Tattoo on an 18A wannabe...

**Pete** · 04-29-2011, 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDG

Why do you think this? Do you mean it will be out of style in general, or specifically in Special Forces? I ask this as a genuine question, not a challenge to your opinion.

Door kickers can be trained in a lot less time than two years.

CDG · 04-29-2011, 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

Door kickers can be trained in a lot less time than two years.

Do you feel that is true for training guys to kick doors with the same ability as a DA-specific unit? For example, would you feel better with a certain famous Army CT Unit kicking down doors in search of a HVT, or a platoon of 19 year olds that are a year into the Army? Do you feel the skill level at door-kicking maintained by SOF is a crucial skill that does take two years or more of training and experience? Again, asking questions, not making challenges or somehow implying that you are wrong.

**Pete** · 04-29-2011, 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDG

.......... Again, asking questions, not making challenges or somehow implying that you are wrong.

Again, if all you want to do is kick doors it don't take two years of training.

Language? All you need to speak is 5.56, 9mm and have a working knowledge of 7.62.

Surgicalcric · 04-29-2011, 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDG

Do you feel that is true for training guys to kick doors with the same ability as a DA-specific unit? For example, would you feel better with a certain famous Army CT Unit kicking down doors in search of a HVT, or a platoon of 19 year olds that are a year into the Army? Do you feel the skill level at door-kicking maintained by SOF is a crucial skill that does take two years or more of training and experience? Again, asking questions, not making challenges or somehow implying that you are wrong.

SF is getting back to its roots is what Peregrino was getting at. Door kicking, as seen in 4:00 youtube clips, isn't it.

Dont get us wrong, door kicking has its place but there are specific units which focus on that set of skills. And it isn't those skills which sets SF apart from the other Special Operations Forces (Ranger Regiment, SEALs, certain other DA centric units, etc.)

As for skill levels, dont be obtuse. Of course there is no comparison in the two you mention. However, there are selection processes out there for guys whose focus and drive is to kick doors; SFAS isnt it.

If you still need clarification feel free to use the search button. The differences in SOF and SF have been discussed here a time or twenty.

Crip

CDG · 04-29-2011, 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surgicalcric

SF is getting back to its roots is what Peregrino was getting at. Door kicking, as seen in 4:00 youtube clips, isn't it.

Dont get us wrong, door kicking has its place but there are specific units which focus on that set of skills. And it isn't those skills which sets SF apart from the other Special Operations Forces (Ranger Regiment, SEALs, certain other DA centric units, etc.)

As for skill levels, dont be obtuse. Of course there is no comparison in the two you mention. However, there are selection processes out there for guys whose focus and drive is to kick doors; SFAS isnt it.

If you still need clarification feel free to use the search button. The differences in SOF and SF have been discussed here a time or twenty.

Crip

Understood. Apologies for the poor analogy. You're right (obviously), it was a dumbass move on my part to use those two examples. Thank you to yourself and Pete for the information.

**Pete** · 04-29-2011, 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDG

Understood. Apologies for the poor analogy. You're right (obviously), it was a dumbass move on my part to use those two examples. Thank you to yourself and Pete for the information.

Back when I was the Sr Engineer on a Team I would get a new Jr Engineer every now and again. The first thing I would ask him was "Are you a Demo Man or an Engineer?" - "I'm a Demo Man. Why?" - "Well, an Engineer can do everything a Demo Man can plus a whole lot more. I don't need a Demo Man, but I can use an Engineer."

CDG · 04-29-2011, 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

Back when I was the Sr Engineer on a Team I would get a new Jr Engineer every now and again. The first thing I would ask him was "Are you a Demo Man or an Engineer?" - "I'm a Demo Man. Why?" - "Well, an Engineer can do everything a Demo Man can plus a whole lot more. I don't need a Demo Man, but I can use an Engineer."

Point taken. Yet another example of why I want to be SF.

Richard · 04-30-2011, 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

Back when I was the Sr Engineer on a Team I would get a new Jr Engineer every now and again. The first thing I would ask him was "Are you a Demo Man or an Engineer?" - "I'm a Demo Man. Why?" - "Well, an Engineer can do everything a Demo Man can plus a whole lot more. I don't need a Demo Man, but I can use an Engineer."

Exactly. Back when (pre-H TO&E circa 1970), the JrEngr slot was labeled Demo Specialist - they wore specialist rank (e.g., SP5 vs SGT) and were authorized demolition pay because of the way they were slotted. It was changed to reflect the thinking Pete articulated in his post.

And so it goes...

Richard

MTN Medic · 04-30-2011, 16:55

Roughly 50% of the guys on my team have tattoos. This seems fairly consistent group-wide. Will things change? Definitely. Group have changed in just the last coupe years; no telling where we'll be in 10.

I could care less if a guy does have a tattoo but if it is military affiliated, you have to ask yourself what would happen if you were doing some secret squirrel stuff and got caught. Think not only what would happen to you, but also your teammates.

Are not going to be non-selected over it? Extremely unlikely.

MtnGoat · 03-28-2012, 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

Back when I was the Sr Engineer on a Team I would get a new Jr Engineer every now and again. The first thing I would ask him was "Are you a Demo Man or an Engineer?" - "I'm a Demo Man. Why?" - "Well, an Engineer can do everything a Demo Man can plus a whole lot more. I don't need a Demo Man, but I can use an Engineer."

Great statement Pete!

MtnGoat · 03-28-2012, 18:00

Ok.. I'm on ODA right now and myself, Medic & my Tm SGt are the only ones not to have Tats. My CPT got selected with a arm band and now has his upper sleeves done on both arms. My Sr "Demo man"

came to the team with his torso 80% covered & he has arm sleeves. My Bravo's, both have couple body tats & full sleeves that don't show while in ACU or MC. Both got selected with their tats. Jr Eng has two tats. Sr Commo has a few.

I never got a tattoo because of my father, who is a WWII vet and he has a globe and eagle on his arm and anchor on his left thigh. Once he was in his fifties you cannot tell what they were. I understand that the ink back then and the techniques are nothing they are today.

Around here at Fort Bragg there are 2 tatoo shops own by SF guys.

Like I have told guys before and what Peregrino is saying; if you want to do something special, or go work for other people and other special places. DO NOT GET A TATTOO. YOUR LIFE, THE PEOPLE THAT YOU WORK WITH AND FOR; WILL ALL BE MARK JUST LIKE YOUR BODY IS. ONCE AGAIN, DO NOT GET A TATTOO.

The new thing in SF is tattoos.. SF is a reflection of the Army and that's where we come from. Tatoos has gotten a lot more acceptable in the Army.

05-24-2011, 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDG

....a platoon of 19 year olds that are a year into the Army?

As for door-kicking, a platoon of 19 years did a very good job in France, Italy and Germany with MIA1's, leather boots and battle worn uniforms.

Did not see it coming, but situational awareness and a salty platoon sergeant with the understanding that movement to contact is in direct proportion to terrain be it, open fields or living rooms in country cottages or small euro apartments.