07-14-2016, 12:34
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#1
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Just above the flood plain in Southern Texas
Posts: 3,611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ_BPK
The Infantry was created to prepare for and fight wars. There are times that we have no wars, so the EIB gives a sense of well deserved accomplishment. BUT,, It is secondary to the CIB.
Our job is to engage the opponent in mortal combat and help him die for his cause.
Unfortunately, these days there is a me me me generation where no-one finishes 2nd..
My $00.000002..  |
I disagree JJ, and while you are right that it is a peacetime award for excellence in one's job as an Infantryman. My disagreement is that the EIB is something you earn by expert knowledge and effort in the MOS (11/18/19.) The CIB is simply awarded to 11-series and 18/19-series for surviving while deployed in combat. Not to take away from the award but come on, since it was created, the dumbest, weakest conscript/drafty in a rifle squad could just be lucky long enough to complete his tour and come home.
At least that's how I remember one of my CSMs explaining it to me as young SP4 who had earned his EIB.
How many returning Infantrymen have been awarded a CIB simply for being there?
Plus I think this MIB is stupid. Wear what you got and know you "earned" either one.
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“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” (Sir Edmund Burke)
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Old Dog New Trick is offline
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07-14-2016, 14:52
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: 18 yrs upstate NY, 30 yrs South Florida, 20 yrs Conch Republic, now chasing G-Kids in NOVA & UK
Posts: 11,901
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick
How many returning Infantrymen have been awarded a CIB simply for being there?
Plus I think this MIB is stupid. Wear what you got and know you "earned" either one.
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This is the problem,, the CIB is turning into a BTDT..
Maybe, as other have said,, get rid of all but V's, PH, and skill badges..
I have to wonder sometimes,, I see a Pentagon GO with 6-10 rows and not one V device??
TS,
How about we propose:
CIB minimum 1 V and/or 1 PH
Senior minimum 2 V and/or 2 PH
Master CIB?? minimum 3 V's and/or 3 PH's??
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JJ_BPK is offline
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07-14-2016, 15:04
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#3
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ_BPK
This is the problem,, the CIB is turning into a BTDT..
Maybe, as other have said,, get rid of all but V's, PH, and skill badges..
I have to wonder sometimes,, I see a Pentagon GO with 6-10 rows and not one V device??
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What do you do about those Infantrymen who aren't high enough rank to get any of the higher medals? That's even more important in today's award system than it was in any of the previous conflict period. An E-4 isn't going to get a service award higher than an AAM and an E-5 an ARCOM. They could be patrolling every day for 9 months, embracing the suck and doing their job, but if they aren't "lucky" enough to run into a bad guy and have their CoC navigate the awards system to get them a valor award, they come back looking just like the cook that never left Bagram.
That was the reason for the CIB's creation in the first place. Recognize the difference between the guys out on the front lines and the people in the rear/support folks.
Personally I was just fine with wearing either the CIB or EIB but not both. (edit for clarity: I have the CIB but never tested for the EIB)
Last edited by (1VB)compforce; 07-14-2016 at 15:07.
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(1VB)compforce is offline
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07-14-2016, 17:00
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#4
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: 18 yrs upstate NY, 30 yrs South Florida, 20 yrs Conch Republic, now chasing G-Kids in NOVA & UK
Posts: 11,901
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (1VB)compforce
What do you do about those Infantrymen who aren't high enough rank to get any of the higher medals? That's even more important in today's award system than it was in any of the previous conflict period. An E-4 isn't going to get a service award higher than an AAM and an E-5 an ARCOM. They could be patrolling every day for 9 months, embracing the suck and doing their job, but if they aren't "lucky" enough to run into a bad guy and have their CoC navigate the awards system to get them a valor award, they come back looking just like the cook that never left Bagram.
That was the reason for the CIB's creation in the first place. Recognize the difference between the guys out on the front lines and the people in the rear/support folks.
Personally I was just fine with wearing either the CIB or EIB but not both. (edit for clarity: I have the CIB but never tested for the EIB)
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I was not aware that rank is now used for awards,, That is very sad... 
FOG moment,, It was the action that generated awards, not rank, when I was in..
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Go raibh tú leathuair ar Neamh sula mbeadh a fhios ag an diabhal go bhfuil tú marbh
"May you be a half hour in heaven before the devil knows you’re dead"
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JJ_BPK is offline
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07-14-2016, 17:07
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#5
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ_BPK
I was not aware that rank is now used for awards,, That is very sad...
FOG moment,, It was the action that generated awards, not rank, when I was in.. |
For service awards, absolutely rank matters. Also the number of service awards received during a deployment is capped. Get a couple of achievement or impact medals and the CoC will not award a service BSM for the tour regardless of merit.
For Valor awards it's still *mostly* the action. I do know a support guy that was out with one of the SF Groups as an E-4 that was put in for a BSM w/V for actions during a convoy ambush. The BSM made it through the entire Group CoC intact but then was downgraded to an ARCOM w/V at either CFSOCC or Theatre level. No stated reason for the downgrade.
Last edited by (1VB)compforce; 07-14-2016 at 17:10.
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(1VB)compforce is offline
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07-14-2016, 20:16
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#6
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Occupied Northlandia
Posts: 1,697
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I earned my EIB in November of 89, three weeks later we jumped in to Panama, got CIB. (I did wear the only uniform I had with the EIB sewn on into combat! We were proud as hell to have earned that)
Became 18D and got CFMB in A-Stan.
Never got a chance to do EFMB.
Question: Can I get a "Big Bag of Dicks" medal to represent those three? 
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"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." — Jeff Cooper
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miclo18d is offline
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07-14-2016, 20:35
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Washington
Posts: 2,064
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miclo18d
I earned my EIB in November of 89, three weeks later we jumped in to Panama, got CIB. (I did wear the only uniform I had with the EIB sewn on into combat! We were proud as hell to have earned that)
Became 18D and got CFMB in A-Stan.
Never got a chance to do EFMB.
Question: Can I get a "Big Bag of Dicks" medal to represent those three? |
You can literally get a Bag of Dicks at Dick's Drive-In in Seattle. http://www.ddir.com/
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Divemaster is offline
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07-15-2016, 08:09
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#9
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: State of Confusion
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...so
In the name of diversity and inclusivity, will there be an equal effort to create a badge for those with EFMB/CFMB ?
If he badge hounds are so up in arms about displaying their ERB, why would they have tried to make a change to the reg' that kept folks from wearing CIB/CFMB
I think instead of oakleaf clusters, we should just wear another medal.
THAT would look awesome. Instead of three oakleaf clusters - BAM you just wear a shitload of ARCOMS and AAMs
....boy is this great
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Opinions stated in this post are solely those of the author, and in no way reflect the opinions or policies of The Department of Defense, The United States Army, The Royal Canadian Mounted Police, The Screen Actors Guild, The Boy Scouts, The Good, The Bad, or The Ugly. These opinions are provided purely as overly sarcastic social commentary and are not meant to be used for mission planning or navigation.
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Box is offline
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07-14-2016, 15:56
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#10
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Just above the flood plain in Southern Texas
Posts: 3,611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ_BPK
This is the problem,, the CIB is turning into a BTDT.
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I've been out since before OEF. Didn't they come up with the "Combat Knife" award for those that weren't eligible for a CIB?
Kinda resembles the Thai SF/Ranger "Tiger with a Bowie Knife" medal. (I always wanted that one.) (Had to settle on Thai Master Parachutist Wings)
ETA: Wasn't it Von Clauswits who came up with the idea giving guys "batges" (badges) for courage under Fire?
__________________
You only live once; live well. Have no regrets when the end happens!
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” (Sir Edmund Burke)
Last edited by Old Dog New Trick; 07-14-2016 at 15:59.
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