Thoughts on language

[Bechorg]

I just got done with my second French DLPT in which I declined in score from a 2+/2 to a...wait for it... 2+/1+. That means I get paid zilch for the next six months in hopes I can get the listening back up. I am that guy that checked the block on the last test and got complacent. Don't be me.

Don't let your language slip. I thought I was good and didn't put in any extra studying outside of school, and my listening score reflected that. Guys complain about the methodology of the test, whatever man, your score is a direct reflection of the effort that you put into it.

As far as I know going forward to get a 1/1 NCOER you will need a 1+/1+. Promotions will soon be tied to your language score. This means that you need to put in optimal effort during the Q and establish a strong base that you can improve upon, not maintain, throughout your career.

3/3 is achievable, and 3 in my class of 8 got there this year. The Groups are now putting money into their language lab and annual language training for everyone, and you need to take advantage of that and bring home some extra cheddar for mama to spend at the mall. In my opinion this is a welcome change and getting back to the roots in this way is a great step into the future. We are supposed to be language and cultural experts in our regions. 1/1 is a pitiful standard to set, but they had to start somewhere.

I will make an estimation that in five years, with the current slowed op tempo and focus on language, the average score for an SF operator will be 2/2. The change will only be brought on by it being tied to promotions and available time to commit to it. So I suggest you get ahead of the curve and put in the time!

[Jgood]

Going to disagree with you brother. I recently changed from French to Russian as my Clang after 7months and a 6wk LET I was able to score a 2/2 on the OPI and in the 1+/2 range on the TORFL while on my LET. I took the DLPT days before my OPI and 1 week after my LET and I spent damn near every possible moment studying and preparing for my test and guess what I got on the DLPT 1/0+, the other 3 guys who also got 2/2 on the OPI scored 1/1, 0/0 or 0+/0. The DLPT is a test geared toward intel guys and translators if it was geared toward SF then it would be listening and speaking hmmm sounds like the OPI, which we only get FLIP pay for.
I will say it will be nice to see language become a priority again but only if they fully give us the resources to succeed at them, until then 1/1 will be a pain to maintain for guys that don't deploy to there target language countries. Because French did me so much good in Afghanistan

[Bechorg]

I did the same thing after not using Arabic for 3 years.

Our language school has DLPT related classes that are geared for that test. Most of the guys do the OPI, but I am just not as good at speaking as I am reading and listening. As you know you have to train for the DLPT from the start because it is a completely different method. IMO the pay is backwards, I would much rather employ someone who can speak in the language than someone who can only listen and read it. In my group at least I can say it is once again a priority with at least 4 weeks a year dedicated to being in class.

I still see nonsensical mixed language teams that seem brought together for no reason at all (French/Russian/Arabic) on the same team. They need to do a one time mix up of each group and realign the teams with languages, and then align deployments with those teams. Sure it would hurt for a year or so, but in the long run it would be best for the force. Maybe a SGM can fill me in on why assignments are done the way they are.

If I were an Ambassador in the Congo I would have much more confidence in a team with a good level of French across the board. We continue to set guys up for huge obstacles when they don't speak a lick of the native language. Until those things are set up, I don't really see guys getting too motivated.

[The Reaper]

A major problem is that language requirements change.

Prior to 9/11, I do not think we even taught Pashto or Dari. Probably not a lot of Chinese, either.

Lots of Russian and Eastern European language training though. The first teams into Northern Afghanistan did not speak the language and finally had to speak Russian (which they were not trained for, but a couple of guys had been in Russian slots before) with the Alliance as that was the only language they had in common.

Do we change soldier's languages to meet the emerging requirements, or keep older, less necessary languages on the books?

How many guys can we get to learn a new language to a 2/2 standard every five years? Some will never learn an additional language beyond their native tongue to that standard, no matter what the investment.

And who can say what the needs will be in ten years?

Makes me glad to have been a 7th Group guy who spoke Spanish.

TR

[Peregrino]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Makes me glad to have been a 7th Group guy who spoke Spanish. TR

Me too!

Language is painful. Dedicated Special Forces Soldiers will recognize that language competence is as important as weapons and MOS skills and they'll invest the effort required to become proficient in their assigned language. Those guys will reap the rewards further down the road. Opportunities for fun, travel and adventure will abound as capabilities currently being developed mature. The ones who don't get on board will suffer because assignments, schools, promotions, and bonuses will be linked to test scores. It will be tough because there's nothing fair about who gets CAT I and who gets CAT IV, about who benefits from a CAT I language spoken in friendly tropical paradises and who gets stuck with a language only spoken in a country they'll never get to visit short of wartime deployment so they can never benefit from immersion opportunities, etc. etc. Add that not every SFG(A) dedicates the same effort to their language program (leadership issue!) and expectations (shaped by the current training model designed to get a 1/1 on the OPI) are unrealistic, it's no wonder frustrations are overwhelming whatever minimal enthusiasm exists. Add that the Regimental program which is designed and funded to SUSTAIN the 1/1 for the CLANG assigned/taught in SWCS is now being forced to provide initial acquisition training for new languages (using sub-standard contracted instructors on a grossly abbreviated schedule [12 weeks to teach a CAT IV from 0 to 1/1? GET F***ING REAL!]). I could go on for pages. All it would do is piss me off and frustrate you guys. Besides - I would run out of bourbon before I finished. The only good thing is we have a phenomenal team running the Regimental Language Program. (Those of you waiting for language pay should check your pay stubs in a month or so for validation!) They've gotten admin contractors into all the language labs and they're doing their best to ensure the contracts servicing your requirements are the best we can get given the f'ed up contracting system. A lot of things have to change for it to get better and - bluntly - it will NEVER be perfect. Too many hotspots (that are always changing), each with its own language, not enough SF Soldiers to cover everything, and never enough time to train them in the appropriate language when a new crisis explodes. Oh well - enough pissing and moaning for one post.

[Jgood]

Originally Posted by Peregrino

Me too!

The only good thing is we have a phenomenal team running the Regimental Language Program. (Those of you waiting for language pay should check your pay stubs in a month or so for validation!)

Well that will be amazing considering I am owed a years worth of back language pay. Sad to say this is the Norm for most of my BN at least. Better get that 1/1 or no schools for you, get that 1+/1+ or no excellence on your NCOER, but don't worry we will pay you sometime

Sorry for venting but I feel language is a huge portion of our job and would love to see more put into a program that truly could make you fluent and not just study for a test.

[TFA303]

Originally Posted by Peregrino

Me too!

... who benefits from a CAT I language spoken in friendly tropical paradises and who gets stuck with a language only spoken in a country they'll never get to visit short of wartime deployment so they can never benefit from immersion opportunities, etc. etc. ...(

As someone who just took DLPT and OPI in Farsi for the first time, I gotta give an Amen there!

[UWOA (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Bechorg

I did the same thing after not using Arabic for 3 years.

Our language school has DLPT related classes that are geared for that test. Most of the guys do the OPI, but I am just not as good at speaking as I am reading and listening. As you know you have to train for the DLPT from the start because it is a completely different method. IMO the pay is backwards, I would much rather employ someone who can speak in the language than someone who can only listen and read it. In my group at least I can say it is once again a priority with at least 4 weeks a year dedicated to being in class.

I still see nonsensical mixed language teams that seem brought together for no reason at all (French/Russian/Arabic) on the same team. They need to do a one time mix up of each group and realign the teams with languages, and then align deployments with those teams. Sure it would hurt for a year or so, but in the long run it would be best for the force. Maybe a SGM can fill me in on why assignments are done the way they are.

If I were an Ambassador in the Congo I would have much more confidence in a team with a good level of French across the board. We continue to set guys up for huge obstacles when they don't speak a lick of the native language. Until those things are set up, I don't really see guys getting too motivated.

Because, while a team may be oriented for a particular area, you never know where you may end up actually going. While there was one Group actually assigned the Middle East AOs, every Group ended up with boots on the ground there. With several languages available on a multi-language team you have a better chance at having at least one teammate who can communicate with the target audience (witness the statement of Russian being used to communicate with the Northern Alliance). At least that's my drift and why there were several languages on my team in the 70's and 80's ... Spanish, Norwegian, German and ... drum roll ... English .

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