Ebola: "Out of Control in West Africa"

[DDD]

Originally Posted by DJ Urbanovsky

I do not disagree. I'm just saying, this isn't something that should be marginalized by likening it to fake things like zombies, or real things, like the flu.

DJ,
We're on the same page, can not ignore this or we're going to be looking up at tassles. But I cannot force myself to agree with WHO (even if they're right).

[Sdiver]

Originally Posted by DJ Urbanovsky

Not an airborne pathogen, they said?

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-20341423

Interesting link. One thing I would like to question the researchers is, they say that the infected pigs were separated from the macaques only by a "wire fence." That spread of the virus "One possibility is that the monkeys became infected by inhaling large aerosol droplets produced from the respiratory tracts of the pigs."

What about the waste (urine/feces)?
How was that waste disposed of from the pens/cages?
Did they just lay down some newspapers and change those or was there some type of "run off channel" coming from the enclosure?

We all know that animals in cages/pens have to have those pens/cages cleaned out periodically. But could not the monkeys somehow become infected through that route? Either playing in (we all know how much monkeys LOVE poop), somehow having it run over to their cage/pen, somehow getting mixed into their food/water after the infected waste has dried and dust particles travel through the air?

As we all have been saying to people, the way to keep from getting infected with Ebola, is DON'T play in an infected persons ick or poop.

Just like the number one rule in EMS states .... "If it's wet, sticky and NOT yours, don't touch it."

Now if, and I say IF while wearing my tin foil hat .... if Ebola has indeed become aerosoled, would that not show some sort of weaponization of the virus? If that be the case, TR's "Be Prepared" threads will be re-read with even more due diligence.


I will say I did recently have a discussion (re. argument) with a young lady who stated that the virus had indeed become airborne.

I asked her for her proof/links, to which she provided the link of the airline passenger who flew between the two African nations, who both have the outbreak within their boarders. This was her proof that the virus had become "Airborne."

I informed her about the different ways in which a virus is transmitted (Flu: Airborne pathogen v. Ebola: Bloodborn pathogen), to which she stated she was correct and that I didn't know what I was talking about.

I just rolled my eyes and told her to say it was all Bush's fault and call me a racist and go away. That her level of stupidity was starting to infect me.

[DIYPatriot]

Originally Posted by DJ Urbanovsky

I do not disagree. I'm just saying, this isn't something that should be marginalized by likening it to fake things like zombies, or real things, like the flu.

I feel you on that. I didn't mean to marginalize it. If my sentiments came across that way then my bad. My point was that I feel that there are greater threats to us than this. Two planes can take out 3k or more lives on what felt like a normal business day in NYC. That being said, I do wonder about the logic of bringing someone with ebola into this country. Not being a health expert, my opinion is relegated to common sense.

[Trapper John]

Originally Posted by Sdiver

Ohhhh ... you waskly SF medic you. I should have known. I mean someone whose training in treating a femur Fx consists of telling their Pts., "Take a couple of Ibuprofens, drink some water and change your socks", might be a bit facetious.

I see you've been reading the SF medics field manual again haven't ya?

[Sdiver]

Originally Posted by DJ Urbanovsky

Not an airborne pathogen, they said?

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-20341423

One possibility is that the monkeys became infected by inhaling large aerosol droplets produced from the respiratory tracts of the pigs..

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

Did a google seach and found this:

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-20341423

BO .. It's that SAME link/story that DJ posted. :facepalm:

I guess what I'm trying to get at is, instead of the virus being transmitted via the aerosol route (sneezing, coughing, pffffftttttttttt), that it could have been transmitted via another way, between the test subjects in yours (and DJ's) link(s).

[Sdiver]

Originally Posted by Trapper John

I see you've been reading the SF medics field manual again haven't ya?

I do my best to follow the advice of two of the greatest minds in human history ....

[Old Dog New Trick]

Originally Posted by Trapper John

SD & BO- I was being facetious wrt to the 'rub dirt in it" comment, but only somewhat.

The survivors of EBOLA probably had malaria co-infection.

SNIP

If it were me and I had a team mate that I suspected to be infected with EBOLA, I would treat him with multiple doses of a vaccine over 3-5 days- don't really care what vaccine either. BCG vaccine or Freund's Complete Adjuvant would be particularly useful or even Coley's Toxin. Just trying to induce an innate immune response (mimic the biological response of survivors) and hopefully eradicate virus in the process. In fact just about any foreign protein would be better than nothing.

So yeah, rub some dirt in it.

If the cure doesn't kill you, it might just save your life!

"How to properly use a defibrillator - shock the patient until you have a cardiac rhythm you can recognize!"

[Old Dog New Trick]

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

Yea like asytole. Now that is a stable rhythm.

Depends on the expansion joints and speed bumps!

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by Broadsword2004

I would like to think that the CDC is the height of professionalism on all this, but in lieu of the scandals regarding the Secret Service (partying), the IRS, the NSA, etc...and the fact that back in the 1990s, the CDC got caught red-handed engaging in biased anti-gun research, and now reading that the CDC also has made mistakes in storing viruses, really makes me concerned.

Many Doctors, Scientists, Bankers, CEO's, Politicians, etc....many people in general for that matter have a tendency to push the limits of better judgement and common sense while ignoring the potentially serious consequences their actions may render. Like many substance abusers and gambling addicts these people don't believe they have a problem, they believe they can control whatever the situation and they ignore the potential ramifications.

[Richard]

Logically reasoned and stated position.

An interviewer asked Johns Hopkins School of Public Health's Dr. Diane Griffin ( http://www.jhsph.edu/faculty/directo.../Griffin/Diane ) about the current ‪ebola‬ outbreak in West Africa. "One of the problems is that West Africa has not really experienced Ebola before," Dr. Griffin notes. "Whereas Uganda and a few other countries have had multiple outbreaks and they're a little more schooled in these control measures."

http://www.vice.com/read/we-asked-an...l-kill-you-730

And an interesting graphic in the news...

Ebola is outstripping control efforts, top WHO official warns
LA Times, 1 Auf 2014

http://www.latimes.com/world/africa/...801-story.html

Richard

[Trapper John]

Broadsword, hence, my Zombie Apacolypse analogy.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

Folks, to keep this in perspective really it is not that many deaths. Granted the victims it is significant but here is something to compare it to. The number of influenza deaths in the UNITED STATES ALONE every year:



http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease...ted_deaths.htm

That is a drop in the bucket. Before the media starts a panic bla bla bla remember no one gets out alive.

And the flu preys mainly on the young, old and weak. You've survived many a flu season.

If Ebola Season hits the US your survival rate might be a lot, lot, lot lower,

[LarryW]

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

A couple issues with that. First African village medicine vs US medical treatment.
Second Its spread is not a easily as the flu.
Third, I am going to die someday and quite frankly it does not scare me anymore. I have been around enough death and came close enough many times I am not afraid of it per say. While I am not looking forward to it by any means I am at peace with it due to some experience in my past. Like a member here that has passed on used to say. Everyone wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die. It is something we must all do but the media detracts from issues of importance by fanning the flames of fear.

What is going on at the border?
What about Iraq?
Is Russia going into Ukraine yet?
These have a bigger chance of causing a large impact on our lives than ebola yet they have seems to disappear when the POTUS stares jacking up the way he deals with the situation. What to see lots of death? Let the another large European war start and Ebola will be very unimportant in the amout of deaths in the world. Hell how many people will killed today in wars and crime around the world? A lot more than ebola killed and most were young healthy people that died.

You're right in the spirit of your argument, sir. Death creates its own perspective, and all the world can ever do is react to it.

Originally Posted by WWI Casualties - Wikipedia

The total number of military and civilian casualties in World War I was over 37 million. There were over 16 million deaths and 20 million wounded ranking it among the deadliest conflicts in human history. The total number of deaths includes about 10 million military personnel and about 7 million civilians.

Previous lesson on perspective:

Originally Posted by 1918 Flu Pandemic – Wikipedia

The 1918 flu pandemic (January 1918 – December 1920) was an unusually deadly influenza pandemic, the first of the two pandemics involving H1N1 influenza virus.[1] It infected 500 million[2] people across the world, including remote Pacific islands and the Arctic, and killed 50 to 100 million of them—three to five percent of the world's population[3] —making it one of the deadliest natural disasters in human history.

So, today some more news.

Originally Posted by Samaritans Purse – Facebook

Samaritan’s Purse doctor Kent Brantly, who contracted the Ebola virus while treating patients in Liberia, is now back home in the United States. A medical evacuation plane equipped with a special containment unit arrived at Dobbins Air Reserve Base in Atlanta today at 11:20. Dr. Brantly was then transported to Emory University Hospital. Emory has an isolation unit set up in collaboration with the CDC to treat patients who are exposed to certain serious infectious diseases.

American Nancy Writebol, a missionary with SIM who also contracted Ebola in Liberia, is expected to arrive in Atlanta within the next few days.

“We thank God that they are alive and now have access to the best care in the world,” said Franklin Graham, president of Samaritan’s Purse. “We are extremely thankful for the help we have received from the State Department, the CDC, the National Institute of Health, World Health Organization and, of course, Emory Hospital.”

Seems that where death comes from don't matter a hill of beans. Death is gonna have its way in the end. All we seem to be able to do is react to it. Grieve it, fight it, and move on. Right now is a time to fight.

For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven: (Ecc 3:1)

[Guy]

Given the constant "hyperbole" in the MSM:

"You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before." - Rahm Emanuel

[frostfire]

Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick

Back in the 90s when I was an 18D, I read "The Hot Zone" (Richard Preston) about Ebola and thought right there and then to not just walk away from medicine, but run!

Yep, I read that too in late 90's and thought it was more horrifying than all Stephen King novels combined. Reston, Marburg, Sudan...and the Zaire strain. What other disease out there than turns you literary to a soup?! I remember we are taught in the disaster response class that emergency worker s(ER MD, RN, EMT, tech, etc.) are akin to the canaries used in the mining industry. When those guys start dropping dead, then it's truly SHTF.

In the 90's, there was also a tv show called Millennium that showed what a (bird-borne) ebola outbreak in the US might look like.

Prayers out to the doctor and the missionary.