Sig Sauer P229

[jbour13]

Originally Posted by Sarski

Yes, sir, I definately fall into the tactically inept category. But still I wonder then, why this individual (retired four years ago as a US Marshal) would elect to carry his CCW in this fashion. Is there a tactical advantage to it (versus holstered or in a fanny pack), or is it just not practical?

Please forgive my limited knowledge in these matters and understand that this is one of the reasons I am here (as a guest/asset) on PS.com.

Don't know what motivates people. IMHO, it's laziness and could be attributed to so much more. Competency isn't something that is just taught and kept locked away. It comes from mastering the basics, and never ever settling for "good enough" or "I'm good enough to do whatever I want".

Being an adult has enough inherent responsibilities, being a gun owner and one that carries, well has much more.

To answer your earlier question, no matter the size of his hands, the coat can and most likely will snag and force the gun to malfunction. What person sets themselves up for failure in a gunfight or where there is a chance of injury or death defeats the purpose of having an incentive to defend yourself.

Your friend may just be over confident in his ability and needs to be retrained in my opinion. But, I don't know him and will reserve judgment.

There are a whole host of issues with the pocketed gun. The myriad of scenarios that come to mind are counter to why you carry in the first place. Now, there is a chance where a pocketed gun comes in handy. That is if the perpetrator has already got you at a disadvantage with a weapon. Even then, how many times have you or this friend trained by firing the same gun from the pocketed position? Not recommended, but still, how many times?

Say your friend is involved in a physical altercation, then what? The gun is tumbled in the pocket, the pocket can't be reached. Is your friend familiar with the art of Monkey Stomp? That gun is useless unless you can get it into the fight.

Untested methods are a recipe for disaster and luck favors the prepared. Too many variables, but there are only a few of many that offer a chance. Odds are gravely stacked in the other person's favor.

Best of luck.

jbour13:

Wow, fantastic assesment, and for not knowing my friend you are probably
pretty accurate in the points you bring up (the laziness, overconfidence...). Thanks again for providing some insight into this.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Sarski

Yes, sir, I definately fall into the tactically inept category. But still I wonder then, why this individual (retired four years ago as a US Marshal) would elect to carry his CCW in this fashion. Is there a tactical advantage to it (versus holstered or in a fanny pack), or is it just not practical?

Please forgive my limited knowledge in these matters and understand that this is one of the reasons I am here (as a guest/asset) on PS.com.

Length of service is no guarantee of proficiency or expertise. IMHO, the PPK is an outdated and unnecessarily large and heavy pistol for a .380. OTOH, if he is good with it, and well-practiced, and understands the limitations, that may be a good choice for him.

I frequently carry a pistol in my pocket as well, but I have no intention of firing it from there. If you already have a jacket on, a holstered carry is the best way to go.

Putting the pistol into action from a pocket carry is significantly different from either employing a revolver or drawing from a holster, and you have to understand those limitations.

Your SA is the key, as it should permit you to put the weapon into the fight early enough to be a factor. If you can put your hand on the weapon, draw it, and make ready to fire BEFORE your opponent does, your technique was fine. If you are carrying a race gun in a speed rig, and do not have the SA to identify and respond to the threat in a timely manner, you are SOL. It isn't the gun, or carry method, as much as it is the mindset and ability to respond to threats in a timely fashion, that puts you inside your opponent's OODA Loop.

Perfect practice (not just practice) makes perfect. Rehearsal and training are the keys to proficiency. Holstered carry is the fastest carry right after gun in hand. If you are switched on and focused on the threat, you can draw and fire from a holster carry in less than one second. A fanny pack would probably take a couple of seconds, if it doesn't get fumbled. A draw and fire from a pocket carry is likely a three second proposition, assuming practice and no snags. If you ID the threat soon enough to have your weapon out of your pocket and in your hand ready to fire, you have negated the deficiencies of the carry technique. Taken by surprise, well, you have the rest of your life to solve your tactical dilemma.

As stated, if you have to fire an auto pistol from within the pocket, you are going to get one round and one chance, IF you are carrying in Condition One with a round in the chamber. Then to continue the fight, you will have to draw AND reduce a stoppage.

Your LE friend may be aware of these limitations, or he may just be lazy/unproficient. You could always ask him how he plans to use the pistol if he encounters an unexpected threat, and if he has ever practiced drawing and firing, or firing from the pocket, if that is his intent. A PACT timer or a Simunitions enagement might demonstrate the problems with the pocket carry. If he had never practiced, or plans to shoot from inside the pocket, I would stay away from him.

Hope that helps.

TR

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Entire post...Hope that helps.

TR

Yes, sir. Thank you for such detailed comment and tactical consideration / instruction. So much for me to learn.

[kgoerz]

We had Sig's when I was an LEO. We replaced them with Glocks. Why would anyone carry a Sig concealed I don't know. When there is much lighter and slicker guns out there. First shot is going to be the most important. Why use a gun that forces you to fire the first shot on double action.
I just traded by SIG 220 for a Glock 19. I want something I can easily stick in my pants when getting out of the car, checking the mail..etc.

[R3V3LATIONS]

I agree with KGoerz. IMO, the sigs are to heavy to CCW, IWB or OWB. I never have CCW'd one, and when I do decide to bring a pistol around, its generally my Glock 17, which is getting phased out with a 19 sometime this year for my EDC. But I'd go to the range, with an idea of how you want to carry, and try different firearms from that position/method.

Good luck and Stay Safe

[Big Daddy]

If I may, I suggest you take a look at the Sig 239. It is a superb weapon available in 9mm,357Sig or 40 S&W, your choice. Think of it as a small 225 or 229. I have ccw'd one for appx. 3 years without sa problem