider some powdered rehydration solution for the kit -- especially important if the immodium doesn't kick in right away.
Just a few thoughts--never had to E&E or bug out myself. Concur x 100 with Reaper: knowledge is more important than gear.
I was second guessing the 5 minute sync today as well. What I was thinking was one vehicle would be good. If the situation is that urgent non-stop for her would be a priority, I ain't worried about me I'll get there one way or the other.
Water.....In the area of travel water is very abundant throughout, but I was thinking some bottled water would be a good very idea and empties could later be used for water storage.
Migraines are the only medical we deal with. Allergies are always a potential issue and I need to add that. First Aid kit is prepack. And out of curiosity how important is the expiration date? Other things I am familiar with have a safety factor built-in, usually 3 to 1 and that has more to do with liability. Rehydration salts...I do have them.
I did forget the tape....Gorilla Tape will be added. I have the blast match but it wasn't on the list.
I'm curious what the medical professionals think of having peroxide in a FAK. My simple understanding is that it kills not only germs, but also healthy tissue, and thus isn't the best choice for an antimicrobial. Maybe stick an ACE wrap or roll of Coban in your kit to help with pressure dressings/stabilizing a joint/securing a splint or a cold pack/holding a dressing in place? A 10cc syringe for irrgating wounds is also helpful, and doesn't take up much space.
Even if you're looking to limit the size of the bag, I'd stick a wool skullcap and pair of wool glove liners, plus a pair of heavy work gloves in your BOB. Keeping warm is important, and just the hat and gloves can go a long way in maintaining body heat. The work gloves protect not only your hands, but the wool gloves if necessary.
I agree with AF Doc--5 minutes isn't a long wait at an RP. Heck, moving through the woods on foot (in other words, no traffic jams/accidents/blocked roads to slow you down), a standard wait time at an RP (assuming you don't get flushed by a pursuing force) is 30 minutes. I'd even consider 1-2 hours, depending on your analysis of vehicle traffic routes, potential choke points, and the time required to collect kids and supplies and then travel to the RP. What is the importance of getting more than 50 miles outside the city that quickly?
The wife likes peroxide, its in her kit not mine. Gloves came to mind today as well for various uses including warmth. Skull caps I didn't think of, and would be a priority in cold weather being that most of your body heat escape through the head. Probably add a few more hefty bags becasue they could be used to keep the feet dry and well as several other uses.
The importance of the 50 miles, once you get out of the city 50 miles South it gets rural and the traffic drops off to a trickle of what it is prior to that. If something bad happened during the week between 10:00 Am to 5:00 PM I would surmise those in the Downtwn area would make a mad dash to get home and there would be a chaotic mess.....which might allow a longer layover at the RP. But the idea is to beat the crowd heading to the Lake of the Ozarks and get further South and to get past any obstruction that could be incurred near Ft. Leonard Wood.
Probably never have the oppourtunity to make use of this, but if I do I will be a 1000 times ahead of most.
I'm curious what the medical professionals think of having peroxide in a FAK. My simple understanding is that it kills not only germs, but also healthy tissue, and thus isn't the best choice for an antimicrobial.
I agree. The goals of wound care are to stop bleeding and promote healing. In my experience Peroxide has limited use here. It does clean up old blood and matted blood/hair nicely. It can be useful in removing blood encrusted dressings that are stuck to the skin. But that virtue is also a clue as to why it isn't recommended for wound care.
Most antiseptics have some toxicity for tissue, e.g. breaking down blood components. Damaging the tissues in a wound creates an environment for secondary infection and slows healing. Peroxide is fairly aggressive stuff. The foaming action--sure looks like it is working--can damage the early fibroblasts and epithelial cells trying to form granulation tissue. Granulation tissue formation is how most open wounds heal.
The most important step in wound care is to clean the wound. Thoroughly. Any foreign material is likely to create an infection. Clean, clean, clean. Irrigation with sterile saline is usually sufficient. Using a syringe may be helpful, but take care not to drive debris into the surrounding tissues with a jet of water. A soft brush or fine sponge can also be helpful in removing large particles of foreign material. Remember though, the goal is to remove contaminants without damaging healthy tissue.
IIRC--it's been a while since I worked in an ER--a 1:10 ratio of 10% Betadine to saline makes a safe and effective irrigation solution for wounds. (This is what is use on myself, my family, and my dogs. We are all alive to attest that it works. ;)) Full strength antiseptic can be used on intact skin, e.g. cleaning skin prior to surgery. I would not pour undiluted Betadine straight into a wound because of its toxic effects. Saline is preferable to water because of the osmotic effects of water, but sometimes you use what you have at hand.
Sorry if I went overboard on this post. In short, I'd recommend a little bottle of Betadine. Leave the peroxide at home.
charlietwo
10-04-2008, 09:53
Aside from individual/familial coordinations for a blowout, have there been any efforts made towards networking those who have prepared themselves? I'm not necessarily suggesting any sort of major formation or community, but perhaps people who are within a certain radius of various regions could have a larger rally point in a defensible, concealed position.
This comment could be outside of the realm of this thread, and if so, I apologize.
Aside from individual/familial coordinations for a blowout, have there been any efforts made towards networking those who have prepared themselves? I'm not necessarily suggesting any sort of major formation or community, but perhaps people who are within a certain radius of various regions could have a larger rally point in a defensible, concealed position.
This comment could be outside of the realm of this thread, and if so, I apologize.
I found some coordination efforts on the ar15.com site awhile back while browsing, but alot of it is from hoarders, barricaders and fort builders, and not anything I would want to participate in.
I could see where you QP guys could make it work because you all have skills to bring to the table, you know how to work as a team, you trust and rely on each other and your like a family.
For civi's like me unless it is close friends and family I would steer clear of it, and even with close friends and family I can see it as being difficult at a best because of the ME culture, lack of skills, lack of resources and their reliance on other sources to provide what they need in life.
Kind of like my wifes sister family of five. 2 Attourneys, 3 kids. If I had 30 days of supplies for my family of 5 and they arrived with the clothes on their back, no food, no water, no gear, no weapons, no usable skills, no nothing.....I wouldn't want to throw them under the bus, but that would put a drain on resources and could put my families chances of survival in jeoprody.
charlietwo
10-04-2008, 12:46
For civi's like me unless it is close friends and family I would steer clear of it, and even with close friends and family I can see it as being difficult at a best because of the ME culture, lack of skills, lack of resources and their reliance on other sources to provide what they need in life.
Kind of like my wifes sister family of five. 2 Attourneys, 3 kids. If I had 30 days of supplies for my family of 5 and they arrived with the clothes on their back, no food, no water, no gear, no weapons, no usable skills, no nothing.....I wouldn't want to throw them under the bus, but that would put a drain on resources and could put my families chances of survival in jeoprody.
Therein lies the troubles... definitely not looking forward to the chaotic times ahead. :(
........Kind of like my wifes sister family of five. 2 Attourneys, 3 kids. If I had 30 days of supplies for my family of 5 and they arrived with the clothes on their back, no food, no water, no gear, no weapons, no usable skills, no nothing.....I wouldn't want to throw them under the bus, but that would put a drain on resources and could put my families chances of survival in jeoprody.
Well somebody has to eat the old rice and Spam stocks.
Well somebody has to eat the old rice and Spam stocks.
That might be food for thought:D
Therein lies the troubles... definitely not looking forward to the chaotic times ahead. :(
You and your kind passed SERE and a whole slew of other preparation to adapt and survive in a mulitude of senarios. I think I can add educators to your list of skills as well.
It is nothing to look forward to, but from my seat you got the world by the balls so to speak.
Anyway.....see anymore holes in my plan?
The Reaper
10-27-2008, 11:35
Winter is coming and it is predicted to be a cold one.
Is everyone prepared for cold, snow, ice, power outages, or whatever inconvenient events that might occur at home, the office, on the road, in the car, etc.?
Vehicles prepped for the winter? Starting problems? Been driving around with a weak battery? Fluids topped off? Good brakes and tires?
Alternate heat sources, food, water, emergency cooking, shelter, etc. available at home?
Do you have everything in your home that you need to get by for a couple of weeks?
The time to address it is now.
TR
Plutarch
11-02-2008, 21:11
I had a minor issue this evening. Not an emergency, but it did make me consider my commo situation.
I was supposed to have dinner with family members this evening when they returned home from a trip. I was doing chores around the house while waiting for their call.
I checked my messages a few times, and they hadn't called. I figured they were still out on the road. As dinner time approached, I went ahead and called them.
That is when I realized that my cell phone isn't working. It has full power, and full bars for reception, but won't make or recieve calls. It just flashes 'calling' and does nothing. When I checked my messages, it would say 'no new messages' as usual.
I don't have a landline, and realized that I had no way to get in touch with my relatives. ( I have a landline phone to contact 911 if need be )
I was able to reach them later via email. They told me that they had left me several messages, and that my rack of ribs was now cold :(
Any ideas how I can better prepare in this area? Pigeons? :D Was commo skipped over? Couldn't find it in the thread, sorry if I missed it.
I had a minor issue this evening. Not an emergency, but it did make me consider my commo situation.
I was supposed to have dinner with family members this evening when they returned home from a trip. I was doing chores around the house while waiting for their call.
I checked my messages a few times, and they hadn't called. I figured they were still out on the road. As dinner time approached, I went ahead and called them.
That is when I realized that my cell phone isn't working. It has full power, and full bars for reception, but won't make or recieve calls. It just flashes 'calling' and does nothing. When I checked my messages, it would say 'no new messages' as usual.
I don't have a landline, and realized that I had no way to get in touch with my relatives. ( I have a landline phone to contact 911 if need be )
I was able to reach them later via email. They told me that they had left me several messages, and that my rack of ribs was now cold :(
Any ideas how I can better prepare in this area? Pigeons? :D Was commo skipped over? Couldn't find it in the thread, sorry if I missed it.
Ever thought of a vontage line?
Cell service is not a 100% guarantee. Did you power down the phone and power it up. Sometimes that will reconnect you with the system. I have that problem sometimes and when I do it I get my MSG in a min or two.
Plutarch
11-02-2008, 23:09
It must be an internal problem with the phone. When I tried to power down, it locked up on the lit up 'powering off, goodbye' screen. I can't turn it off or on now.
Oh well, I can use it a nightlight till the battery dies I guess. Off to the phone store tomorrow. I'll look into the Vonage option also, thank you.
The Reaper
11-03-2008, 08:35
It must be an internal problem with the phone. When I tried to power down, it locked up on the lit up 'powering off, goodbye' screen. I can't turn it off or on now.
Oh well, I can use it a nightlight till the battery dies I guess. Off to the phone store tomorrow. I'll look into the Vonage option also, thank you.
Have you pulled the battery, and let it sit for a few minutes before reinstalling the battery and powering up again?
TR
Plutarch
11-03-2008, 20:00
Yes sir. It went back to appearing operational, but not functioning. Odd. The young man at the Verizon store said they would have to send it off.
Fortunately, I get a free phone every two years, so I took a new phone instead. The old phone will go into the used electronics graveyard box in my closet.
I am also considering the various radio options, as an alternative way of keeping in touch with family in an emergency.
Gentlemen
Iv been looking through the various battery/electronic sites I could find with no luck..
Im looking for a solar battery charger for AA and 123's at a miimum.
Thanks
The Reaper
11-05-2008, 15:48
I picked up a couple of solar panels off ebay.
The truth is that the portable ones do not put out much of a charge.
If you needed a roll up type for portability, they tend to be expensive.
The larger, fixed size could be placed in a home window or a car.
Just do your math on the output.
TR
Originally posted by JoeyB:
Gentlemen
I've been looking through the various battery/electronic sites I could find with no luck..
I'm looking for a solar battery charger for AA and 123's at a minimum.
Thanks
I have an email sent to one of the companies here:
http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?SearchText=+AA+battery+solar+charger&IndexArea=product_en
If I hear back from them with a good supplier contact I will post it. These seem to be a good way to go as well:
http://www.solio.com/charger/
Thanks TR
Ill check Ebay. One for a vehicle would work
Here's my scenario:
Survive in a semi-permissive Alaskan Environment. You will encounter the elements, you may encounter hostile life both two and 4 legged, the 4 legged being better eating anyway. You will be moving as a 2 person team, but should be redundant with regards to the majority of your gear.
My current templated solution to this problem is a 3 layer system.
Vest, either molle or some variant thereof that can fit over armor if necessitated
Assault pack, to augment what the vest can't carry due to size/weight
Vehicle, quickly loaded with duffles/pelicans/containers for ease of loading and expediency.
My intent is to keep the vest to 15 lbs or so if possible, no more than 20. The assault pack/backpack can go further, 55 lbs max preferably to keep some ease of mobility (although intestinal fortitude goes a long way I'm not in the stellar shape I once was, and the wife has to carry the same basic load)
The vest is intended to be able to stand alone by itself for up to 3 days given an abundance of water (tons of good rivers, lakes, etc to resupply from up here) available. Movement with it on should theoretically be limited to 5 km from wherever we set up shop at if we have to use 'the evac plan', the movement will be for gathering supplies for shelter and augmenting our available food with game we take.
My current vest loadout that I've thought up through reading up in various locations, primarily here:
Hk Pistol in holster on right side
In pouches on front of vest
winter nomex gloves
sharpening stone
compass
100$ in 10's
alcohol pens
leatherman
LED flashlight w/ spare batteries
strobe w/ spare batteries
chemlites
GPS w/ spare batteries
Yaesu VS-7 Ham radio (tiny little unit) with rechargable battery and AA battery pack w/ spare AA's
Notepad
Map of templated area of operation
2x Kerlex
4x Emergency Trauma Dressing (isralie)
Betadyne in a unbreakable bottle
NPA x2
Fishing line, monofiliment and salmon line
Hooks for most common types of fish
Lighter
Magnesium bar
Emergency Matches
Cotton balls + Vaseline in film case
Tin Foil
Trioxane bars
Iodine Tablets
6 AR mags
4 HK mags
sewing kit
Sheath knife
back of vest
2 qt w/ cover, empty, 2 bottles of water in pouch with 2 qt for immediate water
Buttpack w/
poncho and liner
6x mainstay ration bars
inside vest or woven into vest
survival blanket
vs17 panel
550 cord
100mph tape
electrical tape
flexcuffs
To explain some of the kit...
Ammunition falls into survival by simple reasoning of Hunting/Gathering plus personal protection. I can drop 3 of the mags and leave an empty pouch for taking the mags out of a pack if it boils down to weight.
The Radio is wideband recieve capable, TV, AM/FM, CB, Shortwave. It'll transmit on most frequencies, HAM bands (144/220/440) best however. Most Ham repeaters and hams period strive to make their commo gear standalone and work off the grid, all the repeaters in the area are grid tied in but have battery/solar backups and some are straight off-the-grid and have been for some time. Either way it's S/A and can be augmented as necessary by charging off the vehicle (our vehicle is getting double 12v charging panels for the roof to ensure milimal electrical power)
Obviously the navigation gear is a good survival thing to have, and I have the means and time to select an area I know I can get to and be able to be far enough away that we'll be by ourselves but not be too far if things are not that bad after all.
First aid gear is minimal, we have a larger box for the vehicle that carries a good medbag's worth of gear.
The mainstay rations aren't something you'd want to live on for an extended period but they are good enough for 3 days, small, light, and no cooking required. 1200 calories per.
Flexcuffs, 550, tape, all good for tying together stuff for a shelter or repairs to various things that are necessitated.
Strobe, chemlites, vs17, flashlight... signaling, maneuvering, marking and also use as part of a shelter if it's an emergency but it's not a hide from people type emergency. Definately easier to find a hooch in the woods if it has a VS17 panel as part of the roof, it'll get a SAR bird to take a closer look at least.
Firestarting.. I have a bunch of stuff in here for it specifically since the vest itself wouldn't exactly be enough to survive in 0 degree weather. The poncho and liner would augment already-worn clothing though. I might look into one of the thinsulate warmer poncho liners, or see if 2 could be crammed into the pouch.
I would appreciate a critique of what I currently have templated for contents of the vests, I'll figure out then post up the packs and vehicular gear as I decide what's best for what I have to work with in this area.
The Reaper
11-17-2008, 08:08
Here's my scenario:
Survive in a semi-permissive Alaskan Environment. You will encounter the elements, you may encounter hostile life both two and 4 legged, the 4 legged being better eating anyway. You will be moving as a 2 person team, but should be redundant with regards to the majority of your gear....
Why are you on the run, where are you headed, and what do you plan to do when you get there? To evaluate your equipment would require more info for a good mission analysis.
I would say that a lot of your needs would be seasonal. An insect headnet will be of limited value in the winter, but might be very nice to have in the summer there.
A strobe is good if friendlies are looking for you at night by air, otherwise, I do not see why you would want to hump one.
What threat would necessitate wearing body armor, and taking on the additional weight of an item of very limited value for wilderness survival?
You seem to be pretty well armed for two-legged engagements, but not so much for large predators. Are you out to survive, or to run and gun?
Not trying to be nosy, but your layout seems odd for a survival scenario. Probably about right if you are on the run from the law.
Just a few casual obervations to start off with.
TR
On the run from/dealing with (choose one or more):
Natural Disaster
breakdown of society
Broken down vehicle while off the road system
Democratic Party Rights Impingement
The desire to be able to fit it over body armor is for issue #2 & #4 :eek: but upon safe arrival at our chosen area of relocation up here, it'd be dropped in the vehicle since there really wouldn't be much but moose, caribou, and black/griz bear out in that area. So, it'd just have to 'work', not be perfect and expected for long duration utilization.
Regardless of the occassion, my intent is to move about 100-200 miles to one of our selected relocation sites and basically hooch up there until things blow over, whatever they are.
I've picked out a few areas that are relatively easy to get to with my current vehicle, reasonably close to water, and would have minimal effects from ashfall, no effects from tsunamis, and would be significantly better to be at if there was any manmade disasters in the region. They're also nice to camp at :)
With regards to the gear,
It does look like it's a run-and-gun setup, but that's because of the gear we have typically stashed in our vehicles due to my line of work. Besides, .223 isn't exactly a spectacular round for putting down large game although it's legal to do so considering it IS a centerfire rifle cartridge...
I might relegate more ammunition to the pack or the vehicles. When I actually start filling the vests up with gear the only major concern will be items of utility and the pistol ammo. If the vests weigh 15 lbs or so after all the gear, not including pistol itself, then I'll just put pouches on there for mags just in case and keep them elsewhere. I am also willing to drop to 2 spare mags for pistol if it is required... remember I was 11B, I'm used to ammunition always being a friend :lifter
A headnet will be more of a seasonal item and will end up being tossed in the backpack since bi-annually we'd be checking gear and swapping out stuff in the backpacks for more specialized summer/winter gear. I do like the headnet idea though, because a headnet doesn't run out, leak, or go dry like bug juice... or smell.
Although there's more law enforcement aircraft up here, than in any other state, you might be right with regards to the strobe. Probably will be a vehicle pack item more than an individual kit item.
I appreciate the help, I would like to get the loadout right before I go out and start buying stuff.
No cooking pot or canteen cup?
Large plastic lawn leaf bag? Don't take up diddily for space or weight but has a great number of uses - mostly in the rain.
Diablo Blanco
11-17-2008, 11:36
Gentlemen
Iv been looking through the various battery/electronic sites I could find with no luck..
Im looking for a solar battery charger for AA and 123's at a miimum.
Thanks
JoeyB I had this same search last year as I was hoping to save a ton of money on rechargeable 123's for my surefire, etc. Truth is the rechargeable 123s don't have the amps for lighting use. If you are using them for electronics be sure the 'mah' are within range before you purchase a system/solution
Diablo Blanco
11-17-2008, 12:00
TF Kilo
Things I would lose completely from your list
* alcohol pens (how do these extend your survivability?)
* strobe light (most LED flash lights, headlamps have a strobe function now)
Things I would substitute
* vs17 panel and survival blanket for a couple of heatsheets
* flexcuffs (if you take a prisoner, you have to take care of them) for zip ties of various sizes, for fixin stuff. Plus if you ABSOLUTELY need to take a prisoner you still have zip ties
* sharpening stone for a Redi Edge dog tag sized sharpener
* 100$ in 10's for $200 in 10's, 5's, 1's and 50 cent and 1 dollar coins
* iodine tablets for Katadyn MicroPur tablets
What I would add
* a bit more food, what if your vehicle breaks down and you need to walk. Calculate your daily caloric requirements while walking the distance and add that plus 30% to your kit.
* a MIOX purifier (thanks TR) worth more than it's weight in gold. Read the instructions and practice with it before you need it.
* super glue and JB Weld - to complete your tool box
* an AMK ultralight .3 or .5 medical kit. They're small enough to not bother you on your vest
* an AMK DR Survival kit (about $30) can easily fit in your pocket should you need to leave your vest
* soap of some kind, little squeeze bottle
A vest I would suggest: The Camelbak Delta V for your kit. It has molle/pals webbing. A bladder, adjustable height and 4 inside pocket/pouches (2 with velcro 2 with zippers) to hold all your smaller items.
The Reaper
11-17-2008, 12:17
Here's my scenario:
Survive in a semi-permissive Alaskan Environment. You will encounter the elements, you may encounter hostile life both two and 4 legged, the 4 legged being better eating anyway. You will be moving as a 2 person team, but should be redundant with regards to the majority of your gear.
My current templated solution to this problem is a 3 layer system.
Vest, either molle or some variant thereof that can fit over armor if necessitated
Assault pack, to augment what the vest can't carry due to size/weight
Vehicle, quickly loaded with duffles/pelicans/containers for ease of loading and expediency.
My intent is to keep the vest to 15 lbs or so if possible, no more than 20. The assault pack/backpack can go further, 55 lbs max preferably to keep some ease of mobility (although intestinal fortitude goes a long way I'm not in the stellar shape I once was, and the wife has to carry the same basic load)
The vest is intended to be able to stand alone by itself for up to 3 days given an abundance of water (tons of good rivers, lakes, etc to resupply from up here) available. Movement with it on should theoretically be limited to 5 km from wherever we set up shop at if we have to use 'the evac plan', the movement will be for gathering supplies for shelter and augmenting our available food with game we take.
My current vest loadout that I've thought up through reading up in various locations, primarily here:
Hk Pistol in holster on right side
In pouches on front of vest
winter nomex gloves
sharpening stone
compass
100$ in 10's
alcohol pens
leatherman
LED flashlight w/ spare batteries
strobe w/ spare batteries
chemlites
GPS w/ spare batteries
Yaesu VS-7 Ham radio (tiny little unit) with rechargable battery and AA battery pack w/ spare AA's
Notepad
Map of templated area of operation
2x Kerlex
4x Emergency Trauma Dressing (isralie)
Betadyne in a unbreakable bottle
NPA x2
Fishing line, monofiliment and salmon line
Hooks for most common types of fish
Lighter
Magnesium bar
Emergency Matches
Cotton balls + Vaseline in film case
Tin Foil
Trioxane bars
Iodine Tablets
6 AR mags
4 HK mags
sewing kit
Sheath knife
back of vest
2 qt w/ cover, empty, 2 bottles of water in pouch with 2 qt for immediate water
Buttpack w/
poncho and liner
6x mainstay ration bars
inside vest or woven into vest
survival blanket
vs17 panel
550 cord
100mph tape
electrical tape
flexcuffs
To explain some of the kit...
Ammunition falls into survival by simple reasoning of Hunting/Gathering plus personal protection. I can drop 3 of the mags and leave an empty pouch for taking the mags out of a pack if it boils down to weight.
The Radio is wideband recieve capable, TV, AM/FM, CB, Shortwave. It'll transmit on most frequencies, HAM bands (144/220/440) best however. Most Ham repeaters and hams period strive to make their commo gear standalone and work off the grid, all the repeaters in the area are grid tied in but have battery/solar backups and some are straight off-the-grid and have been for some time. Either way it's S/A and can be augmented as necessary by charging off the vehicle (our vehicle is getting double 12v charging panels for the roof to ensure milimal electrical power)
Obviously the navigation gear is a good survival thing to have, and I have the means and time to select an area I know I can get to and be able to be far enough away that we'll be by ourselves but not be too far if things are not that bad after all.
First aid gear is minimal, we have a larger box for the vehicle that carries a good medbag's worth of gear.
The mainstay rations aren't something you'd want to live on for an extended period but they are good enough for 3 days, small, light, and no cooking required. 1200 calories per.
Flexcuffs, 550, tape, all good for tying together stuff for a shelter or repairs to various things that are necessitated.
Strobe, chemlites, vs17, flashlight... signaling, maneuvering, marking and also use as part of a shelter if it's an emergency but it's not a hide from people type emergency. Definately easier to find a hooch in the woods if it has a VS17 panel as part of the roof, it'll get a SAR bird to take a closer look at least.
Firestarting.. I have a bunch of stuff in here for it specifically since the vest itself wouldn't exactly be enough to survive in 0 degree weather. The poncho and liner would augment already-worn clothing though. I might look into one of the thinsulate warmer poncho liners, or see if 2 could be crammed into the pouch.
I would appreciate a critique of what I currently have templated for contents of the vests, I'll figure out then post up the packs and vehicular gear as I decide what's best for what I have to work with in this area.
It looks to me like you are trying to operate tactically and below the radar till you want to be picked up, then go active and be rescued (or at least have that capability).
What do you estimate the odds to be of you implementing this plan?
What will the lead time for implementation of this be? Do you forsee needing to move out in an hour or less, or do you anticipate having a few days?
What are you looking to buy or add that you do not have on hand and in stock right now?
Your analysis seems to be light on planning and logic, but maybe you have done due diligence without articulating it to my understanding. It does look, at least to my initial opinion, like a gear collection rather than an integrated list supporting a plan.
I have never been to Wasila, but I would imagine that once you leave the city limits, you are not likely to encounter anyone else on your 100-200 mile trek to your retreat destination. OTOH, I would imagine the odds of an encounter with large game or predators to be significantly higher. For that reason, since there are two people packing the gear and hardware, I would consider dropping one of the M-4s for either a 12 gauge shotgun with slugs, a heavy lever action rifle like a .45-70, or a heavy bolt action rifle (.308 or larger). If you are attacked by anyone, they are most likely to be in pistol range, the second M-4 seems to me to be overkill, unless you are being pursued by a platoon or a zombie army.
Vehicle mobility is going to be key, I would focus on making sure that I had plenty of fuel and self-extraction capability at all times. The goal is to get to the retreat, not to dig in and play Alamo with the living dead while en route. You should be able to avoid most situations before you get into them. Remember that you never have to run from a fight if you start walking away soon enough. You need to arrive at your ENDEX time line with sufficient fuel and vehicle mobility to drive back to civilization as well, unless you plan on rucking home.
Secondary to vehicle mobility is foot mobility. I would say that in your location, cross-country skis or snowshoes may be a necessity. You will need to be sure that you have good boots available at all times as well and maintain yourselves in top physical condition.
Next is going to be shelter. Hopefully, there is some sort of stocked cabin or facility at your destination, For the movement phase, if your vehicle becomes immobilized, and you have to hoof it, you are going to be spending some nights out in the boonies in what could be a pretty inhospitable area, depending on METT-TC. That will require a tent and some good bags, not a space blanket or woobie.
Fire is normally included in shelter, but if you are worried about pursuers, you may not want to be lighting up any large blazes. You seem to have covered several alternative firemaking methods, that is good. Hope there is ample combustible fuel when you need it. I would feel better with a good multi-fuel cooking stove.
If you are planning on building field expedient shelters or harvesting large game, a small axe would be pretty close to a necessity, and a folding saw would be handy as well.
You are looking at several days of hard rucking, possibly on skis or snowshoes to move 100-200 miles on foot, possibly as much as 2 weeks, even if the weather is clear throughout the period for daylight movement. 3600 calories each is not going to be enough, especially if you are hoofing it. You should develop a feeding plan with a couple of weeks of freeze dried rations and cooking gear. That way, if you can supplement your rations with wild game, you can at least prepare it in some manner other than roasting everything. Baked fish, for the 10th day, is probably going to get old.
There are a number of other equipment issues, but I would say that you are prepared, if you are going to move during the few months when the weather is warm and conditions are optimal. In general, I think you are thinking too much like a soldier and not enough like a camper or Boy Scout. As I am sure you are aware, the weather and terrain can kill you as thoroughly as an enemy with a weapon.
Hope that addresses some of your questions, best of luck.
TR
TR,
I'm not sure if and or when any of this kit will get used. Either way, it'll be with us when we go camping and just as a pseudo-challenge I intend and my wife concurs that we should do a 3 nighter out in the woods once we have the vests set up, just to see what we end up thinking we're missing or could have used.
If it's an hour of lead-time, then it's going to be grab what you can in 15 minutes and start frigging moving. If it's longer then we obviously can prepare more and/or get the kitchen sink unbolted to put into the vehicle.
There's 3 directions you can go as far as getting away from wasilla, and one is out because it heads straight to anchorage... so that leaves 2 highways. Pretty crappy for any sort of a tactical egress but its what I have to work with. At some point along the road we execute a left or right face and start offroading with the blazer. Lifted CUCV with Hmmwv runflat 37's and a winch.
Our standard offroad *out for fun* package for a weekend trip includes over 1 weeks worth of FRESH food, and 2 weeks worth of dehydrated food, and enough tools to fix/recover/pioneer our way to safety. We have a water purification system onboard that requires little to no maintanance and can use any available water source other than salt water. Comms, tools etc etc.
Distance off road as well as away from people depends on lead time, the blazer always has a full tank and we have a rack for the hitch that fits 8 5 gallon cans if we have time to fill them. That's quite some distance even with that rig.
Once we're comfortably off the road, we'll stop and hole up at or nearby the vehicle, depending on the reason for being out there. If the vehicle breaks down or becomes unrecoverable, that's where the pens and alcohol markers come in because the vehicles location becomes a cache point if we're out there for an indeterminate period. The last thing I need to have happen because I have a crap memory, is forget where my gear is! it's not like I *can't* mark on the map, because if it's so bad that people have been able to secure that map then I won't have need of it anymore anyway.
The reason I've gone with m-4 stuff is because there's a m-4 in both of my primary vehicles because of work. We've got other armament that with proper lead time would definately be coming along, but an AR will work in a pinch for most anything you can eat here... just might need to dump a couple more rounds in it :P
The areas we've been to and have agreed that are good locations have an abundance of combustable material year round so fire won't be a problem past burning it, and they're piddly trees anyway that wouldn't be a problem for a small pack axe... but once again, I'm still working the 3 day problem that the vest is specifically being planned for.
The pack's jury is still out and I haven't come up with a packing list for that yet. Snowshoes are part of winter gear...It'll definately address some of the issues brought up like cooking pot, tent/sleep systems, etc.
Obviously, if we can't drive out then we hole up at the house... that's a whole different ballgame but we have all the evacuation gear already to augment the rest of the stuff we have at the house already.
Diablo Blanco, not to be a smart&$^% but you do realize that flexcuffs are just big, strong, zipties, right?
Any thought on a sled for hauling gear? You'll be able to use the rivers (frozen) to move longer distances with little vertical change.
Just a suggestion - you may want to go visit some "off-roaders" (for those who don't know "off road" in AK is where one doesn't have any access to the house except for snow machine in the winter or float plane in the summer - of course foot is the third option). They have great long term planning (sometimes 2 months between resupply during break-up). They also have some of the best redneck engineering that you'll see. Sometimes the indig have the best handle on what is best to have handy. I've spent a lot of time around Willow just up the Parks Hwy from you and there's lots of the off road types up there.
You may also do some testing with snow shelters before you go out - can save your ass when you're out in the bush.
The Reaper
11-17-2008, 13:37
Any thought on a sled for hauling gear? You'll be able to use the rivers (frozen) to move longer distances with little vertical change.
Just a suggestion - you may want to go visit some "off-roaders" (for those who don't know "off road" in AK is where one doesn't have any access to the house except for snow machine in the winter or float plane in the summer - of course foot is the third option). They have great long term planning (sometimes 2 months between resupply during break-up). They also have some of the best redneck engineering that you'll see. Sometimes the indig have the best handle on what is best to have handy. I've spent a lot of time around Willow just up the Parks Hwy from you and there's lots of the off road types up there.
You may also do some testing with snow shelters before you go out - can save your ass when you're out in the bush.
I was thinking the same thing, drive to the end of the road, and then hit the trail with a snow machine and akhio.
I suspect that it depends on the distance, not sure what the range is for the snow machines.
TR
What do you estimate the odds to be of you implementing this plan?
I'm still uncertain what circumstances would drive you to implement this plan.
What natural disaster would compel you to leave your town (where I presume there is some level of assistance, food, water, medical...)? Do you expect society in Wasilla to deteriorate to the point you would feel safer on the move than staying put? Under what circumstances would that happen? What is the estimated risk level that this would occur? Implementing your plan sounds like it would require you to quit your job, perhaps at short notice. Is that an option?
A vehicel breakdown is it's own kind of problem, but you sound well prepared for dealing with that eventuality.
Most touring machines get around 10-15mpg depending on how hard you ride them and have a 12-15gal tank. Go conservative and say 120 mi..
I've gone out to help resupply some friends and pulled 5 propane tanks (100lb ea) with little problems.
These are a couple pics while on the trail - Ron (the guy in the winter camo) makes runs to supply the people around the area. You can see the trailer sleds that we hauled the tanks on and there's a photo of a house the owner. Notice the Natural Ice... :D
I have never been to Wasila, but I would imagine that once you leave the city limits, you are not likely to encounter anyone else on your 100-200 mile trek to your retreat destination. OTOH, I would imagine the odds of an encounter with large game or predators to be significantly higher. For that reason, since there are two people packing the gear and hardware, I would consider dropping one of the M-4s for either a 12 gauge shotgun with slugs, a heavy lever action rifle like a .45-70, or a heavy bolt action rifle (.308 or larger). If you are attacked by anyone, they are most likely to be in pistol range, the second M-4 seems to me to be overkill, unless you are being pursued by a platoon or a zombie army.
My primary hunting rifle is a Puma 92 (lever action), chambered in 454 Casull. It'd be going with us. Just need a sling put on it.
Secondary to vehicle mobility is foot mobility. I would say that in your location, cross-country skis or snowshoes may be a necessity. You will need to be sure that you have good boots available at all times as well and maintain yourselves in top physical condition.
Next is going to be shelter. Hopefully, there is some sort of stocked cabin or facility at your destination, For the movement phase, if your vehicle becomes immobilized, and you have to hoof it, you are going to be spending some nights out in the boonies in what could be a pretty inhospitable area, depending on METT-TC. That will require a tent and some good bags, not a space blanket or woobie.
Fire is normally included in shelter, but if you are worried about pursuers, you may not want to be lighting up any large blazes. You seem to have covered several alternative firemaking methods, that is good. Hope there is ample combustible fuel when you need it. I would feel better with a good multi-fuel cooking stove.
If you are planning on building field expedient shelters or harvesting large game, a small axe would be pretty close to a necessity, and a folding saw would be handy as well.
You are looking at several days of hard rucking, possibly on skis or snowshoes to move 100-200 miles on foot, possibly as much as 2 weeks, even if the weather is clear throughout the period for daylight movement. 3600 calories each is not going to be enough, especially if you are hoofing it. You should develop a feeding plan with a couple of weeks of freeze dried rations and cooking gear. That way, if you can supplement your rations with wild game, you can at least prepare it in some manner other than roasting everything. Baked fish, for the 10th day, is probably going to get old.
There are a number of other equipment issues, but I would say that you are prepared, if you are going to move during the few months when the weather is warm and conditions are optimal. In general, I think you are thinking too much like a soldier and not enough like a camper or Boy Scout. As I am sure you are aware, the weather and terrain can kill you as thoroughly as an enemy with a weapon.
Hope that addresses some of your questions, best of luck.
TR
Some of what you bring up here is on the packing lists for the rucks, like snow shoes, tents, sleeping bags, things for digging in more. The vests would be bare minimum to survive, rucks for living/thriving.
Up here, we have earthquakes everyday, volcanoes that have spread ash and such on Anchorage, missile defense sites (if the world got to poo), and tsunamis have hit here. We live on a road about 10 miles from a sea inlet. Lots of things can go wrong, and we'd like to be prepared. It's not like the lower 48, we can be cut off easily from help. Most services besides police here are volunteer. Police where we live are State Troopers only, local city does not respond out here.
There is already discourse being heard/felt up here from what the incoming President has said will happen in new policy. People hunt to survive here, tax ammo 300-500% and take away guns won't go over well. I/we hope to never have to use a bug out kit, but better to be prepared than not. If it comes to the point of leaving our house, jobs don't matter, as Anchorage has gone to shit.
I'm sure my husband will add more, but I hope that gives you more of an idea of what we are looking at/for.
frostfire
11-18-2008, 22:49
Have you pulled the battery, and let it sit for a few minutes before reinstalling the battery and powering up again?
TR
speaking of battery, how does everyone here store equipment that uses battery?
I found that if I don't fully close the latch of the equipment (break the contact point) the battery lasts much longer. I figure it makes sense since if the circuit is closed, at least a small amount of energy is drained out of the battery as heat. Same principle as why new voice recorder or watch come with a plastic layer that cover the battery's contact point.
For equipment requiring immediate use when needed or requiring the battery to keep setting, this won't be applicable of course.
Always wanted to ask the questions but felt I was just being a cheap *******
Diablo Blanco
12-19-2008, 14:19
TF Kilo,
when I said "for zip ties of various sizes" I meant "or zip ties of various sizes". Yes... I know flex cuffs are just big zip ties... We used to use prusik cuffs made from 550 cord when zip ties or flex cuffs weren't readily available.
On other notes. I've gone back through my Go Bag and modularized it, seperating it into three levels of need. I have several locations within 300 miles that have all the large things so my bag is basically JUST a get me there bag. It serves me a lot better now. All my vehicles have food and water, plus the environment has its own offerings.
I always have a DR photon and a tool/knife with me. I don't consider this a level, it's part of my body.
My basic level 1 is a DR pocket survival pak w/ a few additions, a heat sheet, AMK ultralight medical kit, water container (platypus 1 liter bag). This one is for basic daily jaunts within 15 miles of my CP.
Level 2 adds a poncho, Katadyn filtration bottle squeeze bottle (I REALLY like the ease of this one) and a molle canteen pouch that will hold level 1 plus extras like a headlamp, sunblock (I burn)and chapstick, little bit of trail food, bandana, magnesium/bic, dogtag sized knife sharpener, flat sponge, small survival ref card, 20ft 550 cord. This one is for little trips that would take me 1-3 days to walk back from.
Level 3 is a small pack and adds wet weather gear, poncho liner, cas blanket (or thermolite 2.0 bivy), Survival Tabs (mmm tasty), electrolyte replacement and more bits of trail food, camelbak, MIOX, GPS, compass (button compass was already in level 1), larger FAK, 50ft 550 cord, all weather notebook and space pen, larger knife on shoulder strap, cold weather clothing (cap, gatorneck, snowboarder's face mask, gloves, ninja jammies), socks, microfiber towel (compact), hammock (net or solid), cotton balls soaked in vaseline and crammed into a 35mm fillm can, sewing kit, spork
If I'm intentionally going somewhere out of town and want to save on a hotel I'll camp at a KOA. Doing that I bring tent, sleeping bag, pad, pie pan, snow peak stove and mess kit and a good selection of food (mostly dehydrated/freeze dried), folding spatula (don't laugh)
Being a thread called "Be Prepared" I'd like to introduce the Urban Survival Kit. It has nothing to do with combat, but can be a saver of sorts.
USK Level 1 is a mini hygiene kit (after making this I liked it so much I use this one now when traveling) it's ultra small and fits in one of those Spec-Ops Mini Cargo Organizers http://tinyurl.com/4eaorg . It contains shortened toothbrush, small tube of toothpaste, chapstick, small bottle of hand sanitizer, kleenex moist wipes pocket pack, a small bottle of Campsuds, 1 Quattro razor, a small bottle of shaving oil [TRY IT! You'll stop using foam (http://tinyurl.com/4onc4s)], Optional: Small bottle of mouthwash (non alcohol), small bottle of lotion (I'm always running into ladies that need some), stain remover pen, nptepad and pen, condoms
USK Level 2 is a microfiber towel, washcloth, simply change of clothes, travel charger.
USK Level 3 is for longer trips. It adds travel packs of detergent, flat universal sink stopper, braided rubber clothesline, and inflatable hangars (don't laugh clothes dry out quicker), extra socks, extra drawers, a change of clothes, rubber door stopper, sewing kit, notebook and pen, fabric bucket.
Every level of the USK can fit into a small backpack/bag. Just throw it into the vehicle and its there if you need it.
Conrad Y
12-19-2008, 21:46
I just found this thread. Great topic.
I have much reading to catch up with the current subject matter.
This thread should be archived when it pans out.
Beerhunter
12-19-2008, 22:27
Just speed reading through the original post and comments all I can say is: WOW!. Some heavy duty stuff, give me a few days to digest it.
I do have some boots-in-flood-zone experience in a few natural disasters from a police perspective.
Keep this thread going, I owe you some war stories.
Beerhunter
01-02-2009, 22:51
Well gents, I've been through Ike (ground zero), Rita (near miss), Katrina (human fallout), Allison (flood zone), and Alicia (ground zero); so most all of my wet sneakers experience has been water related destruction in the Houston, Texas, Gulf Coast AO. Some OPS as public safety guy, some as a merely a victim.
Bullet comments:
-Emergency Management doesn't.
Just like the tired old MI joke, those words can be mutually exclusive.
OEM is now it's own civilian career field; ie FEMA!.
Civilian Emergency Ops would be best served by the military (yes, the Nat'l Guard). They really do have their Sh!t together.
- Most civilian government agencies use their "troops" as cannon fodder
(see above)
- People Suck
If you don't feed the animals, they will hunt. Katrina had a few urban
legends, however, I was in the the Astro Dome Human Recovery effort.
There were two looks that we got (we were in full sheriff's uniform) from
those folks:
the look of relief from the sheep, and the look of intimidation from the
predators. We seriously fucked up and didn't ID the jackals, now they live
amongst us..
- People are Good
There isn't enough room on this forum to tell you all the all the stories
of of good will that people will do for their fellow man.
- Post Incident
No matter what the natural or man-made disaster is, the post-incident,
human reaction will be the biggest problem and the most
dangerous. The government response to the recovery will be the deciding
factor as to how the population reacts. If the government reacts stupid,
the people will react stupid.
PSYOP
- Say something stupid on TV, and the people will do something stupid.
I watched a million folks tried to evacuate Houston on a freeway that
is packed on a normal day at 4:00 everyday during rush hour.
Don't follow stupid people.
Has anybody here heard of SSG Don Paul U.S. Army Special Forces (retired)? He wrote a few books on survival supposedly on the principles of an individual and as an "A-Team". Don't know much more about him other than he almost died back in January of 1976 during an A-team nighdrop into Panama. Both chutes didn't deploy properly and he bounced really hard (his phraseology).
I just want to know if anybody hear has read his books and/or knows of him personally?
It would appear he wrote 8 books on survival, the compass, pistols and rifles.
I must say I have yet to read any of them. Didn't even know they were printed.
Peregrino
01-03-2009, 14:45
Don't know him; however, they are still selling some of the books at the Bragg MCSS.
Peregrino,
Does that fact mean he writes a good/great survival book?
Peregrino
01-03-2009, 18:13
I guess they're OK. I glanced through them years ago, didn't see anything I thought was worth the money so I didn't buy them. YMMV, FWIW I've been doing "outdoor activities" since Boy Scouts (+/- 40 years) and nowdays rarely find anything in books on outdoor skills worth paying for.
Monsoon65
01-08-2009, 20:27
I posted this on the "What are you reading" thread.
My wife got me this book for Christmas:
"When hell breaks loose" by Cody Lundin
It has tons of info on water storage and purifications, food storage, shelter, you name it. Very good info and written for the average joe to understand and use.
Since ethanol blends have become common, it can lead to fuel system problems (and top-end failures) in small engine equipment.
If one has ever left fuel too long in their mower/whacker/blower/saw etc, they likely know what I am getting at. The stuff magically changes from Dom Perignon to Boone's Farm (or worse.) The simplest "fix" is preventative: When you are done with the tool, drain the tank, start the engine, and let it idle itself to sleep. Don't rev the wee out of 2-stroke engines while doing this, as there is a risk of a lean-seizure, followed up with an unhappy trip to the New Piston store.
For stuff that sees routine use, mixing high-octane pump fuel with a good oil is all one needs to do... with that, I'd advise keeping it around for maybe 90 days MAX. Stihl Ultra synthetic mix-oil has stabilizer in it, but adding a dose of Sta-Bil (or eqivalent) can't hurt. Once I hit about 60 days, that junk gets dumped in the tank of one of our vehicles, and goes away. OTOH I only mix up a gallon or two at a time, unless I have a bunch of noise to make.
That doesn't help folks who rarely use their loud toys, or rely on a cache for use at some future date...
One solution is a product called 50fuel... it's a non-ethanol fuel, pre-mixed with synthetic oil at either 40:1 or 50:1. It is packaged in 1qt. cans, and should last a long time if unopened. Perfect for a reserve stash, but has a high cost. A similar product (Aspen) is sold in Europe. Even being pre-mixed with oil, it shouldn't cause any problems if run through 4-stroke equipment, such as a generator, mower, vehicle etc...
Another solution is 100LL "AVGAS" available at your local airport. This also has a long shelf life in a sealed container. One pilot guy on another board mentions using 9 year old avgas in a DC3, however the fuel was in sealed drums, and stored in a (very) cool/dry place. The drawbacks to 100LL are few: Availability - your local FBO may be reluctant to sell if you haven't got a plane out there looking thirsty. Moore County International is cool with small can sales though. Cost is an issue... it's roughly twice or more what pump high-octane sells for... Disposal is also an issue. Even with it's longer life, there may come a day when one decides it's not worth risking. Dumping this junk in the tank of momma's car "could" lead to a plugged catalytic converter. A quart or so in a full 15gl. tank, once in a blue moon, probably no worries, but it can and will lead to cat issues if one kept it up.
<Edit>: Some newer small engines come with catalytic converters... Husqvarna stuff has a green fuel cap that gives this away (also the mufflers are stamped "CAT'). Leaded fuel will not be good for the cat-mufflers on these...
Race fuel is another higher cost solution, and it's available in leaded or unleaded at various blends for different intended uses. It also has a high cost, and limited availability like 100LL.
A higher octane rating isn't really the savior here (unless one has done some things to the engine... raised compression ratio, changed timing events etc that requires it) More octane isn't better... Longer stability/useful life is.
The 'canned fuel' or 'expensive designer blends' seems like the best bet if a long shelf life is required... getting my head around really expensive fuel isn't easy or painless, but that's what it is. As I mentioned above, all my loud junk gets 92-93 octane pump unleaded, and premium-grade mix oil... but I date it, and feed it to the pigs once it clocks 60 days.
jasonglh
02-02-2009, 01:50
Just wanted to drop a quick thank you note here. My wife and I have been following this thread from the get go and have used it to guide our emergency plans. Looks like it will be 3-4 weeks here until power is restored but we have even opened any of our strategic reserves yet. I am keeping a notebook of what worked well for us and what did not. We did get water service returned somewhat but it is still undrinkable.
This thread has been a great assest when I can access it with my iPhone!
I am keeping a notebook of what worked well for us and what did not.
Jason
Luck to you & the Family,, and your neighbors..
Stay warm..
Let's see an after action report, with lessons learned,, when it's over..
:D:lifter:D:lifter
Peregrino
02-10-2009, 20:54
How's this for cool: http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=255? And it's from one of our favorite businesses too!
I never knew what 'Dillo' powder was until last week. I think I get a can of seeds on my next order.
Yes Jason stay warm. I have walked that area when I was at Campbell. Hope is all going in the right direction.
Also would like to hear a AAR when it gets all done,
AL
Just a guy with a radio.. and a very sharp knife... :munchin
I found the following manual to be very helpful:
http://www.green-trust.org/freebooks/Preparedness.pdf
I have seen most of those articles elsewhere but to have them in one book with an index is nice. The section on food storage is first rate, especially the bare-minimum requirements recommended from the church.
The manual is 220 pages, I found it helpful to find a printer that could print both sides of the page and two pages per side. It kept the paper to a manageable level.
doctom54
02-12-2009, 22:42
Has anybody here heard of SSG Don Paul U.S. Army Special Forces (retired)? He wrote a few books on survival supposedly on the principles of an individual and as an "A-Team". Don't know much more about him other than he almost died back in January of 1976 during an A-team nighdrop into Panama. Both chutes didn't deploy properly and he bounced really hard (his phraseology).
I just want to know if anybody hear has read his books and/or knows of him personally?
I met him at Hickam AFB about 1990. He is an interesting person to talk with. Always thinking, just a little different from the average person.
I have a copy of "Everybody's Knife Bible" somewhere. It is the only book of his I have read. For someone with NO training it would be ok.
JihadJilson
02-13-2009, 16:01
TR,
As I said the other day, Great thread!, I really do enjoy it. Now I confess to not have read it all yet, so some of what I'm about to say may have already been covered. I apologize for double-tapping if it has. My personal thought process has always been to use the same silly acronyms and cliches the army has instilled the first being:
Shoot, Move and Communicate. I figure these have always covered a lot of the basics in the past, no sense in deviating from them. But you have to break it down. You have to think about how you are going to be able to accomplish those 3 simple task if you can't go to the store and buy the required items to do so.
Next is taking these 3 and applying them to the next 3 factors: Static (base defense), Mounted and Dismounted. Can you cover the SM&C in each aspect, granted if your static your not moving, got it.
After this I think of the 10 Classes of Supply and what of these I would need and how I would/could procur them in a crisis situation, what I need prior to a crisis situation to procur them, and what I need to stockpile/save for a rainy day.
And even though I put this last it should always be thought of in the initial stages is METT-T. As corny as it may sound, it is very useful.
I try to think of these and how they would relate to a crisis situation and what steps I need to take prior to that situation to increase my and my dependants survivability.
Yes I left out EPA, sorry. where to go when the decision point has been made to go there, and what to take.
What I haven't seen on these post yet but wouldn't be surprised is the expectation of whats going to happen if the economy fails. We as a nation are a service based economy. Now I truly don't think the US will collapse and we will be reduced to banding together in small like-minded communities to survive. But I almost wish that would happen versus what I truly fear will happen, and that is we will continue to see a growth in Government both in manpower and control until we do end up as a Socialist nation. The new President on his speach the other night (Tues ?) began with "Only the Government can fix this crisis the country is in" To me that seems as a intro for a bigger, more controlling Federal Government. Just my .02 cents worth. Anyway as I stated in the beginning, love the thread. Keep up the good work.
ZooKeeper
02-13-2009, 18:31
I found the following manual to be very helpful:
http://www.green-trust.org/freebooks/Preparedness.pdf
I have seen most of those articles elsewhere but to have them in one book with an index is nice. The section on food storage is first rate, especially the bare-minimum requirements recommended from the church.
The manual is 220 pages, I found it helpful to find a printer that could print both sides of the page and two pages per side. It kept the paper to a manageable level.
chipw - nice work. I haven't read the whole thing, but scanned it enough to see this is a great piece of work. I know what I will be reading this coming week. Thanks for posting.
JihadJilson,
I believe then that the currency of the future will be the bullet.
jasonglh
03-07-2009, 22:56
During the Kentucky ice storm we went without power for 13 days. I just got my cable restored last week but have been quite busy.
I had a decent stockpile or so I thought but really did not have to dig very deep. I had a 5k watt Coleman powermate generator that is about 10 years old with very few hours on the motor. On the 2nd day the dry rotted gasket on the fuel cap got sucked into the carb and when I went to remove the fuel bowl sheared off the brass bolt/jet combo. It was a Tecumseh motor so I had no spare parts for. The next day we finished cutting trees down our road with the neighbors to get out and was able to secure a new part.
I have since bought a 2nd Generator with a Briggs and Stratton motor. I had 2 pressure washers frozen over at my garage and will be replacing 1 with a Briggs that has an identical motor. Looks like 4 bolts and I can swap the motors out if needed in a future emergency.
I had a large garbage bag filled with empty milk jugs so I did not have to open any of the 6 cases of water I have stored. I also did not have to use anything out of my 3 month emergency supply of food. We ate out of the freezer and used an electric griddle, propane turkey deep fryer and my coleman fuel campstove.
When all the pumping stations went down and we lost fresh water I melted snow and ice in the turkey deep fryer to allow us to flush the toilet.
We bought ourselves gas logs for Christmas this year and they were supposed to drop a 250 gal tank but apparently dropped a 120 gal instead. We came very close to running out before they could refill it so when its empty again I will get it swapped out for the 250 gal tank.
Over at the garage/guest house I had a propane reddy heater and another 120 gal propane tank. We used the 2nd generator to run the reddy heater over there to try to keep it from freezing. My brother lives there full time until he and his wife save to build a house. There is also a woodburner in the garage that did a fairly good job by itself of keeping things above freezing when the generator was off.
Every trip to Walmart I try to buy something to put in our emergency supplies. We were in good shape with batteries, propane, camp stove fuel and non perishable food. Having hundred of lbs of ground beef/deer and lots of hamburger helper was useful.
We had considerable damage and had a claim for $25k. They will be reroofing most all structures on the property, repairing lots of decking and the bar/party house had a water leak that ruined the furniture and carpet. The insurance company is also reimbursing me for purchasing the 2nd generator as well. If I hadn't busted my ass to keep the main house from freezing they would have been replacing my geo thermal unit and they knew it.
I am going to have a transfer switch installed to run our entire circuit panel and may look at buying a PTO generator. I have a 56 hp tractor that can run a 27500 watt pto generator. I am also going to replace every light blub with compacts.
The Reaper
03-08-2009, 08:02
Great report Jason, thanks!
Some food for thought there.
Our propane supplier heard "whole house generator" mentioned in our future plans and dropped in a 500 gallon tank.
TR
jasonglh
03-08-2009, 11:57
My wife would like to get one but we cannot get natural gas only propane here. The figures I have seen are for
5000 watts = 10hp = 100,000 btu per hour or around 1 gallon of propane or natural gas
so for the 20,000 watt whole house that would be around 4 gal per hour
I forgot to mention my fuel storage plan did work out well. My original plan was to use the sea-foam to treat 10 gal of storage fuel in addition to the 30 gal I keep in my boat. We keep the deck boat at the marina now so I lost the 60 gal I had stored in it. I also had 20 gal, 10 gal, 10 gal, stored in my 3 tractors.
Since the entire western part of the state was without power and there was a 3 hour line to get gas at the station with a generator (when it wasn't out) I used my stored fuel. I used all but the 30 gal in the boat (because it is harder to extract) before gas became more available here.
Future plans will be to add a 3 way to the gas line of the boat to make it easier to drain. The height of the tractors makes it easy but the tank in the boat is down in the belly.
An interesting product for bulk water storage. I'm building a new house and am considering a place for 2 to 4 of these in my garage.
http://incaseof.ca/supertanker.htm#dealers
ZooKeeper
03-08-2009, 14:14
An interesting product for bulk water storage. I'm building a new house and am considering a place for 2 to 4 of these in my garage.
http://incaseof.ca/supertanker.htm#dealers
250 gal storage for a little over $500, that might not be a bad investment. I will have to look into this a little more.
Edit: The only suggestion or thought I would make is to have some 5 gal and/or 15 gal containers in case you need to bail out or move away from your home.
...
move on...nothing to see here..
armymom1228
04-08-2009, 08:58
My wife would like to get one but we cannot get natural gas only propane here. The figures I have seen are for
5000 watts = 10hp = 100,000 BTU per hour or around 1 gallon of propane or natural gas
so for the 20,000 watt whole house that would be around 4 gal per hour
I forgot to mention my fuel storage plan did work out well. My original plan was to use the sea-foam to treat 10 gal of storage fuel in addition to the 30 gal I keep in my boat. We keep the deck boat at the marina now so I lost the 60 gal I had stored in it. I also had 20 gal, 10 gal, 10 gal, stored in my 3 tractors.
Since the entire western part of the state was without power and there was a 3 hour line to get gas at the station with a generator (when it wasn't out) I used my stored fuel. I used all but the 30 gal in the boat (because it is harder to extract) before gas became more available here.
Future plans will be to add a 3 way to the gas line of the boat to make it easier to drain. The height of the tractors makes it easy but the tank in the boat is down in the belly.
If you have a septic tank.. consider methane. We used to heat and cook with methane on the ranch in Colorado back in the day.
There is also a catalog of items for those who live without electricity.. Lehman brothers I _think_ it is called. You can even buy refrigerators that operate on propane.
Another thought, My house in Key West is part of a 'compound'.. the cistern that was created for all two houses and two apts sits beneath it.. all the gutters in the compound lead to that one house. The cistern was 500 gallons.
One thing is very very important, even the B&S will die if you don't do a regular maintenance check on things like gaskets and such. I Have a Honda 2k generator here. I use it off the dock for the AC unit or to charge my batteries if needed. It is part of my 6 month maintenance check, and the big overall yearly check on everything mechanical on the boat, which I live on.
I have it in a file that I can print out and then highlight as each system and its various components are checked, and verified GTG. I keep records over each time I do this and what is replaced or fixed and why it needed that replacing.
It allows me to track what is worth keeping and what is potential dumpster food.
Might also consider wind or solar. Air X makes a decently priced land wind generator. Back in the 1930's in Miami solar water heat was all the rage.
I think there is some stuff on the web about their methods. Fairly simple... black coiled hose on the rooftops to a storage bin painted black.
Sounds like overall you did well though..
AM
greenberetTFS
04-10-2009, 12:40
If you have a septic tank.. consider methane. We used to heat and cook with methane on the ranch in colorado back in the day.
There is also a catalog of items for those who live without electricity.. Lehman brothers I _think_ it is called. You can even buy refrigerators that operate on propane.
Another thought, My house in Key West is part of a 'compound'.. the cistern that was created for all two houses and two apts sits beneath it.. all the gutters in the compound lead to that one house. The cistern was 500 gallons.
One thing is very very important, even the B&S will die if you don't do a regular maintenence check on things like gaskets and such. I Have a honda 2k generator here. I use it off the dock for the AC unit or to charge my batteries if needed. It is part of my 6 month maintenence check, and the big overall yearly check on everything mechanical on the boat, which I live on.
I have it in a file that I cna print out and then highlight as each system and its various comoenents are checked, and verified GTG. I keep records over each time I do this and what is replaced or fixed and why it needed that replacing.
It allows me to track what is worth keeping and what is potential dumpster food.
Might also consider wind or solar. Air X makes a decently priced land wind generator. Back in the 1930's in Miami solar water heat was all the rage.
I think there is some stoff on the web about thier methods. Fairly simple... black coiled hose on the rooftops to a storage bin painted black.
Sounds like overall you did well though..
AM
AM, I believe your a qualified 18C! Because for a woman(and I don't mean to sound or to be disrespectful) your surprisingly knowledgeable in mechanical, electrical, and just about any other technical subject that comes up. Remarkable,I've even picked up a few pointers from you..................:D
GB TFS :munchin
Peregrino
04-10-2009, 16:11
AM, I believe your a qualified 18C! Because for a woman(and I don't mean to sound or to be disrespectful) your surprisingly knowledgeable in mechanical, electrical, and just about any other technical subject subject that comes up. Remarkable,I've even picked up a few pointers from you..................:D
GB TFS :munchin
Must be that "liveaboard" thing! :p Nothing like the Ocean and a sailboat to teach "improvise, adapt, and overcome". Most of my "two is one, one is none" attitude came from MAROPS.
jasonglh
04-13-2009, 13:18
Survivalists 2.0: Regular people get ready for the worst (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/hotstories/6370000.html)
Being prepared goes mainstream!
TrapLine
04-13-2009, 18:05
I would like to thank TR and everyone else who contributed to this thread. I printed the whole thing off and sprung it on the wife during a 3 hr drive to the inlaws for Easter. After some initial hesitation, she saw the light and we began to go over our disaster plans. I also shared the info with the inlaws, which would be our bug out destination due to their rural location. They are also going to begin preperations. As one would imagine in MN we have about six months where winter survival becomes serious. We have a long way to go, but we are on the right track. Thanks again to all those here who helped.
armymom1228
04-13-2009, 22:46
AM, I believe your a qualified 18C! Because for a woman(and I don't mean to sound or to be disrespectful) your surprisingly knowledgeable in mechanical, electrical, and just about any other technical subject subject that comes up. Remarkable,I've even picked up a few pointers from you..................:D
GB TFS :munchin
Thank you... I think... Soooooooo for a girl..........................;)
(falls out of chair laughing)
So what did I teach you? and how much more would you like to learn.. :munchin
There is LOTS AND LOTS I don't know a know. Give me a manual and the schematics and I can figure it all out, and that I don't have the right specialty tool
to fix it.. story of my life.
armymom1228
04-13-2009, 23:35
250 gal storage for a little over $500, that might not be a bad investment. I will have to look into this a little more.
Edit: The only suggestion or thought I would make is to have some 5 gal and/or 15 gal containers in case you need to bail out or move away from your home.
Build yourself a cistern.. run your gutters to the cistern.. everytime it rains the water goes to fill the cistern.. You can turn an overflow into a waterfall or a nice stream.. its what we did with our cistern .. had a stream that had wild roses and columbine growing along it..
You can make a concrete cistern for about a thousand gallons for that kind of money. Or you can build one out of concrete blocks and then paint the inside with the same kind of paint that they use in underground storage tanks. I happen to have the name of a company that sells that kind of paint.
Ya gotta be pretty careful with the paint though. 3 or 4 layers, each painted a different way, one layer up and down, next horizontal, next up and down and so on..
One can purchase at Wally World collapsable water containers for a reasonable price. Water is easy to aquire.. keep a bottle with bleach in it..
few drops in the bottle and the water is purified.. too much and it tastes like crap.. btdt that last fall when I shocked my tank..eewww nasty taste but it biodegrades overnight. How much bleach.. You can put it in one of those plastic campting bottles.. do NOT use aluminum bottles. It will eat away the aluminum.
Build yourself a cistern.. run your gutters to the cistern.. everytime it rains the water goes to fill the cistern...
Unless collecting rainwater for personal use is illegal, like it has been for the last 100+ years here on the eastern slope of Colorado.
In other words, be sure to check your local ordinances before laying out money and effort.
I have used Tang with some salt as an ORS for my family and I for years.
Tang ingredients are listed at 9 grams of sugar per 8 oz serving.
Using 4 grams/tsp of Sugar, there is 2.25 tsp per 8 oz serving, or 9 grams per quart.
Add your 1 tsp of salt, and you have an ORS with a little extra sugar, but a flavor most people will tolerate well.
Tang does not list Potassium or Magnesium. It lists 10% of the RDA of Calcium. It has quite a few Vitamins listed as well, and it stays useful practically forever.
Defender968
04-28-2009, 13:35
Unless collecting rainwater for personal use is illegal, like it has been for the last 100+ years here on the eastern slope of Colorado.
In other words, be sure to check your local ordinances before laying out money and effort.
Why on earth is it illegal there?
Odd water rights laws written a century ago with no updates.
Why on earth is it illegal there?
Somebody not been reading all the posts around here?
Who owns the Rain?
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22937
Blitzzz (RIP)
04-29-2009, 15:45
GOD gave us that water not some f--king government Bureaucrats.
But then I haven't asked Obama yet. Blitzzz
Defender968
04-29-2009, 17:42
Somebody not been reading all the posts around here?
Who owns the Rain?
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22937
My apologies, I did miss that one. Personally I disagree with the idea that anyone gets to claim ownership of the rain, if it falls on your property and you want to collect it, you should have the right IMO, trying to say you don't is just another instance of the gov getting way to involved with a citizens day to day life for no reason.
FYI for water, fuel, etc. They come in different grades for different liquids.
These were new to me...they are apparently the equivalent to steel shipping containers for small quantities of liquids. They're colloquially called "totes" and when I Googled "tote 330 gallons Illinois" I got hundreds of hits, many local.
Most are stackable up to 4 high, so I'd assume you could put one in the corner of the garage, fill it 3/4 with water (we freeze hard around here), cover it with a square of 3/4 ply, and stack stuff on it up to the ceiling. A 330 gal tote full of H2O would weigh more than a ton, so they must be tough if they stack 4 high. They have standard fittings and most apparently come with industrial ball valves. Standard size for 330 gal is 46½" x 46½" x 48".
The guy who told me about them got a once-used 330 gallon food-grade unit for $120 hauled away from a chocolate factory. He just had to rinse out liquid glucose residue.
12381
ZooKeeper
06-22-2009, 18:19
FYI for water, fuel, etc. They come in different grades for different liquids.
These were new to me...they are apparently the equivalent to steel shipping containers for small quantities of liquids. They're colloquially called "totes" and when I Googled "tote 330 gallons Illinois" I got hundreds of hits, many local.
Most are stackable up to 4 high, so I'd assume you could put one in the corner of the garage, fill it 3/4 with water (we freeze hard around here), cover it with a square of 3/4 ply, and stack stuff on it up to the ceiling. A 330 gal tote full of H2O would weigh more than a ton, so they must be tough if they stack 4 high. They have standard fittings and most apparently come with industrial ball valves. Standard size for 330 gal is 46½" x 46½" x 48".
The guy who told me about them got a once-used 330 gallon food-grade unit for $120 hauled away from a chocolate factory. He just had to rinse out liquid glucose residue.
12381
We use these in my line of work in 500-600 gal versions. Ours have fungicide & insecticide in them. You have to use a forklift to move them. If you had a walkout basement with double doors (or another way to get them in a environment that didn't freeze), you could put clean/new totes there & use a pump (Banjo Corp?) to move water to where you need it/into your current home piping.
armymom1228
06-22-2009, 18:43
We use these in my line of work in 500-600 gal versions. Ours have fungicide & insecticide in them. You have to use a forklift to move them. If you had a walkout basement with double doors (or another way to get them in a environment that didn't freeze), you could put clean/new totes there & use a pump (Banjo Corp?) to move water to where you need it/into your current home piping.
A marine grade water pump system is not hard to create on land.. with a dc source for electricity.. water pump with an accumulator and you can use the tank as a direct supply right to the faucet.
OTOH, a foot pump like I have on Evangeline works well too.. does not need any form of electricity and saves on water.
I installed one of these puppies last weekend in the galley.
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|51|26723|316451&id=1125818
search for a water pump there as well. If you do go that route.. you need to make doubly sure that any hose you use is 'food grade' and able to handle whatever psi the water pump requires. You can get it at home depot and don't let the knuckledragger there try to tell you it is all the same.. it is NOT..
Brush, usually the order of materials is reversed, with sand on the bottom. The reason is that the larger and then smaller rocks are used to catch the "big chunks" of particulate before it reaches the sand, which would quickly become covered/clogged otherwise.
The Reaper
06-23-2009, 14:07
Some charcoal wouldn't hurt either.
TR
armymom1228
06-23-2009, 14:31
Brush, usually the order of materials is reversed, with sand on the bottom. The reason is that the larger and then smaller rocks are used to catch the "big chunks" of particulate before it reaches the sand, which would quickly become covered/clogged otherwise.
I kept looking at BO's post and knew something was wrong... I am suffering from CRS a lot lately.... One can go to an aquarium shop and get this fine grade sand used in the bottom of aquariums for filter. It works well for that particular application. TR's right, mosdef charcoal.
'Play Sand' one can aquire at any Home Depot is good, but this 'river sand' from the fish shop is even smaller sized.
AM
This looks like a good option for storing water if you see the storm coming...not much good if you hear the 'boil order' before you have time to fill it, though.
WaterBOB (http://www.waterboboriginal.com/custom/index.cfm?id=163553)
I made up a kit for my folks in hurricane-land several Christmases past and included two thin plastic dropcloths-- one to line the tub and one to cover the water to prevent evaporation. This looks a bit more elegant. I have one on order and I'll write a short review when I test it out.
Not sure where to ask these questions, so here seems best. Time context is the year 1450 A.D.
1. Does anyone have the basics for making/storing goat/cow cheese?
2. Does anyone know the process of creating penicillin?
3. What is the best compilation/book of Native American medicinal plants?
Sherman...didn't you learn your lesson the last time you used Mr.Peabody's Wayback Machine?
This looks like a good option for storing water if you see the storm coming...not much good if you hear the 'boil order' before you have time to fill it, though.
WaterBOB (http://www.waterboboriginal.com/custom/index.cfm?id=163553)
I made up a kit for my folks in hurricane-land several Christmases past and included two thin plastic dropcloths-- one to line the tub and one to cover the water to prevent evaporation. This looks a bit more elegant. I have one on order and I'll write a short review when I test it out.
Other than evaporation, what would be the benefits of this device compared to your poly sheet kit or merely filling the tub with water?
Other than evaporation, what would be the benefits of this device compared to your poly sheet kit or merely filling the tub with water?
Not who you asked, but I have those. The other advantage over filling the tub is that you won't have to filter the water to drink it. The chemicals you clean your tub (and the dirt since you probably didn't clean it before filling in an emergency) with are not great for you. The poly sheets are cheaper, but easier to contaminate your supply since the sheet is just laying there. With proper care, not a problem.
Other than evaporation, what would be the benefits of this device compared to your poly sheet kit or merely filling the tub with water?
Well, compared with lining a tub with a poly sheet, filling the tub, and laying down another sheet to cover the tub, I agree that I don't see much advantage. I've tried this method and it works well. You need some dexterity to manage the top sheet without sinking it or sticking it to itself when wet. I can see my folk, who are in their 80s, wrestling with this. When I get the new bladder I'll judge if the pump is more problematic than the top sheet.
If you don't line the tub in some fashion first, I suspect that the next day you'll find the tub empty, unless your stopper is much tighter fitting than mine. And in the winter around here I'd lose 1" per day to evaporation without a top sheet (assuming the heat is still on).
crazyjake123
07-31-2009, 16:09
I watched the first two episodes and it looks like an interesting experiment on post catastrophe survival. Hope you all enjoy.
It airs every Tuesday at 10pm on Discovery Channel. But the first two episodes are online at the discovery channel website.
http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/colony/colony.html:
What would you do in the wake of a global catastrophe? How would you find food? Water? Shelter?
The Colony is a controlled experiment to see exactly what it would take to survive and rebuild under these circumstances. For 10 weeks, a group of 10 volunteers, whose backgrounds and expertise represent a cross-section of modern society, are isolated in an urban environment outside Los Angeles and tasked with creating a livable society.
With no electricity from the grid, no running water and no communication with the outside world, all the volunteers have to work with are their skills and whatever tools and supplies they can scavenge from their surroundings.
Experts from the fields of homeland security, engineering and psychology have helped design the world of The Colony to reflect elements from both real-life disasters and models of what the future could look like after a global viral outbreak.
Over the course of the 10-week experiment, the Colonists must work together to build the necessities of survival, such as a water-filtration system, a battery bank that powered their electricity, a solar cooker, a shower system and a greenhouse – and even some niceties (a coffee maker!).
Tune in Tuesday, July 21, 2009 at 10 p.m. ET/PT to see who thrives and who fails to survive
I watched the first two episodes and it looks like an interesting experiment on post catastrophe survival. Hope you all enjoy...
I liked Out of the Wild but I'm not too crazy about this one. Flicked it off after the first raid (not the first hunt for supplies) by the bad guys.
The threat of deadly force is the first reply in a situation like that and the civilized version for TV is just too unreal.
A handmade crossbow shooting a two foot metal bolt through an intruder's chest would show your intensions were serious. But for TV it was pushy, shovey, oooh that's mean.
Defender968
08-01-2009, 10:43
I'd tend to agree with Pete, the superficial drama is a bit much, though it's brought up a few topics that I hadn't thought about, like how to handle additional unrelated but apparently unthreatening visitors to your camp i.e. extra mouths to feed, especially when considering the reactions of some of your own people. It’s also interesting to me to see how untrained personnel view things, like security for instance, not earth shattering knowledge, but it is somewhat thought provoking for me at least.
Overall not the worst hour of TV I've seen.
The Reaper
08-01-2009, 11:32
I watched them struggle to build a generator and make wood gas for fuel, completely overlooking steam power or the bicycles that were sitting around. Funny how people look for to apply a specific solution from their own experience set and spend way too much energy on it rather than considering alternatives.
The handyman may be useful, but he is an opinionated asshole who would quickly grow tiresome. Several others are friction points with attitudes as well.
I also disagree with looting other people's property who are still in the area trying to survive themselves, it is only one step beyond that to killing all competitors in your AO.
Made me think, though. I would watch it again.
TR
Defender968
08-01-2009, 14:34
The handyman may be useful, but he is an opinionated asshole who would quickly grow tiresome. Several others are friction points with attitudes as well.
Absolutely agree, he's got good experience/skills but his personal issues are already causing friction as you said TR, the wife and I saw a re-run of the wood gas generator today, I commented to her that he and the young female engineer both seemed to have issues/attitudes that are not helpful and going to be counter to group cohesion and counterproductive in general IMO.
I also disagree with looting other people's property who are still in the area trying to survive themselves, it is only one step beyond that to killing all competitors in your AO.
That part got to me as well, one thing to scavenge from empty homes/stores, the country side, quite another to take from other survivors, that didn't set very well, but it doesn't surprise me particularly either.
It also brought me back to thinking about what if those same people came to my camp and were determined to be non-hostile, the decision to either allow them in or turn them away becomes critical, and morally challenging especially with limited resources. Under the show's circumstances they've got limited resources so adding mouths to feed becomes problematic at some point, however strength in numbers plus the additional skills they may bring make for a complicated decision.
As you said it does provoke thought, I'll give it another look.
TR
Agree: completely overlooking steam power or the bicycles that were sitting around.
They couldnt see the forest for the trees. A pulley and belt mounted to the rear tire of one of the bikes proportioned to that of an "exercycle" would be a whole lot easier than the wood gas principle or even the old U.S. Army HC type generators.
More on water filtration...
My old NGO friend who lives for months on end in absolute shit holes has recommended a new water filter to me. She is using these in Congo villages as a stop gap while they dig new wells for a clean water supply. They bring in 10 of the filter units and use the ubiquitous plastic buckets as the 'dirty' resevoir. The Point Zero Two version filters 30 liters per hour and requires no other treatment (the .02 micron filter catches all viruses so no hypochlorite is needed for post-filter treatment). It apparently uses technology originally developed for ambulatory renal dialysis units. A simple back wash of the filter restores maximal flow. The manufacturers claim they've put a million gallons through one. The web site has testing and accredidation info.
I've never used it, but if NGO-Barbie recommends it that has been good in the past. They don't use them 'on demand' as the site recommends -- they need to 'make' too much water to supply a village -- so they leave them running constantly. They pre-filter the water through gravel/sand/cotton cloth. The Point Zero Two filters are back-flushed twice daily. Seems a good test of the system. At $145 they are cheaper than most portable/backpacking units.
She also says that if she had to buy them (the Point Zero Two units she uses were donated) she would use the Point One filter as the flow rate is double and the cost less than half ($60). Those do not filter out all viruses but catch all bacteria, protozoa, cysts, etc. She says the locals are resistant to most viruses in their environment and the ones they aren't (Hep A) pass around the water supply anyway.
The site: http://www.sawyerpointonefilters.com/point-zero-two-purifier.php
ETA: searching on this I found another site that says these guys were at the last SHOT. Anyone see this there?
Peregrino
08-16-2009, 13:44
More on water filtration...
The site: http://www.sawyerpointonefilters.com/point-zero-two-purifier.php
ETA: searching on this I found another site that says these guys were at the last SHOT. Anyone see this there?
No, but I will be looking for them next year. Thanks for the info. Now I need to find/make an actvated charcoal filter to put downstream from this one. (Chemically contaminated well water at the new house, lost the lake I depended on when we moved, now I'm stuck on city water and have to have a more elaborate emergency plan. :()
On the topic of water and filtration:
Has anyone seen this product yet?
http://www.lifesaversystems.com/index.html
a very good presentation on the product can be viewed here:
http://www.ted.com/talks/michael_pritchard_invents_a_water_filter.html
Seems like a very practical product to me for drinking water, although I can't see a substitute for knowledge of filtration systems in case of a system failure...
After all, we are discussing being prepared.
On the topic of water and filtration:
Has anyone seen this product yet?
http://www.lifesaversystems.com/index.html
a very good presentation on the product can be viewed here:
http://www.ted.com/talks/michael_pritchard_invents_a_water_filter.html
They pitch this for disaster relief, for which it seems singularly impractical. The pump-on-the-move feature may make it better suited for mil operations but it looks like you'd need to filter several bottles to fill a Camelback.
Pros: It catches all viruses, it looks like you can fill the 'dirty' side reservoir and then pump it on the move, and it has a useful life of 1000 gallons before needing refurbishment.
Cons: size (UK Tommy has it in his smock pocket - I wonder what falling prone onto it would do) , expense ($150), it has a 3 year expiry even when unused/unopened, requires maintenance (periodic silicone greasing during use, 'priming' during storage), the backwash procedure needed for the 1000 gal. limit looks complicated, it uses replacement parts (new filter $99 plus $40 for prefilter and activated carbon filter packs), requires active pumping, and it apparently suddenly shuts down without warning when the filter limit is reached (which they sell as a feature).
Sounds fiddly, like my M1A. :) I think the third world (or my family in a disaster scenario) needs an AK: unlimited shelf life, no replacement parts, minimal or no maintenance, unlimited filter life, passive filtering (no pumping), high flow rate, cheap price. All instructions for use should fit on one side of a laminated 3x5 notecard. If it needs a manual, forget it.
armymom1228
08-28-2009, 20:41
No, but I will be looking for them next year. Thanks for the info. Now I need to find/make an actvated charcoal filter to put downstream from this one. (Chemically contaminated well water at the new house, lost the lake I depended on when we moved, now I'm stuck on city water and have to have a more elaborate emergency plan. :()
Key West as no natural water. Many houses are set up as compounds. My house there had a two story duplex and the house next door with rain gutters and piping that sent ALL rainwater into the cistern that was under my back porch. Not sure of the exact tankage but the cistern itself was 8 feet deep, 22feet long by 12 feet wide. At any given time it was 1/2 to 2/3's full. We had a foot pump that could get water out fairly easily.
Whale gusher makes a simple foot pump that runs about $100, get the tubing that is for 45psi and up..
The problem with technology is that it breaks down. If there is a breakdown in society that creates a need for all this prep. Then, the possibilty of finding replacement parts decreases, it seems, with the further slide into more 'primitive' living conditions. Some of the old standbys for purifying water are pretty simple. Bleach and iodine. Bleach breaks down into biodegradeable components within roughly 24 hours. I use it all the time in my water tank.
One might consider sorting through the Foxfire Series of books. Is it Mother Earth News that has all that back to the earth living in primitive conditions like hippies stuff a lot in thier mag? Thing is a lot of that stuff is very useful. But to get past the organic, back to the earth, techonology is bad stuff is a bit bothersome.
AM,
Do you have a reverse osmosis pump or desalinator to augment your rain catchment?
armymom1228
08-29-2009, 01:30
AM,
Do you have a reverse osmosis pump or desalinator to augment your rain catchment?
Do you mean boat or house? No,to both, for any number of reasons.
I am by no means a luddite. However, a decent watermaker would cost in the $4,300 range plus installation. A single replacement membrane is $338. Those prices are from www.defender.com do a search for 'watermaker'. The power 80e
The manual model takes 13 minutes of pumping to get a single cup of water.
For the cost of one watermaker I can have one of these puppies, tuned to (illegally) add the SSB bands.
http://yaesu.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd=DisplayProducts&ProdCatID=102&encProdID=292E02F4E4D00EC99887A63E7B8ECD1B&DivisionID=65&isArchived=0
I can even have some nice bells and whistles. Antennas and all that good stuff.
Considering that someone has proposed a bill to ban the internet (cross thread points please) in times of 'national crisis".. It seems wiser to use my meager funds on something far more useful. :D:D with a pactor modem I can even get weather gribs and email.
I am a firm believer in KISS. The simpler it is, the less I have to work at maintaining it. The less there is to go wrong. Gutters and pipes to a cistern need virtually no maintenence. A mainsail with a catch funnel with hose to the watertank again simple and easy to maintain. I am rather lazy, I would much rather lay under the bimini and read, than work at some techno whiz bang toy.
Sounds reasonable. I was just curious if you had insight into those types of water sources, given all the salt water that surrounds your AO.
mikemcgl
09-27-2009, 20:37
Repear,
Thanks for starting this thread and keeping it going. Lots of great stuff.
Found this link, dont know anythign about the product, gonna have to try it
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11192506&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&N=4010170&Mo=38&No=10&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=293&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&Sp=C&topnav=
dadof18x'er
10-24-2009, 19:07
[QUOTE=Costa;280938]On the topic of water and filtration:
here's a water purifier my wife researched and ordered, it works by
gravity flow and supposedly gets all the contaminants...
http://www.preparedplanet.com/Berkey-Water-Filters.html
dadof18x'er
10-26-2009, 20:25
[QUOTE=Costa;280938]On the topic of water and filtration:
here's a water purifier my wife researched and ordered, it works by
gravity flow and supposedly gets all the contaminants...
http://www.preparedplanet.com/Berkey-Water-Filters.html
for those interested we have now started using this filter and I am really
impressed with its simplicity. The water tastes good and according to the
specs it leaves the desirable minerals.
The Survival Mom
http://thesurvivalmom.com/
Kinda' a fun site, some good articles and I liked the PET bottle storage and solar oven. Worth a look see.
(2nd times a charm.)
Thought I was prepared for the "Ice Storm" that hit. Woa was I wrong,
but knew it would be okay.
In a 24 hour peroid, my AO was turned upside down.
I learned that when one is alone in bed at night, with ice falling, power lines snapping, and transformers lighting up the night sky, there are no worries...
"The back-up plan" was going to take effect:
(also, red-neck engineering comes in handy right about now!)
Needless to say after four days of no heat, power or running water, (and when wanting to sacrifie a lamb in the front yard to the "power-gods",) the truth becomes clear...
Always have a "Back-Up Plan!"
Mine saved my a** from becoming a casulty popsicle.
Hence the reality of this story...this thread saved my a**.
Here it is two yeaars later, and conditions outside are the same as the aforementioned Ice-Storm. Significant precip the last five hours, increasing gusty winds now at 50mph, and the temp has dropped to freezing as of 14:00. Now for the real blow, the next fours hours are predicted rapidly falling temps and from 4-10 inches of snow/ freezing rain, due to the low pressure system hovering in the atmosphere.
Went out again early this morning to get last min. items, but thankful to be prepared in case me and sis lose power again. Have all readiness items out and checked, operator manuals are with in reach, as is the Pennslyvania Dutch 'nog is chilling, just in case.:o
Here is to being warm, Merry Christmas!!!
Holly
Found this link, dont know anythign about the product, gonna have to try it
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11192506&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&N=4010170&Mo=38&No=10&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=293&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&Sp=C&topnav=
It's an AlpinAire Product. AlpinAire and Mountain House offer a similar product.
The Mountain House Beef Stew tastes just like the LRRP Beef Stew.
Any outdoor store like Gander Mountain, etc should have a food section with individual meals from both.
Individual meals are handy, get some and try them out.
Having a few days worth would be nice but a large supply would be pricey. A case or two of mixed meat # 10 cans would be great for using with home stored rice and beans.
Powdered eggs in # 10 cans are also good.
http://store.honeyvillegrain.com/powderedwholeeggscan.aspx
There is prepared in a kit bag and prepared at home. This post is being prepared at home for warmth. Living in the mountains, power does go out. It has been out here for up to 2 weeks in a bad snow storm. Most fireplaces look pretty but do little to heat.
MMO is to suggest that your home have a simple solution like a radiant heat stove/oven. I looked for a German one but could only get Finnish in this area -- Tulikivi. Stoking it for 2-4 hours keeps the house warm for 24. Many people have Franklin stoves which are great while burning, but not practical to keep stoked all night. Tulikivis weigh over 5000 lbs and heat up soap stone channels to keep the heat radiating for maximum time.
Of course, I should point out, have some wood cut -- even if you are surrounded by woods. It needs to dry. Devil is in the details.
If trying to stay warm out of doors, and you have a number of people, warmest night I ever spent was -4 F outside in a para-tepee with 7 fellow winter survival candidates. So if you have an old parachute, or something that makes a good tent (maybe a tent) and friends, it works.
Merry Christmas.
There is prepared in a kit bag and prepared at home. This post is being prepared at home for warmth. Living in the mountains, power does go out. It has been out here for up to 2 weeks in a bad snow storm. Most fireplaces look pretty but do little to heat.
MMO is to suggest that your home have a simple solution like a radiant heat stove/oven. I looked for a German one but could only get Finnish in this area -- Tulikivi. Stoking it for 2-4 hours keeps the house warm for 24. Many people have Franklin stoves which are great while burning, but not practical to keep stoked all night. Tulikivis weigh over 5000 lbs and heat up soap stone channels to keep the heat radiating for maximum time.
Of course, I should point out, have some wood cut -- even if you are surrounded by woods. It needs to dry. Devil is in the details.
If trying to stay warm out of doors, and you have a number of people, warmest night I ever spent was -4 F outside in a para-tepee with 7 fellow winter survival candidates. So if you have an old parachute, or something that makes a good tent (maybe a tent) and friends, it works.
Merry Christmas.
We utilize a gas fireplace, with fake logs, that warms the middle section of the house quite well. Also use a gas stove, for cooking with suitable items/boiling water etc...
Also have a multitude of blankets, and gear to stay warm, if sleeping in other rooms without the fireplace....and Wow. The ice is really, really coming down now. :munchin
Holly
No, but I will be looking for them next year. Thanks for the info. Now I need to find/make an actvated charcoal filter to put downstream from this one. (Chemically contaminated well water at the new house, lost the lake I depended on when we moved, now I'm stuck on city water and have to have a more elaborate emergency plan. :()
Just a thought but can you set up rain catch barrels or multiple hot water heater tanks in your house/condo? Both are cheap and look normal in the city/suburb and can hold a lot of water...
Defender968
12-31-2009, 10:05
Just a thought but can you set up rain catch barrels or multiple hot water heater tanks in your house/condo? Both are cheap and look normal in the city/suburb and can hold a lot of water...
I wouldn't recommend the hot water tank approach for storing water long term, they rust pretty bad especially if you don't drain them frequently, food grade plastic tanks would be a much better solution.
Just a thought but can you set up rain catch barrels or multiple hot water heater tanks in your house/condo? Both are cheap and look normal in the city/suburb and can hold a lot of water...
Hide it in plain sight.
http://www.composters.com/rain-barrels.php
That is were I got mt rain catch barrel, blends right in with the house. During a recent blackout I noticed that the same houses that had something more than flashlights on at night also had rain catch barrels.
Rgr, on the rust I have one rigged to feed the other and drain both when I change the fire alarm batteries and test the auto sump pump in the basement.
I noticed that the same houses that had something more than flashlights on at night also had rain catch barrels.
Bring them a pan of brownies and get to know them....:)
armymom1228
12-31-2009, 16:37
I wouldn't recommend the hot water tank approach for storing water long term, they rust pretty bad especially if you don't drain them frequently, food grade plastic tanks would be a much better solution.
Two solutions. Plastic pickle barrels. My dtr has a number of them. Uses two for composting. She has 4 more, one at each corner of her new house. In the process of hiding them behind plants. Each barrel now has a spigot at the bottom attached to a ball valve that a hose can be attached to.
I was in Home Depot today and saw some very nice looking rain catchment barrels. One was red clay colored, the other a sand pebble texture. Both were flat backed to stand up against a wall. One can purchase diverter system from the rain gutter to the barrel.
A ground floor condo one can use an umbrella as a catchment system with enough plastic hosing..make sure that whatever you use is "food safe" meaning that NO plastic chemical crap gets into your drinking water. One can use an umbrella, a funnel and hose to fill a bathtub in an emergency. You just need to look around at what is at hand and think outside the box.
AM
Now those boiling water kill viruses. Like I had stated before, I am looking for a filter that will either destroy thing such as ALL viruses. I have a river running buy my house that once caught fire and has polio also in it. The bacteria rate is impossible for fishing and swimming. We have have people all the time Kayak down there and almost always get/catch a virus or somenth creepy. Had another guy who recievd a cut on his foot which would be know big deal. 6 days later they almost lost him aNow, does any one of these aforementiond water filters are capable to also kill viruses? Like I had stated before, I am looking for a filter that will either destroy every thing in the waters such as ALL viruses. I have a river running buy my house that once caught fire and has polio also in it. The bacteria rate is skyhigh.
It is so bad here that there are no fishing and no swimmiing signs every where cannot possibley and their are signs up statintg their is that ther are no for fishing and swimming. We have people all the time Kayaking down there and cathinget/catch a virus or somenthing creepy. Had another guy who recievd a cut on his foot which would not behave been big thing if it were to have happened on landon lsndbe a serious injury. 6 days later they almost lost him and had . They did remove his leg however up to the hip. So that is my immediate water supply withe next one being whithinnd had . They did remove his leg however up to the hip. So that is my immediate water supply.:munchin
Defender968
01-01-2010, 12:07
So my wife and I will be taking a little vacation in the near future to the mountains for a little R&R, while there we're going to look for a vacation/retirement/SHTF property.
Our vision for this property is to be more than 25 acres, not terribly steep, but with some good contours and some ridgelines but also some flatter areas. We're not looking in the mountains proper but a little east of the mountains.
What we're looking for is a property that has water originating on it (spring and or well), that preferably has some open areas already cleared that could be used for farming or pastureland, but with the majority of the land being mostly timbered. It needs to be accessible enough for building but not have a paved road on it. We want it off the beaten path enough to avoid mass migrations should there be any from major cities during a disaster, but still within 30 miles of a hospital with an ER.
Our idea is to put a cabin on it now, then over time build a retirement home there. Currently I've been looking at properties that share boundaries with public land, either game land or national forest, as that gives me easy access to hunting, as well as the guarantee of not being developed, however I was thinking about it and having property that borders game land/national forest means there is a legitimate reason people would be on neighboring land who I wouldn’t know, which presents some risk if we have a place up there that isn't occupied 24/7/365. My thought is we would mark the boundaries with the standard No Trespassing/no hunting signs during Non SHTF times, which would limit incursions from hunters and hikers for the most part as I think hunters and hikers are usually pretty good about respecting private land for the most part. Then we would take those signs down to try to blend in during SHTF times.
Now we’ll use good OPSEC to minimize who knows where the property is and what’s on it, and have the signs posted to hopefully minimize unwanted incursions, but with those things in mind anyone have any thoughts on pros v.s. cons of bordering public land for SHTF times?
Not having neighbors at all during SHTF times could be good if you don't know and/or can't trust the neighbors. However good/trustworthy neighbors are obviously also invaluable as another ring of defense as well as a QRF with proper commo and preplanned agreements in place before SHTF or shortly thereafter.
Defender968-
If your wife doesn't mind cold winters, the isolation of the Rocky Mountians, (ID, MT, UT, WY, CO, AZ, NM) is a nice place to start. Southwest is a bit milder for seniors.
If wanting to stay in SC, NC, TN, KY, WV, those mountains could quickly be over-run with migrating refugees of the east coast.
WD
Fun in the Mud - you have to be prepared.
Had some fun in the mud this morning. Went out in the sticks to look at a piece of land. A couple of acres about 200 yards off the paved state road on the other side of a peanut field. Two rut track through the field. First part was harvested, second part standing while a bit over the rise was harvested. Been raining on and off the last two days.
Driving the Ford Focus - tires a bit on the worn side - OK they should be replaced.
Stop at the start of the drive. Stomp a bit looks OK. Start driving, no problem on the first harvested part and the standing crop, gets a little "slickery" as I get deeper into the 2nd un-harvested part. Oooops, a big ol' honkin' mud puddle that was out of sight of the road. Slow down to a stop. Figure I'd best get out and go to back up. Tires start to spin. Rocked it a bit and gave it the gas and the left front wheel dropped like a rock.
Shut the car off and got out. The left front tire was in up to the rim, right only a couple of inches. Look around, miles of peanut and bean fields, a couple of farm homes about a mile off.
Oh, well.
What do I have? An e-tool, GoreTex Jacket and the jacket I'm wearing. The back end of the car is angled off the track a bit so I need to pull forward to get lined back up on the track. I dig out the front of the tires to a gental slope, fold each jacket in half and get them as long as I can running in front of the tires. Start the car, pull forward about a car length to clear the holes, get out, retrieve the jackets and fill the holes.
Now I can either put the jackets down again to get me moving or give it a shot without them. I throw the jackets in the trunk and give it a shot. It starts rolling, a little fasted, bump through the holes and I'm off an running in reverse. Don't slow down until I hit pavement.
Outcome? A dirty e-tool and two muddy jackets. I think I'll add two 18" x 4 foot pieces of old carpet to the back of all my cars trunks.
Don't look that bad from the road does it.
Pete....lol, next time ride a horse.. Here are a couple of options I learned from growing up in cold weather. Snow chains on the drive wheels work great in mud if you're stuck. Another option, and won't need to buy carpets, is a 25 foot come-along, a piece of 2" or 3" pipe about 2 to 3 feet long, and a 2,000 lb TS strap to make a loop on, and place centered on the pipe, and an e-tool. Dig a small 2 ft deep T shaped dead mans hole in front or behind your vehicle, place the pipe at the top or the T shaped dead man, hook the come-along to your car, then to the strap attached to the pipe, and wintch yourself out, works suprisingly well. Cost of pipe $5.00, Come-along $20-$25.00, strap $5.00, photos of Pete using his wifes new welcome carpets to get his Ford Focus unstuck....priceless
:) Buck
Defender968-
If your wife doesn't mind cold winters, the isolation of the Rocky Mountians, (ID, MT, UT, WY, CO, AZ, NM) is a nice place to start. Southwest is a bit milder for seniors.
If wanting to stay in SC, NC, TN, KY, WV, those mountains could quickly be over-run with migrating refugees of the east coast.
WD
Yup, about half of D.C. and Northern Virginia plans on heading to somewhere in WV in event of SHTF. I don't know how they are going to get there or where there even is.
Now those boiling water kill viruses. Like I had stated before, I am looking for a filter that will either destroy thing such as ALL viruses. Like I had stated before, I am looking for a filter that will either destroy every thing in the waters such as ALL viruses.
MAB,
I believe that viruses can be as small as hundredths of a micron (IIRC, polio runs around .005 microns). About the only thing that removes something that small from a water supply is reverse osmosis, I think. It seems to me that your options would be to invest in a fairly expensive RO set, or simply filter and then treat your water.
Defender968
01-01-2010, 21:37
Defender968-
If your wife doesn't mind cold winters, the isolation of the Rocky Mountians, (ID, MT, UT, WY, CO, AZ, NM) is a nice place to start. Southwest is a bit milder for seniors.
If wanting to stay in SC, NC, TN, KY, WV, those mountains could quickly be over-run with migrating refugees of the east coast.
WD
Wet Dog we're going to be limited to the east coast, using a piece of land in the Rocky Mountains would be problematic for vacation as well as retirement, and for a SHTF scenario the Rockies would be too far to do me or my family any good. Also the longer growing season near the Smoky mountains is another benefit of being at a lower altitude further south. You are correct in those areas, but for me it's not going to be feasible for my plans.
I am somewhat concerned by a mass migration, my thought was that I would need to be as self sufficient as possible, use OPSEC, and be well off the beaten path of highways and not visible from the turn off of the small paved public road my property will be off of. I don't think too many city folks fleeing a terrorist attack or pandemic will go wandering up dirt roads in the woods on the off chance of finding somewhere to hunker down. My thought is that they’ll likely head for smaller cities/towns where there are resources, eventually when those resources become scarce they may expand outward from those smaller cities, to towns and so on. In the event they do eventually make it to my doorstep and are determined to harm me and mine I'll have well established DFPs, good fields of fire and a 24/7 security plan in place. Hopefully it will not come to that, but better to have a plan than to rely on hope or luck.
I'm looking at staying away from the major corridors that I think that type of mass migration will follow, i.e. major highways and larger state roads, as well as away from most towns, I want to be pretty far out into a rural mountain setting. I know many folks think they’ll just head to the mountains after an attack, but without a specific destination, good training, and or lots of supplies the average Joe Q. Citizen won’t last long, hell I’ve lived in hurricane prone areas most my life and most the normal folks I know still don’t have more than 3-5 days food on hand if that. So the likely threat as I see it is unprepared folks heading in mass towards the mountains, we’ll already be there and will maintain a small footprint, staying out of sight while maintaining security until the dust settles.
This is an over simplification and I apologize for that...it's the way I think being a simple fellow.
Strictly FWIW, the following websites are IMHO great references for living closer to the land. Good as/better then Mother Earth, Five Acres in Independence, Foxfire.
Countryside Magazine is not always easy to find in bookstores or mag racks. Lehmans has a "Non-Electric Catalog" that has a good selection of things. Lehmans geared more toward supporting Amish lifestyles. Countryside more toward supporting homesteading and/or living off the grid.
http://www.countrysidemag.com/
http://www.lehmans.com/
The Reaper
01-02-2010, 09:57
Wet Dog we're going to be limited to the east coast, using a piece of land in the Rocky Mountains would be problematic for vacation as well as retirement, and for a SHTF scenario the Rockies would be too far to do me or my family any good. Also the longer growing season near the Smoky mountains is another benefit of being at a lower altitude further south. You are correct in those areas, but for me it's not going to be feasible for my plans.
I am somewhat concerned by a mass migration, my thought was that I would need to be as self sufficient as possible, use OPSEC, and be well off the beaten path of highways and not visible from the turn off of the small paved public road my property will be off of. I don't think too many city folks fleeing a terrorist attack or pandemic will go wandering up dirt roads in the woods on the off chance of finding somewhere to hunker down. My thought is that they’ll likely head for smaller cities/towns where there are resources, eventually when those resources become scarce they may expand outward from those smaller cities, to towns and so on. In the event they do eventually make it to my doorstep and are determined to harm me and mine I'll have well established DFPs, good fields of fire and a 24/7 security plan in place. Hopefully it will not come to that, but better to have a plan than to rely on hope or luck.
I'm looking at staying away from the major corridors that I think that type of mass migration will follow, i.e. major highways and larger state roads, as well as away from most towns, I want to be pretty far out into a rural mountain setting. I know many folks think they’ll just head to the mountains after an attack, but without a specific destination, good training, and or lots of supplies the average Joe Q. Citizen won’t last long, hell I’ve lived in hurricane prone areas most my life and most the normal folks I know still don’t have more than 3-5 days food on hand if that. So the likely threat as I see it is unprepared folks heading in mass towards the mountains, we’ll already be there and will maintain a small footprint, staying out of sight while maintaining security until the dust settles.
Anyone who hasn't read "One Second After" needs to get a copy ASAP.
Post-disaster population migration may surprise you.
IIRC, a small but of that happened after Katrina.
TR
Fun in the Mud - you have to be prepared.
Had some fun in the mud this morning.
Outcome? A dirty e-tool and two muddy jackets. I think I'll add two 18" x 4 foot pieces of old carpet to the back of all my cars trunks.
.
An alternative to carpet would be a tube of chicken wire. The wire provides great traction and can be cut and shaped to act as a leg or arm splint in event of a medical emergency. Lots of other uses, light and cheap.
The Reaper
01-02-2010, 10:35
Call me strange, but my trunk already has too much junk in it to add a couple of big pieces of carpet or a roll of chicken wire to explain to the gate guards.
Why not just use the front floormats, and clean them when you are done? Cheaper, heavier duty, and easier to clean than jackets.
TR
Defender968
01-02-2010, 10:37
Anyone who hasn't read "One Second After" needs to get a copy ASAP.
Post-disaster population migration may surprise you.
IIRC, a small but of that happened after Katrina.
TR
Copy that TR, it's on my Amazon wish list, will be ordering today.
GratefulCitizen
01-02-2010, 16:41
Fun in the Mud - you have to be prepared.
Growing up in western Colorado, and now driving for a living in northern Arizona, I have only ever chained up one tire for snow (as a temporary precautionary measure).
-Just once ever-
For mud, I'll mount tire chains.
It works better than anything else.
(We are issued plastic "traction strip plates" at UPS...they sort of work.)
Delt with the mud around Kanab, Utah quite frequently in UPS trucks.
Never drive on wet ground that has been worked (plowed or trenched for agri reasons or power lines, etc.).
If you do drive on such ground, keep the number to the towing company handy.
Never drive on wet ground that has been worked (plowed or trenched for agri reasons or power lines, etc.).
If you do drive on such ground, keep the number to the towing company handy.
Even farm tractors get stuck in this type of soil. One of many learned high school lessons.
Cougar6zulu
01-03-2010, 09:02
Sir, this is good stuff and straight to the point. Having learned in my early teens to deal with hurricanes, I have always had a 'loose throw together' plan. After reading your post i will definitely lay out a better plan. Risk mitigation after the event is paramount. I believe people will benefit from this information.
This might be slightly off topic but did anyone see After Armageddon on the History channel? I thought I was oddly paranoid but programs like this make me wonder how many other people are worried about preparedness.
I have been watching all week. Tonight is Interesting...
:munchin
This is one thing that my father had always pressed hard- to plan ahead. Right now I am the only individual in my hall of 250-plus students who has an emergency kit. Others may think of it as a waste of space, but when push comes to shove there wont be any questions who is prepared ;)
Of course, emergency alcohol is a must. Or maybe thats just me?...
Is in emergency situations that the old addage about teaching a man to fish becomes the difference between life and death.
Defender968
01-06-2010, 20:34
This might be slightly off topic but did anyone see After Armageddon on the History channel? I thought I was oddly paranoid but programs like this make me wonder how many other people are worried about preparedness.
I did, these shows are coming on more and more, and you know the SHTF scenario has come up a lot in my AO in the past 12 months and often without me bringing it up, I just got off the phone with a buddy who hadn't really thought about it before I talked to him about it, and he told me several folks he knows brought it up to him as well, and these were not survivalist types, in fact he said he was initially surprised they were thinking about it....so just because we're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get us... :) I’d rather be prepared and never need my preparations, than to be caught with my pants down.
Just my.02
ZooKeeper
01-16-2010, 17:39
Anyone who hasn't read "One Second After" needs to get a copy ASAP.
I have just a few more pages to go in this book & it has been an eye opener. Many unknowns I had not thought of...continue to think, observe, plan.
armymom1228
01-16-2010, 20:49
There is prepared in a kit bag and prepared at home. This post is being prepared at home for warmth. Living in the mountains, power does go out. It has been out here for up to 2 weeks in a bad snow storm. Most fireplaces look pretty but do little to heat.
MMO is to suggest that your home have a simple solution like a radiant heat stove/oven. I looked for a German one but could only get Finnish in this area -- Tulikivi. Stoking it for 2-4 hours keeps the house warm for 24. Many people have Franklin stoves which are great while burning, but not practical to keep stoked all night. Tulikivis weigh over 5000 lbs and heat up soap stone channels to keep the heat radiating for maximum time.
Of course, I should point out, have some wood cut -- even if you are surrounded by woods. It needs to dry. Devil is in the details.
If trying to stay warm out of doors, and you have a number of people, warmest night I ever spent was -4 F outside in a para-tepee with 7 fellow winter survival candidates. So if you have an old parachute, or something that makes a good tent (maybe a tent) and friends, it works.
Merry Christmas.
The problem with most fireplaces is that they are on the outside wall. To be truly effect both while there is a fire and later as a passive heat source they need to be inside the house completely on an interior wall. Heat the bricks and when you bank the fire at night the bricks/rocks continue to give out heat. Add a 'heatalator' and you can have more hot air coming from the fireplace front and sides.
It is possible to use a Franklin type stove to heat and still keep passive heat afterward by using bricks. Think outside the box, consider how to get around the problem and it will come to you.
To be truly effect both while there is a fire and later as a passive heat source they need to be inside the house completely on an interior wall.
An important addition to this is- With a fresh air inlet.
armymom1228
01-21-2010, 14:56
An important addition to this is- With a fresh air inlet.
yep
armymom1228
01-24-2010, 22:21
I will post this here and "survial scenario".
Was watching a news channel that shall remained unamed and there was this lady who was talking about an interesting product is used to help malnourished children. A peanut based paste, that is easily squeezed out.
Here is the wiki on Plumpy'nut[/ur]
the website for the company that makes it, [url=http://www.nutriset.fr/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&lang=en&id=30]Nurtiset (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plumpy'nut)
I could see using this for other purposes, like survival rations. It contains pretty much all you need.
An alternate produce is, Unimix (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unimix)
Unimix, however, has to be cooked. In a survival scenario, plumpy'nut would work better. No fire to draw attention and all that.
The Reaper
01-25-2010, 06:31
Anyone making any changes to their plan based on what is going on in Haiti?
Like easily accessible heavy hand tools for breaking/moving rubble?
TR
Like easily accessible heavy hand tools for breaking/moving rubble?I'm not sure how practical that would be. To cover all the bases, there'd have to be something in nearly every room. I'm single and could possibly get away with it, but most women aren't going to appreciate the home decor resembling the hardware department at Sears.
I'm thinking if I ever wind up living in an earthquake zone again, I might live in a yurt or some other tent-like structure...and in a resort area like Haiti, it might be the ticket, using such a structure as a cabin/ bungalow...
Anyone making any changes to their plan based on what is going on in Haiti?
Like easily accessible heavy hand tools for breaking/moving rubble?
TR
I think about this on a regular basis. We don't have earth quakes nor do we have volcanoes, but we get hurricanes.
Our house was built to the 150 MPH standard of 1995-97 vintage. It covers the roof, walls, & columns. They have improved the standard, with the addition of wind loading the underside of the house. There is some thought that the floor can be sucked out from under a house on stills.
I can't substantiate that, but on both H Georges & Wilma, our soffits were sucked out(30-40%) and needed replacement. For cooling, our soffit overlaps the house by 4 ft. The last storm I did a complete replace with hardy-board. We had the vinyl shiite..
When we move,, and if we build, I will use the 150 wind load limits no matter where we live. The up-front expense off-sets any after the fact preparations.
If we don't build, I will plan based on what we buy. BUT I will buy with disasters in mind, to include terrain structure placement.
If,, If I get my required 5 acres,, I will have a mini-barn with a man-cave and gear...
My $00.0002
armymom1228
01-25-2010, 09:24
I'm not sure how practical that would be. To cover all the bases, there'd have to be something in nearly every room. I'm single and could possibly get away with it, but most women aren't going to appreciate the home decor resembling the hardware department at Sears.
I'm thinking if I ever wind up living in an earthquake zone again, I might live in a yurt or some other tent-like structure...and in a resort area like Haiti, it might be the ticket, using such a structure as a cabin/ bungalow...
The japanese have this earthquake thing down pretty good. Look at thier structures and building practices.
I'm not sure how practical that would be. To cover all the bases, there'd have to be something in nearly every room.
We have a 3' crow bar next to every bed here in earthquake country. In every large quake I've been in there's a bit of a warning just before it hits full force and it takes a few seconds before real shaking and damage starts, so, If you can keep you balance, you can move to or near a bedroom.
Pat
The Reaper
01-25-2010, 20:44
I was thinking more along the lines of keeping the gear in a couple of sturdy places (in case one is inaccessible in the aftermath) to start digging out family members. Axe, maul, sledge, pry bar, pinch bar, come-along, Hi-Lift jack, straps, chains, pulleys, rope, chainsaw, quickie saw, you get the idea. Maybe a stethoscope, if you are in quake country.
In the vehicle would be a good alternate place for some of the tools.
Along with an aid bag or two, and everyone knows where they are/how to use them. Our kids are not rescue pros, but I would rather for them to immediately start trying to dig me out after a big one than to wait a week or more. Also, even if you get them out, they will probably need splinting or wound treatment.
We recently built our home and the subs were always commenting about my over-engineering and over-building. I just asked them if they wanted to work on it, or not. Seems like all of them did. It is pretty solid, with lots of anchors, straps, and tie-downs. I agree, a retrofit is much more expensive than good planning and prep work.
TR
...if you are in quake country.FWIW, after the 1994 Northridge earthquake, a major point of emphasis in the ensuing 'be prepared' discussions was to have handy the tool for shutting off the gas line going into a residence. (Out here, a specific tool--designed to keep dolts like me from getting confused--was recommended.)
A secondary point of emphasis was to have a flashlight very close at hand (i.e. in one's bed) so that if an earthquake struck during the evening one might avoid stepping on something sharp and jagged while seeking safety during the temblor itself.
incarcerated
01-26-2010, 00:01
In every large quake I've been in there's a bit of a warning just before it hits full force and it takes a few seconds before real shaking and damage starts, so, If you can keep you balance, you can move to or near a bedroom.
Pat
What's neat if you're outdoors is that the birds will go quiet just before one comes through. Friends who have happened to be looking out an upstairs window report that you can see the thing coming, like a ripple.
We're way overdue.
ZonieDiver
01-26-2010, 04:51
FWIW, after the 1994 Northridge earthquake, a major point of emphasis in the ensuing 'be prepared' discussions was to have handy the tool for shutting off the gas line going into a residence.
I lived in St. Louis, MO for a time (hell on earth :D), and attended an earthquake awareness seminar for my children's school. It was suggested that the specific tool be "wired" to the pipe beside the shut-off valve so you didn't have to look for it, or go get it - IT WAS THERE!
When and if the New Madrid Fault line spring to life again, the St. Louee Mizzou-eee area could be in for a world of hurt. Office buildings in that area are not built to CA earthquake standards, and the death/injury projections vary widely by the time of day that the quake occurs. IF during working hours - astronomical. At night, when people are in homes, not nearly as bad.
I lived in St. Louis, MO for a time (hell on earth :D), and attended an earthquake awareness seminar for my children's school. It was suggested that the specific tool be "wired" to the pipe beside the shut-off valve so you didn't have to look for it, or go get it - IT WAS THERE!
When and if the New Madrid Fault line spring to life again, the St. Louee Mizzou-eee area could be in for a world of hurt. Office buildings in that area are not built to CA earthquake standards, and the death/injury projections vary widely by the time of day that the quake occurs. IF during working hours - astronomical. At night, when people are in homes, not nearly as bad.ZonieDiver--
We in L.A. received that guidance as well.
I still cannot believe what I thought I saw the walls doing in 1994.:confused: It seemed as if a giant was using the house as an accordion. In my disbelief, I groped stupidly at what I'd read about naval warfare in the age of sail. Of how the wooden hulls of ships would, at times, bend obscenely yet not break from the impact of cannon balls.
(It did not help my state of mind that during that earthquake, memories of the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake came flooding back--unbidden, unwelcome, unrelenting.:eek:)
Well into 1995, when a heavy truck would rumble down a street, you'd see Angelenos tighten their jaws and then shoot each other looks of relief when they realized what had made the ground shake.:)
IMO, SoCal's collective response to Haiti speaks not only to our best qualities as Americans but also the deep-rooted understanding that, at any moment, we can be the ones crying out from the ruins.
ZooKeeper
01-30-2010, 20:38
I lived in St. Louis, MO for a time (hell on earth :D), and attended an earthquake awareness seminar for my children's school. It was suggested that the specific tool be "wired" to the pipe beside the shut-off valve so you didn't have to look for it, or go get it - IT WAS THERE!
When and if the New Madrid Fault line spring to life again, the St. Louee Mizzou-eee area could be in for a world of hurt. Office buildings in that area are not built to CA earthquake standards, and the death/injury projections vary widely by the time of day that the quake occurs. IF during working hours - astronomical. At night, when people are in homes, not nearly as bad.
I often think about this as I live on the West side of the Missouri river & drive into STL. I'm on the 2nd floor of a 3 story building, but I'm more worried about getting back across the river if I'm at work.
bandycpa
02-01-2010, 13:23
It's a ways off, but it might be worth putting this on the calendar.
Bandy
http://www.tax.virginia.gov/site.cfm?alias=IndWhatsNew
Sales Tax Holidays 2010
May 24-30, 2010: -- Hurricane Preparedness Equipment. During this seven-day period, purchases of items designated by the Department of Taxation as hurricane preparedness equipment, including portable generators, will be exempt from the Virginia sales tax. Portable generators must be priced at $1,000 or less, and other eligible items must be priced at $60 or less for each item.
http://www.tax.virginia.gov/site.cfm?alias=HurricanePreparednessEquipmentHolid ay
May Sales Tax Holiday: Hurricane and Emergency Preparedness Equipment
When: Monday, May 25, 2009 through Sunday, May 31, 2009
What's Exempt: During this seven-day period, purchases of certain supplies and equipment needed for hurricane preparedness will be exempt from sales tax. Retailers may also choose to absorb the tax on other items during the holiday period, but they are responsible for paying the tax on those items to the Department of Taxation.
Other Information:
* Guidelines(PDF 44.1Kb)
* List of Exempt Products(PDF 28.6Kb)
* Frequently Asked Questions
* Sales Tax Holiday Information Center
Dozer523
02-01-2010, 14:33
The Little Dude has two parakeets. That live in a huge cage, NO CLUE where the My Reason For Living and Bright Center on My Universe found this monstrosity. Little Dude had it in his room. But LD is one of those annoying "Good Pet Owners" who actually read up on his charges (Danny and Sunshine Jr). And he knows they need to be stimulated and I won't buy him (I mean the birds) a flat screen TV for his room. I also will not maintain the temperature of an otherwise unoccupied portion of the house at 70 degrees while we are at school and work (Which might explain the "jr" part of the yellow one's name).
Right now the plan is they will move downstairs to the Family Room (where the TV is). But I can't just set this aviary estate on the floor.
"Dog will get them"
"Will not, dog does not have opposable thumbs"
"Get a stand"
"More money thrown at $15.00 birds?"
"It's for Little Dude"
"Well, okay but it better turn out better then when BCMU had the mice"
"I'm sure they were very happy in the wild"
"Some thing was . . . probably a snake"
"GET THE STAND"
"Right"
"Go to the Good Will first"
"Awwwwwwwwwwww"
Which brings me to this thread that I have been reading with great interest.
I found an old manual (foot powered) sewing machine. In working order. It was built by the Eldridge Company. Looks like it was probably early 1900's. The cabinet looks like oak and except for one cracked board is fully functional. In one of the drawers there was a medicine bottle (dated 2-6-71) containing a dozen needles, a cable that attaches to the foot pedal and the machine and a box of "attachments" that appear to afix to the machine where the needle operates. Once the weather gets better and we can work in the garage, we'll repair and refinish the cabinet. And then I'll go through this whole conversation again!
BUT! Until then, this is where the bird's cage will sit.
Now a manual sewing machine seems to be like a good thing to have if you can spare the weight and the cube and will be setting up a permanent base.
Goodwill rocks.
NoRoadtrippin
02-03-2010, 15:41
I just got in a new link in my survival preparations today. Got in an Eton FR1000 in the American Red Cross Edition scheme.
Last week, www.woot.com had their semi-monthly Woot Off! in which they transition from one item a day to selling another item as soon as the current one sells out. If you have never been to the woot! familyof sites, I highly recommend it. The Woot Offs are a great way to waste a couple days looking for one item you can use amongst many that are silly or redundant.
Ok on to the point, I had been looking for this Eton for awhile and my fiancee and I had even registered for it at REI. Over there, it retails for $100. I got it for $35 shipped from Woot!
Features include:
* 22 GMRS (General Mobile Radio System)/FRS (Family Radio System) channels
* 121 privacy codes (38 CTCSS / 83 DCS)
* AM/FM receiver
* VOX (Voice operated transmission)
* NOAA weather radio and NOAA weather alert
* Siren and Flashlight
* Can be powered from four different sources:
o Rechargeable Ni-MH battery
o Dynamo crank alone
o 4 “AA” batteries
o AC Adapter (included)
* Cell-phone charging jack
First impressions are that it is a very handy piece of gear. The housing and knobs all seem very sturdy. The antenna is attached with a legitimate piece of metal and doesn't look like it will break off too easily. It does fold down when not in use.
The flashing lights are bright, the radio is loud and reception seems good both on FM and WX. I haven't tried out the twp-way radio yet. The emergency siren is also very loud. It sent the cats running for sure.
The backside of the radio has a large handle that runs the full length of the body. It would certainly make using the flashlight and such easier.
You can see from the features, that it runs on hand cranked power, a rechargable Ni-MH pack, 4 AAs or the AC adapter. The nice feature I noticed here is that they all integrate well. The battery compartment holds the rechargeable pack and the AAs at the same time. They sit next to each rather than say having to keep up with the rechargeable whenever you take it out to use the AA option. That seems pretty smart to me. One less thing to worry about in an emergency. It also of course gives the ability to maintain use even when your AAs are dead or being switched for new ones. Or you can crank to charge the batt pack while using the power from your AAs at any given moment.
It can be seen here: http://www.etoncorp.com/product_card/?p_ProductDbId=344790
Anyone else have experience with these or similar? Hopefully this is helpful for others...
The Reaper
02-03-2010, 19:47
Anyone have any weather related preparedness issues to talk about?
I learned that a good gas fireplace will put out enough heat to keep most of a large house warm, even with high ceilings.
Also, a gravel driveway will ice up almost as fast as a paved one, and can take several days to thaw.
TR
NoRoadtrippin
02-03-2010, 20:28
Also, a gravel driveway will ice up almost as fast as a paved one, and can take several days to thaw.
TR
I have definitely found out about this where we are living in AR. Kids have been out of school all this week while the majority of roads have all been fine. Supposedly there are mysterious gravel ones out in the county that keep the rest of us from getting on with the week since they don't melt nearly as quickly.
Weather I am planning for here primarily focuses on tornado season and ice storms. Last year's ice left parts of the county out of power for 2-3 weeks. It definitely drove home the idea that it doesn't take any sort of dramatic disaster to cause long term damage. We only got ice for maybe a day, but it stayed cold all week and plunged northern AR and much of MO into the dark ages for quite awhile.
One thing I need to add to my kit is the plastic sheeting mentioned earlier in this thread. Definitely a good thought for keeping the roof viable if a tornado comes through.
craigepo
02-03-2010, 21:43
A lesson from our last big ice storm in southern Missouri---Ventless gas heaters are relatively inexpensive, use no electricity to operate, are easy to hook up, and put out a lot of heat. Smaller, portable sizes can run off a 5 gallon propane tank(same one a grill uses).
Lesson learned at the same time: 1)pellet stoves are great, as long as you have electricity; 2)always have a well-functioning chainsaw with >1 sharp blade(icy tree limbs = downed power lines and closed roads); 3)tractors (or nearby friends that own tractors) are invaluable for a lot of purposes, including making electricity.
Lesson learned a couple of weeks ago---blower function on a shopvac works well in thawing frozen water lines if you have a way for it to inhale >32degree air.
The Reaper
02-03-2010, 21:46
A lesson from our last big ice storm in southern Missouri---Ventless gas heaters are relatively inexpensive, use no electricity to operate, are easy to hook up, and put out a lot of heat. Smaller, portable sizes can run off a 5 gallon propane tank(same one a grill uses).
Lesson learned at the same time: 1)pellet stoves are great, as long as you have electricity; 2)always have a well-functioning chainsaw with >1 sharp blade(icy tree limbs = downed power lines and closed roads); 3)tractors (or nearby friends that own tractors) are invaluable for a lot of purposes, including making electricity.
Lesson learned a couple of weeks ago---blower function on a shopvac works well in thawing frozen water lines if you have a way for it to inhale >32degree air.
Judge:
Good info.
A 500 gallon underground tank with several drops in the house and converter lines will provide heat for a lot longer, and for less money to boot.
Why not just use a blow dryer, if you have power for the Shop-Vac?
TR
Dozer523
02-05-2010, 11:51
A lesson from our last big ice storm in southern Missouri---. we went through an ice storm in Spokane back in '95 or '97. It sucked. sub zero weather and power out for days. We had a gas fireplace in the small living room. We sealed off the LR with insulated truck blankets (like moving vans use) and moved the king mattress onto the floor. The three of us stayed there. Pretty toasty as in sweaters. Since the water heater was gas we had hot water. Maxed the temerature and was able to use it straigt out of the tap for instant soup, coffee, and coco , not so great - but close - for ramen. Did make the mistake of taking a hot shower. It felt great but the condensation practically froze to the walls.
Why not just use a blow dryer, if you have power for the Shop-Vac?
Heat guns are made for serious use, correct? Anyone know if it could work for continuous heating? I can think of a few places on relatives places it would be nice to shoot above freezing air for long periods.
armymom1228
02-05-2010, 13:33
Heat guns are made for serious use, correct? Anyone know if it could work for continuous heating? I can think of a few places on relatives places it would be nice to shoot above freezing air for long periods.
Quality heat guns will, just like a hair dryer, overheat and shut off..not to menition the heat produced could caught something to melt, or catch fire.
I use them all the time removing paint and varnish. Take it from me, you can get 3rd degree burns from them.
I would think someone would have the smarts to use heat tape wrapped around pipes. Barring being able to do that keeping the faucet dripping would work as well. I lived aboard last winter in Baltimore Harbor. My boat and the boats above me on the docks all had water. Our lines, even in the single digit weather the hoases that had to come from the dock to the water inlet never froze because we kept the faucets on slow flow.
AM
craigepo
02-05-2010, 14:34
"Why not just use a blow dryer, if you have power for the Shop-Vac?"
The shop-vac gave me a greater stand-off distance for hard to reach sections of pipe, and I already had my suit on.
armymom1228
02-06-2010, 00:46
"Why not just use a blow dryer, if you have power for the Shop-Vac?"
The shop-vac gave me a greater stand-off distance for hard to reach sections of pipe, and I already had my suit on.
heat tape? or was the pipe inaccessible to apply the tape?
armymom1228
02-09-2010, 10:01
I was watching the Weather Channel last night. They were doing things that one could do to survive in an emergency situation. I thought I would add the 'falling thru the ice" part.
Guy conveniently had a pair of screw drivers around his neck and used them to pull himself out of the water and onto the hard ice like a pair of ice picks. Showed him deliberately falling back in and then getting out again without the ice picks/screwdrivers. He pulled himself up on the ice sheet as far as he could, then he continued to lay flat and pull himself along the thinner ice until he got to stable ice and then walked off the ice.
By then he was hypothermic, as evidenced by the slow movements and mumbling. Once he was out of the wet clothes into dry. He used plastic bags, grocery sacks over the socks and stuck around his feet in his shoes and a big garbage bag over he head and around his body over his clothes and under his down coat. Commentator said it would help keep body heat in. They had him do jumping jacks to help create body heat. He also drank hot cocoa, not to warm him up but for the sugar that would rapidly get into his body and, again, create body heat.
Amazing how such simple things can save your life.. plastic grocery sacks, a black plastic garbage bag, a couple of screwdrivers and some sugar. I think you could put all of that in a gallon ziploc bag and stuff behind a truck/car seat.
Added to the usual sleeping bag, gallon of water and tools behind the truck seat.
In regards to frozen piping.
If your house is plumbed in copper tube, PEX, or CTS-CPVC a handy item to have around are Sharkbite fittings. They will generally work (in a pinch) on Grey PB - Polybutylene as well but it is not warrantied or advised for PB.
http://www.cashacme.com/prod_sharkbite_pushfit_products.php
And one of these that will get you in nearly any confined area:
http://www.drainbrain.com/specialties/autocut.html
Dozer523
02-09-2010, 12:40
If you want to get in the right mind-set for winter survival thought, read Jack London's To Build A Fire
http://www.jacklondons.net/Media/to_build_a_fire_print_ver.html
"It was not because he was long used to it. He was a new-comer in the land, a chechaquo, and this was his first winter. The trouble with him was that he was without imagination. He was quick and alert in the things of life, but only in the things, and not in the significances."
dadof18x'er
02-09-2010, 13:23
[QUOTE=dadof18x'er;290886]
for those interested we have now started using this filter and I am really
impressed with its simplicity. The water tastes good and according to the
specs it leaves the desirable minerals.
after 4 months we couldn't be happier with this filter. AND it's EMP proof:D
My apologies if this has been covered -- but should ease of field stripping and continued maintenance (maybe without all the right tools) be a factor in choosing a handgun for the sorts of scenarios discussed in this thread? If so, does anyone have recommendations of handguns that can be very easily maintained and like to keep performing after a lot of abuse?
(by ryanr) If so, does anyone have recommendations of handguns that can be very easily maintained and like to keep performing after a lot of abuse?
First of all, use the search function and read. FWIW, I'm no expert and you may (bank on it) get a lot of various opinions, but here's mine: Colt, 1911A1, .45 ACP, Automatic. Was dissatisfied with Remington, and some Springfields re: replacement parts. Some parts looked as if they'd been cast instead of milled, and they broke. Colts held up.
(I have no experience with Glocks or any of the other newer autos, so take this for what it's worth. Like noted above, use the search function. You'll get a whole bunch of expert opinions.)
Keep shopping (and reading), good luck, and shoot straight.
Edit Note: Type-O's.
If so, does anyone have recommendations of handguns that can be very easily maintained and like to keep performing after a lot of abuse?
You'll get a ton of opinions -
Glock, Springfield XD's, HK USP are all very reliable and will stand up to a ton of abuse under some of the harshest conditions.
Also some basic maintenance is a great way to keep your gun running.
My apologies if this has been covered -- but should ease of field stripping and continued maintenance (maybe without all the right tools) be a factor in choosing a handgun for the sorts of scenarios discussed in this thread? If so, does anyone have recommendations of handguns that can be very easily maintained and like to keep performing after a lot of abuse?
Is having an auto important? Consider also, revolvers, much easier to train young'ns, wives and GFs. They also tend to conserve ammo, and easy to maintain under tough field conditions. With an older model SW, .357, I've used bird shot shells. Hell on rifling and barrels, but equally tough on birds, snakes and small animals. Something to consider in a survival scenario.
First of all, use the search function and read.
I've been reading all of the excellent opinions in the handgun threads -- and they're very helpful. I was unable, most likely due to my own failings, to find opinions directly relating to longevity when abused and repaired by complete beginners, with parts scavenged and such. I'm picturing a scenario where society has broken down to the point that I have to do any and all maintenance myself, or worse -- my wife or son has to do it.
You'll get a ton of opinions -
Glock, Springfield XD's, HK USP are all very reliable and will stand up to a ton of abuse under some of the harshest conditions.
Also some basic maintenance is a great way to keep your gun running.
Thank you, much appreciated. I read on some gun forum (which I'm currently failing to locate and link) that USPs can be more difficult to detail strip with minimal tools, and may require more specialized parts -- is that accurate at all?
Would a revolver be a good backup option, for the simplicity of the design and maintenance? Edit: WD posted as I was typing this post. :p
Is having an auto important? Consider also, revolvers, much easier to train young'ns, wives and GFs. They also tend to conserve ammo, and easy to maintain under tough field conditions. With an older model SW, .357, I've used bird shot shells. Hell on rifling and barrels, but equally tough on birds, snakes and small animals. Something to consider in a survival scenario.
I think I'll definitely have one in the kit for this reason, thank you for the advice. Much appreciated.
You also need to realize that all things mechanical will fail at some point. Learn primative weapons and use them. Bow/arrow, knife/sword, rock/sling, spear, trapping and fishing. Oh, and learn how to start a fire and build a shelter.
Do not fear the learning curve, embrace it. 500,000 years of killing is in your DNA.
I was unable, most likely due to my own failings, to find opinions directly relating to longevity when abused and repaired by complete beginners, with parts scavenged and such. I'm picturing a scenario where society has broken down to the point that I have to do any and all maintenance myself, or worse -- my wife or son has to do it.
Would a revolver be a good backup option, for the simplicity of the design and maintenance?
After armageddon weapons will not stop working. What will happen over time(20 yrs) will be that small cottage industries will evolve to sell/build/fix tools. Weapons being a primary tool in a survival scenario.
If you read about the weapons dealers & traders in the middle East, you will quickly see how a survivalist community operates. With some very basic tools and manufacturing know-how you can build anything.
Learning to maintain your tools and building a spare parts inventory is only the beginning. You need AMMO. Again, this is where the cottage industry will augment individuals that can or won't help themselves.
To your 2nd question:
Revolvers can be a back-up or primary. The only difference is how fast you reload while standing on top of the parapet defending your homestead from the vast hordes of zombies and Democrats..
For the here and now, Revolvers fair better at abuse than semi-auto pistols. BUT why abuse a tool that can last for a life time,, with a small amount of care??
Some will be prepared,, Others won't...
My $00.0003
The Reaper
02-10-2010, 19:23
I know very few people who keep enough ammo on hand to actually wear out or break a weapon through use.
TR
http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90&Item
This is pretty interesting "abuse" done to a Glock 21. He ran 15K+ rounds w/out cleaning... He dropped it out of an airplane, shot it with a .22, buried it in all types of dirt/sand/etc, salt water soak, ..
http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90&Item
This is pretty interesting "abuse" done to a Glock 21. He ran 15K+ rounds w/out cleaning... He dropped it out of an airplane, shoot it with a .22, buried it in all types of dirt/sand/etc, salt water soak, ..
Wow. I'm gonna go ahead and stop worrying about this particular issue; I clearly grossly underestimated the durability of firearms. :eek:
The Reaper
02-10-2010, 20:31
A guy did the same with a FAL.
Had over 15,000 rounds without cleaning before it gave him any problems.
TR
Had over 15,000 rounds without cleaning before it gave him any problems.
That a whole lot o' zombies!
Thank you, much appreciated. I read on some gun forum (which I'm currently failing to locate and link) that USPs can be more difficult to detail strip with minimal tools, and may require more specialized parts -- is that accurate at all?
You can clean what needs cleaning on a USP with a toothbrush, some oil, and the parts it breaks down into.
I've done it before using a hotel supplied toothbrush and CLP.
I'd be interested to read the "link" you're misplacing.
armymom1228
02-11-2010, 12:27
Speaking of survival guns. Interesting website, survival guns. (http://www.survivalblog.com/survivalguns.html)
It looks a little far out, but the comments on guns seem to be worth reading.
I have given some thought lately, about learning gunsmithing for no particular reason than it interests me. It seems something worth having in the skills bank for possible future use. :cool:
Good gouge re: survival guns, AM. Thanks!
An interesting product for bulk water storage. I'm building a new house and am considering a place for 2 to 4 of these in my garage.
http://incaseof.ca/supertanker.htm#dealers
A bit of a necropost here, I realize. I was looking at these tanks earlier, then later did some research on earthquake preparedness, and had a lightbulb moment.
If you install any water tanks like these and live in a seismic zone, be sure you strap them very securely to a good, strong wall.
Each one of the large tanks weighs 2000 lbs, and they have a very small footprint relative to the weight distribution. They are going to want to fall over if the ground starts moving.
The Reaper
03-13-2010, 19:42
One good water storage solution I have used is 275 gallon food grade industrial totes.
They take up a bit of space, the footprint is roughly 48"x40", maybe 40" tall, but it is hard to find a way to pack water in more tightly. I put mine in my garage, you could put them outside, but the weather and sunlight will cause algae and other undesirables to grow in them more quickly. Remember that each one weighs more than 2,200 pounds when filled, so it is not for apartment storage. It has a metal tube cage around a poly bladder, so you can stack them up to three high, it has a port 6" or so on top and a 2" NPT ball valve on the bottom. You can sometimes find them in your area on Craigslist, soft drink and other food companies use them. I would make absolutely sure what was in them previously, and rinse them thoroughly regardless. If I was going to keep them filled, I would put in an appropriate amount of chlorine and then dump and refill them at least annually, sooner if it starts showing signs of bacteria growth.
Best thing is that they usually run less than $100 each.
HTH.
TR
If you have children in schools, you need to know the schools' plan for several situations, a few of which are listed here:
If a lockdown extends past the end of school, how the school will communicate that and other information to you.
How and when the school will release students in a lockdown that goes past normal school hours.
In the event of school evacuation, where the good weather evacuation location is;
where the inclement weather evacuation location is;
and where the remote evacuation locations are.
I (and the local School District) got caught flatfooted a couple of weeks ago when a hostage-taking bank robbery occurred at a bank essentially across the street from my kids school. The bad guys fled on foot, and the school was locked down until just a little after school normally lets out.
My wife was unable to make contact with the school to find out if the children were being released because every other parent was trying to call as well, and the school only has a few phone lines.
I was out of town, but involved by phone as the bank is close to my business, which also went on a lockdown. My wife was able to pick up our children 1/2 hour late as the school ended the lockdown. It could have been hours before the kids were released, however, depending on the circumstances.
As much contingency planning as I have done, I had never thought through these possibilities.
To aid the school in their after-action debriefing, I called the Superintendent, and found out the school's contingency plans for non-threatening lockdowns, threatening lockdowns, and evacuations.
My call made the Superintendent realize that the district had not given thought to advance briefings of parents regarding these issues and also had no plan for communications to parents during an incident. They are now looking at telling parents how lockdowns after hours and evacuations will be handled, as well as possibly adding info to the website and making cell phone broadcast texts during an incident.
The Superintendent thought that information should go on the school's websites and go in the school handbook for next year. I suggested that it might be wiser to provide that information to parents only, and not disseminate it widely so it is easier for bad guys to find it out. He then agreed with me.
Should a city-wide or larger power failure occur, there won't be any access to the internet or texts on the phone. Most parents currently would have no idea where their children would be if the school were evacuated to a remote location. I now know where my children will likely be should there be an evacuation during a commo failure.
regular guy
04-21-2010, 06:54
I would like to thank TR, and all of the other very wise contributors to this post for a very enlightening read. Almost 4 hours of reading along with note taking and I am finished to date. I look forward to more reading.
If washing clothing was discussed in the thread, my apologies. I see where the topic was brought up, but I can't find where it was discussed. I skimmed through the thread, searched on site, and did a google forum search for "wash clothes", "outhouse","laundry" "washboard" and other permutations.
If it was discussed, does anyone know the page?
If it wasn't discussed, how do folks here figure on handling laundry and other similar sanitation issues in a crisis lasting long enough for your clothes to stay standing when you take them off? Does anyone have a washboard, tub, and an adequate quantity of soap and experience using it?
Defender968
05-02-2010, 10:03
If washing clothing was discussed in the thread, my apologies. I see where the topic was brought up, but I can't find where it was discussed. I skimmed through the thread, searched on site, and did a google forum search for "wash clothes", "outhouse","laundry" "washboard" and other permutations.
If it was discussed, does anyone know the page?
If it wasn't discussed, how do folks here figure on handling laundry and other similar sanitation issues in a crisis lasting long enough for your clothes to stay standing when you take them off? Does anyone have a washboard, tub, and an adequate quantity of soap and experience using it?
Clothes can be washed using a washboard which you can still get or which could be easily fabricated using scrap wood and aluminum or galvanized flashing if needed. If you've got somewhere to go/hold up a roll of aluminum and or galvanized flashing is a great supply to have on hand, it's easy to work with, inexpensive and can be used for lots of things. In a pinch however you could also use a bar of soap the old fashion way. Having a sufficient quantity of soap on hand (and access to clean water of course) to last the duration of the event is the big issue when it comes to disaster planning IMO. I currently have plenty of bar laundry soap (Fels Naptha) stockpiled, the bars last a long time, I've been using it for treating stains for years, my grandmother swears by it and so do I (it works like a champ, takes out ink, blood, you name it, it's saved more than a few pieces of clothes for me). I'm not sure how long a bar would last if I were using them to clean larger quantity of clothes, my best guess is that a bar (properly dried out) would last a family of four a month or so, obviously YMMV. On top of being very effective at cleaning clothes/taking out stains, 12 bars take up very little space and would provide a sufficient supply for several months at the very least.
I stocked up last time I was up north because it's a little tough to find in the south, but you can find online at the link below.
http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3006765&CAWELAID=143758942
For those who don't want to have to fabricate one, they still make washboards, and they're relatively inexpensive.
http://cox-dev.com/p-7343-clothes-washboard-12-12-in-x-24-12-in.aspx
......If it wasn't discussed, how do folks here figure on handling laundry and other similar sanitation issues in a crisis lasting long enough for your clothes to stay standing when you take them off?......
All depends on what facilities each person has and the amount of water available.
Old school was to place some cloths in a waterproof bag, add soap and a little water, twist the top shut, roll and shake a while, open, wring out, clean bag add freash water and repeat for the rinse cycle. Hang in the shade to dry.
Stains I could live with, just want to get the stink, dirt and salt out.
Costco has a good web-only deal if you're a member -- $60 off of their already good price, although the package includes <shudder> their eggs. Eighteen #10 cans for $279 while they last. Number 10 cans might be problematic for a small household because after opening they have to be consumed fairly quickly.
Link to Costco-Mountain House (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11539429&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&eCat=BC|3605&N=4040913&Mo=29&No=3&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=75277&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&topnav=#BVRRWidgetID)
From the page:
From the makers of Mountain House, Oregon Freeze Dry introduces NEW Easy Meals. All of the Easy Meal products are created with the same superior quality and taste you have enjoyed from Oregon Freeze Dry for over 40 years. Every Easy Meal item is fully cooked and then freeze-dried. Most all of the Easy Meal items just require water.
The Easy Meal package offers a mixed case of lunch and dinner entrée’s, breakfast entrée’s and fruit, and ingredients. Now you can have a quick hearty meal or vegetable wherever hot water is available. Easy Meals are shelf stable and a perfect solution for any emergency situation. In addition, Easy Meals are ideal for a family get-togethers, potlucks, group feeding or simply when you don’t have time to cook.
Shipment arrives in 1 bundle that contains 3 separate boxes
Total Servings: 302
Shelf Life: 25+ year if unopened (on all items)
Best if used by date printed on all cans
The Easy Meal package contains 18 #10 (gallon size) cans. See below for package contents:
Breakfast Case:
1 can of Scrambled Eggs with Ham & Red & Green Peppers (17 servings)
1 can of Breakfast Skillet (10 servings)
1 can of Granola with Milk & Blueberries (20 servings)
1 can of Scrambled Eggs with Bacon (16 servings)
1 can of Raw Egg Mix, Butter Flavor (50 servings) – Requires cooking
1 can of Sliced Strawberries (16 servings)
Entrée Case:
1 can of Lasagna with Meat Sauce (10 servings)
1 can of Pasta Primavera, Vegetarian (11 servings)
1 can of Beef Teriyaki with Rice (11 servings)
1 can of Beef Stroganoff with Noodles (10 servings)
1 can of Chicken Teriyaki with Rice (9 servings)
1 can of Chili Mac with Beef (10 servings)
Ingredient Case:
1 can of Cooked Diced Beef (15 servings)
1 can of Cooked Diced Chicken (14 servings)
1 can of Cooked Ground Beef (18 servings)
1 can of Garden Green Peas (23 servings)
1 can of Golden Sweet Whole Kernel Corn (22 servings)
1 can of Cut Green Beans (20 servings)
Costco has a good web-only deal if you're a member -- $60 off of their already good price, although the package includes <shudder> their eggs. Eighteen #10 cans for $279 while they last. Number 10 cans might be problematic for a small household because after opening they have to be consumed fairly quickly.
Link to Costco-Mountain House (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11539429&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&eCat=BC|3605&N=4040913&Mo=29&No=3&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=75277&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&topnav=#BVRRWidgetID)
From the page:
From the makers of Mountain House, Oregon Freeze Dry introduces NEW Easy Meals. All of the Easy Meal products are created with the same superior quality and taste you have enjoyed from Oregon Freeze Dry for over 40 years. Every Easy Meal item is fully cooked and then freeze-dried. Most all of the Easy Meal items just require water.
The Easy Meal package offers a mixed case of lunch and dinner entrée’s, breakfast entrée’s and fruit, and ingredients. Now you can have a quick hearty meal or vegetable wherever hot water is available. Easy Meals are shelf stable and a perfect solution for any emergency situation. In addition, Easy Meals are ideal for a family get-togethers, potlucks, group feeding or simply when you don’t have time to cook.
Shipment arrives in 1 bundle that contains 3 separate boxes
Total Servings: 302
Shelf Life: 25+ year if unopened (on all items)
Best if used by date printed on all cans
The Easy Meal package contains 18 #10 (gallon size) cans. See below for package contents:
Breakfast Case:
1 can of Scrambled Eggs with Ham & Red & Green Peppers (17 servings)
1 can of Breakfast Skillet (10 servings)
1 can of Granola with Milk & Blueberries (20 servings)
1 can of Scrambled Eggs with Bacon (16 servings)
1 can of Raw Egg Mix, Butter Flavor (50 servings) – Requires cooking
1 can of Sliced Strawberries (16 servings)
Entrée Case:
1 can of Lasagna with Meat Sauce (10 servings)
1 can of Pasta Primavera, Vegetarian (11 servings)
1 can of Beef Teriyaki with Rice (11 servings)
1 can of Beef Stroganoff with Noodles (10 servings)
1 can of Chicken Teriyaki with Rice (9 servings)
1 can of Chili Mac with Beef (10 servings)
Ingredient Case:
1 can of Cooked Diced Beef (15 servings)
1 can of Cooked Diced Chicken (14 servings)
1 can of Cooked Ground Beef (18 servings)
1 can of Garden Green Peas (23 servings)
1 can of Golden Sweet Whole Kernel Corn (22 servings)
1 can of Cut Green Beans (20 servings)
Just came home to find my order on my doorstep. Offer is still good until 10 October. Might order another if I can time the order to be delivered when the wife is not home...
Stingray
01-22-2011, 03:42
Bump.
At Freeze Dry Guy's website, under products, pay as you go Clubs, there is a good reasonably priced monthly option for stashing Mountain House.
Knuckledragger alert* I don't know how to link it without the copy/paste or I would insert it.
Sincerely,
Freeze Dry Guy (http://www.freezedryguy.net/FDGClubs/tabid/202/Default.aspx)
After watching the aftermath of the recent tornadoes, I would add hardhats.
Pat
TOMAHAWK9521
08-05-2011, 11:25
Well, I got caught up on this thread finally. I re-read it from the beginning and the only thing I can add is a couple of tools to carry in the vehicles.
One is a webbing knife like we used for airborne operations or carried on our kit. I have a Benchmade model in one of the overhead compartments so anyone in the truck can access it. I also have an Ontario Knife Company aviation crash axe in my truck. It's exactly like the ones you see in the C-130's, 141's, 17's, etc.
My reason for the axe was I could have used it years ago when I was coming home after guiding for the fall season. I came upon a small pickup lying on its side in the east-bound side of I-70, just west of the Eisenhower Tunnel. I was one of the first vehicles to get there and the FD was still enroute. The girl was stuck down in the cab and the passenger door was proving to be a problem to keep open while rescuers tried to pull her out. The only help I could provide was lashing the door open with a 120' that I was carrying so they could concentrate on helping the girl. When the FD showed up they said thanks to all for our efforts up to that point and then pretty much cut the truck open and pulled her out.
That incident made me think about the safety briefs we used to get from the air crews about using those axes to cut a hole in the side of the plane after a crash landing or some other SHTF situation. I figured one of those axes would make short work of a car/truck hood, window, windshield, or door in an emergency situation. I picked one up for about $60 and carry it in the truck always. A good modern tomahawk will also take any automobile apart as well but I try to match the right tool for the specific job.
Golf1echo
08-25-2011, 16:51
Might be timely to mention the FEMA studies that looked into why there tends to be traffic lock ups when Hurricane evacuations happen. They found during evacuations that the average family takes all their vehicles with them, a family of four may evacuate in four cars. If you plan on leaving probably better to do so as early as possible.
If you stay or return quickly have some good ice chests, lots of water min. 1gal/person/day, preferably more. It helps to have enough to help those who don't. It can sometimes help to have supplies for power crews when they get to your area ( like some good food and cold drinks) it might make the difference in how fast power is returned to your house or area. Tarps can save you thousands of dollars in damage if you can cover damaged roofs from subsequent rains and weather. You may benefit from some good bug netting. Stay safe.
Flooding in the northeast, storms in the southeast/coastal regions, fires in south central, power outages in southwest, failed ecomonies, failed/bankrupt states, high costs of fuel, unemployment stress, healthcare costs, green energy loans, ($500MM lost), a failed administration, an upcoming election, small town shooting,...
am I missing anything?
I've started a Risk Matrix in excel, but I cant hyperlink solar sun spot activity, a Mayan time stamp or jihadist extremists, elem schools not allowing the Pledge of Allegience or prayer.
Just spent all Wednesday night bailing water out of my basement, that never had a problem before. Water came in via draining areas. Was up for 27 hours.
Sub-pump working on AC, glad to have generator .
Moved 900+ gals throughout the night by using a wet/dry shop vac. Next day once Bass Pro opened up, got a 12 volt bilge pump, with automatic switch, one that is used in my bass boat. Its been on since yesterday, 9/8/11,
working like a camp and its 12 volts. Its keeping up with the water that is still coming in. Will plug with hydro-lock from Lowe's.
Point is the crap you come up with when push comes to shove....share.
AL
PS that two hurricanes to hit Maryland and the east-coast. Now the mold fight starts.... Be safe be ready
TOMAHAWK9521
09-09-2011, 22:08
I got this email from my little sister yesterday. I was pleasantly surprised that she and her family were so well prepared for this hurricane. I forgot that both she and her husband work in the insurance business-claims and adjustment. That might explain their forethought in preparation for the flooding disaster. Good on her!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello all! As you may or may not know, we've been in the direct path of the remnants of Tropical Storm (or whatever his designation is) Lee for the last 3 days. We have managed to stay dry and our 2 pumps in the basement have amazingly kept up with the 10 + inches of rain. although they are running non stop. Neighbors on both sides and several in our neighborhood have taken on water. Schools will be closed again tomorrow because many of the roads in our outer areas of our school district are flooded or washed out. The PA turnpike has been closed in both directions from Reading, PA to Harrisburg. Hershey and Hersheypark are under water. Two of the bison at the Hershey Zoo were actually drowning and had to be put down. We're waiting for the rivers and creeks to crest, some 12 feet over flood stage locally. We're away from any direct water threat, but our water and sewage treatment plants are under water and we are under a boil order and may lose water at anytime (Got showers in tonight ;D).
Anyway, we're fine as we can be and stocked up on bottled water and filled up the bathtubs just in case for the toilets and such. We're very fortunate to have come through this as well as we have so far. Just hope our luck keeps up, as the rain has been relentless and with all the rain we've already had in the last month, there's just really nowhere for it to go.
Ambush Master
09-09-2011, 22:25
PS that two hurricanes to hit Maryland and the east-coast. Now the mold fight starts.... Be safe be ready
Get a trigger sprayer that fits the large (1 qt) Hydrogen Peroxide Bottles and hose the area down. Mold HATES H2O2 and it's not as caustic as Clorox etc.!!
Good luck!
Martin
Get a trigger sprayer that fits the large (1 qt) Hydrogen Peroxide Bottles and hose the area down. Mold HATES H2O2 and it's not as caustic as Clorox etc.!!
Good luck!
Martin
Will do..Thanks
AL
Water still flowing....
mark46th
09-16-2011, 17:45
Wear safety glasses or some kind of eye protection while you are spraying... Some of these things are hell on mucuous membranes...
Badger52
09-22-2011, 12:52
Next day once Bass Pro opened up, got a 12 volt bilge pump, with automatic switch, one that is used in my bass boat. Its been on since yesterday, 9/8/11, working like a camp and its 12 volts. Its keeping up with the water that is still coming in. Will plug with hydro-lock from Lowe's. Just re-reading after talking with gent on HF from Mystic, CT (like the pizza) who got some of Irene after downgrade to TS. Idea you cite above is in category my wife would call scathingly brilliant. Thanks for the lightbulb.
FWIW, Mystic man was on city water, a bit higher than town, and was g2g once he was done buying a gen post-incident (at 2x MSRP). Those gloating that they had wells didn't gloat so much when the com'l AC went out as no way to make it defy gravity...
The Reaper
09-22-2011, 16:06
Just re-reading after talking with gent on HF from Mystic, CT (like the pizza) who got some of Irene after downgrade to TS. Idea you cite above is in category my wife would call scathingly brilliant. Thanks for the lightbulb.
FWIW, Mystic man was on city water, a bit higher than town, and was g2g once he was done buying a gen post-incident (at 2x MSRP). Those gloating that they had wells didn't gloat so much when the com'l AC went out as no way to make it defy gravity...
They need a cistern or a holding tank above the level of the house.
Alternately, a medium sized generator, or a battery bank with a big inverter (or a DC pump motor, but the holding tank helps with all of those methods as well.
TR
Heres a tip that might come in handy sometime when you are in a hurry to get something dried out:
Place the hose on the exhaust port on the Shopvac rather than the vacuum port so you are blowing air. Place hose inside boot or shoe. Depending on boot/shoe construction, an absolutely soaking wet boot or shoe will dry in 5-25 minutes. Repeat process on other boot/shoe.
I figured this one out when I needed a pair of absolutely soaked tennis shoes dried very quickly. Waiting for my Peet boot drier to dry them overnight was not an option. I was very impressed with the result. Each shoe was thoroughly dry in 5 minutes.
I have used this on all manner of footwear since.
You are using a high volume of air slightly warmed from the Shopvac motor, and no real heat to speak of. You are just increasing the evaporation rate about 1000-fold. I have not seen any damage result from this on any of my footwear when I have used this method.
It works on socks, gloves, and other clothing too.
NeverSayDie
12-26-2011, 10:00
Earlier this year my whole AO got flooded really bad. 15 feet of water with 60% of the population living in the floodzone. When the guard got called in from a state over, me and my battlebuddy show up in full kit, drenched up to our nipples, asking where to report. I get stuck in the TOC getting coffee for this grisly old MSG (when most of these guard units didnt show up until after responding to worse areas, and hadnt slept in 48 hours). As supply guy for my ROTC platoon I had in my ruck several copies of DoD maps of the area in 1:50,000 and 1:100,000 which I give them becuase these motherfuckers ARE USING GOOGLE EARTH (and their cellphones for commo even though the towers are overloaded.) After an hour or so a 2LT pulls me asside and asks what unit I'm with.
"Excelsior Batt 1st Co 3rd Plt Sir"
"no I mean your Guard unit, who do you SMP with?"
"we're not SMP sir, just ROTC"
This guy throws a shit fit about regulations and how cadets can't support active military operations, even though I'm just grabbing coffee and helping this computer illiterate E-5 type up squad rotations on microsoft word. the MSG comes out to rip my head off about his coffee and gets into it with the LT. 30 minutes later me and my battlebuddy get taken home in a 2 ton, and we're sitting on our front porch drinking beers watching some guy raft down the street at the bottom of the hill our street sits on with "dude, WTF just happened?" looks on our faces. Really pissed me off becuase it was OUR hometown and wanted to do something about it. Ya know pull little kids out of the current and shit. Anyway, we had a stockpile of canned goods and water in the basement, but it got flooded with run off comming down the hill. 24hrs no electricty, 48 no running water, 2 weeks boiling it. turned into a major PITA, and could have been much worse.
AND THEY NEVER GAVE ME MY FUCKING MAPS BACK :mad:
The whole experience leaves me with a lack of confidence in disaster response around here. besides, theres no reason not to be prepared.
That being said, my current bug out bag is as follows:
Standard issue MOLLE2 Ruck with Wet weather & Gortex suits, Polypro top& bottom, 3 peice sleeping bag & foam matt. Kindle with small library of FM's and local flora& fuana on pdf in waterproof bag, 6 feild stripped MRE's, duck tape, 100' 550 cord, 50' nylon rope, zippo, flint, 4' gerber tactical knife hatchet & sharpening stone, signaling mirror, whistle, 1 canteen cup, 3 canteens & 7oz Camelback + purification tablets, Maps & protractor, 8x10x16 Binos, med kit. spare change of clothes with crapload of OD green socks. 2 rite in rain notebooks.
Med Kit: dental floss & needles, guaze rolls, cravats, dressings, 1 Tq, double barrel stetho & BP cuff, rebreather mask, Various sized OPA's
penlight & non-laytex hypo allergenic gloves. bacardi 150, ibeuprofin, advil, tylenol, caffein pills, over the counter sleep aids.
theres a large variety of different kinds of sh!t that can hit the fan around here, and I lack the resources to properly prepare for them all. However the one common thread in any scenario I can think of, is that they can all be solved by "GTFO of the affected area". setting up a fortress and holding it off until help arrives is limited by the amount of food&water you can stockpile, and how long you can defend it. being mobile alows more options. Firewood is abundant in 200 miles in any direction, with fire, boiling water from the numerous rivers around or snow in the hills with addition to dew traps cover water year round. As for shelter, the bivvy sack has served me well in sub zero tempuratures, anything else as far as comfort can be improvised. my family was homeless my freshman year of highschool so I can make an abandoned building damn near luxurious. the only real disadvantage of this approach is food. obviously can't carry more than a few days worth on your back, so hunting-gathering-scavanging skills come into play. Suppose setting up a stockpile in an isolated area not likely to be looted would be a good idea. also even the most basic medical training will probably be in short supply, so i suppose I could link up with someone who has some, and exchange one for the other if the opportunity presents itself.
I'll be adding some new items to the list and reveiwing my plan after reading this thread. any criticism/advice is obviously welcomed and encouraged.
Incase I stepped out of my lane here, I'll push out 50 and STFU until told otherwise.
blacksmoke
02-03-2012, 11:14
After hearing Isreal might strike Iran in the next few months freezedryguy just got some bussiness. Thanks stingray and koz for the info.
The Reaper
02-03-2012, 18:30
I'm filling up my vehicles and my spare gas cans and hitting them with Sta-Bil this weekend.
Time to test run the generator and charge the battery bank as well.
I'll hold off on filling up my water supply tank till the power goes out. Probably a good time to grab a couple of fresh packets of pool shock.
Might also be a good time time to take a look in the freezer and the cupboard and see what we need to stock up on.
If nothing happens, we can dump the gas in the cars, and skip a few trips to the grocery store. Nothing lost.
TR
Did anyone see the premiere of "Doomsday Preppers" this past Tuesday on NatGeo? LINK (http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/doomsday-preppers/)
Hour long program, broken up into 3 segments. Each segment was a different person, prepping for a different scenario. When I saw the previews for this show, I couldn't tell if it was serious or if the producers were making fun. After watching the first 2 shows, some of the featured preppers do seem wacky, but there were a few good ideas here and there.
At the end of each segment NatGeo had their "expert" (unidentified) evaluate the person's plan, grade it and provide feedback. It was done respectfully, but not always received enthusiastically by the prepper.
Biggest surprise is that they tell you where each prepper lives. All you have to do to survive is find one of these people's houses and clean them out.
The first 2 shows are being re-aired this weekend. New shows are Tuesdays @ 2100 EST.
Love to hear what some of you think about it....
Did anyone see the premiere of "Doomsday Preppers" this past Tuesday on NatGeo? LINK (http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/doomsday-preppers/)
Hour long program, broken up into 3 segments. Each segment was a different person, prepping for a different scenario. When I saw the previews for this show, I couldn't tell if it was serious or if the producers were making fun. After watching the first 2 shows, some of the featured preppers do seem wacky, but there were a few good ideas here and there.
At the end of each segment NatGeo had their "expert" (unidentified) evaluate the person's plan, grade it and provide feedback. It was done respectfully, but not always received enthusiastically by the prepper.
Biggest surprise is that they tell you where each prepper lives. All you have to do to survive is find one of these people's houses and clean them out.
The first 2 shows are being re-aired this weekend. New shows are Tuesdays @ 2100 EST.
Love to hear what some of you think about it....
I think that Nat Geo owes me an hour of my life back.
What a joke.
I'm filling up my vehicles and my spare gas cans and hitting them with Sta-Bil this weekend.
Time to test run the generator and charge the battery bank as well.
I'll hold off on filling up my water supply tank till the power goes out. Probably a good time to grab a couple of fresh packets of pool shock.
Might also be a good time time to take a look in the freezer and the cupboard and see what we need to stock up on.
If nothing happens, we can dump the gas in the cars, and skip a few trips to the grocery store. Nothing lost.
TR
TR, what size water tank do you have? I am thinking of adding one, however I am thinking about going the route of letting the rain fill it up. Just need to come up with a system for filtration.
The Reaper
02-27-2012, 15:25
I have a 375 gallon container, several bladders, and water barrels for my downspouts.
TR
Ghost_Team
02-27-2012, 20:14
I haven't had time to read this entire thread yet, but the water storage thing caught my eye. There is a company called "LifeSaver" and they make self filtering water bottles and jerry cans that are good for several thousand liters of purified water. I originally had to watch a speech on TED as part of a college class, and this was a one of the topics. If this has been mentioned before, I apologize.
I think that Nat Geo owes me an hour of my life back.
What a joke.
Mills, you are right. After 3 shows I cancelled the series on my DVR. Much more info on here and on youtube.
ODA CDR (RET)
03-04-2012, 14:44
I'm filling up my vehicles and my spare gas cans and hitting them with Sta-Bil this weekend.
Time to test run the generator and charge the battery bank as well.
I'll hold off on filling up my water supply tank till the power goes out. Probably a good time to grab a couple of fresh packets of pool shock.
Might also be a good time time to take a look in the freezer and the cupboard and see what we need to stock up on.
If nothing happens, we can dump the gas in the cars, and skip a few trips to the grocery store. Nothing lost.
TR
T, Just a side note that the type of Sta-Bil may also be important if you use Ethanol gas. I was just talking with a bud and he mentioned that he uses Marine Sta-Bil which helps with ethanol fuel treatment. By the way thanks for starting this thread. I have only gotten through page 13 and look forward getting through the rest of it.
Badger52
03-05-2012, 08:47
T, Just a side note that the type of Sta-Bil may also be important if you use Ethanol gas. I was just talking with a bud and he mentioned that he uses Marine Sta-Bil which helps with ethanol fuel treatment.+1 While Sta-Bil is a good thing, I've had several very successful small-engine repairmen also advise that, for fuel stored that you want to use on something that absolutely has to start it's worth considering finding a location that sells you the higher-octane w/o ethanol. (Ethanol in their opinion being a blight on the planet because of its natural tendency to suck moisture out of the air, with the moisture-laden fuel finding its way to said small engine. Cursing that follows is optional.)
Destrier
04-02-2012, 04:41
Have truly enjoyed this thread, so I thought I would post a couple of the projects we are working on here at our AOB.
We have just acquired a set of horses for the property. Nino a Perychon-Thoroughbred retired police horse age 12, carriage/wagon trained, jump trained, crowd control, and has been exposed to gunfire. Athena age 2 Euro-Belgian /1/4 standard. Athena is not broke yet but a very mild mannered gal, should be good with allot of work and Nino beside her.
Part of the log pulling and farming portion of the prepper plan here. My neighbor also has draft teams as well so we plan on sharing some of the equipment required. Now for me to build a log skidder. Will be talking to a few of our Amish neighbors since they have a metal shop just down the road.
If all goes well, in another season I can slowly phase out my ATV's that we have used last five years for wood hauling, plowing, mowing etc.
Second project that is coming together nicely is a power trailer (used boat trailer converted) With a propane generac generator, Magnum Energy DC/AC Converter and powered by a vulcan gasifier with backup BBQ grill propane tanks, and 400 amp hours set of batteries at 24vdc. The trailer has a spot for my spare diesel generator as the alternate and some storage. Materials are all on hand now, just need to fabricate it all together. In time will add A solar roof.
We decided to go with the trailer just for the bugout factor based on where we live. It will be horse or vehicle towed.
It should have enough power to run our house with running the gasifier and generator about 6 hours a day. Reality always slightly different however. Have a feeling I may need to get one more set of Batteries or run gasifier twice a day.
Will post pics when assembled, probably by end April.
Derecho could knock out power for a week or more
First off WTF is a Derecho? PC correctness invading weather now? Why not just stick with "powerfull line of thinderstorms"?
http://wtop.com/41/2925313/Electricity-slowly-coming-back
".............................Verizon says their crews are working around the clock to fix the problem.
In addition, many Verizon, AT&T, Sprint and T-Mobile customers say they are having issues with phone service.
AT&T technicians are "mobilized and currently working to resolve the issues," according to a company release.
"Due to damaging storms that have knocked out power across the Midwest and Northeast regions of the country, some AT&T customers in impacted areas in Virginia and Washington D.C. may be experiencing issues with wireless service," the company says. ........................................."
While this story mostly deals with power outages and land line phone service notice the cell coverage was also disrupted. This was fairly minor as events go and still problems with cell service. Folks, a real bad something hits - better not count on just your cell phone to rally your "troops".
Our kids live in West Springfield, just outside the loop. They lost power yesterday and it was restored around noon today. Lost everything in the fridge, but the freezer stuff is OK..
They were lucky. They have a yard full of oaks. Lost some branches, but no damage to the house. I got on them after a storm last yr and they had an outfit come in and do a major trim job.
They still need to get a good gen set. :mad:
I understand there were deaths in their area. Don't have the story yet, but I bet it has to do with downed trees and power lines. Dominion Power does very little in the way of preventative trimming... :mad:
You can not stick your head in the sand and think "it can't happen to me"..
First off WTF is a Derecho?
I think that's what NOAA called the storm..
Derecho - Spanish - figures
Gotta' be hip, cool - and PC to be a weather person these days.
The Reaper
07-01-2012, 15:56
Life without electricity is not kind to us in our modern hedonistic lifestyles.
That is why I recommend that everyone who can safely operate one get a generator. A basic unit which can run a few lights, fans, and maybe a fridge off an extension cord will run you $500-$1,000. Unfortunately, gasoline is dangerous to store in the home, and has a very limited shelf life. Even if you use fuel stabilizer, you need to rotate it at least annually. And, even if you store 25 gallons, that is only a couple of days of constant running for the 5KW gas powered generator.
If you have $5,000 or more, you can get a whole house model with an automatic transfer switch and hook it up to your NG or LP line. Note that if the power is out for an extended time, the Natural Gas lines will lose pressure when their generators run out of fuel and stop the genset. The LP is IMHO, the way to go, but it is more expensive.
Burning LP to power a 14KW genset at moderate load will use roughly 1.5 GPH of LP, or 36 GPD. That means it will cost about $100 per day to make electricity full time on about half my house (no dryer, range, ovens, water heaters, and only one of the HVAC units). The 14KW genset can, if used continuously, run about seven to ten days on a full 500 gallon tank under normal loads. The power company will provide electricity to everything for about $10 per day, so this is not something you want to do full time for an extended period. There are about 350 gallons of usable LP in a 500 gallon tank, and running it empty will currently cost roughly $1000 to fill.
You can use it for a couple of hours in the morning, and a couple of hours in the evening, and stretch it for almost two months, if it is full when you start. If we are without electricity for more than two months, we have bigger problems to worry about.
You can also use deep cycle batteries and an inverter to run small appliances like lights, fans, TVs, radios, etc. in the down cycle and recharge the battery bank when the generator is running. Or just use DC powered devices directly off the battery. You can buy most items in a DC version, if they are using a wall wart, or batteries, though some may be specialty items for camping, boats, or RVs.
I had a two tall pines less than 50 ft. from the house hit by a couple of lightning strikes recently. Ran in on the cable line and fried a lot of electronics. I recommend enhanced grounding, whole house surge protection, cable and phone line surge protectors, and point of service surge protection.
Still waiting to see if the trees die and have to be dropped. Hoping that I get to make the call, and they don't come down on their own.
Best of luck to those stuck in the dark and in this heat. Prayers out.
TR
Airbornelawyer
07-01-2012, 17:10
Derecho could knock out power for a week or more
First off WTF is a Derecho? PC correctness invading weather now? Why not just stick with "powerfull line of thinderstorms"?
http://wtop.com/41/2925313/Electricity-slowly-coming-back
".............................Verizon says their crews are working around the clock to fix the problem.
In addition, many Verizon, AT&T, Sprint and T-Mobile customers say they are having issues with phone service.
AT&T technicians are "mobilized and currently working to resolve the issues," according to a company release.
"Due to damaging storms that have knocked out power across the Midwest and Northeast regions of the country, some AT&T customers in impacted areas in Virginia and Washington D.C. may be experiencing issues with wireless service," the company says. ........................................."
While this story mostly deals with power outages and land line phone service notice the cell coverage was also disrupted. This was fairly minor as events go and still problems with cell service. Folks, a real bad something hits - better not count on just your cell phone to rally your "troops".
I am in Fairfax right now. For what it's worth, my Verizon service is about the only thing that didn't go out. I understand other areas had problems, including a loss of 911 service in Manassas. Where I am, power was restored after 17 hours.
The latest news is that PEPCO isn't expecting to restore service for some customers in DC until Friday. Dominion Power says as of 7PM Sunday that 347,643 of 2,458,276 mainly Virginia customers remain without power. They expect to restore power to 80-85% of these by Tuesday. The others may have wait through the end of the week.
Attached is a photo of a downed utility pole down the street from me.
Most of the area around me was without power yesterday. We are on the same loop as one of the DoD facilities, so we had power up much quicker that those further out. From what I understand Verizon cell phones were out all through here as well. I got a ham license for this very reason. My mother lives in WV still, and she made the rounds to all her elderly neighbors to recharge their refrigerators with her generator. They don't expect power for at least a few more days. There are more than a few granola head types out here who are pretty smug about having solar panels and the such right now.
On the topic of solar panels, has anyone looked at the solar generators that are out there (example http://www.thousandsuns.com/solarpod-range/solarpod?gclid=CNj6jP_U-bACFUFV4AodWnccEw)?
We were fine with our store of water and such, but it really got me thinking about a generator.