Pissing on video

[Gypsy]

Originally Posted by stfesta

I don't know how to put a pic here. If it worked woo hoo. If not oh well.
sf

It worked...

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by stfesta

I don't know how to put a pic here. If it worked woo hoo. If not oh well.
sf

Hypocrisy. Thank you!

[PRB]

You Pee for me Marine!

Originally Posted by plato

"Conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline" seems to stretch to cover everything.

I'd lean more on an NJP. Article 15 would be their CO's friend. Misconduct, discredit thrown upon themselves and the USMC. In my environment they'd call it captain's mast. I've seen a few and an old man worth his salt definitely knows how to tear you a new one. A fine, extra duties ( it used to be pretty easy for people in non LE positions to see when someone on base had fu*%&d up as you'd see them in blue coveralls, wandering around with one latex gloved hand and a black trash bag picking up cigarette butts and other minor litter and of course followed by an E-5 or above who looked terribly pissed and annoyed. Let us just say that when they still did that, throwing a cigarette butt on the ground wasn't that big of a deal since you had to give those guys something to work on. Apparently now the blue coverall's detrimental for the individual's dignity... BS ), . I don't know how liberty restrictions programs work when deployed.

Anyhow, I agree with who's saying that we should definitely look at the big picture with this one. Those guys absolutely did a huge favour to the plethora of local detractors of Uncle Sam. Not a case if a taliban leader immediately released a public statement piling on it and accusing the US military of countless unreported profanations of the same nature.

[Golf1echo]

From " The Daily Norseman"
I can't tell you how many times I've been asked that as a Vikings fan. Most people think it's just a common, Scandanavian greeting...and it is. It can also translate into bowl, as in drink from a bowl. And although there are varying opinions on how 'skol' came to be a greeting, this is my most favorite one. Let's see how we can tie these two disparate meanings--(bowl and hello) together.

Star-divide

Back in the Middle Ages, rampaging bands of Vikings were roaming Europe and kicking the shit out of people. From Lindisfarme to France it didn't matter. For about 500 years, the boogeyman would check his closet before he went to bed to make sure there weren't any Vikings in it.

Anyway, at the end of the battle, Viking warriors would decapitate the king or leader of the tribe/army they had just vanquished and that night would drink from his skull--spelled skoll--as a sign of respect for the fallen opponent. It was only then, Viking warriors believed, could an opponent who had fought valiantly be allowed into Valhalla.

In battle, Vikings would urge each other forward by yelling "SKOLL" to one another. By doing so, they were telling each other to keep it up so they could drink from the skull (and the top of a lopped off skull looks roughly like a..wait for it...BOWL!!) of the Vanquished that night.

These days, it just is a way to urge each other on to victory in an American football game, but if you piss us off too much, we'll put Packer Nation's head on a pole, parade it around, and then drink some Grain Belt from it, so keep one eye open bitches, because the Vikings can go medieval on you in a freakin' heartbeat.

So, at least mythologically speaking, both meanings originate from our Ancestors kicking the hell out of some poor bastard who was the leader of some hopelessly pathetic tribe that dared to give us the finger.

I mean, think about it...after a hard day of rampaging, killing, and pillaging, you're beat. You're dog-assed tired. All you want to do is sit around a campifre, drink some grog, and shoot the shit with your buddies. You're too freakin' tired to strike up a conversation, and as a warrior, you don't gush over someone when you see that they're still alive, so you come up with simple, one or two word phrases that capture the essence of the moment.

Today, it's "dude".

Back then, as the skull of the poor bastard (who hours before was some minor bigshot) is passed around, all you have the energy to do is give a wry smile over to a fellow warrior and say....skol. One word conveyed it all.

So skol has evolved from a battle cry of warriors to a common salutation or toast to friends, which in a way, it always was.

Only under much different circumstances.

And if it is just a myth, as many claim, well, it's one hell of a myth, and until someone can prove to me they DIDN'T drink from the skull of a vanquished opponent, then By God, they did. Because until then, it's just opinion, and I like this side of the story a lot better, because it's totally badass.

"May we always drink from the skulls of our enemies!"

Skol.

They can smoke you but they can't eat you....for the most part.
Cultures throughout history have celebrated victory over their opponents in war many different ways....What doesn't get said is that you can cartwheel someone with a 7.62 round but to pee on them....
If you wouldn't start nothin, there wouldn't be nothin.

Are you trying to say that the 4 marines were just putting in being their own version of some old viking after-battle honouring gesture?

[Marauder06]

Originally Posted by twistedsquid

this is a by product of the volunteer army...not professional soldiers

Could you explain that? AFAIK, we have both a military that is both professional and volunteer.

[Golf1echo]

Originally Posted by Sierra Lima

Are you trying to say that the 4 marines were just putting in being their own version of some old viking after-battle honouring gesture?

I wasn't there and know nothing other than what I see in the pictures. What I am saying is this would not be the first time in history that something happened after foes were killed. I am saying this kind of ritual is as old as time. The reason? They may not even know. Maybe a result of lack of ritual maybe dominance, disrespect, after action celebration, etc...Maybe they were doing what they could, can you imagine if they were filmed harvesting a bowl. Personally I have bigger priorities of things I am concerned with. Bless our soldiers and their fight...

[PRB]

This is minor bullshit, who knows what the circumstances were.
Art15 (suspended) for doing something they should not do, and they know they should not do, and some xtra duty.
If the American public doesn't like who is fighting their wars then they can collectively get off their 99.3 percent asses and join up...that includes all of the talking heads children and the plotico's too.
The Senior leadership should get their collective heads out of their asses and put this in the proper perspective.
If you have not been in serious combat then maybe you will not understand. Period.

[twistedsquid]

Originally Posted by Marauder06

Could you explain that? AFAIK, we have both a military that is both professional and volunteer.

"volunteer" and "professional" were used generically to identify a code of conduct...i should have been more clear in my statement...thanks

[plato]

Originally Posted by Sierra Lima

I'd lean more on an NJP. Article 15 would be their CO's friend. Misconduct, discredit thrown upon themselves and the USMC. In my environment they'd call it captain's mast.

I wasn't thinking level of punishment on that, but tossing out the "cover-all" for "What part of the UCMJ covers that?".

As I recall, a reprimand or Article 15 could save a good man's butt, if someone higher in the chain of command tended to overreact to a particular offense or a particular group of soldiers. Seems that, once punishment was imposed, even the relatively "mild" forms, additional proceedings were a "no go".

[Dozer523]

Originally Posted by PRB

This is minor bullshit, who knows what the circumstances were.
Art15 (suspended) for doing something they should not do, and they know they should not do, and some xtra duty.

The Senior leadership should get their collective heads out of their asses and put this in the proper perspective.
If you have not been in serious combat then maybe you will not understand. Period.

Maybe PBR, But these guys are toast. The only question is how far into the loaf they are going to go before the power gets shut down. I' would not want to be in the first four level of leadership here.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by Eagle5US

Perhaps you are not looking at the big picture here - the retribution and hindrance of forward momentum for those teams working with the villagers on the ground. The validation of the enemies characterization of US Forces. The propaganda value that this film has provided to the bad guys is every bit as bad (if not worse) than Abu-Ghrab.

Yes, most folks do live sheltered lives. The military is at war, the public is at the mall, smart bombs must be able to be dropped in the middle of a crowded playground and kill ONLY the one bad guy who is dressed in a suit wearing the concealed explosive vest.

That, unfortunately, does not excuse this type of behavior by a PROFESSIONAL MILITARY.

Think about it...

Could not have said it better.

An ignorant move on the part of a few really stupid individuals.

[PRB]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

Could not have said it better.

An ignorant move on the part of a few really stupid individuals.

Yup, they were wrong.
However, if you think this act will set us back greatly hearts/minds that's a consideration but I doubt it will have much impact after 10 years of war.
Won't affect the Taliban at all, they totally understand depridations as cutting of your head with a dull knife is more their style.
The population has experienced much worse at the hands of the Talib.
It's been blown out of proportion....if it were a common deal and sop yeah, an issue. Afghanis aren't as stupid as we seem to think they are.

[Sigaba]

The "hearts and minds" I am most concerned with are those in the United States. A persistent theme in civil-military relations is Americans' ambivalence towards the armed services. While public confidence in the armed forces is much greater than it was four decades ago, I dread that events such as the one depicted in the video will be used to swing the pendulum in the other direction.

As an added example, I would point to the ongoing coverage of Itzcoatl Ocampo. The local news media lead their stories about the man with the facts that [A] he was a Marine who [B] served in Iraq without establishing the connection between those two facts and the crimes for which he has been charged. Consequently, the implied argument is that A and B contributed to C because A and B proceeded C. This "logic" is already fueling comments in the blogosphere that demonize all members of the armed services, that question the professionalism of the armed forces, and that express skepticism about the utility of war as an instrument of national policy.

My $0.02.