I did not know Ebonics was a language...let alone a form of English

[ZonieDiver]

Originally Posted by MasterOfMyFate

I think they are looking for personnel who can manage to do something along the lines of THIS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6H0i1RAdHk

That was great! It took me back to my days teaching at Job Corps, and the lunchtime 'freestylin' that took place outside the 'canteen' - though they never ended as this one.

I was constantly amazed at the ability of most of my students to switch from 'street' to 'academic' at the drop of a hat (brand new, tags still attached, cocked to the side a bit)! I did have to remind some that 'rapper' might not be a good 'additional skills or training' on your resume when applying for most jobs, nor having an email address such as: pimpdaddy69.

[echoes]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

Just when was America a "melting pot"? Did all Americans have the opportunity to blend in?

Sigaba,

Respectfully, the entitlement mind-set has always been a slippery subject.

After reading your thoughts, and weighing them with what I have been taught by those in the past, (who are far smarter than me,) my answer is yes!

A soceity is made up of people who start in different economic and psychologic tiers.

How they succeed or fail to succeed is up to them as individuals, IMHO. Peroid.

How is speaking English as an, "American," not a benefit to those seeking to better their personal situation? My grandfathers father did it, when he came here from France, as did my grandmothers mother, from Germany.

People need to get over themselves, and realize that there ARE basic core values of just being, American. The hyphenated shit just drives me crazy.

JHMO,

Holly

[nmap]

Originally Posted by Richard

I welcome the continued march of change and have little fear that we are losing either our perceived culture or our primary language as both are continuing to progress and - inevitably - change with that progression to keep up with our society's communication requirements, just as they always have in spite of the ever present hue and cry to the contrary.

Thought provoking in the best kind of way.

I think two issues exist. First, our collective culture and the norms of our society define part of the environment in which we exist. We might ask whether this environment contributes to progress, or detracts. The era of the 1950's, whatever its good and bad points might have been, seems to have produced growth, both economic and otherwise. As we change the cultural environment, we may be laying the groundwork toward greater future success, or ruining a good arrangement. Unfortunately, a dearth of information makes it impossible to say for sure. So the change you welcome may be a very good thing. Or it may be problematic. We won't know for sure for decades, but we can have great fun arguing in the meantime.

The second issue is how people in the cultural environment will react if other variables change. IMO, it appears that many believe in abundance. In essence, abundance means that we have and will always have plenty of everything we want and need. That abundance, along with the broad range of opportunity implied by abundance, will, I think, mitigate any tendency toward conflict. However, my view is that scarcity can and will assert itself from time to time; and, when it does, cultural differences will exacerbate conflict. This is quite a big logical leap, so of course others may have different conclusions.

In essence, we are conducting a vast experiment and making changes in something that has worked pretty well. We're also assuming that the abundance that supports our current social arrangements will continue. I think this will all end badly, though it could easily take 50 years to fully develop.

[Utah Bob]

Lets not forget Gullah.

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by echoes

Sigaba,

Respectfully, the entitlement mind-set has always been a slippery subject.

After reading your thoughts, and weighing them with what I have been taught by those in the past, (who are far smarter than me,) my answer is yes!

A soceity is made up of people who start in different economic and psychologic tiers.

How they succeed or fail to succeed is up to them as individuals, IMHO. Peroid.

How is speaking English as an, "American," not a benefit to those seeking to better their personal situation? My grandfathers father did it, when he came here from France, as did my grandmothers mother, from Germany.

People need to get over themselves, and realize that there ARE basic core values of just being, American. The hyphenated shit just drives me crazy.

JHMO,

Holly

I am having a hard time following the logic of your post.

[Eagle5US]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

I am having a hard time following the logic of your post.

Now you know how I feel regarding yours

Eagle

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by Eagle5US

Now you know how I feel regarding yours

Eagle

Part of the logic of my post is situated in the post-consensus historiography of the American experience that emerged in the mid 1950s.

In a nutshell, I agree with those historians who argue that there never has been broad agreement over the United States's basic values, traditions, and institutions but rather continuing conflict / collisions among different groups with differing visions of America.

MOO, these differences are the foundation of America's power, not its weakness.

[Eagle5US]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

In a nutshell, I agree with those historians who argue that there never has been broad agreement over the United States's basic values, traditions, and institutions but rather continuing conflict / collisions among different groups with differing visions of America.

MOO, these differences are the foundation of America's power, not its weakness.

I would argue that PREVIOUSLY this may indeed have been the case as ideas were confluent and added a synergy to the building of the Nation. However, in IMHO this synergy towards PROGRESS has now been BRUTALLY SACRIFICED in the name of political correctness -

If groups wish to segregate themselves by language, there are plenty of places for them to go where they can exclusively enjoy their language to their hearts content and not have to worry about the utilization of OUR ENGLISH language.

Eagle

[echoes]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

In a nutshell, I agree with those historians who argue that there never has been broad agreement over the United States's basic values, traditions, and institutions but rather continuing conflict / collisions among different groups with differing visions of America.

Sigaba,

Oh Hell Yes there was, and is! Look up the United States Army, for one! Agreement in how, what, why and where. Those are THE basic values, IMVHO.

These men & women fought and DIED to protect those values, and to say that there were none, is a big fat slap in the face to ALL who have sacrificed to Serve America, IMHO!

Holly

[orion5]

I am always amazed at the topics that get the most posts on this forum.....you never can predict what will get people spun up....

[1stindoor]

I'm always amazed at the level of thought and research done by both sides of any given discussion.

That's what makes this site so unique.

[greenberetTFS]

Originally Posted by orion5

I am always amazed at the topics that get the most posts on this forum.....you never can predict what will get people spun up....

I concur..................

Big Teddy

[Saoirse]

I remember back in the mid90s when there was talk in the CA school system of allowing ebonics and translation thereof. I thought "how sad that they are going to allow people to speak this way in an educational forum. How do they think they are helping anyone?" For that matter, for anyone to call it the black language is demeaning to black people. I have friends that are black and they don't use ebonics, as a matter of fact, they abhor it and mock those that do. IMO, anyone who uses it shows an incredible amount of ignorance, it shows they lack education even on the simplest level and thus, not worthy of my employment if I were a business owner (they would reflect my business).
However, as some of us have pointed out, it exists in the innercity criminal element and they know that the majority of folks cannot understand it so they use it to their benefit. In their world, it is essential, in the REAL world it is worthless.

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by orion5

I am always amazed at the topics that get the most posts on this forum.....you never can predict what will get people spun up....

Originally Posted by 1stindoor

I'm always amazed at the level of thought and research done by both sides of any given discussion.

That's what makes this site so unique.

True on both counts. It is the only website I visit that no matter what the topic, you get at least two perspectives and often disagreement which remains civil.

I always come away learning something of use

[akv]

Originally Posted by Eagle5US

If traveling in Germany and an Asian family was speaking in their Asian Language, would the Germans then assume that they were American? Probably not. However, if they were speaking in English, then probably so.

Sir,

I respectfully disagree, IMHO even most Western Europeans are relatively more provincial or less accepting of ethnic assimilation as Americans. I visited Paris and Vienna after school with two buddies from college Rick and Amit. Rick is ethnically Chinese (family came over to California in 1800's), and Amit is second generation from Ohio ( parents came to US in the 1960's from India.) Both obviously speak perfect American english. We would try to ask the locals for good eating spots. On numerous occasions the responses were as follows. If I asked, they pointed out Mcdonalds since obviously thats what an American in Paris eats, If Rick asked Chinese places, and kebabs for Amit. Now it's possible we ran into nothing but the Euro version of ignorant hicks, or they saw three young guys and correctly assumed we were on a budget. However, it seemed fairly obvious they didn't see Rick and Amit as "real Americans", it got funnier as we went further east. In Prague Amit was asked if he planned to move back to India, his response of " I'm from Cleveland buddy" was met with blank stares, though solid kebab recomendations...