Should SF be a Joint Unit?

mark46th · 10-25-2011, 13:51

As I have said more than once, keep SF separate. I understand the money part and I want our guys to have the most modern equipment and training available but, when non-SF commanders get involved, gravity takes over and everything goes downhill.

BrokenSwitch · 10-25-2011, 14:10

Quote:

Recruit from all the Services.

As I understand the current situation (in my admittedly narrow, civilian-shaded perspective), there is already a mechanism in place for transferring between branches of the armed services. Rather than make SF "joint," would it be possible to allow personnel from the other armed forces to attend SFAS, and (for the ones who are Selected) subsequently transfer to the Army?

ZonieDiver · 10-25-2011, 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark46th

As I have said more than once, keep SF separate. I understand the money part and I want our guys to have the most modern equipment and training available but, when non-SF commanders get involved, gravity takes over and everything goes downhill.

I'm with you, Brother! Keep SF separate, and US Army only.

Do all the 18x, Blue to Green, or Chartreuse to Green you want. Going Joint wouldn't be the end of Special Forces, but it would IMHO be the end of 'Special'!

**Peregrino** · 10-25-2011, 16:08

Could easilly be the worst idea anyone has ever broached WRT the future of SF. There are a lot of things that go on behind the scenes where the Joint "powers that be" have acknowleged that they can't do what SF does; why make an active effort for "jointness" other than to ensure that future SF can't do those things either.

**Box** · 10-25-2011, 16:20

sailors, marines and airmen can already attend the SFQC and then go to an ODA...
...they just have to leave their current service and join the US Army first

A good topic for a blog or a discussion board, but it should certainly be kept far from a uniformed headquarters. We have enough bad ideas to juggle as it is.

...just my two cents.

goon175 · 10-25-2011, 18:09

With next to no exceptions, the only guys that can transfer over to the army and go 18x right now are E-4's and below. I think the SF community is missing out on a lot of quality prior service guys who left their respective branch as E-5 and E-6's.

bubba · 10-25-2011, 18:17

Selection is open to all male soldiers who are at or above the rank of E-4 and meet other basic requirements. They hand out engineer tape 10-12 times a year........ come on out and "do the best you can"

Surgicalcric · 10-25-2011, 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by goon175

With next to no exceptions, the only guys that can transfer over to the army and go 18x right now are E-4's and below. I think the SF community is missing out on a lot of quality prior service guys who left their respective branch as E-5 and E-6's.

If they want to be SF bad enough they will do what they must to get a shot at SFAS. Guys who cant enlist 18X, but want to be SF, enlist with another contract option all the time and wait for the opportunity to fill out a 4187 for SFAS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubba

Selection is open to all male soldiers who are at or above the rank of E-4 and meet other basic requirements. They hand out engineer tape 10-12 times a year........ come on out and "do the best you can"

Well said.

goon175 · 10-25-2011, 22:36

Thats the problem, right now the Army (USAAC) is trying to shove all the prior service applicants into the Reserves, so literally the only job for active duty open to the ranks E-1 through E-4 is 18x, and E-5 and above is closed to all jobs. They also will not allow administrative reductions of rank like they did in the past, so even if a guy got out as an E-5, but would rather be SF than keep his rank at enlistment, he can't get the reduction.

As a side note, this is only on the active duty side, I would imagine the NG SF groups would have much more leeway with what they can get in.

Dozer523 · 10-26-2011, 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by goon175

With next to no exceptions, the only guys that can transfer over to the army and go 18x right now are E-4's and below. I think the SF community is missing out on a lot of quality prior service guys who left their respective branch as E-5 and E-6's.

Maybe it was becuase I was in the Army, but it seemed to me Marines switch sides to the Army much more then the other direction. Then they (generally) won't let go of it -- keep talking 'bout the Corps; and "back when. . . "
And they generally are pains in the butt. They are the first ones to complain about how they aren't being treated right, with respect, like an adult, everything; anything . . . ad infinitum . . .
If it was so great what are they doing here? Or maybe they thought it would be easier here because they drank the USMC Kool-Aid?
We don't need experience if they are here looking for easy.
If they can't figure out that "this ain't the place for me" before they make some rank and earn some responsibility well, maybe they aren't that bright.

Baht Dog · 10-26-2011, 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy L-bach

sailors, marines and airmen can already attend the SFQC and then go to an ODA...
...they just have to leave their current service and join the US Army first

A good topic for a blog or a discussion board, but it should certainly be kept far from a uniformed headquarters. We have enough bad ideas to juggle as it is.

...just my two cents.

No kidding. The structure seems like it's overrun with "good idea fairies" all the time. I have to give credit to glebo for reminding me of that phrase.

Reference above to lowered standards:

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenberetTFS

SFQC Standards are being lowered in order to make the numbers?.......

Big Teddy

I dunno, man I hope not. But there have been historic examples of that. An example that stands out in my mind would be the swim test in the late 1990's. Everyone remember that? I distinctly remember when they lowered the standards for the swim test...We all know what the deal was behind all that. No excuses - PERIOD. Another example of the "good idea fairies" many of whom are civilians that that have PHD's that SWC hired to "advise" them.

To me it had the appearance of a "coddle program". Nobody coddled us when I went through. You either did it or you didn't. There were no special "swim classes" or, "we'll train them and work with them until they can pass it". I don't have a problem with providing extra help in academic portions of the training for those who might need it in a particular subject - to a point. But I don't think there should ever be a lowering of physical standards and prowess. Not for the Special Operations field. I, like others, spent my own time rucking, land nav, and doing all the things required to prepare myself for the SFQC and was physically ready to meet all challenges when I got there, as freakin' hard as it was. Damn good thing I spent extra time preparing!

I remember discussions in those days with some trying to convince me that "oh, we need to do this" but I never bought into it. I became jaded, cynical, bitter after that. It wasn't just that though, as we all know it has been a non-stop barrage and assault on many fronts against everything we ever stood for.

But hey, just one man's opinion.

**Pete** · 10-25-2011, 16:08

Replace SF with SEAL

Now how does the story read?

greenberetTFS · 10-25-2011, 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

Replace SF with SEAL

Now how does the story read?

Big Teddy