Robed Muslim Clerics Kicked Off Flight

[hoot72]

Originally Posted by Aloysius

T
One question is: Why all of a sudden, after all this time, did this radical form of Islam suddenly arise? And how to we exterminate radical Islam?

Because kicking guys off a plane for wearing robes is a poor start to be sure.

It didn't just suddenly arise. It's been around even before I was born. It's blatantly more "obvious" thanks to the internet, CNN and other news outlets. Graphic photos and all.

In fact, radical islam never really "went away" if you back track all the way back in time to the time of the crusades and the fall of Jerusalem.

I can name a host of norms in Islam and amongst muslims in modern day pakistan that was barbaric and inhumane back in the 1500-1900's....that they conducted on non-muslims and those who refused to convert...

Its all in writing.

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by hoot72

It didn't just suddenly arise. It's been around even before I was born. It's blatantly more "obvious" thanks to the internet, CNN and other news outlets. Graphic photos and all.

In fact, radical Islam never really "went away" if you back track all the way back in time to the time of the crusades and the fall of Jerusalem.

I can name a host of norms in Islam and amongst muslims in modern day pakistan that was barbaric and inhumane back in the 1500-1900's....that they conducted on non-muslims and those who refused to convert...

Its all in writing.

Does the fact that radical Muslims haven't been able to get it done after five plus centuries tell us anything about the sustainability of their ideas?

Do we really want GWOT to be a conflict centering around the religious beliefs of the masses?

Is it prudent to define other human beings by one characteristic alone be it religion, nationality, profession, political practices, social standing, ideology, gender, or sexual preference?

[hoot72]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

Does the fact that radical Muslims haven't been able to get it done after five plus centuries tell us anything about the sustainability of their ideas? Epic Failure on their part?

Do we really want GWOT to be a conflict centering around the religious beliefs of the masses? No.

Is it prudent to define other human beings by one characteristic alone be it religion, nationality, profession, political practices, social standing, ideology, gender, or sexual preference?

No but we do it anyways in every day life.

In bold above Sigaba.

[ruth nasrullah]

Originally Posted by PRB

Yes, actually your inane arguments are.
Once again, for the reading impaired, it is not an interpretation of the Quran it is face value..surah's 4:89...47:4...2:217..4:71-104...8:24-36..8:39-65...8:67...
8:59-60...5:51...etc.
It does not need INTERPRETATION...it is spelled out.

Sir, here are verses 4:88-91 of the Qur'an in English translation:

88 Why should ye be divided into two parties about the Hypocrites? Allah hath upset them for their (evil) deeds. Would ye guide those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way.
89 They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-
90 Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them).
91 Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: Every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto: if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them: In their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them.

(Abdullah Yusuf Ali translation)

[ruth nasrullah]

Originally Posted by Pete

We all could banter words back and forth with you all day but lets cut to the bottom line.

Statistically speaking - you stand a better chance of becoming a suicide bomber than anyone else here.

The question then becomes "Why is that?"

Answer than and you can start answering why Islam is the problem.

I understand what you're saying, and if you predict a trend based on the single characteristic of religion, then I may well be most likely of all the commenters here to commit suicide terrorism. However, if you look at demographics and motivation for suicide bombing, the probability plummets.

After reading Robert Pape's book "Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism" I looked at the site of his Chicago Project on Security and Terrorism . If you search the database he has collected on suicide terrorism over the last 30 years you will see that I am the wrong gender, wrong age and living in the wrong country to be a good bet to blow myself up. I live in a prosperous country where I have absolute freedom to speak my mind, practice my religion, participate in the political process, eat too much and sleep all night. I am not living through a war. No one has invaded or occupied my country. I have no motivation to become a suicide bomber.

The reward of martyrdom is not one I will receive. Sir, again - I understand what you're saying but it's inaccurate. I will have to find another way to jannah.

[bluebb]

I don't care what race, relgion, creed, or whatever you are. If you come here and attack us, kill our friends and family, you will pay the price. You can try to understand evil all you want but in the end good people just need to go forth and stamp it out. I know someone will throw some moral equavalency BS into my statement but if you can't recognize evil then I can't explain it to you.

Blue(thats Bluebb)

[Warrior-Mentor]

Originally Posted by bluebb

I don't care what race, relgion, creed, or whatever you are. If you come here and attack us, kill our friends and family, you will pay the price. You can try to understand evil all you want but in the end good people just need to go forth and stamp it out. I know someone will throw some moral equavalency BS into my statement but if you can't recognize evil then I can't explain it to you.

Blue(thats Bluebb)

Well said Bluebb

[Dusty]

Aloysius: "One question is: Why all of a sudden, after all this time, did this radical form of Islam suddenly arise? And how to we exterminate radical Islam?
"


Are you being facetious, ignorant or what?

You call A.D. 643 recent?

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by Aloysius

Agreed. I get mushy when I drink vodka. Or so my wife tells me.

Did she also tell you that drinking it by the gallon impedes rational thought?

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by bluebb

I don't care what race, relgion, creed, or whatever you are. If you come here and attack us, kill our friends and family, you will pay the price. You can try to understand evil all you want but in the end good people just need to go forth and stamp it out. I know someone will throw some moral equavalency BS into my statement but if you can't recognize evil then I can't explain it to you.

Blue(thats Bluebb)

[SF-TX]

Originally Posted by ruth nasrullah

No one has invaded or occupied my country. I have no motivation to become a suicide bomber.

The reward of martyrdom is not one I will receive. Sir, again - I understand what you're saying but it's inaccurate. I will have to find another way to jannah.

Ruth,

Who are the occupiers and the occupied? Are Shia suicide bombers justified in attacking Sunnis, or vice versa? What about the Ahmadiyya? Can they be rightly attacked by both Sunnis and Shias? What is the reward for martyrdom? Who do you have to kill to receive this reward? Since you say you 'will have to find another way', you agree that killing kufirs is a path to Islam's view of paradise? What will be your 'other' way?

[1stindoor]

Originally Posted by SF-TX

Ruth,
Since you say you 'will have to find another way', you agree that killing kufirs is a path to Islam's view of paradise? What will be your 'other' way?

Saw that one coming from the cheap seats...in the words of the gunner onboard the chopper, "It's easy...you just don't lead 'em as much."

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by Aloysius

I was suggesting that in all of our history as a nation the United States has not had to deal with radical Islamic terrorists until right around the late 60's. Radical Islamic terrorism has not been on our radar until then. I asked: Why is that? Why did Radical Islamic terrorism become such a force around this time?

You might wanna check their rule book. The Q'uran. There are quotes posted which explain why they want to kill or convert anybody who doesn't accept join their faith.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Aloysius

I was suggesting that in all of our history as a nation the United States has not had to deal with radical Islamic terrorists until right around the late 60's. Radical Islamic terrorism has not been on our radar until then. I asked: Why is that? Why did Radical Islamic terrorism become such a force around this time?

The modern times could start around the late 60's after that decade's war with Israel - or the 1973 one - could go back to 1948 - but really starts with Mustafa Kemal Atatürk and the post WW I period.

While he was for western ways he did give rise to the modern thought of an Arab state. This gave rise to organizations like the MB who operated outside the established government. They chaffed under colonial rule and thought with independence things would be different. But for most Arab states the whip of the colonial master was replaced by that of the dictator.

We are seeing the fruit of that through North Africa today.

But over the last 90 years the "political" movement has slowly been replaced with Islam.

The above is an overly broad generalization of the goings on in a number of areas with a number of different Colonial masters. Italy got right with that program after WW I.

[PRB]

Ruth,
5:51...Take not the Jews and Christians as Auliya (friends, protectors, helpers) They are but Auliya of each other. And if any amongst you takes them (as auliya), then surley he is one of them ((a Kafer, Infidel)) The N Quran

8:59-60
Let not the Unbelievers think that they can get the better (of the Godly): They will never fristrate them.Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) enemies of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom you may not know, but whom Allah knows. Ali Translation

The 8:59 is a critical piece....if it was written to 'strengthen' yourself against them only... the argument could be made that this was the internal Jihad...however...Muhammed/Allah made this very specific that war for the sake of Islam alone is in the way of Allah....and that non believers are 'enemies'.
I had a Mullah in Astan that I would talk to for hours about Islam, he was a LTC in the 205th Corps.
We discussed this specifically and he pointed out that the term "Steeds of War" refered to mobile aggressive warfare, taking the initiative, attacking and not just defending Islam against enemies...


which leads to Surah 8:39

And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief or belief in anything but Islam) and the religion will all be for Allah alone (in the whole world). But if they cease (worshipping other religions), then certainly, Allah is All-seer of what they do. The N Quran

4:95
Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth ((i.e.Saudi Arabs)) and their lives above those who sit (at home). Unto each, Allah has promised good (paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight above those who sit by a huge reward.

When you couple the surah....the greatest reward is for fighting for Islam, the highest levels of Paradise are for shaheed (those that die in the way of Allah)
Allah requires that all religions be subdued and Isalm covers the world etc. you have what we experience today.