Originally Posted by Peteyboy
Personally I think they should just modernize the M60
They did.
We call it the M-240b
If the USMC wanted an improvement to the M-249 maybe they should have gone to the MK48 instead.
All they did was buy a new battle rifle that fires full auto.
They could have pulled a bunch of old M-16A1's out of mothballs and would have nearly the exact same capability.
If the claim against an M-16/M-4 on full auto is a poor gas system, then they should have just stuck with the SAW, or traded up to the MK48.
Frivolous expenditure of taxpayer money.
...just my two cents.
__________________ Opinions stated in this post are solely those of the author, and in no way reflect the opinions or policies of The Department of Defense, The United States Army, The Royal Canadian Mounted Police, The Screen Actors Guild, The Boy Scouts, The Good, The Bad, or The Ugly. These opinions are provided purely as overly sarcastic social commentary and are not meant to be used for mission planning or navigation.
"Make sure your own mask is secure before assisting others"
-Airplane Safety Briefing
Please elaborate on your PERSONAL experience with M60s.
I'm sorry QP's I didn't mean personally as in I had PERSONAL experience with the weapon it was just my personal opinon (in hind sight maybe not the best choice of wording) but everyone I have talked to seems to speak very highly of it anyway....I'm sorry if there were any mix up
I hung on to an M60D for five years and it is probably one of my favorite weapons. We had problems with a few of them and I actually broke an op rod in half on one shoot. Never figured that one out. However, once I found a good one, I wouldn't fly with anything but that particular weapon, and it fired like a dream.
With that being said, I never understood how it ramped up from 100 to 200 to 550 rounds per minute ie. sustained/rapid/cyclic. Can anyone help me with this? Being an ops guy, we mainly shot them then cleaned them, that's it. The major work was performed by our squadron AO's, so I never found out.
I cant comment with a straight face as to how heavy it gets. The farthest I had to hump it was the flightline to the helo.
__________________
Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.
Psalm 144:1
...With that being said, I never understood how it ramped up from 100 to 200 to 550 rounds per minute ie. sustained/rapid/cyclic. Can anyone help me with this? Being an ops guy, we mainly shot them then cleaned them, that's it. The major work was performed by our squadron AO's, so I never found out.
From FM 3.22-68
BLUF: You can fire your weapon as fast and as long as you want until (a) it blows up in your face, (b) the barrel melts and warps, (c) you run out of ammo, or (d) until Charlie overtakes your position...
Rate of Fire
5-29. Use sustained, rapid, and cyclic rates of fire with the machine gun (Table 5‑2). These rates enable leaders to control and sustain your fire and to help you avoid destroying your barrel. More than anything else, the size of the target and ammunition supply dictate your rate of fire.
Sustained Fire
5-30. This is the normal rate of fire for the gunner. Sustained fire for the M249 is 50 rounds per minute in bursts of 3 to 5 rounds, with 4 to 5 second intervals between bursts. The M60 and M240B are 100 rounds per minute in bursts of 6 to 9 rounds. The gunner pauses 4 to 5 seconds between bursts. The barrel should be changed after firing at sustained rate for 10 minutes.
Rapid Fire
5-31. For all three weapons, the barrel should be changed after firing at a rapid rate for 2 minutes. This allows an exceptionally high volume of fire, but for only a short period of time. Specifics for each weapon follow:
M249
5-32. Rapid fire for the M249 is 100 rounds per minute in bursts of 8 to 10 with an interval of 2 to 3 seconds between bursts.
M60 and M240B
5-33. For the M60 and M240B, rapid fire is 200 rounds per minute in bursts of 10 to 12 rounds again with an interval of 2 to 3 seconds between bursts.
Cyclic Fire
5-34. Cyclic fire uses the most ammunition that can be used in 1 minute. The cyclic rate of fire with the machine gun is achieved when the trigger is held to the rear and ammunition is fed into the weapon uninterrupted for one minute. Normal cyclic rate of fire for the M249 is 850 rounds, M60 is 550 rounds, and for the M240B it is 650 to 950 rounds. Always change the barrel after firing at cyclic rate for 1 minute. This procedure provides the highest volume of fire that the machine gun can fire, but this adversely affects the machine gun, and should only be fired in combat under emergency purposes only.
Sustained Rate of Fire Application:
This is the gunner's normal rate of fire.
Rate:
· M249 50 rounds per minute,
in 3- to 5-round bursts.
· M60, M240B 100 rounds per minute,
in 6‑ to 9-round bursts.
Maintenance:
Gunner pauses for 4 to 5 seconds between bursts.
Barrel:
Gunner changes barrel after 10 minutes sustained rate.
Rapid Rate of Fire Application:
This rate of fire works best when the gunner is trying to establish fire superiority.
Rate:
100 rounds per minute M249 in bursts of 6 to 8 rounds
200 rounds per minute M240 or M60 in bursts of 10 to 12 rounds
Maintenance:
Pause for 2 to 3 seconds between bursts.
Barrel:
Change after firing 2 minutes at rapid rate.
Advantage:
Exceptionally high volume of fire.
Disadvantages:
Feasible only for short periods of time
Requires frequent barrel changes.
Cyclic Rate of Fire Application:
This rate of fire should only be used in combat emergencies.
Method:
Hold trigger to the rear; feed ammunition uninterrupted for 1 minute.
Normal Rate:
· M249
850 rounds per minute.
· M60
550 rounds per minute.
· M240B
650 to 950 rounds per minute.
Advantage:
Places the most possible rounds on the enemy in one minute.
Disadvantage:
Damaging to barrel.
Barrel:
Change after firing 1 minute at cyclic rate.
Table 5‑2. Rates of fire.
__________________
The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal. Aristotle
It is not inequality which is the real misfortune, it is dependence. Voltaire
But actually, I was hoping for HOW it accomplishes the automatic change in rates. You can hear the weapon kick into the higher rate almost as if its changing gears. I'm not sure if its a heat thing, lever thing, or psychic thing (ie. give me more lead now damnit!).
__________________
Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.
Psalm 144:1
I'm sorry QP's I didn't mean personally as in I had PERSONAL experience with the weapon it was just my personal opinon (in hind sight maybe not the best choice of wording) but everyone I have talked to seems to speak very highly of it anyway....I'm sorry if there were any mix up
You missed the point.
The point is, that without personal experience your comments on this subject are nothing more than noise and add nothing to the discussion.
__________________ The Main Thing is to keep the Main Thing the Main Thing
A number of years back our team had a debate on whether or not SAWs were needed for a series of air assaults that we were doing. One set of guys wanted the 249's (2 for a 10 man ODA), and the other felt that everyone was accurate enough with their M4s to make it a moot point, at least in the terrain we were operating in. Luckily the 249 crowd won the argument on that one.
One operation saw a hot LZ with a downed team mate. The SAW gunners both went cyclic into suspected enemy postitions and it made a huge difference. Fire superiorty, not slow aimed fire, allowed guys to start maneuvering and eliminate the threat. Having to change mags every 30 rounds or so might not have made them as effective.
I think that some marines somewhere might regret this decision in the future, but thats just my opinion. YMMV.
But actually, I was hoping for HOW it accomplishes the automatic change in rates. You can hear the weapon kick into the higher rate almost as if its changing gears. I'm not sure if its a heat thing, lever thing, or psychic thing (ie. give me more lead now damnit!).
You are kidding, right?
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
Was with WPNS in USMC in the 90's (between times only paper targets). Carried the SAW and the M60 no 240's yet. The only thing i liked about saw was that it was lighter, but it jamed more. If i ever was in combat i would of wanted a belt fed (not counting the M2) 30 cal gun. Whats the point of a 30 rnd 22 cal mg?
But actually, I was hoping for HOW it accomplishes the automatic change in rates. You can hear the weapon kick into the higher rate almost as if its changing gears. I'm not sure if its a heat thing, lever thing, or psychic thing (ie. give me more lead now damnit!).
Quote:
Reponded to by The Reaper:
You are kidding, right?
TR,
I do not think that he is kidding? I think that he is really serious!
Black Knight,
Go back to BKKMAN's very informative post and reread it. Pay particular attention to the "Maintenance" portion for both the "Sustained and Rapid Rate of Fire" sections and to "Method" under "Cyclic Rate of Fire".
I will even offer you a hint. The M60 does not automatically change its rate of fire. Got it figured out now?
Thomas
__________________
"Political correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous, mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - Unknown author, but borrowed from a friend
"Liberals claim to be open to hearing other peoples' views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." - William F. Buckley, Jr.
But actually, I was hoping for HOW it accomplishes the automatic change in rates. You can hear the weapon kick into the higher rate almost as if its changing gears. I'm not sure if its a heat thing, lever thing, or psychic thing (ie. give me more lead now damnit!).
Hmmmmmmmm...not exactly the response I expected, or maybe it should have been...
See the picture attached labeled "The Magic of Automatic Fire" for a basic understanding of firing the weapon at different rates...
As to why your particular weapon sometimes fired fast and sometimes not, let's take a look at the TM:
Sluggish Operation
Causes: Friction from dirt, carbon, burrs or lack of lubrication.
Corrective Action: Clean and lubricate...
YM (and rate of fire) MV
__________________
The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal. Aristotle
It is not inequality which is the real misfortune, it is dependence. Voltaire
What is wrong with the Mk 48? Fires 7.62 in a friendly operating system that most joes could figure out quickly. Plus it is already being used by units, could have made appropriations easier.
__________________
"Whether you think that you can, or that you can't, you are usually right."
- Henry Ford
The M-60s I used when I was a younger man had manual transmissions...
...the ones with the automatic transmission must have been nice.
__________________ Opinions stated in this post are solely those of the author, and in no way reflect the opinions or policies of The Department of Defense, The United States Army, The Royal Canadian Mounted Police, The Screen Actors Guild, The Boy Scouts, The Good, The Bad, or The Ugly. These opinions are provided purely as overly sarcastic social commentary and are not meant to be used for mission planning or navigation.
"Make sure your own mask is secure before assisting others"
-Airplane Safety Briefing
I think they are making a big mistake going with HK it will bite them in the ass later with the high cost of replacement parts, and the contracting with HK (Germans)... The Marines will not be able to deviate from the contract once signed. (nice guns poor customer relations) this is my opinion of course I expect flames from the HK lovers.
If they wanted lighter they should have just gotten a belt feed conversion for the
M16
Hmmmmmmmm...not exactly the response I expected, or maybe it should have been...
Linear Mode
