I would appreciate some pistol shooting advice.

Cake_14N · 06-21-2012, 08:17

First off, per Team Sergeant's suggestion, I am working very hard at grip strength and upper body PT. Not quite at 100 push-ups yet (75 and working) and the grip is progressing nicely. I can do 10 minutes of grip flexions using one of those grip springs 3 times a day.

Here is the issue. I have an M&P, .40cal. I have put about 2k rounds through it in the past 18 months and I am consistently 2 to 3 inches down and right of center at 7 yards. I am left-eye dominant and shoot left-handed. I hesitate to move out further until I correct my problem.

I have had one of the range masters at my local range put 50 rounds through the pistol to check if it was a sight issue, and he drilled the center of the target. Obviously the issue is me and this pistol. I swap out to my 1911 and I am drilling out the center of the target.

I would really appreciate any suggestions and advice.

Cake

Dusty · 06-21-2012, 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cake_14N

First off, per Team Sergeant's suggestion, I am working very hard at grip strength and upper body PT. Not quite at 100 push-ups yet (75 and working) and the grip is progressing nicely. I can do 10 minutes of grip flexions using one of those grip springs 3 times a day.

Here is the issue. I have an M&P, .40cal. I have put about 2k rounds through it in the past 18 months and I am consistently 2 to 3 inches down and right of center at 7 yards. I am left-eye dominant and shoot left-handed. I hesitate to move out further until I correct my problem.

I have had one of the range masters at my local range put 50 rounds through the pistol to check if it was a sight issue, and he drilled the center of the target. Obviously the issue is me and this pistol. I swap out to my 1911 and I am drilling out the center of the target.

I would really appreciate any suggestions and advice.

Cake

Sell the Smitty and use the money for ACP ammo.

Destrier · 06-21-2012, 09:17

Left hand shooters that are down and right are 'typically' jerking the trigger or gripping the trigger guard with the off hand finger.

If you want to send a short video of your shooting, having someone focused on your hands from behind and left and behind and right. That would be useful for any further thoughts on it.

Good luck

Or you can stop by the house and we can go shooting.

Oku · 06-21-2012, 10:59

Cake,

I'd hit the range with Destrier.....as often as possible

I have some drills you can try as well and I'd bet that most of 'em are familiar to the QPs.

Dry fire...really a lot. Focus on keeping the sights aligned before during and after trigger pull/press....you can add a coin balanced on the slide (quarter or $.50 if you can find one)...don't let it fall.
Ball point pen (clicky type). Put the barrel of the pen across the base of your thumb (not in your palm) and activate/deactivate with your trigger finger. This will reinforce a "straight press" motion. (I know the M&P has a trigger that pivots and has a longer range of motion than a 1911, so we want to practice with a longer press)
Insert a dummy round or 2 at random in your mags...you'll know immediately what you're doing with your hands. I'll do this myself, then "shuffle" the mags, but best if someone else loads 'em for you...that way the "dummy rounds" are a surprise.
Get a squirt gun....Yup, a squirt gun (even a spot bottle will help if you run it with your trigger finger). Your goal is to get the whole stream of water to hit in the same spot.
Last one. Fire at least 1-2 mags one handed, using only your middle finger and thumb to hold the weapon. Concentrate on pressing your trigger finger straight back into the web of your hand. That grip sounds (and is) a bit counter-intuitive, and will be a bit scary the first time you try it, but by golly it works really well.

The one thing to keep in mind for all of these is that marksmanship is about one, and only one thing...sight alignment...get it....keep it. Rifle, shotgun, pistol, squirt gun...it doesn't matter....sight alignment.

**Team Sergeant** · 06-21-2012, 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oku

Cake,

I'd hit the range with Destrier.....as often as possible

I have some drills you can try as well and I'd bet that most of 'em are familiar to the QPs.

Dry fire...really a lot. Focus on keeping the sights aligned before during and after trigger pull/press....you can add a coin balanced on the slide (quarter or $.50 if you can find one)...don't let it fall.
Ball point pen (clicky type). Put the barrel of the pen across the base of your thumb (not in your palm) and activate/deactivate with your trigger finger. This will reinforce a "straight press" motion. (I know the M&P has a trigger that pivots and has a longer range of motion than a 1911, so we want to practice with a longer press)
Insert a dummy round or 2 at random in your mags...you'll know immediately what you're doing with your hands. I'll do this myself, then "shuffle" the mags, but best if someone else loads 'em for you...that way the "dummy rounds" are a surprise.
Get a squirt gun....Yup, a squirt gun (even a spot bottle will help if you run it with your trigger finger). Your goal is to get the whole stream of water to hit in the same spot.
Last one. Fire at least 1-2 mags one handed, using only your middle finger and thumb to hold the weapon. Concentrate on pressing your trigger finger straight back into the web of your hand. That grip sounds (and is) a bit counter-intuitive, and will be a bit scary the first time you try it, but by golly it works really well.

The one thing to keep in mind for all of these is that marksmanship is about one, and only one thing...sight alignment...get it....keep it. Rifle, shotgun, pistol, squirt gun...it doesn't matter....sight alignment.

If you dry fire "a lot" and you're already doing it wrong, do you really think that reinforcing a bad habit is a good idea?

Do you see me advising on how to make knives?

TS

Cake_14N · 06-21-2012, 12:13

Quote:

Cake,

I'd hit the range with Destrier.....as often as possible

I would love to hit the range, but unless Destrier has moved and not updated his profile.. Albuquerque is a long way from New York.

The video idea sounds like something I should do. At least then I can try to see what I am doing wrong.

Gene Econ · 06-21-2012, 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cake_14N

I would love to hit the range, but unless Destrier has moved and not updated his profile.. Albuquerque is a long way from New York.

The video idea sounds like something I should do. At least then I can try to see what I am doing wrong.

Cake:

Ball and dummy training ought to show you quite vividly if you are keeping the barrel pointed into the middle of the target when the shot is fired. You will see the sights hold or move, one or the other, providing your eyes are open when you fire the shot.

If you are having problems with keeping the barrel pointed into the middle of the target when pulling the trigger, it will be obvious with ball and dummy. Then it is up to you to figure out how to solve the problem. This stuff doesn't take a PhD to understand.

Once you understand what is going on, both on the plus side as well as the negative side, you can come up with a training plan that can probably fix problems relatively well but probably not permanently.

Gene

**Team Sergeant** · 06-22-2012, 10:36

I agree with Gene, ball and dummy with someone watching you is a good idea.

Cake_14N · 06-22-2012, 12:14

Next trip to the range I will video myself shooting the ball and dummy drill and see what I can discover.

Thank you all for the suggestions.

Cake

**Team Sergeant** · 06-22-2012, 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cake_14N

Next trip to the range I will video myself shooting the ball and dummy drill and see what I can discover.

Thank you all for the suggestions.

Cake

Two words: Snap Caps.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/6-1013588

Cake_14N · 06-22-2012, 13:22

I have about 6 or so. I will get the wife to load the magazines and insert one or more in random order so I don't know when the dud is comming.

Dusty · 06-22-2012, 13:42

The problem is prolly the "safe" trigger mechanism.

When I shot a G19 the first time, my rounds went low and left.

Like I said, if you hitting the x with the .45, what's the problem? Are you going into some kind of competition, or something?

Oku · 06-22-2012, 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

If you dry fire "a lot" and you're already doing it wrong, do you really think that reinforcing a bad habit is a good idea?

Do you see me advising on how to make knives?

TS

TS,

Sent a PM last night, and will refrain from posting on this until further direction/correction is received.

Respectfully,

Oku

Rob_Frey · 06-22-2012, 13:54

What part of your finger are you using to pull the trigger? The tip, or the first joint?

koz · 06-22-2012, 14:14

Another good training tool is a video camera. Often our minds fool us thinking we are doing something properly but in reality we're not even close. Seeing yourself screwing up may help correct the problem.

Also for grip strength - I used to use the "sporting goods store variety" (30-40lbs) and thought I had good grip strength. Then I tried a guy's grip spring and could barely close it once. Look at Captain's of Crush grippers. My' buddies was a #1 (140lbs). I bought the first three. Three mins with the Guide (60lbs) or Sport (80lbs) will do wonders. Do sets of 50-75 with the Trainer (100lbs).