Black Community Rejects Trader Joe’s Store Because it Would Attract Too Many Whites

[Sigaba]

IMO, this is an ill considered thread that would have benefited from an OP bolstered by background research and/or more careful reflection.

IME, commercial developments that include a TJ's or another specialty grocery store generate a lot of controversy within the neighborhoods that they're going to be built.

IMO, it is bad form to say that local communities and their stakeholders are best equipped to address local issues and then to dog pile when those issues are being worked out. I think this is especially the case when it is clear that no real effort is made to learn more about the specific contexts of a controversy. <<LINK>>

MOO, it is exceptionally bad form to say that the federal government should not subsidize businesses because it is a form of "socialism" and then to argue the opposite point when a municipal government decides to do just that.

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

IMO, this is an ill considered thread that would have benefited from an OP bolstered by background research and/or more careful reflection.

IME, commercial developments that include a TJ's or another specialty grocery store generate a lot of controversy within the neighborhoods that they're going to be built.

IMO, it is bad form to say that local communities and their stakeholders are best equipped to address local issues and then to dog pile when those issues are being worked out.

From one of the stories in your link:

"PAALF members reiterated previous demands to include an affordable housing component on the two-acre lot and issued several demands."

See, to me, that's "bad form".

You know, Sig, maybe you can explain why people live in affordable housing in the first place.

[tonyz]

The reported lot has been vacant for approximately 20 years.

Presumably, no tax revenue, no water and sewer fees, no jobs, no payroll...no improvement.

Local communities play poker with developers all the time and sometimes F-up.

IME, a good grocery store tends to attract residents and development...a twenty year vacant lot tends to attract...well...trash.

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by Dusty

From one of the stories in your link:

How many other articles did you read? Did you have time to glance at any of City of Portland's master planning documents <<LINK>>?

"PAALF members reiterated previous demands to include an affordable housing component on the two-acre lot and issued several demands."

See, to me, that's "bad form".

IMO/IME, it is a part of a negotiating process. Some groups are going to ask. Others are going to demand. This back and forth happens all the time.

You know, Sig, maybe you can explain why people live in affordable housing in the first place.

You can find some of your answers here. http://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/HUD?...rdablehousing/

Originally Posted by tonyz

The reported lot has been vacant for approximately 20 years.

Presumably, no tax revenue, no water and sewer fees, no jobs, no payroll...no improvement.

Local communities play poker with developers all the time and sometimes F-up. IME, a good grocery store tends to attract residents and development...a twenty year vacant lot tends to attract...well...trash.

IME, what constitutes a "good neighbor" is going to depend upon whom one asks. Trader Joe's is not always considered a good neighbor because of the parking demand a store can generate and its impact on area traffic patterns. Also, as some of the pieces in the Oregonian indicate, TJ may not have been the best of potential neighbors in the way it approached this process <<LINK>>.

It seems that there are no objections to a local government subsidizing in partial secrecy a corporation, nor interest in the PDC's own admission that it had, in the past, contributed to gentrification in the area, nor curiosity about how such conduct might impact contemporaneous conversations about economic development.

[Peregrino]

I'm also curious why a 2 acre lot in a "underdeveloped" part of town that's been vacant for 15+ years is valued at 2.5 million. It doesn't pass the sniff test.

[PRB]

Originally Posted by Peregrino

I'm also curious why a 2 acre lot in a "underdeveloped" part of town that's been vacant for 15+ years is valued at 2.5 million. It doesn't pass the sniff test.

Yeah, no kidding.
BTW, if it is in Portland the local Commissars will dictate who wins/loses. The Commie State Hq.

[tonyz]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

IME, what constitutes a "good neighbor" is going to depend upon whom one asks. Trader Joe's is not always considered a good neighbor because of the parking demand a store can generate and its impact on area traffic patterns. Also, as some of the pieces in the Oregonian indicate, TJ may not have been the best of potential neighbors in the way it approached this process.

Having been to TJ's around the country - yes - parking sucks.

Plenty of parking space on that blighted and underused vacant lot I suspect...no real reason to go though.

[SF_BHT]

Never been to a TJ's...... What is so special about them? It is a Grocery store isn't it?

[tonyz]

Originally Posted by SF_BHT

Never been to a TJ's...... What is so special about them? It is a Grocery store isn't it?

Grocery store, cheap wine, yuppie shit, traffic issues, nothing special...sometimes considered a small step up from an underused vacant lot...at least by some employees, shoppers, property appraisers and tax collectors.

[Guy]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

IMO, this is an ill considered thread that would have benefited from an OP bolstered by background research and/or more careful reflection.

Did you read and or research your response?

The construction project, which was to include a two large anchor buildings and 10 retail shops, was promised to an African American owned construction company.

MOO, it is exceptionally bad form to say that the federal government should not subsidize businesses because it is a form of "socialism" and then to argue the opposite point when a municipal government decides to do just that.

States can use their taxes anyway they want to however, I pay "federal" taxes and there in lies the difference...

Originally Posted by Peregrino

I'm also curious why a 2 acre lot in a "underdeveloped" part of town that's been vacant for 15+ years is valued at 2.5 million. It doesn't pass the sniff test.

I was thinking the exact same thing......

[Bill Harsey]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

IMO, this is an ill considered thread that would have benefited from an OP bolstered by background research and/or more careful reflection.

IME, commercial developments that include a TJ's or another specialty grocery store generate a lot of controversy within the neighborhoods that they're going to be built.

IMO, it is bad form to say that local communities and their stakeholders are best equipped to address local issues and then to dog pile when those issues are being worked out. I think this is especially the case when it is clear that no real effort is made to learn more about the specific contexts of a controversy. <<LINK>>

MOO, it is exceptionally bad form to say that the federal government should not subsidize businesses because it is a form of "socialism" and then to argue the opposite point when a municipal government decides to do just that.

Sigaba, Could you please write in plain English without all the acronyms?

I don't understand what your saying.

[MR2]

Originally Posted by Bill Harsey

Sigaba, Could you please write in plain English without all the acronyms?

I don't understand what your saying.

Sig is covering his butt because some of the large sharks in this forum will occasionally rise up and take a bite out of a otherwise innocent poster.

IMO = In My Opinion
IME = In My Estimation
MOO = My Opinion Only

I'm surprised that he didn't throw in the broad YMMV.

YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary.


Sig, if I've mistranslated, feel free to correct!

[Max_Tab]

Originally Posted by MR2

Sig is covering his butt because some of the large sharks in this forum will occasionally rise up and take a bite out of a otherwise innocent poster.

IMO = In My Opinion
IME = In My Estimation
MOO = My Opinion Only

I'm surprised that he didn't throw in the broad YMMV.

YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary.


Sig, if I've mistranslated, feel free to correct!

IME: In My Experience?

[Pete]

Neighborhood life cycles: the only constant is change

http://lgbtweekly.com/2013/02/14/nei...ant-is-change/

"I am always interested in the differences between the various San Diego neighborhoods and where they are positioned in the ever-changing phases of the neighborhood life cycle............."

The agitators are saying gentrification (going white) but is the neighborhood in the revitalization phase of the neighborhood life cycle? When a neighborhood hits bottom it either revitalizes or dies.

It appears the neighborhood is in the revitalization process. Property values have increased over the past few years. Property owners have decided to fix up their properties and charge higher rents or sell them in an increasing market. This is displacing the poor leading to gentrification.

The black population has shrunk to around 25%. The activists wish to keep that 25% there. The only way will be through subsidized rents - which property owners will not want after they spend thousands upgrading properties - or government built low income housing. The 75% are not going to like that.

The thing about poor people is they don't disappear - they just move to a difference neighborhood.

And not all middle/upper class are white. I would love to see the deeper statistics for the area. Does the 75% include whites, blacks and other minorities who are buying in because the neighborhood is improving and they want to get in at the lowest cost?

[Box]

meh...

This is no different than wondering why Afghans prefer tribal violence to peaceful coexistence. It seems like the citizens prefer a better life...
…clearly the power brokers prefer the status quo.

Bread and circuses; nothing more and nothing less.