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Old 09-06-2013, 10:35   #31
Dusty
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Interesting how Obama wants to avenge the deaths of a bunch of Muslims in Syria, but not the death of Americans in Benghazi.
Amen.
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:28   #32
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Interesting how Obama wants to avenge the deaths of a bunch of Muslims in Syria, but not the death of Americans in Benghazi.
Nominated for quote of the day.

How ironic it would be if we do the missile strikes, and with all the advanced notice the Syrians have had, to shuffle around, put in place human shields, how much collateral damage do you think there would be?? It would be a shame if we killed more than the original gas attacks...

I wonder how the admin would cope with that???
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:34   #33
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Nominated for quote of the day.

How ironic it would be if we do the missile strikes, and with all the advanced notice the Syrians have had, to shuffle around, put in place human shields, how much collateral damage do you think there would be?? It would be a shame if we killed more than the original gas attacks...

I wonder how the admin would cope with that???
That's the lamestream media's job.
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Old 09-06-2013, 12:29   #34
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Originally Posted by miclo18d View Post
War-------------------Reason for entering
Reasons for entering a war are not always the same as the causes of wars.

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Probably, but guess what I don't give a shit. It is none of our business.
In which case you should either stop identifying yourself as a Republican or claiming that you have an "interest" in history and then pointing to the "lessons" of the past.

In regards to the former, the GOP has made a priority out of promoting freedom abroad. If you're going to ignore that priority because you don't like the president or you don't like the people who might benefit in the short run from American intervention you're being inconsistent (at best).

In regards to the latter, if you're going to talk about the "lessons" of history (which you often do), but then ignore the "lessons" of taking a head in the sand approach to regional conflicts in the era of modern warfare you're being intellectually inconsistent (at best).
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Old 09-06-2013, 13:19   #35
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Reasons for entering a war are not always the same as the causes of wars.
Hence why I wrote 'reason for entering' and not 'cause of'

Causes are usually blurry and lost in the outcome as the winner gets to write the history books.

Sometimes the reason is the cause and the cause the reason.

My list was to show how "noble causes", have given way to "junk science".
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Old 09-06-2013, 13:34   #36
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Originally Posted by Sigaba View Post
In regards to the former, the GOP has made a priority out of promoting freedom abroad. If you're going to ignore that priority because you don't like the president or you don't like the people who might benefit in the short run from American intervention you're being inconsistent (at best).

In regards to the latter, if you're going to talk about the "lessons" of history (which you often do), but then ignore the "lessons" of taking a head in the sand approach to regional conflicts in the era of modern warfare you're being intellectually inconsistent (at best).

The GOP and I think even most Democrats think freedom is a honorable reason to go to war.. The problem in many of the current regional conflicts is neither side is espousing freedom.

SO, The next reason, is it in the USA vested interested to interfere, for what ever reason.

Take the case of Kony, freedom will carry the reason, because they sure don't have anything else we need. Is his opposition not as bad?, or may be better?. Who knows. Yet we have done very little out side of the UN mandates to step on that bug.

There are probably over a dozen regional conflicts in Africa alone. In most cases there is no good guys vs bad guys. They are all bad guys and the "vested interest" thing,, it doesn't hold sand.

Syria is one of the areas that does not have history of freedom, nor a history of good guys..

Are we being intellectually inconsistent??
Or maybe we are politically motivated inconsistently??

For what ever reason,, I do not see any reason to do anything for or against that area.

My $00.00002..
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Old 09-06-2013, 13:39   #37
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In regards to the former, the GOP has made a priority out of promoting freedom abroad.
Freedom? The proposed actions by our government are not promoting freedom for anyone--no matter what bullshit passes from our politicians lips.
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Old 09-06-2013, 13:40   #38
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...all
Amen
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Old 09-06-2013, 16:55   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glebo View Post
Nominated for quote of the day.

How ironic it would be if we do the missile strikes, and with all the advanced notice the Syrians have had, to shuffle around, put in place human shields, how much collateral damage do you think there would be?? It would be a shame if we killed more than the original gas attacks...

I wonder how the admin would cope with that???
If it happens. We will send a few million dollar cruise missiles into a mountain side, empty buildings and throw in one of Assads Palaces for fun. My guess is we are going to do nothing.
People don't realize how dangerous it is for a president to show weakness like Obama has done. I can't think of any political disaster that even comes close to this. Well maybe Lincoln and Kennedy
Thats why Putin came out and did his press conference with in an hour of Obama;s back down speech. It's a dog pile domestic and foreign. If this was his last year it wouldn't matter to much. But we still have three FU@#$ing years of this.
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Old 09-06-2013, 17:18   #40
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More Syria Comics

.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg OB-YU499_noonan_D_20130905174810.jpg (21.9 KB, 45 views)
File Type: jpg obama-syria-red-line.jpg (65.2 KB, 42 views)
File Type: jpg 20130904edsuc-a_s638x356.jpg (51.4 KB, 42 views)
File Type: jpg 136965_600.jpg (108.9 KB, 42 views)
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Last edited by akv; 09-06-2013 at 17:28.
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Old 09-07-2013, 06:47   #41
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It makes absolutely no sense for Assad to use chemical weapons. He has the rebels backed in a corner. He was about to launch an offensive to crush them even more. An offensive that's been put on hold because of this situation. He knew using chemical weapons would bring the U.S into the fight. Even if he was loosing it's not like chemical weapons give you some great tactical advantage, They hinder your own troops greatly. They actually suck as a weapon. It's a dirty weapon that bogs down both sides. The military in general hates the thought of using them.
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Old 09-08-2013, 10:48   #42
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Interesting perspective. 3 1/2 min.

David Brooks: Obama's Decision To Go To Congress "Very Unfortunate"
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Old 09-08-2013, 13:17   #43
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So what happens if the "O"man doesn't get Congressional approval. Does he still have the authority to strike?
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Old 09-12-2013, 13:31   #44
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Interesting Op-Ed below - the author sets forth moral and strategic reasons for intervening in Syria. At least he acknowledges that such an intervention by the US will not fix the mess. He also appears to conclude that the Assad regime let loose the gas - despite there being some real questions of evidence. We know the Assad regime has the weapons but it seems unclear if Assad ordered their use...plausible deniability...I don't know. What a CF.


SHOULD THE WORLD BE INTERVENING MILITARILY IN SYRIA?

By Jeffrey White

The Economist

September 10, 2013

To view this article on our website, go to:

http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/p...arily-in-syria

******************************

Washington Institute military expert Jeffrey White contributes to an online debate on the merits and goals of potential intervention.

******************************

Two and a half years into Syria's internal war, the situation has only become more complex, both politically and militarily. What was never an easy decision with respect to external intervention has become more challenging. This complexity, and attendant uncertainty, increases the difficulty of making a decision to intervene in Syria and of doing it right. It does not remove the need to do so.

Now may not be the best time to intervene, but there may not be a better time. The regime's behaviour is becoming worse. It is increasing its violence against civilians and has no intention of negotiating its suicide. The regime and its allies intend to defeat the opposition on Syria's battlefields, not to negotiate a transfer of power. Extremist elements within the rebel forces have risen in importance and capability. The sectarian aspect of the war has deepened.

Military intervention is already underway in Syria. It has been so for some time and is affecting the military situation in significant ways. The situation is something like the Spanish Civil War. One side is enjoying active and direct intervention while the other has only limited and hesitant support.

Intervention by the regime's allies -- Iran, Hizbullah, Russia -- has had the most impact on the war. Arms, ammunition, spare parts, soldiers, and advisers from its allies have kept the regime alive and fighting. Without this continuous stream of support the regime would likely have fallen. With it Bashar Assad has been able to fight on, employing increasingly higher levels of violence.

Outside powers have also intervened on the side of Syria's rebels, providing money, arms and ammunition, and permitting volunteers to join the rebels in Syria. This assistance has significantly improved rebel capabilities to engage regime forces, especially its critical armoured units. External aid has helped to keep the rebels in the fight. It has been far from enough to win the war.

There are two basic reasons for intervention on the side of the rebels. One is moral; the other is strategic. Morally, the world should seek to put an end to a regime that is responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of Syrians, injury to tens of thousands more, and the creation of a refugee population numbered in the millions. The regime has conducted unrestricted warfare against the Sunni civilian population, employing conventional and irregular forces and using all the weapons and munitions in its arsenal, including high explosive, fragmentation, incendiary and now chemical. This wanton killing and maiming should be stopped and those responsible held accountable.

Intervention is also strategically sound. One outcome that needs to be prevented is a victory for Mr Assad. This is a possibility with only too clear consequences for Syria and the region. Intervention can prevent that outcome. The Iran-Syria-Hizbullah axis is a deeply challenging artefact in the Middle East region. One inimical to American, Western, and other regional states' interests, and a constant threat to regional stability. Aggressive, threatening, and possessing large and growing military capabilities, this alliance needs to be broken. Bringing Mr Assad down can accomplish that. Also important strategically is limiting the influence of extremist elements during the armed struggle against the regime and in the post-Assad situation. Intervention can weaken the extremists relative to more moderate elements both in the conflict against Mr Assad and during the political struggle that will occur after he is gone. Then, too, intervention can lead to influence in the post-Assad political struggle. Groups that have benefited from military assistance are more likely to be willing to work with those that helped than those that did not. This does not mean that those that provided assistance will control the situation, but the opportunity for influence will likely be there.

There are some things that intervention cannot do. It cannot "fix" Syria. Ultimately the Syrian people have to do that. But intervention can make Syria less broken. Intervention cannot end the war overnight or cleanly. But it can hasten the end of the regime, the central component of the conflict. Intervention cannot prevent reprisals or sectarian violence. But it can reduce the potential for them and strengthen the capabilities of more moderate elements within the opposition.

Intervention is not without risk. Casualties to intervention forces, inadvertently aiding the wrong groups, mission creep, increased involvement by Hizbullah and Iran, and the always-to-be-feared "unintended consequences" are possibilities. But the risks of doing nothing are also real: regime victory, triumphant extremism and chaos without influence.

External intervention needs to be conducted with a clear strategy and adequate means. The goals of external intervention should include ending the Assad regime, supporting moderate elements within the armed opposition, limiting the influence of extreme Islamist elements and creating conditions for a stable Syria. The strategy to achieve these goals should involve both direct military action against regime capabilities and indirect action to build up the combat capabilities of moderate units. Combining direct and indirect intervention offers the best prospects for a quick end to the regime and a favourable outcome within Syria.

******************************

Jeffrey White is a Defense Fellow at The Washington Institute and a former senior defense intelligence officer.
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