Wounded Vet Heckled at Columbia

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Richard

........

I also think that such boorish behavior reflects most upon those who behave in such a way - no matter where it comes from or who does it.

Richard

So his actions were boorish?

[ZonieDiver]

Originally Posted by Todd 1

How about those students at Columbia just shut the fuck up and go down to Texas and help build a house.

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...ad.php?t=32478


I'm sorry for my language.

Just sayin'.........and so it goes......YMMV

To paraphrase John Wayne as Ethan Edwards in 'The Searchers' - "That'll be the damned day!"

[Richard]

Originally Posted by Pete

So his actions were boorish?

Based on the article, I certainly don't think so; do you?

Richard

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Richard

Based on the article, I certainly don't think so; do you?

Richard

No, just wondering if you thought he was from your post.

After all, he knew better than to try and talk about such a subject in such a place.

[dennisw]

"Racist!" some students yelled at Anthony Maschek, a Columbia freshman and former Army staff sergeant awarded the Purple Heart after being shot 11 times in a firefight in northern Iraq in February 2008. Others hissed and booed the veteran.

Aside from these students being complete douchebags, I don't understand the racist comments. Are transgender folks a considered a different race now?

Richard said:

Does anyone think a student like Maschek was naive enough to think his appearance in front of such a foum at a university like Columbia over a long-standing 'hot button' campus political topic would not garner such a response from his fellow students?

I wouldn't expect every students to agree with this American hero, but I would think they would have the good manners to not boo and jeer. But then again, I have been accused of being naive at times.

They have dishonored their university, their parents and their country.

[Saturation]

Originally Posted by dennisw

They have dishonored their university, their parents and their country.

AMEN!

[ArmyStrong]

The "laughing and jeering" part of this article has pissed me off to no end.

What happened to being able to respect another man's opinion, even if you disagree with him? SSG Maschek has earned that respect a hundred times over. These clowns need a good ass kicking to set them straight.

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by dennisw

Aside from these students being complete douchebags, I don't understand the racist comments. Are transgender folks a considered a different race now?

The argument is two fold. First, the American armed services disproportionately fill their ranks with citizens who are not white. Second, the American armed services fight immoral wars against nations populated by non whites. (Source is here.) FWIW, these two arguments arc back at least to the 1960s. While the former has been discredited by scholars including Ronald Spector, the latter has not quite been hashed out by eggheads in a way that would please Hegel.

Originally Posted by dennisw

I wouldn't expect every students to agree with this American hero, but I would think they would have the good manners to not boo and jeer. But then again, I have been accused of being naive at times.

Is it unreasonable to expect young people to respond passionately to a topic in which they're emotionally invested?

Originally Posted by dennisw

They have dishonored their university, their parents and their country.

MOO, this sentiment is a bit extreme. Americans--both citizens and citizen soldiers--have sacrificed a lot for our freedoms. How does exercising freedom of speech--regardless of our own personal opinions of that speech--dishonor America? (And if we really want elite universities to be populated by students who don't get hot and bothered about something, we may as well pull the plug on the entire American educational system right now.)

Two additional points. First, if we who want ROTC battalions on as many campuses as possible are going to get this upset over jeering, how are we going to make it through the long haul as (hopefully) more battalions come on line and aspiring officers and their instructors encounter lingering dissent?

Second, yesterday, TR offered what IMO is a sustainable winnable approach to the 2012 elections when he spoke of making "inroads" among some of the president's core constituencies <<LINK>>. While he was specifically referring to non whites and to women, I think the sentiment [that] "we need to expand our inroads to these groups, not offend them" also applies to today's students.

Granted, this kind of outreach with students isn't always easy. (The fact that I've made a living counting beans of various types the last eleven years rather than teaching speaks volumes.) Still, when we let our umbrage get in the way of grappling with the complexities of issues such as ROTC on college campuses, whom do we really help?

My $0.02.

[Gypsy]

Someone needs to teach all those jackasses a lesson in respect at the very least.

[echoes]

These little pissant students could use a couple of good old fashioned bitch-slaps for their rudeness and lack of respect!

Holly

[Masochist]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

Second, the American armed services fight immoral wars against nations populated by non whites. (Source is here.) FWIW, these two arguments arc back at least to the 1960s. While the former has been discredited by scholars including Ronald Spector, the latter has not quite been hashed out by eggheads in a way that would please Hegel.

Well explained.

Originally Posted by Sigaba

Is it unreasonable to expect young people to respond passionately to a topic in which they're emotionally invested?

Originally Posted by Sigaba

How does exercising freedom of speech--regardless of our own personal opinions of that speech--dishonor America? (And if we really want elite universities to be populated by students who don't get hot and bothered about something, we may as well pull the plug on the entire American educational system right now.)

It is not unreasonable to expect young (or old, for that matter) people to respond passionately. But passionately does not need to be ignorantly or obnoxiously. One can respond with a passionate argument without resorting to booing or laughing. For some that believe they are elite for attending an "elite" school, one would think they could find it in themselves to not act boorish and immature. Is this how they will act after graduation, when confronted with opposing viewpoints in the boardroom? It's a matter of common courtesy and maturity.

[Barbarian]

That's the kind of dishonorable behavior I would expect from hipsters (read idiots) whom are living and attending an ivy league school on their likely wealthy parent's dime. These fools consider themselves to be intellectuals, when they've most likely never had to struggle for anything, including safety or freedom, which has been secured on their behalf by SSG Maschek and others like him.

These little pissant students could use a couple of good old fashioned bitch-slaps for their rudeness and lack of respect!

Holly

Frickin' aye, girl!

[Guy]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

FWIW, these two arguments arc back at least to the 1960s. While the former has been discredited by scholars including Ronald Spector...

I could discredit that accusation through "first hand" knowledge.

Stay safe.

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by Masochist

It is not unreasonable to expect young (or old, for that matter) people to respond passionately. But passionately does not need to be ignorantly or obnoxiously. One can respond with a passionate argument without resorting to booing or laughing. For some that believe they are elite for attending an "elite" school, one would think they could find it in themselves to not act boorish and immature. Is this how they will act after graduation, when confronted with opposing viewpoints in the boardroom? It's a matter of common courtesy and maturity.

A long time ago, a lower middler at one of America's most prestigious preparatory schools made a snarky about the California State University system. The joke was meant to ease his anxiety as his faced his first Hell Week. Unfortunately for him, the dean of students, Mr. P. Rick Mahoney, heard the remark and called him into his office. The Socractic ass chewing that followed lasted about fifteen seconds. The student in question never made that type of comment again. (Fortunately, he had many other barbs and arrows in his quiver of trash talking.)

Many years later, the same student was on the campus of the University of Texas when the event described here took place.

The point I'm trying to make is that, notwithstanding the popular (mis)conceptions about the Ivory Tower, there are a whole lot of students who will learn what they may need to know if we don't confuse the humbling lesson with the humiliating lesson.

YMMV.

[silentreader]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Where is the POTUS on this issue?

TR

Sir,

I believe that the President addressed the ROTC issue fairly strongly in his State of the Union. Unless you're asking why Obama hasn't criticized these students, in which case I think the answer would be that they don't merit his time.

Originally Posted by sinjefe

There is nothing wrong with a difference of opinion on going to war. I don't have a problem with their point of view on Iraq or Afghanistan. I do have a problem with their behavior and disrespect. That is what is shameful.

I agree with this. One of the cornerstones of productive discourse is respect. While I have no problem with passionate debate, I don't see how the dissenters advance their cause by acting like spoiled children.

That being said, reading this article and others on it in the student newspaper lead me to believe that it was a more respectful meeting than the NYPost would like its readers to believe.

Jose Robledo, GS, a University senator, and ROTC cadet said that while the town hall was “a lot more civilized” than ROTC discussions in years past, he was disappointed by the arguments that were made.

As for that last part, I do think that those interested in defending the military have to know their audience. Quite frankly, not many people in academia are going to buy the whole there are a lot of bad people out there that want to kill us argument. This, this, and this all strike me as examples of arguments that are likely to resonate more with the target audience.