02-20-2004, 13:19
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#1
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Supreme Court will Hear Padilla Case
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Supreme Court said on Friday it would decide whether President Bush has the power to order an American citizen seized on U.S. soil held as an enemy combatant in another case arising from Washington's war on terror.
Expanding its review of the government's actions, the high court agreed to decide the case of Jose Padilla, who has been held since May 2002 as a suspect in an alleged al Qaeda plot to detonate a radioactive "dirty bomb" in the United States.
His case involved fundamental constitutional questions about Bush's powers as commander in chief. It has pitted the government's national security arguments adopted after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks against concerns that civil liberties have been violated.
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This should be interesting
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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02-20-2004, 13:51
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#2
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Anyone else here feel that we toss the term "American citizen" around way to liberally, and it is far to easy a title to earn?
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
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The Reaper is offline
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02-20-2004, 19:56
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#3
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Area Commander
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Yes, Sir, I do.
I was blessed to be born in America and to enjoy the freedoms and rights afforded to me as a citizen, but never do I take them for granted. They were paid for long ago, and will continue to be paid for, by the Men and Women who give their blood, sweat and tears and sometimes their lives. Consequently I feel that I, and all citizens of America, have a responsibilty to be productive contributing citizens and positively impact society in whatever ways we can.
In this day and age, I fail to understand when a "citizen" plots terrorist activities against our Country how they retain their rights; they wish to destroy "the Infidel" but then expect due process to be afforded to them to protect their civil liberties. It is as if suddenly they are American Citizens once again. As far as I'm concerned these people give up their rights when they strike or plot against our Nation. Even more mind boggling for me is attempting to reason with those that feel the terrorists have more rights than the victims...real or intended. They give me a headache.
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Gypsy is offline
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02-20-2004, 20:22
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#4
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Very well put Gypsy.
I too do not understand how an individual can expect to be afforded rights bought and paid for by those the terrorists intended to kill in the first place.
The oath I swore on Wednesday says I will defend this country against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. It would seem to me that once an individual began to plot against andor kill the citizens of this country they would have lost their rights previously afforded them under the constitution.
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Surgicalcric is offline
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02-20-2004, 20:27
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#5
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Wasn't Padilla born in the US?
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Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
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02-20-2004, 20:34
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#6
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Quote:
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Wasn't Padilla born in the US?
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That is how most of these dirtbags become "American citizens".
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
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02-20-2004, 20:43
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#7
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I dont think it should matter whether or not a person is born here.
If a person takes up arms against their own countrymen they do not deserve the rights afforded them under The Constitution.
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"It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees."
"Its not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me" -Batman
"There are no obstacles, only opportunities for excellence."- NousDefionsDoc
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02-20-2004, 20:43
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#8
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Area Commander
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Quote:
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Wasn't Padilla born in the US?
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NDD, yes he was born in Brooklyn. He was also a member of a Chicago gang.
Thanks Surgicalcric.
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Last edited by Gypsy; 02-20-2004 at 20:48.
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02-20-2004, 21:02
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#9
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So how can we strip his citizenship before we have the trial? RL?
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Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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02-20-2004, 21:54
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#10
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Quote:
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
So how can we strip his citizenship before we have the trial? RL?
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I don't believe we can.
What we should be taking a look at is the law that says being born in the U.S. makes one a U.S. citizen.
It occurs to me that this law was written with a view of the U.S. as a growing country with plenty of room for all and very slow, limited travel. The current situation seems to call for immigration reform, beginning with this.
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
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02-20-2004, 21:58
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#11
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DAMN! LOL - that's pretty much the standard around the world Boss.
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Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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02-20-2004, 22:06
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#12
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Quote:
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
DAMN! LOL - that's pretty much the standard around the world Boss.
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Too far over the top?
Most countries do not accord the citizenship rights that this one does.
Besides, I thought we liked controversy and bold, contentious statements here.
You have seen how the Visa guys at the AmEmbassies look at pregnant applicants.
Just my .02, regardless of how strongly I feel about it.
Discussion?
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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02-20-2004, 22:08
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#13
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Alternative criteria that is manageable?
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Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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02-20-2004, 22:12
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#14
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Quote:
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Alternative criteria that is manageable?
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Born here, specific number of years of satisfactory residency, followed by a citizenship test, or military service, like we do for adults?
Limited citizenship rights till then.
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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02-20-2004, 22:18
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#15
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I could live with it.
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Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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