Nearly 1 in 4 fails military exam

[SouthernDZ]

I wondered if this report denoting the shrinking pool of qualified applicants for military service coming out on the tail of the Dream Act (citizenship for military service) is just a coincidence?

Sure, I'm just paranoid......

[James D]

You have to remember the ASVAB scores are based on percentiles, at least the AFQT which is acknowledged in the article. This means that at least 30% of everyone who takes the exam will fail if a 31 is passing. It isn't surprising then that slightly under 25% of students are failing. What would help clarify is the number of students taking the ASVAB per year versus adults out of the school system taking the ASVAB. As well, how many students take the exam out of the total national student population. This would present a clearer picture of how education is impacting the failure rate.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by SouthernDZ

I wondered if this report denoting the shrinking pool of qualified applicants for military service coming out on the tail of the Dream Act (citizenship for military service) is just a coincidence?

Sure, I'm just paranoid......

When I was drafted, there were non-citizens living in the US on work and student visas being drafted with us. My bunkmate (he had the upper, I had the lower) in AIT at FLW was a Korean studying at UCLA when he was drafted.

Richard

[Jgood]

I agree 100%

My family and I just moved off post into the local public school system, we were concerned about the low test scores of the district but decided if we felt our kids education was suffering we would just step-up our involvement even more than usual. All too often the education of our kids in this nation is just left to an overloaded system.

Originally Posted by ZonieDiver

While much of my daughters' formative education came in parochial school, they also spent copious amounts of time in public schools in the various places we lived. I'll stack them up against any home-schooled kid any day.

For me, the major advantage that home-schooled kids have is that of "parental involvement"! In the case of home schooling, that parental involvement is monumental. Having taught in public education since 1975 (with time off on occasion for good behavior), I can attest that in most cases, if there is a strong level of parental involvement, there is a strong chance for student success (however one might interpret that). This success is not connected with race, ethnicity, income level, or educational trappings.

It comes from their parents inculcating in them the idea of "wanna"! You've "gotta wanna"! If you wanna, you will.

[PSM]

My wife and I are about to move to the Ft. Huachuca area and my wife, who has a teaching credential, has been keeping tabs on the local job market. She found a listing for a teacher on the Fort to teach GED classes. I thought you had to be an HS graduate or have a GED before enlisting. Ft. H. is not a Basic Training facility.

Pat

[Richard]

Originally Posted by PSM

My wife and I are about to move to the Ft. Huachuca area and my wife, who has a teaching credential, has been keeping tabs on the local job market. She found a listing for a teacher on the Fort to teach GED classes. I thought you had to be an HS graduate or have a GED before enlisting. Ft. H. is not a Basic Training facility.

Pat

Dependents.

Richard

[Richard]

Originally Posted by SouthernDZ

The sad state of our education system.

Some things to consider.

Richard

Is a Good Teacher Worth $400,000?
Atlantic, 21 Dec 2010

Over the course of a school year, a good teacher produces $400,000 more in future earnings for a class of 20 students than an average teacher. What's more, replacing the worst-performing five to eight percent of teachers with average teachers could catapult the U.S. to near the top of international math and science rankings, padding GDP by $100 trillion and generating returns that dwarf "the discussions of U.S. economic stimulus packages related to the 2008 recession ($1 trillion)."

These are the findings of a National Bureau of Economic Research study by Stanford's Eric Hanushek, which investigates the interplay between teacher effectiveness and the economic impact of higher student achievement, specifically in terms of test scores.

Hanushek notes that one challenge his paper doesn't tackle is how to link pay to effectiveness; instead, the research "simply suggests that the economically appropriate rewards for particularly effective teachers in the context of a performance pay plan could be very large."

How are commentators receiving the findings?

There Are Two Ways to Interpret This Data, argues Adam Ozimek at Modeled Behavior. Studies like this show that teachers are valuable and that we should raise wages to attract better talent. But:

If good teachers are very valuable, then bad teachers are very costly. This means we should be willing to pay more for good teachers, but it also increases the benefit of getting rid of bad teachers and ensuring we have a system that can do that. After all, every dollar spent on a bad teacher has the high opportunity cost of good teachers. Findings like this tell us that we should place even less relative value on teacher well-being for it’s own sake (which is separate from teacher well-being to the extent that it improves outcomes) when considering reforms. I think this is something that some progressives aren’t as happy to hear, especially with regard to using the teaching profession as a middle class jobs program.

Shrinking Class Sizes Has Diluted Teacher Talent, asserts Reihan Salam at National Review:

Had we stayed at the teacher-student ratios of the 1970s, we'd have 2.2 million public school teachers rather than 3.2 million. Know what else happened over the last 40 years? Labor market discrimination against women and African Americans declined, giving talented female and African American workers who had once gravitated to the teaching profession other options. Allowing effective teachers to take on larger classes in exchange for more pay could have a powerful positive effect.

We Should Put The Findings In Context of Other Research, says Catherine Rampell at The New York Times. She mentions a recent study claiming that a strong kindergarten teacher is worth $320,000 a year based on the additional earnings that a class of students can expect to earn during the course of their careers.

Benefits of Above-Average Education Will Only Increase, states Derek Thompson at The Atlantic. In this "stratified, winner-takes-almost-all economy," he explains, "the middle class has hollowed out and earnings among the college-educated far outstrip high school graduates." Thompson also compares Hanushek's research to a 2009 McKinsey finding that if the American education system performed at the level of South Korea, the US economy would improve by a sixth of GDP, or more than $2 trillion.

http://atlanticwire.theatlantic.com/...th-400000-6289

[Crue]

I saw the test scores for every kid that wanted to join the Marines in NJ for about 3 years. My .02 cents:

-We would have each Marine set 3 appointments a day because 1 would be morally DQ, 1 would not pass the pre ASVAB ( 30 min test given in the office to let you know if you were wasting your time), and 1 would turn into an interview. From there it would take 3 interviews to turn into a working applicant because 1 would be found medically disqualified, 1 would not pass the ASVAB, and 1 would be good to go. From there it would take 3 of these guys to make a Marine because 2 would never show up for their boot camp date/back out before or would fail out of boot camp. Each Recruiter had their own specific 90 day data but on average most Recruiters could expect number like this.

-Home school kids scored extremely well.
-Charter school kids scored pretty well.
-Kids from inner city schools that could score well on the ASVAB had no interest in joining the military. Kids that wanted to join couldn't pass the ASVAB.
-A lot of kids that fail will retake the ASVAB every 30 days they are eligible for up to three times ( does the study take this into account I wonder?)
-Recruiters will bring a van full of kids at the end of the month to take the ASVAB that they know probably won't pass (Rock Run) in the hopes one of them gets lucky.
-Green card holders from anywhere besides Latin America will usually score high enough on the math portions to just barely pass the whole test even know they bomb the English section ( not a slight on LA just what I remember).
-I investigated 2 cases of recruiters having PVTs home on leave take the ASVAB for other kids. There are many more that don't get caught.
-The most successful Recruiters will have one of their smarter Recruits/Poolees lead a study group.
-I looked up some of my best Marines from my time in an Infantry Bn and they definitely were not the ones with the highest QTs.

[PSM]

Originally Posted by Richard

Dependents.

Richard

I thought of that, but they go to school in town, I believe, and there is a community college there. (Maybe those MI guys are getting a refresher course. ) She'd be happy to take the job, though.

Pat

[Richard]

Pat,

Dependents...as in wives/husbands.

Richard

[PSM]

Originally Posted by Richard

Pat,

Dependents...as in wives/husbands.

Richard

D'oh! That I had not considered. Gracias, mi amigo.

Pat

[Wolf07]

I attended a small private school through the 8th grade. It made all the difference when I went to a public school, and set the groundwork for future success. I thought the ASVAB was very easy. Frankly, if you don't have the discipline to prepare or do your homework, then I have difficulty seeing how you will be an asset rather than a burden.


My .02, YMMV

[mark46th]

So much for that new cannon fodder MOS...