Left behind?

[Utah Bob]

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nati...e98376377.html

[35NCO]

A very tragic story if proven true.

I remember reading about this incident in several different books. Including Roberts Ridge.

The commentary and recollection was that the UAV feed was very confusing to understand whom was who and what exactly was going on. I seem to remember there was several discussions that when his body was finally recovered, there was a lot of questions about how it got there. There was dismissive claims that it was dragged there. But also that he was already dead, and his "Ghost" fought back. Then finally, that he had survived and fought for awhile, after being left.

Sounds like the entire situation was as bad as it gets. Only those that were there will really ever know. If something wrong did happen, hopefully that gets exposed. If not the case, may they rest in peace living and dead.

Prayers and support to those who lost loved ones. May they all be remembered.

[Basenshukai]

What happened on that ridge has been debated for a while. I was not there, so I'm not going to add uninformed conclusions to the debate. But, I will say this, it makes zero sense to take an OP by force by landing your big, noisy, aircraft right on top of it. And, to think that the SEALs were part of a recon team whose leadership should have known better. Sound tactics at the beginning of this operation would have avoided this whole mess.

It's the same with the "Lone Survivor" SEALs. This is their PACE plan for commo:

P- AN/PRC-148 (to communicate from a freaking mountainous ridge to the only support they have)
A- Sat Phone (Seriously?)
C- None
E- None

Again, just terrible TTPs leading to good men suffering and dying.

[miclo18d]

Originally Posted by Basenshukai

What happened on that ridge has been debated for a while. I was not there, so I'm not going to add uninformed conclusions to the debate. But, I will say this, it makes zero sense to take an OP by force by landing your big, noisy, aircraft right on top of it. And, to think that the SEALs were part of a recon team whose leadership should have known better. Sound tactics at the beginning of this operation would have avoided this whole mess.

It's the same with the "Lone Survivor" SEALs. This is their PACE plan for commo:

P- AN/PRC-148 (to communicate from a freaking mountainous ridge to the only support they have)
A- Sat Phone (Seriously?)
C- None
E- None

Again, just terrible TTPs leading to good men suffering and dying.

I know this acronym changes with Colonels underwear but OKOCA (when I learned it: Observation, Concealment and Cover, Obstacles, Key Terrain and Avenues of Approach. The enemy gets that too. They thought they would just walz up onto the highest mountain (covers nearly all the acronym) and drop bombs on bad guys..... Unopposed! With that PACE plan! Without the next crypto change!

The reason SF never does high speed shit in combat is that we're always planning sensible missions! What's wrong with us?

[Golf1echo]

Many poignant lessons were taken away from ANACONDA, the Roberts Ridge (Takur Ghar) incident and subsequent actions. Command and Control, remote operations in mountainous terrain, CAS, Targeting, etc... While my perspective is from the outside observing what was made public, reading between the lines many folks including members on this board have worked hard to process those lessons to improve similar operations. With many mountain operations inherent indigenous factors add complex challenges due to terrain and general conditions.

Someone familiar with the the timeline and actions would be able to comment regarding the following account as it is an from 2011: http://www.combatreform.org/realmountaindivision.htm

Takur Ghar after the snow melt...

[glebo]

/\ /\ /\ hitting the "like" button

[Old Dog New Trick]

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

I would like to make the point we did not learn these lessons. We forgot these lessons and relearned them with blood in operation Anaconda. I don't have any insider info either.

Snip

My point is not only do we forget the basics, I think we underestimate our enemy the last few conflicts. If we ever get into it with a major power that is not third world these lessons we ignore would be even more costly than they have been. The current state of affairs with our military is not promising since they are more worried about being PC and sensitive than they are about being effective.

Sorry for ranting and no disrespect is intended towards anyone in the operation. Just the opposite, I have lots of respect for men that were handed a shit sandwich with extra shit, ate it, and did the best they could under harsh circumstances.

Good thoughts but I wanted make one point clearer. At the beginning of everything and I mean every war ever fought by the US. It's not so much that we underestimate our opponents as much as we overestimate ourselves. As the great Sir. Winston Churchill once quipped: You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.

What amazes me most about this whole affair is that if they had a drone that could capture the battle (rescue) down to who's who, why was the LZ recon so f'd up before inserting the team directly into a shit sammich. Those decisions come down rather than up and yet the people at CJSOTF blame a Sr. Chief for the actions on the ground.

I'm not going to knock the SEALs as this would have been the same results for any unit tasked with this mission.

Rest in peace to the fallen and to those that carry the memories of that day.

As far as whether congress and the president approve the MOH for TSGT Chapman's actions after being left for dead in a heated gun fight that's up to them. Many more living and dead have bravely fought above and beyond and have been awarded medals undeserving of their sacrifice.

If this is only about the Air Force feeling left out of the medals ceremony, cry me a river; this isn't the Olympics. TSGT John Chapman and all who died on that mountain didn't give all for medals.

[scooter]

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

Good thoughts but I wanted make one point clearer. At the beginning of everything and I mean every war ever fought by the US. It's not so much that we underestimate our opponents as much as we overestimate ourselves. As the great Sir. Winston Churchill once quipped: You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.

I have conversations with my peers regularly about how a war with China or Russia might play out, and the universal opinion is something along the lines of "We're America! Of course we'd kick their ass!"

I find this amusing, in a scary way.

All of our land warfare capabilities are essentially the same as the end of the Cold War, and we have deactivated or reduced a number of the more useful ones (like cluster munitions). Meanwhile, they've studied the shit out of us and have adapted their gear and doctrine specifically to counter us. We're overly focused on chasing bronze age guys around mud huts.

I'd say with a good deal of certainty that Russia/China are much more prepared to fight us today than we are prepared to fight them.

[bushmaster11]

Subordinates slacking off? Productivity down? Well the perfect solution is at hand. North Korean leader has produced an astonishing method that guarantees designed to cure the slackers by a quantum leap.

The following article is comes on the heel of an execution of 2 senior staff, an execution with the use of antiaircraft guns.

Kim Jong-un had his education vice premier executed by firing squad
Dictator was infuriated by Kim Yong Jin's poor posture during a meeting
He was interrogated and found to be an 'anti-revolutionary agitator'
Another aide with an 'overbearing attitude' was sent to work on a farm

By Ollie Gillman for MailOnline

Published: 04:05 EST, 1 September 2016


Kim Jong-un has executed a senior North Korean official by firing squad because he did not sit properly during a meeting.

Education minister Kim Yong-Jin, 63, was shot dead after his 'bad sitting posture' in parliament incurred the wrath of the North Korean dictator.

The slouching vice premier was interrogated and found to be an 'anti-revolutionary agitator' before his execution in July, a South Korean official said.


Kim Jong-un has executed education vice premier Kim Yong Jin (circled) by firing squad because he did not sit properly during a meeting.


Kim Jong-un has executed education vice premier Kim Yong Jin (circled) by firing squad because he did not sit properly during a meeting

'Vice premier for education Kim Yong-Jin was executed,' South Korea's unification ministry spokesman Jeong Joon-hee said.

'Kim Yong-Jin was denounced for his bad sitting posture when he was sitting below the rostrum,' he added, referring to North Korea's parliament.

Kim Jong-un was in the government meeting and was infuriated after Kim Yong-Jin sat in his chair 'with a bad attitude'.

Another South Korean official said the education official's poor posture was spotted at a meeting on June 29, when Kim Jong-un was named chairman of a new national defence department.


North Korea executes vice premier in latest purge.


'The trouble for Kim began after he was seen sitting with bad attitude during a meeting of the People's Supreme Assembly,' the official told South Korean newspaper JoongAng Daily.

'He was later accused of being anti-revolutionary following a probe and a firing squad execution was carried out in July,' he added.

Kim Yong-chol, another North Korean official, was sent an 'ideological re-education' farm for a month in June and July because of his 'overbearing attitude'.

Meanwhile Choe Hwi, vice director of North Korea's propaganda and agitation department, has been sent to a similar camp.





Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4J5WPxA40
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


J R sends
DOL

[Sohei]

Lil Kim needs to be thrown over someones knees and spanked like the child he is and then caned for hours on end until he can't stand.

Then made to suck on a pacifier like an infant for the rest of his life since that's how he acts.

Loser....