07-17-2014, 17:01
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#16
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NorCal
Posts: 15,370
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S**t can happen when everyone's on edge...even when you have the best equipment, solid C3I, and disciplined forces - look at what happened to the Iran Air Airbus A300. And I suspect C3I is a fluctuating concept along the somewhat nebulous Russian-Ukranian border regions right now.
Richard
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“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)
“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
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Richard is offline
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07-17-2014, 17:18
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#17
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Just above the flood plain in Southern Texas
Posts: 3,611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
S**t can happen when everyone's on edge...even when you have the best equipment, solid C3I, and disciplined forces - look at what happened to the Iran Air Airbus A300. And I suspect C3I is a fluctuating concept along the somewhat nebulous Russian-Ukranian border regions right now.
Richard
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Richard, agreed! Chaos breeds confusion but this would be a colossal mistake and a tactical blunder to launch a golden BB into a commercial air cooridor in hopes of downing a legitimate military target.
I remember the IranAir shoot down and whether it was intentional by Iran or not to provoke the US Navy, the results and world opinion was accomplished.
How do you change world opinion? Shoot down a commercial airplane filled with kids on holiday.
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Old Dog New Trick is offline
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07-17-2014, 17:27
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#18
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: By the Sangre De Cristo's
Posts: 153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojaveman
I'll bet on a missile strike.  |
Nah, it'll turn out to be wires arcing in the fuel cell.... 
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or believe to be beautiful. ~ paraphrasing William Morris
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Detonics is offline
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07-17-2014, 17:30
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#19
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Northern Neck Virginia
Posts: 1,138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
S**t can happen when everyone's on edge...even when you have the best equipment, solid C3I, and disciplined forces - look at what happened to the Iran Air Airbus A300. And I suspect C3I is a fluctuating concept along the somewhat nebulous Russian-Ukranian border regions right now.
Richard
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The C3I question is important to weigh when trying to determine who made the decisions to fire on the aircraft. C2 in that environment is probably very centralized, and because of that its hard to imagine that a BUK SAM resource would be managed by 4 brigand separatists. Someone well above the paygrade in that SAM vehicle was probably the person who made the call. The more sophisticated C2 of Russia (or RU supported forward deployed forces) IMHO is more suspect.
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v/r,
LarryW
"Do not go gentle into that good night..."
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LarryW is offline
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07-17-2014, 18:10
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#20
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NorCal
Posts: 15,370
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This is what the Ukranian Security Services are offering in their social media releases - "Kazaks from the Chernukhino checkpoint".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnuHxAR01Jo
Richard
__________________
“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)
“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
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Richard is offline
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07-17-2014, 18:15
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#21
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cochise Co., AZ
Posts: 6,200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detonics
Nah, it'll turn out to be wires arcing in the fuel cell.... |
Today is the 18th anniversary of that event.
BTW, I believe the NTSB got it right.
Pat
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"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." -- Frederick Douglass
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PSM is offline
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07-17-2014, 18:16
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#22
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Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: OK. Thanking Our Brave Soldiers
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
I think the separatists got out of control, or the Russians supporting them did.
Or the POTUS needed a diversion from the illegal immigrants.
TR
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TR Sir,
Your words speak volumes towards the exact same sentiment around here from folks...
Very well said IMHO. It is a tragedy.
Holly
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echoes is offline
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07-17-2014, 18:39
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#23
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: DFW Texas Area
Posts: 4,741
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
A BUK requires armored TELs and radars to employ, it isn't a shoulder fired missile that might be hidden.
TR
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A Man-Pad can't even get a "Target-Lock" on something above 10K' Max, much less have enough Propellant to boost it that far. To get that high, it has to be the size of a Telephone Pole!!
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Martin sends.
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Ambush Master is offline
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07-17-2014, 19:57
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#24
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,806
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I wonder if President Obama is happy with his buddy Vlad right now:
"This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility."
Flexible enough to keep on his fundraising tour and ignore the State sanctioned murders of nearly 300 people?
The ends justify the means, eh tovarisch?
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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07-17-2014, 21:08
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#25
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Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: The Black Hills of SD
Posts: 5,944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
I wonder if President Obama is happy with his buddy Vlad right now:
"This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility."
Flexible enough to keep on his fundraising tour and ignore the State sanctioned murders of nearly 300 people?
The ends justify the means, eh tovarisch?
TR
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Oh Barry's probably doing a serious "Happy Dance" over this.
Takes the focus off his latest scandal.
Which one is it again ????
Oh yeah ... something about illegal immigrants flooding/invading our southern boarder.
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Sdiver is offline
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07-17-2014, 22:01
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#26
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NoVA
Posts: 171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brush Okie
So my question is why some jack ass CEO made the decision to let civilian airline full of their passengers fly over a combat zone? I realize it would cost more in fuel to route around but anyone that didn't see this coming is an idiot.
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Granted, it was a Malaysian flight, but... our FAA advised US carriers to exercise extreme caution in the area back in April; the NOTAM is valid until April 2015.
http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publi...RAINE_SFAR.pdf
Quote:
F. ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS (NOT INCLUDED IN SFAR 113).
U.S. OPERATORS AND AIRMEN FLYING INTO, OUT OF, WITHIN, OR TRANSITING
LVOV (UKLV), KYIV(UKBV), DNEPROPETROVSK (UKDV), AND ODESSA (UKOV)
FIRS, AS WELL AS AIRSPACE IN THE SIMFEROPOL (UKFV) FIR THAT IS OUTSIDE
THE LATERAL LIMITS OF SFAR 113 AIRSPACE DESCRIBED ABOVE, MUST
REVIEW CURRENT SECURITY/THREAT INFORMATION AND NOTAMS; COMPLY
WITH ALL APPLICABLE FAA REGULATIONS, OPERATIONS SPECIFICATIONS,
MANAGEMENT SPECIFICATIONS, AND LETTERS OF AUTHORIZATION,
INCLUDING UPDATING B450; AND EXERCISE EXTREME CAUTION DUE TO THE
CONTINUING POTENTIAL FOR INSTABILITY. U.S. OPERATORS MUST REPORT
SAFETY AND/OR SECURITY INCIDENTS TO THE FAA
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Tree Potato is offline
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07-18-2014, 08:15
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#27
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NorCal
Posts: 15,370
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The corridor being used by the Malaysian Airlines flight was outside the warning areas and 15 of 16 East Asian airlines were currently using it. Not now.
http://news.yahoo.com/why-airlines-d...--finance.html
Richard
__________________
“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)
“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
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Richard is offline
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07-18-2014, 09:09
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#28
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Area Commander
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Raeford, NC
Posts: 3,374
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POTUS: Hey Vlad...I need some help. They're beating me up over this immigration problem and all kinds of other things. Think you can help me out?
PUTIN: Sure...Think a plane being shot down will create enough diversion? We can talk about what you will owe me later.
POTUS: Damn....Great idea...get back to me when you figure out what you need in return.
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"If one day you decide to know yourself...you'll have to choose the warrior path...You'll reach the darkness of your spirit.... Then, if you overcome your fears....You will know who you are."
"De Oppresso Liber"
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Snaquebite is offline
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07-18-2014, 10:07
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#29
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ft. Bragg
Posts: 2,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdiver
Oh Barry's probably doing a serious "Happy Dance" over this.
Takes the focus off his latest scandal.
Which one is it again ????
Oh yeah ... something about illegal immigrants flooding/invading our southern boarder.
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You're close...
It was actually illegal immigrants flooding the IRS computers with claims for VA benefits for free healthcare being denied due to racism by conservative based TEA Party organizations.
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1stindoor is offline
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07-18-2014, 10:28
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#30
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: State of Jefferson
Posts: 560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaquebite
POTUS: Hey Vlad...I need some help. They're beating me up over this immigration problem and all kinds of other things. Think you can help me out?
PUTIN: Sure...Think a plane being shot down will create enough diversion? We can talk about what you will owe me later.
POTUS: Damn....Great idea...get back to me when you figure out what you need in return.
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*ring ring*
PUTIN: Yo! Bama.. Got it. Teach me everything you know about communism.
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Lan is offline
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