MSNBC Host: Romney accused of using racist code

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by Hand

Can you picture the NFL today if the scouts couldn't "discriminate"?

If liberal influence continues at the current pace, you won't have the NFL to use as an example.

Originally Posted by Dusty

I spent my career working with minorities who didn't snivel about their ethnicity. How 'bout you?

And I have many friends that are African American (also Asian and Hispanic) that do not rely on recognition from whites to boost their self esteem (which is already off the charts), nor empowerment to make the life choices they do. They are quite successful in their lives, probably more so than myself. I am proud to have them as my friends, but the fact that they are African American is not the reason. It is because they are successful, have much to offer in the lives they lead, and give back to the community.

It could be because of the geographical location in which I live provides more opportunity for everyone, providing one takes advantage of that opportunity.

[afchic]

Originally Posted by Dusty

I spent my career working with minorities who didn't snivel about their ethnicity. How 'bout you?

The fact that they didn't "snivel" doesn't mean they weren't being descriminated against. I have seen true cases of descrimination in my career. I never considered it sniveling when they tried to do something about it.

[afchic]

Originally Posted by Hand

Discrimination has many meanings:

Noun:
The unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, esp. on the grounds of race, age, or sex.
Recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another.

Miriam webster even has a different definition, one not at all affiliate with race.
: the process by which two stimuli differing in some aspect are responded to differently :

I was a very skinny child. Therefore I was rarely picked until last for pick up foot ball games. When I was a kid, I thought "I know I'm skinny, but pick me and Ill play my heart out to make up for my size". Were the team captains discriminating against me on my lack of size? Negative.

They were looking for people better qualified for the job that needed to be done.

The difference between then and now is that not being picked motivated people then to either quit or get better. Which I did. I grew up to be the captain of both the basketball and football teams at my school.

If that would have been today - I would have stomped off to my parents, stuck out my lip and told my parents that I didnt get picked because no body liked me, then my dad would have sued the school in liue of "fairness", the team captains would have gotten suspended, I would have been made the team captain and mandated that football teams had to consist of 50% skinny people, 10% girls from then on.

Can you picture the NFL today if the scouts couldn't "discriminate"?

Did you even bother to read the posts on this thread before posting. We were VERY specifically discussing descrimination based on the color of one's skin ie.. the fact that a black man is now POTUS means there is no longer descrimination based on being black.

Athletic ability doesn't concern me as far as this thread is concerned.

[Badger52]

While not all will be convinced (or admit to same anyway) I think the voting booths will reflect some willingness to change having had the chance to evaluate someone for a time.

I recall quietly hanging on the periphery of many parent/aunt/uncle poker games, folks who were either Republican or Democrat - conservative & liberal weren't really in jargon in So Cal back then. They weren't sure quite what to do over the possibility of electing a Roman Catholic JFK. But they were certainly familiar in the state with Nixon already. In a bi-partisan manner they decided (within my little circle) that almost anything was better than Dick in the White House at the time. Those same folks with initial misgivings wept openly in November 1963. (And LBJ drove some to Goldwater next time.)

People hold various biases, sometimes based simply on unfamiliarity; don't underestimate their ability to get past it. That generation was familiar with Nixon and said "uh-huh." Having now seen what a full term of Obamaland looks like I think their kids are going to make him a 1-term President.

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by afchic

The fact that they didn't "snivel" doesn't mean they weren't being descriminated against. I have seen true cases of descrimination in my career. I never considered it sniveling when they tried to do something about it.

How 'bout a name? Give me the name of one person in this Country who doesn't have the same chance of making it all the way to the top because of the color of his skin.

You're living decades in the past. You can't do better than make it to an Operational Detachment Alpha, and trust me, there were more minorities on A teams than you can imagine.

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by Dusty

How 'bout a name? Give me the name of one person in this Country who doesn't have the same chance of making it all the way to the top because of the color of his skin.

This is a loaded question. First, it requires one to prove what hiring authorities would not admit -- that someone won't get a job because of her or his skin color. Second, it assumes that there are two candidates for a given job who are exactly the same but for their race.

Nevertheless, there is Kareem Abdul Jabbar. The NBA's all time time leading scorer is on the short list when it comes to talking about the greatest basketball player in the history of the NCAA and the NBA. The man has paid his dues as an assistant coach. Along with Bill Walton, Cap is an intellectual and philosophical descendant of the late John Wooden. Yet, year after year, his phone does not ring.

Is this just about the reputation he earned early in his playing career for being "aloof"? Is this about his not knowing the game of basketball? Or is it about his not knowing about winning? Or is it about something else?

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

This is a loaded question. First, it requires one to prove what hiring authorities would not admit -- that someone won't get a job because of her or his skin color. Second, it assumes that there are two candidates for a given job who are exactly the same but for their race.

Nevertheless, there is Kareem Abdul Jabbar. The NBA's all time time leading scorer is on the short list when it comes to talking about the greatest basketball player in the history of the NCAA and the NBA. The man has paid his dues as an assistant coach. Along with Bill Walton, Cap is an intellectual and philosophical descendant of the late John Wooden. Yet, year after year, his phone does not ring.

Is this just about the reputation he earned early in his playing career for being "aloof"? Is this about his not knowing the game of basketball? Or is it about his not knowing about winning? Or is it about something else?

Why are you being facetious? You know full well he's being snubbed because of the lack of "fire" in his performance with Graves in "Airplane".

Racial prejudice has changed it's perspective. I feel it coming from blacks more than whites, nowadays.

[tonyz]

Regarding KAJ - being a great player does not necessarily translate into being a great coach.

The athletic world is littered with great players - that were terrible coaches - and great coaches that were relatively terrible players.

Give me results and not reasons.

And, that ain't no code.

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by Dusty

Why are you being facetious? You know full well he's being snubbed because of the lack of "fire" in his performance with Graves in "Airplane".

I'd have thought it was for his work with Bruce Lee in Game of Death.

Originally Posted by Dusty

Racial prejudice has changed it's perspective. I feel it coming from blacks more than whites, nowadays.

MOO, one of the many reasons why racism in America remains a difficult topic to discuss is that we hold to binary conceptualizations. We strive to talk in terms of black and white (pun intended) without discussing also the myriad tones of grey. And I think that there's a difference between accounting for the role of racism in our past and present and holding individuals and groups accountable for the past by punishing them in the present.

Originally Posted by tonyz

Regarding KAJ - being a great player does not necessarily translate into being a great coach.

My POV is not that KAJ would be a great coach but that he has the background as a player and as an assistant coach that indicate he's qualified to get an interview for a job as a head coach in the NBA.

Originally Posted by tonyz

The athletic world is littered with great players - that were terrible coaches - and great coaches that were relatively terrible players.

The NBA has also had great players who became outstanding coaches. This list includes Tom Heinsohn and Bill Sharman.

Originally Posted by tonyz

Give me results and not reasons.

And, that ain't no code.

How can a person produce results in the NBA if he's never given a team to coach?

[TXGringo]

Originally Posted by afchic

Can we put this in the funniest quotes of the year thread?

You don't know many minorities do you? I know this may surprise you but there are any number of people that are descriminated againt for many different reasons. The simple fact that our current POTUS is a black man does not change the fact that many blacks in this country are still descriminated against.

Same can and will be said when the first woman is elected, or the first hispanic, etc. There will always be descrimination in one form or another. The fact that one glass ceiling has been broken does not mean it will no longer occur.

So only minorities are discriminated against? I vote THIS for funniest quote.

My old man always jokes about his time with HFD. Apparently, him and his buddies suffered from WHS, or "white male syndrome." You know, passed up for promotions, box and station assignments, etc...

For what it's worth, I agree that there will always be discrimination. But to imply that it only happens to minorities is truly laughable...

There could be a whole host of reasons why KAJ is not a head coach. There have been 56 African American head coaches in the NBA since '66 four of which have won championships. Less than 10%.

http://hoopedia.nba.com/index.php?ti...A_Head_Coaches

I am not so certain his skin color has anything to do with it IMO.

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by afchic

I know this may surprise you but there are any number of people that are discriminated against for many different reasons.

Originally Posted by TXGringo

So only minorities are discriminated against? I vote THIS for funniest quote.

How do you get "only" from "any" and "many"?

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by Sarski

There could be a whole host of reasons why KAJ is not a head coach. There have been 56 African American head coaches in the NBA since '66 four of which have won championships. Less than 10%.

http://hoopedia.nba.com/index.php?ti...A_Head_Coaches

I am not so certain his skin color has anything to do with it IMO.

In the course of your research did you compare the less than <10% rate of for black coaches winning the championship to white coaches winning the championship? Is it your argument that there's a correlation between a coach's skin color and the probability of his team winning the championship? Are you saying that coaches in the NBA are hired primarily based upon the criterion of winning the championship?

In any case, your post is a serviceable thumbnail of a dilemma many Americans face in their everyday lives today: not knowing one way or another why the ball does or does not bounce a certain way.

IMO, a part of the fix is creating more opportunities for Americans from different backgrounds to compare notes. For some, the chalk talk may provide opportunities to reexamine long standing assumptions. For others, the conversations might lead to looking in the mirror. I don't know how many opportunities we can generate, though, if the preferred conversation remains "It is the other guy's fault."

(And to round out the numbers, there have been a total of 298 head coaches in The Association, 217 since the 1966-67 season.)

[TXGringo]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

How do you get "only" from "any" and "many"?

When she started it with "you don't know many minorities do you?" IMO, it was implied. Just like when you implied that KAJ hasn't gotten a head coaching gig because he's black. Which is also laughable.