Defense Secretary to Open All Combat Jobs to Women

[joshua20]

EO

[MR2]

Originally Posted by mark46th

Hell at one time in my life, I was probably the world's toughest lesbian.

You still are Mark...


Ok, there went the discount...

[frostfire]

Originally Posted by joshua20

post

Joshua20, i've made many mistakes in life and based on them, your post is TMI
Also having worked with majority female coworkers a little empathy goes a long way. This is open source domain. How would she perceive your post? Hell hath no fury...

Please dont take this the wrong way. Just looking out for your future success. You're still active. EO comes to mind

[joshua20]

Originally Posted by frostfire

Joshua20, i've made many mistakes in life and based on them, your post is TMI
Also having worked with majority female coworkers a little empathy goes a long way. This is open source domain. How would she perceive your post? Hell hath no fury...

Please dont take this the wrong way. Just looking out for your future success. You're still active. EO comes to mind

Good call , I obviously have strong opinions on this matter

[bailaviborita]

http://thehill.com/policy/defense/26...ered-for-women

Marine Gen. John Kelly on Friday said he fears that commanders will be pressured by "agenda-driven people" in Washington to lower military standards in order to allow more women into combat positions.

"My greatest fear — and we see this happen a lot over the 45 years I've been in the Armed Forces is, right now they're saying we are not going to change any standards," said Kelly, who is retiring this month, at his last Pentagon briefing.

"So I think it will be the pressure for not probably the generals that are here now, but for the generals to come, and admirals, to lower standards because that's the only way it'll work in the way that I hear some people, particularly, the agenda-driven people here in Washington ... they want it to work," he said.
Kelly, commander of U.S. Southern Command, predicted the pressure to lower standards will come due to the low numbers of women who will end up in combat roles.

"There will be great pressure, whether it's 12 months from now, four years from now, because the question will be asked whether we've let women into these other roles; why aren't they staying in those other roles; why aren't they advancing as infantry people?"

"The answer is, I think will be, if we don't change the standards, it will be very, very difficult to have any numbers — any real numbers come into the infantry, or the Rangers or the SEALS," he said.

Kelly also said young women would be more prone to injuries due to the nature of infantry combat.

Could you imagine an ARSOF general saying this? Marines: last real branch where anyone has any nads...

[WarriorDiplomat]

Originally Posted by bailaviborita

http://thehill.com/policy/defense/26...ered-for-women



Could you imagine an ARSOF general saying this? Marines: last real branch where anyone has any nads...

Nope, ARSOF Generals are timid and weak and not in a Sun Tzu way.

[Box]

Originally Posted by bailaviborita

Could you imagine an ARSOF general saying this? Marines: last real branch where anyone has any nads...

Here is the rub...
I CAN imagine an ARSOF general officer saying something like that.
Inside of my head, I can hear the voice of a few different ARSOF Generals saying it.
I could hear the voice of a couple of different 3-Stars saying it.
I could even hear the voice of a four star saying that very thing.

"We're going to execute your guidance Sir, but that fact is, this is a bad idea. It is bad for the very women it is supposed to help. Women are going to suffer unneeded injuries because of this and we aren't going to get out moneys worth out of them over the course of a military career"

I could hear it crystal clear in my head.
THAT is why I am so disappointed. So many people that I really expected to to wave bullshit flags...
...didn't

[CDRODA396]

Originally Posted by Billy L-bach

THAT is why I am so disappointed. So many people that I really expected to to wave bullshit flags...
...didn't

A lot of them have been run off in the past decade...quite possibly to set the conditions for what lays before us...

[Mills]

Originally Posted by Billy L-bach

Here is the rub...
I CAN imagine an ARSOF general officer saying something like that.
Inside of my head, I can hear the voice of a few different Majr Generals saying it.
I could hear the voice of a couple of different 3-Stars saying it.
I could even hear the voice of a four star saying that very thing.

"We're going to execute your guidance Sir, but that fact is, this is a bad idea. It is bad for the very women it is supposed to help. Women are going to suffer unneeded injuries because of this and we aren't going to get out moneys worth out of them over the course of a military career"

I could hear it crystal clear in my head.
THAT is why I am so disappointed. So many people that I really expected to to wave bullshit flags...
...didn't

Do you think that they all thought that "someone else was going to fall on the sword any day now", and didn't.

Or everyone thought that it might get swept under the rug till after the election?

[bailaviborita]

Originally Posted by Mills

Do you think that they all thought that "someone else was going to fall on the sword any day now", and didn't.

Or everyone thought that it might get swept under the rug till after the election?

I was told they would be wasting their time because it as going to happen no matter what. Cleveland had other priorities and Reeder didn't want to go out in a bad way (bad to the GO club). Sacolick opined something politically incorrect in front of Congress and got his pee pee whacked by McRaven. Wendt is only interested in making four stars. Who else is there? I heard Rogers would sell his soul to the lowest bidder...

[Razor]

Tovo?

[Box]

Politics being what it is, this was going to happen during the Obama presidency. it isn't fair to blame THAT decision on military leaders. (just my opinion)
There is very little doubting that the libs are interested in pushing social agendas and not so much on the actually combat lethality of the force.


I also keep the opinion that sometimes, falling on your sword is NOT the only solution. sometimes falling on a sword endangers the entire force.

That is the beauty of the "oath"
I swore an oath to take orders...
...officers swore an oath to faithfully discharge the duties of the office.
I have always believed that there is a good reason that the oath of enlistment is just a little bit different form the one that an officer swears to.

An officers job is to give me GOOD orders to execute.
Politicians on the other hand, have an agenda that officers are expected to support.

A good officer can lead Soldiers through dark times.
A good officer doesn't tell hungry soldiers that food is a crutch.
A good officer motivates the men to work through the hunger.
A good officer doesn't feed you shit sandwiches by telling you they are a delicacy in some cultures.
A good officer has no choice but to feed his troops a shit sandwich at times.

Instead, a good officer sits down with his men, and tells them, "boys, this is a huge shit sandwich and we are going to have to eat it. Here, use this, its the strongest hot sauce I could find. The hot sauce is going to burn your tongue but it will kill the taste and once your eyes start to water and your nose starts running, it will kill the smell also. I'm really sorry we have to do this, but, eat up...
...Someone hand me a fork"

The other possibility is... This REALLY is a good idea. If this really is a good idea then the effort should be focused on explaining to all of the thick skulled dinosaurs all of the data points that show how good of an idea this really is.
That hasn't happened on ANY level. To the contrary, we have gotten LOTS of chatter and data points from higher that frame this as a bad idea.


Instead what we got sonded more like "hey guys, everyone else thinks this is a great idea. if you don't like it, you can leave. if it fails, its YOUR fucking fault. That is all. get back to work."


...Or maybe I just watched a different video.

[MR2]

You know, it occurs to me that what the Corps should do, with regard to meeting SecNav's demand for eliminating the word "man" from job titles, is change them all to "woman." Yes, all of them. Riflewomen, signalwoman, artillerywomen, ALL of them. The Army should do the same. And even where there was no "man" in the title, we should add "woman," anyway, just to make women feel accepted and happy: Tankwoman, Machinegunwoman.

And then, when no men volunteer, period, and we no longer have a ground combat capability, the country will have the defense it's demanded and deserves.

Posted on Facebook by Tom Kratman, emphasis added.

[WarriorDiplomat]

It amazes me when those who served the entire GWOT can't see the destruction and the failures along the way that encompasses the path we have taken to get here.

Leadership failures
Soldier failures
Destructive decisions to boost numbers
The dishonesty in the promotion system
The dishonesty in our reporting as it goes up
Putting the regiment on blast on media
Tell all generation
Me generation

For years we have allowed ourselves to deteriorate in culture, intelligence, planning, character, leadership.

When things such as this decision is set in motion on your watch under your leadership OWN IT

[frostfire]

Originally Posted by Billy L-bach

I also keep the opinion that sometimes, falling on your sword is NOT the only solution. sometimes falling on a sword endangers the entire force.

That is the beauty of the "oath"
I swore an oath to take orders...
...officers swore an oath to faithfully discharge the duties of the office.
I have always believed that there is a good reason that the oath of enlistment is just a little bit different form the one that an officer swears to.

An officers job is to give me GOOD orders to execute.
Politicians on the other hand, have an agenda that officers are expected to support.

A good officer can lead Soldiers through dark times.
A good officer doesn't tell hungry soldiers that food is a crutch.
A good officer motivates the men to work through the hunger.
A good officer doesn't feed you shit sandwiches by telling you they are a delicacy in some cultures.
A good officer has no choice but to feed his troops a shit sandwich at times.

Instead, a good officer sits down with his men, and tells them, "boys, this is a huge shit sandwich and we are going to have to eat it. Here, use this, its the strongest hot sauce I could find. The hot sauce is going to burn your tongue but it will kill the taste and once your eyes start to water and your nose starts running, it will kill the smell also. I'm really sorry we have to do this, but, eat up...
...Someone hand me a fork"

Thank you for the education, Billy