We The People Will Fund The Wall Go Fund Me

[Badger52]

I remember walking around the inner scaffolding of the little castle at Rothenburg ob der Tauber. It had been restored by folks (Disney project, Brothers Grimm tales IIRC) and, in many hands tradition, one got their name put on a brick inside for restoration of 'X' meters of wall. Just spitballin' but it would be kinda cool to see how many miles of wall that GFM page would translate to - especially if NOT done by Gubmint layers. Just from GFM to contractor.

Ok, that's my Confectioner's Sugar thought for this Christmas Eve before I go finish ammo inventory.

And to those downrange...

MERRY CHRISTMAS

[Stobey]

A very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all QPs and all on this board!

[echoes]

Originally Posted by Badger52

I remember walking around the inner scaffolding of the little castle at Rothenburg ob der Tauber. It had been restored by folks (Disney project, Brothers Grimm tales IIRC) and, in many hands tradition, one got their name put on a brick inside for restoration of 'X' meters of wall. Just spitballin' but it would be kinda cool to see how many miles of wall that GFM page would translate to - especially if NOT done by Gubmint layers. Just from GFM to contractor.

Ok, that's my Confectioner's Sugar thought for this Christmas Eve before I go finish ammo inventory.

And to those downrange...

MERRY CHRISTMAS

B52,

Very well said!!!


MERRY CHRISTMAS to ALL SF who are in harms way, and to ALL on PS.

Lots of luv for you guys!!!


Holly & sis

[tom kelly]

Seems a lot of people are putting up CASH to build a WALL to KEEP THE ILLEGALS out. I am willing to contribute. tom kelly MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL SF

[abc_123]

Currently at $17.4M. I'm in. More at $20M!

However we all know that if they asked for armed volunteers to keep illegals out, with and OK to shoot on sight... we'd have an army within days and negligible illegal immigration after that.

[Badger52]

Originally Posted by abc_123

Currently at $17.4M. I'm in. More at $20M!

However we all know that if they asked for armed volunteers to keep illegals out, with and OK to shoot on sight... we'd have an army within days and negligible illegal immigration after that.

Friend & I were discussing this tonight as I stopped by to pickup an old teardrop forward assist from him. He scratched his beard & pondered what the billable would be for something with rotors, and a really loud, thirsty gun, operating out of Arizona... as he moved over by his blue progressive machine. Just FOGs musing across the counter...

[JJ_BPK]

$17,440,962 raised by 286,995 people in 10 days


The Petition is also doing well..

2,984,722 SIGNATURES <<<< has not moved in 15hrs????

we the people WILL FUND the wall!

LETS GET 100 MILLION SIGNATURES DEMANDING OUR GOVERNMENT FUND AND BUILD THE WALL!

Green button takes you to the 'official' GoFundMe.

SIGN YOUR NAME BELOW LETTING POLITICIANS KNOW YOU WANT THE WALL
Petition is fully confidential


https://wefundthewall.com/?fbclid=Iw...ZQslCF7iPzfISs

[Golf1echo]

A little perspective on the border. In 1986 I had the opportunity to accompany different Border Patrol agents in the course of their work out of the Tucson Station. What I came away with was respect for the men and women who were doing such a challenging job. Even back then, thirty years ago, there were many challenges, man power, resources, congressional interference, local agendas, and money. It was very interesting hearing the perspective from the people on the ground. They cared about the sovereignty of our country as well as the people their paths crossed with. They treated most of the aliens with respect even using their own money to feed the women and children abandon by coyotes in the dark desert nights.

In those days many aliens would be puzzled by the question of asylum...they knew they were here illegally...but even then efforts to subvert our system were at work even by our own people. IIRC the quota was 850,000 people were admitted to the US every year in various categories. It occurred to me then that was the size of Tucson's and surrounding areas population, where will all these people live, not to mention what they described as the millions and millions already here illegally ( no one really knew how many had come unauthorized).

We haven't built new towns and cities over that time and indeed our current municipalities have expanded into densely populated population centers, crowded roads and highways, higher taxes and benefit packages for those that aren't contributing as citizens, etc... It is a complicated system but few of us think we are getting things under control.

An engineer is trained in obstacles, he knows alone they are marginally effective, he knows in a system they are effective for channeling and control. It is very difficult for me to believe we are wrong to be concerned with the sovereignty of our borders, the rest of the world isn't so why should we be wrong...the best functioning countries are so because of how well they operate and control their borders.


....it speaks to me volumes about the message of those who would oppose such a position, it tells me their agenda is not mine. I care about this country and it's legacy that belongs to our children not the random world...especially not a pointless political agenda based in the power shares of politicians.

The costs are high in so many ways, the illegals know exactly what the loopholes are, how to use our system, where the benefits are, who will support them and how to beat the system before they get here. The cost is one we all pay, more importantly it is our children's legacy.

Images from one of the outings into the Tohono O'Daham Nation Reservation near Baboquivvari Peak Wilderness South of Sells AZ. Images include.
Images include the US Mexican border and it's cattle guard crossing, a column of illegal aliens ( 18 count), Transportation of illegals back to the station for deportation.

[bblhead672]

Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration

$117 Billion per year buys we the people a lot of walls!

[plato]

Originally Posted by bblhead672

Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration

$117 Billion per year buys we the people a lot of walls!

The chart/study is slightly flawed. Checking analyses done for the Govt. was my "bread and butter" before 9/11 when regional EOC's were dumped in my lap.

I'll offer the analysis I did for my nephew (typical Kalifornian).

5 basketball players, earning $1,000,000 each are paying taxes on 5 Mil.
Along comes Pedro, displacing one. (as long as there are those seeking jobs, an American is displaced by each illegal).

We now have 5 players paying taxes on $5 Mil, just like before. There is no contribution on the plus side.

However, 4 of the 5 original players now have the burden of paying into social programs to support the displaced American. That displaced American has certainly not profited from the fact that Pedro is paying taxes. The results also go into the negative column.

When my division was in the business of analyzing studies going forward to D.C., we found 80% or more were flawed. (Folks at Rand still grit their teeth when they hear my name. )

When it comes to studies such as the above, I imagine the flaw rate is even higher

[WarriorDiplomat]

Originally Posted by plato

The chart/study is slightly flawed. Checking analyses done for the Govt. was my "bread and butter" before 9/11 when regional EOC's were dumped in my lap.

I'll offer the analysis I did for my nephew (typical Kalifornian).

5 basketball players, earning $1,000,000 each are paying taxes on 5 Mil.
Along comes Pedro, displacing one. (as long as there are those seeking jobs, an American is displaced by each illegal).

We now have 5 players paying taxes on $5 Mil, just like before. There is no contribution on the plus side.

However, 4 of the 5 original players now have the burden of paying into social programs to support the displaced American. That displaced American has certainly not profited from the fact that Pedro is paying taxes. The results also go into the negative column.

When my division was in the business of analyzing studies going forward to D.C., we found 80% or more were flawed. (Folks at Rand still grit their teeth when they hear my name. )

When it comes to studies such as the above, I imagine the flaw rate is even higher

Would it be fair to assume that your nephew is of the impression that the illegal displaces no one because he simply takes the available job that is not filled because an American will not do it?

I agree completely on the wall but I will share my experience from working nearly 7 years in meat packing plants in my hometown....the job was physical, dirty and demanding with low pay in the 80's I started at 7.39 per hr....all I heard from the people in my town was the Mexicans were taking all our jobs this was during the 80's prior to NAFTA, Every year at least a few times a year the immigration folks would show up at the plant with 5-6 buses and rounded up the illegals or as they were called by locals the Mojados, the plant would go from 7/24hr to 7/12hr or more if people would stay. Every monday new hires were brought in during orientation on a tour of the plant. What really irked me was these same guys who claimed they could not get a job never asked for the jobs the Mexicans vacated when deported and stayed home and kept complaining.....a few weeks later the same Mexicans would start filtering back in under new names.

So I understand the argument that their are jobs most Americans will not do and their are jobs Americans will not try to excel at where these illegals and some legals will not only work the will work hard to provide for their family.....the issues in my hometown? the Vaqueros and the cattle trade have a long intertwined history in America especially in my hometown....they do jobs others would rather not that we need done.

The major issue is the welfare network they can navigate like professionals.....this is the draw today the ones I knew worked hard and were tough hombres but the flip side was the free healthcare they finagled the food stamps and the money they sent back home to Mexico. They developed their own black markets, bars, stores, car dealerships etc....and now because with a second possibly third generation there from my time the sense of entitlement has set in and the town is now a liberal democrat area with the growth of welfare programs that cater to them.....this is the road we have gone down the welfare system is well known they share the knowledge and now they even have family members working in the social services jobs making sure the system is exploited to the fullest.

[Golf1echo]

Plato, I’ve been curious for a long while just how many illegal aliens are in this country? I don’t know if you have any insights into that ... birth rates, immigration, foreign speakers, politics in general indicate wild inaccuracies have been made by the talking heads.

Insightful comment Warriordiplomat, we discussed it before here, there are cultural accouterments that go along with immigration, some good and some destructive... my impression was our Founding Fathers tried to protect us from the later. Experiential observation has shown me many examples of the undercurrent you speak of.

As for work programs they used to be an asset to farmers, industry and general need, the problem is they have to be administered and enforced.

Until the majority of Americans see the sovereignty of this country as a value for its citizenry and their children erosion will result. There are countries that operate by celebrating and valuing their sovereignty with great success.

https://cis.org/One-Five-US-Resident...rd-618-million

https://cis.org/Report/Almost-Half-S...Largest-Cities

[plato]

Originally Posted by WarriorDiplomat

Would it be fair to assume that your nephew is of the impression that the illegal displaces no one because he simply takes the available job that is not filled because an American will not do it?

I agree completely on the wall but I will share my experience from working nearly 7 years in meat packing plants in my hometown....the job was physical, dirty and demanding with low pay in the 80's I started at 7.39 per hr....all I heard from the people in my town was the Mexicans were taking all our jobs this was during the 80's prior to NAFTA, Every year at least a few times a year the immigration folks would show up at the plant with 5-6 buses and rounded up the illegals or as they were called by locals the Mojados, the plant would go from 7/24hr to 7/12hr or more if people would stay. Every monday new hires were brought in during orientation on a tour of the plant. What really irked me was these same guys who claimed they could not get a job never asked for the jobs the Mexicans vacated when deported and stayed home and kept complaining.....a few weeks later the same Mexicans would start filtering back in under new names.

So I understand the argument that their are jobs most Americans will not do and their are jobs Americans will not try to excel at where these illegals and some legals will not only work the will work hard to provide for their family.....the issues in my hometown? the Vaqueros and the cattle trade have a long intertwined history in America especially in my hometown....they do jobs others would rather not that we need done.

The major issue is the welfare network they can navigate like professionals.....this is the draw today the ones I knew worked hard and were tough hombres but the flip side was the free healthcare they finagled the food stamps and the money they sent back home to Mexico. They developed their own black markets, bars, stores, car dealerships etc....and now because with a second possibly third generation there from my time the sense of entitlement has set in and the town is now a liberal democrat area with the growth of welfare programs that cater to them.....this is the road we have gone down the welfare system is well known they share the knowledge and now they even have family members working in the social services jobs making sure the system is exploited to the fullest.

I think my nephew's liberal views are simply based on being a city boy. Water comes out of the faucet. Food is waiting at the grocery store. Basically, life is handled by public and private institutions. A person should simply be able to float down the stream.

We recently had a "Water is a basic human right" movement here in Detroit by those who don't believe in paying water bills. Pretty indicative, I'd say.

Me? I'm from Appalachia. I worked on farms for $.35 per hour, $.50 if the owner decided I'd kept up with the adults well enough. Water was hauled from your well or a neighbor's. Chicken was ready about an hour after Grandma handed you the hatchet. And I wasn't a "rare bird" in the area. There were plenty of classmates out in those fields. When you see the human effort to produce what we need, it's hard to think of them as "entitlements". Therein, I think, lies the difference. I was not born into a world custom made to receive me. The entitled seem to chafe at any imperfect fit.

There were no jobs "Americans will not do" when they're hungry enough. The social system, when I was 12 consisted mostly of relatives. It's much harder to look one in the eye and ask for money while you sat on your backside, than fill out a form and wait for the check in the mail.

Yes, the welfare network needs an overhaul. It should be closed to illegal immigrants, and tight for citizens. Falsification should have some severe penalties. Of course, as long as liberals can buy votes, it won't happen unless it's after the revolution.

[Hand]

Originally Posted by Golf1echo

Imagine for a minute... maybe we don’t need so many politicians, we just fund the projects we want, while I understand some of the pitfalls of such an endeavor if this works imagine, the people would hold more credible power and those at the Capitals a little less.

Jesus, that gave me chills. Imagine...
I imagine some of the pitfalls over time would average out to be less undesirable than having 0 control of where our dear leaders carelessly throw our tax dollars.

[Old Dog New Trick]

An entrepreneurial person could start a GFM to support American tax payers to support welfare, EBT (Food Stamps), and the free lunch program at public schools...

Target $100 Billion/Annually

Raised so far - forty packs of cigarettes, a used lottery scratch ticket, and two of a dozen enriched hotdog buns and a WWJD - Save the Climate bumper-sticker!