U.S. military and civilians are increasingly divided

[SouthernDZ]

....."Some 49% of the 1.3 million active-duty service members in the U.S. are concentrated in just five states — California, Virginia, Texas, North Carolina and Georgia."


Interesting article that talks about a separate "warrior class" - http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...ry.html#page=1

[Divemaster]

I haven't read the article yet, but I'm cool with a warrior class. That will be the nucleus to train the masses when the balloon really goes up.

[SF0]

Yet a 2011 Pew Research Center study titled "The Military-Civilian Gap" found that only a quarter of civilians who had no family ties to the military followed war news closely. Half said the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan made little difference in their lives, and half said they were not worth fighting.

How quickly they forget.

[echoes]

But do not forget, there are tons of us regular civilians that luv our Warriors, and will support them no matter what!

Its what we Can do.

Holly

There are many people who support our troops, but do not believe we should have invaded Iraq. Some are Veterans.

[SouthernDZ]

Originally Posted by Divemaster

I haven't read the article yet, but I'm cool with a warrior class. That will be the nucleus to train the masses when the balloon really goes up.

Divemaster, like you I hear the term "warrior class" and feel pride.
Somehow though, I fear some hear the term and think "underclass" - less that 1% of Americans went to war, the rest went shopping.

[Sohei]

Originally Posted by SouthernDZ

...I fear some hear the term and think "underclass" - less that 1% of Americans went to war, the rest went shopping.

I don't think that will ever change. I recently had a conversation with some extended family that still thinks that we go into the military because we can't get real jobs to support ourselves and/or our families.

The stupid remains and is strong....

I will gladly stay among the Warrior class and leave the sheep to fill the others.

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by Agoge2

The stupid remains and is strong....

I will gladly stay among the Warrior class and leave the sheep to fill the others.

IMO, the above underscores the following quote from the OP.

It's like the Roman legions.... It's like we're being told to kneel down and worship our heroes.

[Sohei]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

IMO, the above underscores the following quote from the OP.

I have no desire to be worshiped by anyone. I was speaking to the statement whereby those serving in the military are considered by many to be the "underclass."

[cedsall]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

IMO, the above underscores the following quote from the OP.

re: being told to kneel down and worship our heros.

As Agoge2 said, it's not about hero worship. But there is a gulf between those who have served and those who haven't.

I have been retired for almost 20 years so I have been out of the military almost as long as I was in the military. There has been nothing in my second career that can hold a candle to what I did during my 20 years on active duty. Not even close.

I joked with a co-worker once about his sports injuries (he had screwed up his back playing rugby). I broke a leg on a jump and ruptured a tendon on a rappelling tower. It kind of closes down the conversation. And I was fortunate enough to serve through a period of relative peace (75 - 95). Again, it's not about hero worship or that my experiences are any better than his. But they are vastly different.

I've got a motivational poster that says "Bloomburg says that when he was in college he wasn't responsible enough for a gun and doesn't know anyone who is. I know a lot of guys who remember 19 differently". There's a lot of truth in there. When I was 19 I sat on a hill overlooking the Korea DMZ and watched a battalion of the 2d ID march in to cut down a tree. There are precious few things in civilian life that parallel those kinds of experiences.

I'm not positing rightness or wrongness, just the recognition that the gulf exists.

I'm pretty sure most veterans are not looking for hero worship. Speaking for myself, I would be happy if our country would just fulfill their side of my (re)enlistment contracts.

[Box]

Eric Harmeling is obviously wise beyond his years. At the ripe old age of 21 he has seen so much that he is able to opine that Memorial Day is akin to Emperor Caesar forcing him to worship the legion on bended knee.

I am indeed curious to hear some examples of how poor Eric has been oppressed and forced to worship the warrior class...
...on second thought, hey Eric, sit down and shut the fuck up.
-Or you could just say thank you and go about your business.

Its been my observation over the last ten years that people like Eric Harmeling can't wait to force me to celebrate the flaming homosexual lifestyle in the spirit of inclusiveness. (but lord forbid you honor the legion)
-People like Eric can't wait to accuse me of being a racist because I am critical of the black president. (just dont ask that you honor the legion)
-People like Eric demand that I celebrate women's equality by submitting to gender norming and feigned equality. (just dont ask that you honor the legion)
-People like Eric tend to brush off the sacrifice of service members through snide remarks that he is being "being told to kneel down and worship."

On the other end of the spectrum is 90 year old George Baroff.
Mr. Baroff is a psychology professor in Chapel Hill.
Mr Baroff is a member of academia, a smart guy, a man with an education, a man that is obviously above the peasants because he is a professor and is clearly smarter that the unwashed, uneducated masses...
...but wait:
Mr Baroff also served in WW2.
Mr Baroff remembers a time when EVERYBODY served.
Mr. Baroff seems to understand things like respect, sacrifice, and commitment.
...I wonder how snot nosed little punks like Eric would have looked at the world back in the early 1940's?

Mr Baroff seems to think that there is no sense of shared sacrifice anymore.
Mr Baroff thinks there is no shared sense of national purpose.
Mr Baroff has a war record and probably thinks he is entitled to some worship as well.
Mr Baroff is 90 years old... what the fuck does he know. He's just an old man.
...maybe the psychology professor should listen to the wise words of Eric Harmeling and maybe he can expand his horizons.

I respect Mt Baroff.
I don't worship him.

I RESPECT the office of the President of the United States
...others worship him as though he has brought the country back from the brink

I RESPECT the men and women, past and present, that have chosen to serve in the United States Military...
...I don't worship them either. To worship them would be disrespectful. It would imply that they serve with the expectation that they will be worshiped.

There is a vast chasm between worship and that old nuisance that some of us know as respect...
...a VAST fucking chasm.

Some people confuse the two. It's funny, you'd think that people who are SOOO educated and SOOO enlightened that they need to offer us their whimsical insight to the human condition would be able to tell the differenve between "worship" and "respect"
...but they can't

Some people are just too smart for their own good.
...and their condescending tone gives me the shits.

Some of us use memorial day to remember and respect men and women that have forgotten more about respect than people like Eric Harmeling will ever know.
Those men and women gave their last measure so that little shitheads like Eric can have his opinion.
It is with a confused heart that I admit, if the day ever comes, I hope I would be man enough to willingly make that same sacrifice for the benefit of young Eric.

Thank you for you service Mr. Baroff.
Go fuck yourself Eric Harmeling.
...your friends and apologists can go with you.
..........you little hippy fag

[Javadrinker]

Originally Posted by Billy L-bach

Entire Post

So succinctly said, thank you Billy.

[Richard]

Everyone is not cut out to be a warrior and there has never been a time when "everybody" served...although IMO there seems to have come a time in our social history in which the "myth" of such a time ever having existed is a presupposition to any arguments to the contrary.

Here is an interesting essay which summarizes the arguments of the book "The Best War Ever: America and World War II".

Gutes lesen.

Richard

[PSM]

Originally Posted by Richard

Richard

Just a question for you and the other SF and career AD guys who were drafted during the Vietnam war, would you have joined anyway? Or did you end up in a career that you had never seriously considered?

Pat

[Box]

there has never been a time when "everybody" served

Concur 100%
...like I said, George is just a grouchy, 90 year old guy that probably just wants to be worshiped

Mr Baroff is just another guy guilty of perpetuating that whole "greatest generation" myth.

Eric, from Carrboro, has already set everyone straight.
...hell, even our senate behaves like they did during the era of the Roman legions.

"The more things change'........................................... ....
...and all that jazz