New Army Handgun

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by Razor

Just speculation on my part, but I suspect that the fact that Glock does not have and would not add a specific, manual safety lever played an important role in the selection of the Sig. Note that most commercial 320s don't have a safety, but the MHS submission does. Big Army really, really, really likes safeties (the M11 notwithstanding).

I'm just very happy glock was not chosen, it's a real piece of shit pistol.

There's something to be said for having your finger "on" the trigger and thumb on the safety. Much faster to engage then finger off the trigger (thanks to glock pistols).

[Combat Diver]

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

And why they did not just buy a bunch more M11s is beyond me except there would be no kick backs at Pentagon level

Because the M11 did not meet the specifications.


CD

[CAARNG 68W]

Originally Posted by scooter

I would put money on this as the primary selection reason in this case.

That and I think it has a lot to do with the truly modular design of the 320 - one pistol, 3 calibers (9, 40, 357 SIG)

[CDRODA396]

I think all the early solicitations and notices to industry focused on ergonomics, and adaptable for small hands... one such notice read,

"There is specific interest in designs that would be adaptable and/or adjustable to provide enhanced ergonomics that ensure 5th percentile female through 95th percentile male military personnel access to controls, such as the safety, magazine release, slide release and all other applicable controls,” the RFI reads. “There is also interest in designs that offer these enhanced ergonomics while providing full ambidextrous controls.”

All to cater to the bottom end small hands of the female! HaHa!

The P320 does has three grip sizes, small, medium, and large. I think this appealed to the evaluators, whoever they were, over the replaceable back strap some of the competitors had. It also has a user changeable mag release.

I have pawed the P320 and find it appealing, but haven't shot one, and would love to. The X5 model claims to have addressed the high bore axis complaint many have with Sigs by removing material under the trigger guard and beaver tail, and I would love to shoot it as well.

Definitely be interesting to see how it performs once Sig has to start cranking out big numbers.

[Ret10Echo]

Why am I seeing a nightmare of inventory and parts accountability...

Specialist Messkit - "Sergeant, appears that I didn't bring my .40 upper with me....."

Sergeant - "WTF Messkit.. I told everyone to bring their .40 on the deployment

Messkit - "Well, we were at the range and I was getting tired so I dropped in the 9mm Upper"

Sergeant - "Dammit Messkit, we didn't bring any 9 mil in the loadout! Draw one of the extra pistols from the armorer."

Messkit - "I tried to Sergeant but all is has is the large grips and I need the small size."

(Sounds of choking and struggling)

[Joker]

Specialist Messkit's first name is BettyLou, right?

[Box]

If it is modular and accepts 9mm, .40, and 357 Sig, then I will offer the prophecy that within the first year of fielding, we will have guys buying their own favorite caliber kits, bitching that they can't kill anyone without 10mm or 45 or some other pet favorite pistol round and that we have wasted money on a hunk of shit...
...NATO don't shoot 357
...why are we still buying 9mm
...why didn't they buy 45
...these magazines suck
...why did they buy these shitty sights
...we should have red dots
We should have just kept the M9 - this thing sucks !!!
blah blah blah

SF guys wanted a 45 instead of the M9 and when the USP showed up everyone made fun of it
...and then they had to have Glocks
...then they needed smaller clocks
...then they needed a Sig

It's all just part of the cycle; give a fucking SF guy a rope, he thinks he is a cowboy, give him an inch he wants a mile, and with all of this social engineering going on in the DOD these days: now, more than ever, it could be raining pussy and there will be someone bitching that they want an asshole


....same as it ever was

[JJ_BPK]

Originally Posted by CDRODA396

I think all the early solicitations and notices to industry focused on ergonomics, and adaptable for small hands... one such notice read,

"There is specific interest in designs that would be adaptable and/or adjustable to provide enhanced ergonomics that ensure 5th percentile female through 95th percentile male military personnel access to controls, such as the safety, magazine release, slide release and all other applicable controls,” the RFI reads. “There is also interest in designs that offer these enhanced ergonomics while providing full ambidextrous controls.”

All to cater to the bottom end small hands of the female! HaHa!

The P320 does has three grip sizes, small, medium, and large. I think this appealed to the evaluators, whoever they were, over the replaceable back strap some of the competitors had. It also has a user changeable mag release.

I have pawed the P320 and find it appealing, but haven't shot one, and would love to. The X5 model claims to have addressed the high bore axis complaint many have with Sigs by removing material under the trigger guard and beaver tail, and I would love to shoot it as well.

Definitely be interesting to see how it performs once Sig has to start cranking out big numbers.

I haven't fiddled with one yet,, BUT

The sizes deals with slide-barrel length and grip length, just like the glock.

The circumference is the same, to match the interchangeable double stack magazine.

SO,, Butter-Cup's pixie hands is not fixed by the "SIZE"...

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by CAARNG 68W

That and I think it has a lot to do with the truly modular design of the 320 - one pistol, 3 calibers (9, 40, 357 SIG)

So the Army is going to have a "Snowflake" round, (9mm), a female round, (40) and a man's round (.357)?

This should be interesting.

[bblhead672]

Originally Posted by Billy L-bach

someone bitching that they want an asshole

Give them Obama's home number.

[CDRODA396]

Originally Posted by JJ_BPK

I haven't fiddled with one yet,, BUT

The sizes deals with slide-barrel length and grip length, just like the glock.

The circumference is the same, to match the interchangeable double stack magazine.

SO,, Butter-Cup's pixie hands is not fixed by the "SIZE"...

I do believe in this case, its not just like the Glock. Each size gun, sub-compact, compact, carry and full size, all have three different size grips you can chose from. All are shipped with a MED grip, but you can get a LRG or SM depending on your hands. I don't know how the Army is going to work out what size in what #'s.

"SIG Sauer offers three sizes of grip modules (small, medium and large). The inside of each is the same, with correctly dimensioned magazine well, and pocket for the frame assembly. But the outside of each grip module is thicker or thinner. The actual circumference of the grip is bulkier as the sizes increase. By this means, the company tailors the pistol to just about any hand. It is a very big deal when it comes to selling the gun, particularly to law-enforcement agencies that buy in quantity for many different-sized hands. The guns are shipped with medium grip modules, as that size fits the greatest majority of shooters."

According to SIG, the below measurements are for a full size grip, caliber does not matter as the grips fit all calibers for that size pistol.

Large has a grip circumference of 5.9"
Medium has a grip circumference of 5.7"
Small has a grip circumference of 5.5"

The grips run about $35, ($44 on SIG's site) and as I said fit all the calibers for a given frame size. The gun comes in sub-compact, compact, carry and full size. It is my understanding that the Army only bought the carry (even though most articles say compact, the pics are all carry) and full size, but intend on using the carry grip module only. That module comes in SM, MED, and LRG, and each size, fits all calibers. The civie full size (5") version has a full length dust cover, the Army's full size wont because of the carry grip. You can see it in the picture circulating out of SHOT.

The trigger assembly contains all the differences in/on the bottom end, so you dissassmble the gun, pull the trigger module out (the actual serial numbered piece of the gun), drop the new one in, and reassemble with the new caliber top end.

Neither SIG nor the Army said at SHOT, but from what I read, a "source" is attributed for having said the Army ONLY bought the 9mm top ends.

So, in the arms room they SHOULD have a bunch of MED, some SM and some LG, carry grips and a number of full size 9mm top ends, and a number of 9mm compact top ends.

So, if you had man-hands, you could draw a full size top, carry top, and large bottom, with a 9mm trigger assembly and be on your way with two guns, a 4.7" and a 3.9" barrel 9mm hi-cap.

That is the theory anyway. Like I said, I started looking at these a few weeks ago, before anyone knew the Army was going this way, and they have interested me for sure. Would love to shoot one...anyone in the Fay area want to lend me theirs...?

[JJ_BPK]

Looks like 9MM,,
well maybe,,
to start with,,
sometimes,,
while the wind is out of the East..

http://kitup.military.com/2017/01/mo...C=eb_170127.nl

[tom kelly]

Does the DOD & Dept.of the ARMY go thru this incredible bull shit when they are considering replacing the flatware used in the mess halls? The length of the fork, number of prongs, composition of material,metal of plastic, curvature of the handle.Taste of the different food's on the Army's menu for the year? and most important do you use your right hand or your left hand when you eat?How about a modular eating utensil for cake,steak, pasta, mashed or french fried potatoes?WTF.
Did the U S Army win WWII using the M-1 Garand ? Maybe the U S should forfeit that win because we did not have the correct modular weapon system to accommodate all the military forces that used the U.S.Rifle Caliber .30, M-1...Follow the money to the advisors and consultants hired by the weapon manufactures, "THE LOBBYIST"

[frostfire]

Originally Posted by CDRODA396

I have pawed the P320 and find it appealing, but haven't shot one, and would love to.

Originally Posted by SF718

RA might as well stick with the M9 since 99% of RA soldiers can barely qualify.. including SOF with an M9.

Can't believe I waited this long to try one. I guess I already formed a negative bias due to the price and the trouble with the SEALs. Went to my buddy's gun range today and oh la la, IF the army version has the same trigger then I am 99.99% convinced more soldiers will qualify with pistol using the 320. I have been part of several MTT and soldiers had easier time qualifying once I handed them my national match M9. Still same dimension of regular M9, but good trigger makes a world of difference and can make up for some bad habits i.e. poor follow through.


I confess. I'm a trigger snob. Geisselle national match, SD3G, ALG AKT, 1911 national match, Beretta national match, and endless hours and $$$ tinkering with the glock trigger until it is as close to the 1911 national match as possible with the pretravel, weight, and overtravel. I am also excited about the upcoming CZ P10c with all the trigger rave reviews.

Still, I am impressed with the out-of-the box Sig 320 compact trigger. It has that same fat trigger as P226 so I was expecting the 226 pull and reset, but whoa...No overtravel without any trigger job, very little take up, and very short reset. Crisp break, and 3 smallest iterations your finger can make with both the squeeze and reset. Not to Walther PPQ trigger level, but sure beats the hyped HK VP9. I have handled the Beretta submission as well, and unfortunately no comparison with the SIG trigger.

I hope I'll be part of the MTT with the transition to the 320. I look forward to a solid reception and increased qualifications/proficiency.

Next I want to see if the AMU armorers can make the Sig320 shoots <2 inches at 50 yards. Of the various striker fired pistol they tried, only the XD was modifiable to that standard!

[Combat Diver]

One source I read this weekend stated the cost of the new M17 is $207 each. Seems SIG remembers the M9 trails where they got underbid.


CD