Osama Bin Laden dead

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by Aloysius

Political opponents pick on stupid shit all the time, I was just pointing out this is one of those times.

As was I.

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by Broadsword2004

There was the chance that if it went down very badly, he'd take a major hit politically. Maybe he was just rolling the dice for possible political gain, but I mean he could have kept the whole thing secret and decided not to go after bin Laden too.

Since he rolled the dice and won, some may say, "Yeah, he just did this for political points. He just thinks about himelf."

OTOH, if he had decided not to get bin Laden, and this had come out later, then he'd have gotten the same criticism, that he was just being a politician and thinking about himself instead of the national security.



How would they fake something like this?

Rolled what dice? What was the other choice?

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by Broadsword2004

How would they fake something like this?

[DeltaGolf]

Originally Posted by Dusty

Then again, he might have done it to try and save his ass in the polls. A la the birth certificate.

Don't get all teary-eyed about this shit, dude. It ain't like he pulled the fucking trigger any more than he did on those three pirates.

You're talking about the guy who promised to close Gitmo as a tenet for election. If it weren't for Gitmo, he wouldn't have even got a chance to go all High Noon on bin Laden.

And, that's providing the incident wasn't staged...

With respect, Dusty,

"Teary eyed"? If you knew me or my political views you'd know how laughable that comment is. Since you don't know me, all I can do is assure you that we are on the same page regarding Obama's many deficiencies.

You know better than I, how many things could have gone wrong and how risky this mission was. Although the physical risks were entirely born by the troops, had this mission failed, Obama would have been crucified by Republicans and Dems. Consider: 31 years later, Operation Eagle Claw is still one of defining failures of the Carter Administration. The Battle of Mogadishu gave the Clinton Administration a huge black eye.

Fortunately, the mission went spectacularly well. You are correct, closing Gitmo was one of Obama's major campaign points. However, as with many of his promises, he chose not to follow through, and Gitmo has remained open. I don't know what role, if any, this played in producing intel about Bin Laden's location, but it's beside the point. You are also correct that Obama didn't pull the trigger. He is POTUS -- executing special ops isn't part of his job description. He either gives or denies the go ahead.

In this one instance, he made the right call. He showed leadership. He acted Presidential. Will I vote for him in 2012? NO.

[DeltaGolf]

Originally Posted by Dusty

Rolled what dice? What was the other choice?

He could have called off the attack and waited for more evidence or a better opportunity or any other excuse.

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by DeltaGolf

He could have called off the attack and waited for more evidence or a better opportunity or any other excuse.

You mean wait for the poll numbers to get below 30?

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by DeltaGolf

You know better than I, how many things could have gone wrong and how risky this mission was. Although the physical risks were entirely born by the troops, had this mission failed, Obama would have been crucified by Republicans and Dems.

That's what smells fishy about it.

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by Paslode

Classic!

[DeltaGolf]

Originally Posted by Dusty

That's what smells fishy about it.

You've lost me. Are you saying it smells fishy because it succeeded, or it's fishy that he would have given the order knowing the potential political consequences of failure? Maybe some other reason?

[Torleif]

Never mind..

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by DeltaGolf

With respect, Dusty,

"Teary eyed"? If you knew me or my political views you'd know how laughable that comment is. Since you don't know me, all I can do is assure you that we are on the same page regarding Obama's many deficiencies.

You know better than I, how many things could have gone wrong and how risky this mission was. Although the physical risks were entirely born by the troops, had this mission failed, Obama would have been crucified by Republicans and Dems. Consider: 31 years later, Operation Eagle Claw is still one of defining failures of the Carter Administration. The Battle of Mogadishu gave the Clinton Administration a huge black eye.

Fortunately, the mission went spectacularly well. You are correct, closing Gitmo was one of Obama's major campaign points. However, as with many of his promises, he chose not to follow through, and Gitmo has remained open. I don't know what role, if any, this played in producing intel about Bin Laden's location, but it's beside the point. You are also correct that Obama didn't pull the trigger. He is POTUS -- executing special ops isn't part of his job description. He either gives or denies the go ahead.

In this one instance, he made the right call. He showed leadership. He acted Presidential. Will I vote for him in 2012? NO.

DeltaGolf, your bio says you're a educated man and a military buff.....
Before I say this know that I would fight beside my Brother SEALS to the death, anyplace anywhere anytime.

That said your analogy of Operation Eagle Claw and the Battle of Mogadishu as compared to this operation is ludicrous.

This was a small DA operation, risk factor for the good guys, was very low. Chances for success very high if the old terrorist was indeed there.

Spare me your military analogies.

I am sure the SEALS killed something, just who I'd like to know.
Team Sergeant

[andwerise]

Originally Posted by 69harley

I doubt they flew in any variant of the -hawk. News reports 25 pax on two birds, they blew one in place, 25 pax plus one left on the remaining bird. could not have been a -60.

NY Times has a photo of part of the wreckage. Looks like the tali of a 60 to me. The same article describes the mission as having 4 helos. I have seen the number of SEALS at 24, and the NY Times article says 12 SEALS were dropped into the compound.

Also hearing that one of the helos did a soft landing in the compound either due to a mechanical or lift issue. Either way, the NY Times piece says 12 were dropped in, the primary attack force was composed of 2 Helos, with 2 more on standby in case shit hit the fan. One of those came in when one of the primary helos went down to retrieve the crew and SEALS of the downed chopper.

So with a little filling in of the gaps in info, it sounds to me like the op involved 4 helos with 24 SEALS. 2 entered Pakistan, while 2 hung back, presumably in A'Stan, as a backup in case the primary force encountered resistance or other issues. When one of the helos went down, one of the backup choppers came in to retrieve the personnel and continued out of country.

That puts 6 SEALS per chopper on the outset of the mission, and after losing a helo, 18 SEALS between 2 choppers plus the corpse of one UBL. Seems like a load well within the capability and range of a UH60, and the tail wreckage at the compound is assuredly not from a 47.

I am sure it is possible it was an air force bird, but my money is on it being a 60. Tho we all know where it would be from, I certainly wont play with OPSEC on here

Heres the NY times article

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/wo...agewanted=1&hp

And the photo of the wreckage

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/20...B-INTEL-2.html

EDIT: Not presuming to know any of that for fact. Just trying to read between the lines.

[andwerise]

ALthough these seem to me to look like a stockier, bigger bird. Maybe something from the AF

http://www.time.com/time/photogaller...271659,00.html

[Utah Bob]

Well it's after 5 I think I'll go mix a Bin Laden before supper.

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by DevilSide

Why would he stage it?

Just off the top of me head....Wellll for starters, spun, dug up, thawed out, staged or a combination of some, all or none....My poll numbers are in the tank, David Koresh is dead, Gas is close to $4 per gallon, a roll of toilet paper is beginning to look like a legitimate form of currency, May Day Celebration, in May my SEIU buddy Stephen Lerner plans to take on JP Morgan Chase this month, I need some MO-mentum for my Campaign 2012 Road to Hell and I am a narcissist.

But more important fact or fiction, contrived or not it this is quite a distraction/diversion from reality.....What else happened today in the world? How has the news cycle been the last 2 days? What version of the OBL Takedown are we at now? What were most people talking about today OBL or dancing with the Stars?

Will this end terrorism and TSA pat downs?