08-24-2014, 12:06
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#76
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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Interesting
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
There are some big assumptions, and a huge risk, in that statement.
I am sure Typhoid Mary thought she was low/no-risk as well.
TR
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Interesting that Typhoid Mary had a sit down with Dr.'s who explained to her what she was doing. She didn't believe them, kept changing her name, moving around and getting new jobs as a cook. She never could make that "Gee, everywhere I start cooking people start dying" connection.
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Pete is offline
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08-24-2014, 19:30
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#77
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadsword2004
Had to Google her, but she was not a medical doctor, and had to be forcibly isolated. I get what you are saying about assumptions, but if the doctor thought there was any chance he might infect people, I would think, judging from what we know of him, that he would not willingly go out into the public yet.
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In this instance, I hope you are right.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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09-15-2014, 23:32
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#78
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Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: The Black Hills of SD
Posts: 5,945
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I wonder if any of those 160,000 hazmat suits are ear marked for staying here in the U.S.?
Quote:
State Department orders 5,000 BODY BAGS and 160,000 hazmat suits for African Ebola outbreak
*State Department orders 5,000 BODY BAGS and 160,000 hazmat suits for African Ebola outbreak as Obama sends 100 CDC experts
*Two government contracts were completed this month, sending 5,000 cadaver bags to Liberia
*The State Department's U.S. Agency for International Development spent more than $89,000 to buy the bags and fly them to Liberia
*World Health Organization says 2,400 Africans have died as the deadly virus travels through Guinea, Liberia, Sierra Leone and other nations
*President Obama will travel to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Tuesday to announce new U.S. commitments to help
*CDC warns about US impact and sends 100 personnel to Africa; Obama government has allocated more than $100 million in resources
The U.S. Agency for International Development ordered 5,000 body bags from a Florida company last month as part of its planned response to an outbreak of the Ebola virus in western Africa.
And as President Obama prepares to enlarge America's aid to affected countries, a company that makes protective clothing says the State Department, which oversees USAID, has invited bids for 160,000 hazmat suits.
The body-bag purchase came on August 19, just after the World Health Organization said the epidemic had killed 1,000 people. That death toll is now greater than 2,400.
The size of the contracts indicates how seriously governments are taking the threat, especially considering that all 5,000 body bags were destined only for Liberia – one of three countries whose citizens have been hammered with new disease cases and paralyzed with fear.
And the purchase says nothing about what resources might be coming as part of other nations' contributions.
Barack Obama will travel to Atlanta on Tuesday for a briefing with experts from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. His chief spokesman said Monday that the president will announce new levels of support from the U.S. to fight the disease.
The CDC has begun to warn health care workers and hospital administrators to be on the lookout for potential Ebola cases. 'Now is the time to prepare,' reads part of a six-page 'checklist' being distributed nationwide.
The agency has already deployed about 100 of its own workers to Africa, White House press secretary Josh Earnest told reporters during his daily briefing.
'This is, if not the largest, among the largest deployments of CDC personnel – ever,' he said.
America, Earnest added, 'has a unique responsibility to step up in the midst of an international crisis. ... Our doctors and scientists are some of the best in the world.'
The federal government as a whole has allocated $100 million in financing and other resources to assist what has become a continent-wide race against the clock to stamp out a crafty pathogen before it can spread beyond hope of containment.
<snip>
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...C-experts.html
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Sdiver is offline
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09-16-2014, 16:43
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#79
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Italy
Posts: 1,989
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014...lan-for-ebola/
So, basically, DOD is going to be a uniformed version of AID. Great. We can't warfight, but we can send 3000 soldiers to be a high speed "doctors without borders".
What a tool our president is.
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sinjefe is offline
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09-16-2014, 17:17
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#80
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadsword2004
Some say it is a good thing to do because otherwise it could destroy West Africa and also there is the very slight chance that it could mutate into a form that becomes more easily spread, and if so, we want to keep in contained in Africa and not get out.
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Great, now we can spread it to our own country.
Brilliant! 
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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09-16-2014, 17:19
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#81
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cochise Co., AZ
Posts: 6,208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
Great, now we can spread it to our own country.
Brilliant!
TR |
It worked in 1918.
Pat
__________________
"Hector Lives!"
"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass
"The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." -- Dennis Prager
"The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it." --H.L. Mencken
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PSM is offline
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09-16-2014, 17:32
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#82
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadsword2004
Well I would assume the soldiers have special training and equipment for dealing with this.
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A: No, they don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadsword2004
Should we just let the disease continue to get more and more out-of-control in West Africa?
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A: Yes. The current situation is NOT our problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadsword2004
Better to start getting it under control now I would think, then have it maybe mutate and then make its way here.
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A: Just how do you think we are going to "get in under control." This is another sinkhole. "Maybe mutate?" How about the only way to catch it now is directly from contact with someone who has it. How to control it? Perhaps we should be playing keep away. Quarantine is used because it works.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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09-16-2014, 17:53
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#83
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cochise Co., AZ
Posts: 6,208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadsword2004
Well I would assume the soldiers have special training and equipment for dealing with this. Should we just let the disease continue to get more and more out-of-control in West Africa? Better to start getting it under control now I would think, then have it maybe mutate and then make its way here.
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Your fears, or perhaps concerns, seem a bit discordant. You are concerned about nuclear power, which is a threat that you can easily avoid, but you are not concerned about the spread of a disease that is transmitted human to human and thus far more difficult to avoid.
Pat
__________________
"Hector Lives!"
"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass
"The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." -- Dennis Prager
"The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it." --H.L. Mencken
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PSM is offline
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09-16-2014, 18:05
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#84
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadsword2004
What if it gets into our country via a flight somehow, or maybe to a European country and then into our country? To get it under control, I would imagine you treat and quarantine and care for those infected, and thus reduce the spread of the disease, and thus it dies out easier. I agree that the way to get it is if someone has it, but it will be more difficult to control the more people that get it. Also, what happens if it does mutate and then the numbers of people getting it go up exponentially? It probably would be unrealistic to think it would stay in Africa forever.
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How does putting 3,000 American soldiers on the ground in the hot zone where they CAN contact people with ebola help, exactly?
They are not going to cure it. How do you ensure they are infection free when they redeploy?
I would think that it would be much safer to take a chance on the possibility of it mutating than to put our people in direct contact now.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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09-16-2014, 18:13
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#85
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cochise Co., AZ
Posts: 6,208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadsword2004
I am very concerned about the spread of ebola, hence why I think it is important to try to address it now.
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What was the primary vector for the 1918 Flu Pandemic? Returning soldiers from Europe.
Pat
__________________
"Hector Lives!"
"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass
"The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." -- Dennis Prager
"The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it." --H.L. Mencken
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PSM is offline
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09-16-2014, 19:01
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#86
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Italy
Posts: 1,989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadsword2004
Well I would assume the soldiers have special training and equipment for dealing with this. Should we just let the disease continue to get more and more out-of-control in West Africa? Better to start getting it under control now I would think, then have it maybe mutate and then make its way here.
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Do you not understand the hypocrisy of "no boots on the ground" in Syria but putting 3000 on the ground in Africa? Soldiers are for breaking things and killing people, not for social programs in Africa. He wants to do that, send USAID and/or the Peace corp
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sinjefe is offline
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09-16-2014, 19:15
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#87
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NM
Posts: 525
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I heard on the radio this morning that Ebola is expected to double every 3 months. That really does not sound good.
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NurseTim is offline
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09-16-2014, 19:22
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#88
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,403
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Infuriating. How are 3000 American troops going to cure West African ignorance, superstition, and corruption? More PC BS.
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09-16-2014, 19:40
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#89
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadsword2004
Peace Corps and USAID probably do not have the training to properly handle something like Ebola in that sense.
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Please use your vast military knowledge and experience to elaborate on what training you think they will have to render them immune to ebola?
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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09-16-2014, 19:44
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#90
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Area Commander
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadsword2004
Putting soldiers into Syria though could probably get them killed a lot more easily than being sent to West Africa (or at least that is how the thinking goes, I imagine some would rather be sent into combat than around Ebola). I wouldn't say though that this is just a social program, it is a program in which the United States has a national security interest. It isn't like the military is being sent in to just build huts or something for the sake of it. Peace Corps and USAID probably do not have the training to properly handle something like Ebola in that sense.
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Many of your posts make those 3000 personnel sound expendable...to which they are not. They are being sent there based on a "possibility" or "what if" scenario. That doesn't necessitate sending 3000 military personnel over there simply because our government feels they can if they call it a "national security incident."
I take Ebola as serious as you do. But, sending our troops over there to try to fix their issue isn't the answer.
Last edited by Sohei; 09-16-2014 at 19:47.
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