Active shooter, possible hostages at Amarillo, Texas Walmart

[TWITCHY]

I appologize for the confusion about him speaking Farsi, I knew that was most likely not his native language, being that he is Somali, but the PD was requesting a Farsi speaker. It could have been that they needed a Farsi interpreter for a witness. I don't have the details on that, yet.

One of my brothers on the RTF told us that the Somali said that he was "Doing this for Allah's birthday". Hopefully we will be able to get some info from the investigation, as to whether this was a pissed-off worker, or he's a wannabe Jihadi. I would have thought that he would have at least killed someone if he was a wannabe.

I was happy to see that the PD made quick entry into the building, unlike Orlando PD. It has bothered me that there was a 3 hour lapse in the Orlando incident, before they made entry to kill the fucker. Amarillo is smaller than Orlando and we do not have Disney or anything remotely close to it, so how is it that a small-town PD and FD are more prepared to make entry and kill a bad guy? Hell, even the town south of us, Canyon, Texas population ~13,000, regularly conduct active shooter training and coordination drills.

At least this one turned out good.

Originally Posted by TWITCHY

I appologize for the confusion about him speaking Farsi, I knew that was most likely not his native language, being that he is Somali, but the PD was requesting a Farsi speaker. It could have been that they needed a Farsi interpreter for a witness. I don't have the details on that, yet.

One of my brothers on the RTF told us that the Somali said that he was "Doing this for Allah's birthday". Hopefully we will be able to get some info from the investigation, as to whether this was a pissed-off worker, or he's a wannabe Jihadi. I would have thought that he would have at least killed someone if he was a wannabe.

I was happy to see that the PD made quick entry into the building, unlike Orlando PD. It has bothered me that there was a 3 hour lapse in the Orlando incident, before they made entry to kill the fucker. Amarillo is smaller than Orlando and we do not have Disney or anything remotely close to it, so how is it that a small-town PD and FD are more prepared to make entry and kill a bad guy? Hell, even the town south of us, Canyon, Texas population ~13,000, regularly conduct active shooter training and coordination drills.

At least this one turned out good.

Two completely different scenarios. A Walmart is gigantic compared to the club in Mousetown, making entry a cinch. From what I've read/seen, this one appears to be a suicide-by-cop. If the shooter had wanted to kill shoppers and staff they would have been dead before your small town PD would have been able to stop it.

[TWITCHY]

Sdiver I agree, that is a good question.

WCH that does make sense to me. I have zero training in PD operations, so those are things I had not thought about. I based my question off of the last active shooter training that we did and I thought that most places had instituted a quick entry to kill the bad guy, as soon as two or three cops got formed-up. Thank you for the points. I am also, definitely, not saying APD is better than OPD. Their actions just seemed contrary to what we were taught.

[Oldrotorhead]

Originally Posted by TWITCHY

Sdiver I agree, that is a good question.

WCH that does make sense to me. I have zero training in PD operations, so those are things I had not thought about. I based my question off of the last active shooter training that we did and I thought that most places had instituted a quick entry to kill the bad guy, as soon as two or three cops got formed-up. Thank you for the points. I am also, definitely, not saying APD is better than OPD. Their actions just seemed contrary to what we were taught.

Reports through 911 stated the shooter had a bomb vest, and the building was known to have a large number of potential hostages were factors in Orlando that did not come into play in Amarillo.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by Oldrotorhead

Reports through 911 stated the shooter had a bomb vest, and the building was known to have a large number of potential hostages were factors in Orlando that did not come into play in Amarillo.

Once shots are fired it's go time. Chicken-shit is chicken-shit plain and simple. Read up on "active shooter" responses.

[TWITCHY]

Based on what I've read and what we were taught, there is no more waiting for the perp to continue killing people. Much of this is based on the events at Columbine, Aurora, LAX, and several others. Would the outcome have been any different at Beslan or if a similar thing occurred here and fire teams made immediate entry? I guess the bad guys could go ahead and blow it up, but they may do it anyway and there is no bargaining with these assholes, either.

This may not be a fair or accurate comparison, but not making immediate entry by PD because there could be devices would be like me not making entry into a structure because it's already on fire. We signed up knowing we could die and fires don't stop until they're extinguished and killers don't stop killing until a bullet puts them down.

They don't amount to much in such a situation, but these are my thoughts on it.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by TWITCHY

Based on what I've read and what we were taught, there is no more waiting for the perp to continue killing people. Much of this is based on the events at Columbine, Aurora, LAX, and several others. Would the outcome have been any different at Beslan or if a similar thing occurred here and fire teams made immediate entry? I guess the bad guys could go ahead and blow it up, but they may do it anyway and there is no bargaining with these assholes, either.

This may not be a fair or accurate comparison, but not making immediate entry by PD because there could be devices would be like me not making entry into a structure because it's already on fire. We signed up knowing we could die and fires don't stop until they're extinguished and killers don't stop killing until a bullet puts them down.

They don't amount to much in such a situation, but these are my thoughts on it.

And you would be correct, when the shooting starts you go in, device or no device. Or you can sit and wait three hours and be called a chicken-shit.

This is why the American military gets paid the big bucks..(not). We kill when the light turns green and when you have islamic terrorists the only way to stop them is by putting them down.

Cops are cops, not warriors.

[abc_123]

Originally Posted by TWITCHY

Based on what I've read and what we were taught, there is no more waiting for the perp to continue killing people. Much of this is based on the events at Columbine, Aurora, LAX, and several others.

The biggest "Other" being the events of 9-11. Before that in this country at least planes got hijacked to take some dumbass to cuba or to try and get a payday... so the thought was to not resist. Now the thinking is different.

[Oldrotorhead]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

Once shots are fired it's go time. Chicken-shit is chicken-shit plain and simple. Read up on "active shooter" responses.

I will start reading about active shooter responses.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by WCH

Two completely different scenarios. A Walmart is gigantic compared to the club in Mousetown, making entry a cinch. From what I've read/seen, this one appears to be a suicide-by-cop. If the shooter had wanted to kill shoppers and staff they would have been dead before your small town PD would have been able to stop it.

Actually no, it is not a different scenario. Both are closed buildings and buildings are all treated the same. Entry's are different for different doors, but what's done on the inside is the same. 2-3 story buildings are also the same entry is a little different, but once inside, same tactics.

An active shooter in a smaller space would be much easier/faster to locate and kill and a bit more difficult in a Walmart scenario, just because of the size.

Given the option I'd rather make entry into the smaller building and treat it as a large "room" (a room inside a building).