NC Gun Trust

[Sapper124]

Gents,

Does anyone have experience setting up or working with a lawyer in NC to set up a Gun trust for NFA purchases? I have found a couple website advertisements and names of lawyers offering a "quick $400 paypal payment" for the service but looking for anyone with experience with one that can vouch for the services.

Overseas at the moment but want to set it up so that when I get back I can make a few purchases before I head back out again (spend that deployment money before it burns a hole in my pocket of savings account )

[MK262MOD1]

I have done this. Used it for over 10 years now. What are your specific questions?

[35NCO]

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/

I have used this guy to direct me to the best NFA lawyers in other states before.

With trusts:
Pay attention to upcoming changes with BATFE, the comment period on CLEO signature elimation seemed to get sent in a new direction. This highlighted other nonsense that the ATF are now looking at "loopholes" in trusts. You can look for updates at the BATFE website as well as the DOJ. (Worth paying attention to if DOJ trys to invailidate State specfic trusts.) Another good source for NFA news is:
http://www.nfatca.org/

and of course the magazine publication "Small Arms Review"

I *think you can now submit Form 1's and pay through the new ATF forms website as well. It should save you some time on a Form 1. Otherwise you have to go through your local Class 3.

Good luck and welcome to the NFA club. Please remain patient for the next 12 months while they process your forms. (When waiting, Dont call them for at least a few months.)

[blue02hd]

If you look around, or even check with any reputable dealer, you will be able to find what you need around the 100.00 mark.

400.00 is a bit much imo.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by blue02hd

If you look around, or even check with any reputable dealer, you will be able to find what you need around the 100.00 mark.

400.00 is a bit much imo.

For a lawyer to create a trust?

TR

[MR2]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

For a lawyer to create a trust?

TR

I don't know about using the words lawyer and trust in the same sentence...

[35NCO]

I would be very careful about dealer "trusts". ATF has revoked and invalidated some dealer trusts. The ATF have federal attorneys that do take the time to review the trusts from time to time. Just for the sake of looking for problems. It has left the individuals screwed that they had to get lawyers or have illegally transferred NFA items and go to jail. One way or another it cost the individuals that took the cheap route a lot of money in the long run to get it all squared away again. That is of course in the scenario that ATF is even willing to cooperate with the individual. They tend to lean towards prosecutions instead of righting well intentioned situations.

Not to say its impossible to get a good trust at a reasonable price. I paid $300 for mine. Its over 60 pages and covers many good scenarios. However, I feel that it was exceptionally thorough and the lawyer is well known. It is one of those things that you really get what you pay for IMHO. It also offers the support of the lawyer if you do have some issues in the future. I have had ups and downs with ATF, I just like it when things work the first time. A good trust should work the first time every time, forever. Even when you are long gone.

Also a lawyer can help you with "constructive intent" issues and having the right people and not the wrong people on the trust. Things like who has the combo to the safe where your NFA items are stored is serious business. If they are not on the trust, you may have a problem. There are a few things to think about when you have the documents put together. Consider everything and many scenarios of "what if". Take it very seriously. Everyone has a different situation. Getting into NFA requires exceptional discipline and thought. As well as good paranoia to stay ahead of easy mistakes that could put you away for a long time. Good folks have been to jail with NFA because they did not consider simple things that are clearly stated in the NFA, the Huges Amendment, and case law.

At this time especially the ATF and DOJ are NOT your friends. Never forget that. The ATF does tend to change their priority's based on the current white house administration. The Bush administration was a lot better for ATF help and listening for the sake of changing bad rules and rulings. Today, you are lucky if you get any help at all.

[blue02hd]

Originally Posted by 35NCO

I would be very careful ,,,,,,,,

Great post. Yes, I paid 100.00 for a Trust that was approved for transaction XXX by ATF. Your post has me immediately planning a review once I am "safeside" again. My alarm bells aren't going off yet, but I'll admit my Trust is not 60 pages in length either. Considering it was drafted four years ago, no harm in having a second look to make sure it is in order. I don't think I'd do well in prison.

And this is why I love this site. "What we know is finite, what we don't is infinite." I think.

Truthfully I can't remember what that fortune cookie said exactly,,,,

[35NCO]

Thank you for the reply blue.

To address the PM of the OP, I will post here for the good of the site.

I have never dealt with NC before in NFA. However, after looking into NC a little more I STRONGLY suggest using a lawyer there. The way the law looks in terms of NFA is murky at best with trusts. (I AM NOT a lawyer and this is NOT legal advice. Just another NFA guy.)

Check this out:

http://law.onecle.com/north-carolina.../14-288.8.html

North Carolina General Statutes § 14-288.8 Manufacture, assembly, possession, storage, transportation, sale, purchase, delivery, or acquisition of weapon of mass death and destruction ; exceptions

(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, it is unlawful for any person to manufacture, assemble, possess, store, transport, sell, offer to sell, purchase, offer to purchase, deliver or give to another, or acquire any weapon of mass death and destruction.

(b) This section does not apply to any of the following:

(1) Persons exempted from the provisions of G.S. 14-269 with respect to any activities lawfully engaged in while carrying out their duties.

(2) Importers, manufacturers, dealers, and collectors of firearms, ammunition, or destructive devices validly licensed under the laws of the United States or the State of North Carolina, while lawfully engaged in activities authorized under their licenses.

(3) Persons under contract with the United States, the State of North Carolina, or any agency of either government, with respect to any activities lawfully engaged in under their contracts.

(4) Inventors, designers, ordnance consultants and researchers, chemists, physicists, and other persons lawfully engaged in pursuits designed to enlarge knowledge or to facilitate the creation, development, or manufacture of weapons of mass death and destruction intended for use in a manner consistent with the laws of the United States and the State of North Carolina.

(5) Persons who lawfully possess or own a weapon as defined in subsection (c) of this section in compliance with 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53, 5801-5871. Nothing in this subdivision shall limit the discretion of the sheriff in executing the paperwork required by the United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for such person to obtain the weapon.

(c) The term "weapon of mass death and destruction" includes:

(1) Any explosive or incendiary:

a. Bomb; or

b. Grenade; or

c. Rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces; or

d. Missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce; or

e. Mine; or

f. Device similar to any of the devices described above; or

(2) Any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell of a type particularly suitable for sporting purposes) which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, and which has any barrel with a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter; or

(3) Any firearm capable of fully automatic fire, any shotgun with a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length or an overall length of less than 26 inches, any rifle with a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length or an overall length of less than 26 inches, any muffler or silencer for any firearm, whether or not such firearm is included within this definition. For the purposes of this section, rifle is defined as a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder; or

(4) Any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into any weapon described above and from which a weapon of mass death and destruction may readily be assembled.

The term "weapon of mass death and destruction" does not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line-throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684(2), 4685, or 4686 of Title 10 of the United States Code; or any other device which the Secretary of the Treasury finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, is an antique, or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes, in accordance with Chapter 44 of Title 18 of the United States Code.

(d) Any person who violates any provision of this section is guilty of a Class F felony. (1969, c. 869, s. 1; 1975, c. 718, ss. 6, 7; 1977, c. 810; 1983, c. 413, ss. 1, 2; 1993, c. 539, s. 1228; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2001-470, s. 3; 2011-268, s. 8.)

With that, here is a good primer for NFA and for NFA in NC:

http://ncsilencer.blogspot.com/2011/...fa-trusts.html

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2008/0...t-nfa-fir.html

http://northcarolinaguntrust.com/nfa-trust

Watch and pay attention to the update to this; "Machine Guns, Destructive Devices and Certain Other Firearms: Background Checks for Responsible Persons of a Corporation, Trust or Other Legal Entity with Respect to Making or Transferring a Firearm"

http://www.regulations.gov/#!docketD...=ATF-2013-0001

[MK262MOD1]

Trusts are legit in NC and in fact in a lot of counties are the only safe way to go.

[NurseTim]

I email a couple of lawyers about this. They wanted $1000-1500.
Anybody know a gun friendly lawyer in Wilmington?