NYC Ground Zero Mosque

[Richard]

Do 'singles' still work? Crap!!! I figured with inflation, it had to at least be 5 bucks these days!

5$!!!!! No wonder she stayed over on your side of the stage!

Richard

[T-Rock]

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JxmuUzkBm0

Mosab Hassan Yousef certainly sees through the BS, he was schooled in the Medinan way...

Since Islam is inherently political, how will Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf deal with the political fallout

“And there are those who put up a mosque by way of mischief and infidelity - to disunite the Believers - and in preparation for one who warred against Allah and His Messenger aforetime. They will indeed swear that their intention is nothing but good; But Allah doth declare that they are certainly liars. " (Sura 9:107)

ETA

In order for Abdul Rauf not to be considered a liar, from a theological, legal, and doctrinal perspective, what must the GZ Mosque do in order to fulfill the spirit of “Mo-Alla” - in the way of building bridges to peace, as not to disunify the believers ?

Surah 9 pretty much validates the idea of conquest and holds the key to what the GZ Mosque is all about for true believers. Sura 9 is all about how big “Mo” had given his word and signed his name to building the bridges of peace through cultural centers and Mosques.

Go ye, then, for four months, backwards and forwards, (as ye will), throughout the land, but know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah (by your falsehood) but that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him. (Sura 9:2)

And then, “Mo-Alla” goes on to renege on his commitment…will Rauf do the same?

And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith. (Sura 9:3)

How trustworthy is the word of an Imam whose messenger and god are willing to break their sworn oaths of peace and unity?

Sura 9:5 holds the key…

But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/c...n/009.qmt.html

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/c...n/009.qmt.html

[Thomas Paine]

More on the Imam, this one by Paul Sperry:

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion...diF6UGZUr3xvNO


Rauf: a moderate?
By PAUL SPERRY

Last Updated: 6:44 AM, August 23, 2010

Posted: 12:28 AM, August 23, 2010

In the Ground Zero mosque debate, de fenders of Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf have pointed out that in 2003 the FBI brought him in to help train its agents -- so how radical could he be?

The first problem is that Rauf's "help" turned out to be worse than worthless. The bigger problem is that the FBI has a rotten record when it comes to identifying moderate Muslims -- as opposed to ones who are happy to feed non-Muslims the pabulum they're willing to swallow.

Start with Rauf and the FBI. He was brought into the New York field office to give at least four sessions of sensitivity training.

Speaking for about two hours each time, "he gave an overview of Islamic culture and some of the differences between what fundamentalist terrorist groups say are the teachings of the Koran and what he believes, as a student of religion, the Koran actually says," FBI New York office spokesman James Margolin told me back then.

For example, Rauf asserted that the Koran "certainly doesn't counsel terrorism, murder or mayhem," Margolin says. And he said terrorists have misinterpreted jihad to mean violent, or armed, struggle against nonbelievers. Rauf assured agents it means internal struggle.

Now, it's tricky for outsiders to say what the Koran "really" says. But Rauf's claim definitely isn't mainstream. Respected Koranic scholar Abdullah Yusuf Ali, for example, confirms in his venerable translation and interpretation of the Muslim holy text that jihad means advancing Islam, including by physically fighting Islam's enemies.

Yes, Rauf's mistaken interpretation matters: For starters, the false belief that terrorists have a wildly different reading of the Koran than most Muslims would make it far harder for FBI agents to understand the subtle, step-by-step radicalization process -- a process not well described by US law enforcement until the NYPD's landmark 2007 report, "Radicalization in the West: The Homegrown Threat."

Of course, the Kuwait-born Rauf has to know the facts here. If he believes jihad is really just an internal struggle, then why does he refuse to condemn Hamas? (Why, for that matter, did he in late 2001 suggest that "US policies were an accessory to the crime" of 9/11?)

There's also Rauf's laughable claim that the Islamic legal code is compatible with the US Constitution.

Rauf is hardly what most of us think of as a moderate Muslim. But our government isn't great at making these distinctions. The State Department last week sent Rauf on a $16,000 goodwill tour around the Muslim world.

On top of this is the problem of Muslim preachers who speak with forked tongues. Some of the worst:

* Zaid Shakir, who appears in an anti-terror video with eight other "moderate" US imams. Shakir says, in carefully parsed language, that Islam forbids "indiscriminate" violence and the killing of "civilians."

Killing US soldiers is another story, however, as Shakir allowed in a pre-9/11 sermon on jihad to San Francisco Muslims.

"Islam doesn't permit us to hijack airplanes filled with civilian people," he told them privately in 2001. However, "if you hijack an airplane filled with the 82nd Airborne, that's something else." He gave his blessing to bombs, too, as long as they don't hit too many civilians. And civilians are fair game if "there's a benefit in that."

"What a great victory it will be for Islam to have this country in the fold and ranks of the Muslims," sermonized Shakir, who's been portrayed as a moderate by The New York Times.

* Ali al-Timimi, the noted imam who put on a moderate face in public while secretly plotting against us.

Timimi publicly denounced Islamic violence while privately praising the 9/11 attacks. He even cheered the Columbia space-shuttle disaster as a "good omen." Timimi, who once enjoyed federal security clearance, is now behind bars for soliciting terror and treason.

* Anwar al-Awlaki, the US-born imam who led Friday prayer in the US Capitol and became the media's go-to "moderate" spokesman for the Muslim community after 9/11. On the day of the attacks, he told the press: "We're totally against what the terrorists had done." Now a federally designated al Qaeda terrorist fugitive, he speaks more honestly to Americans: "9/11 was the answer of the millions of people who suffer from American aggression. You are still unsafe."

Many Muslim leaders talk about tolerance and interfaith dialogue, but behind our backs they plan our destruction. To deal with the Muslim community, we must deal with its leaders. But based on their track record of dissembling, we can't go on blindly trusting them.

Paul Sperry is a Hoover Institution media fellow and author of "Infiltration" and "Muslim Mafia."



RCP had this article this morning, then dropped it. What's up with that?

[T-Rock]

Andalusian Myth, Eurabian Reality

Bat Ye'or and Andrew G. Bostom

On Sunday, April 18, 2004, this revealing exchange took place between outgoing Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar, and interviewer Chris Wallace of FoxNews: Chris Wallace: "In the apartment that was blown up, police found a videotape in which the bombers referred to Spain as Andalusia, what it was called by the Muslim Moors before they were driven out in 1492."


Jose Maria Aznar (through the translator): "So this means that Iraq, for them, was just a pretext. In the eyes of Islamic terrorism, it looks at the West, and Spain is a very special part of this parcel, because they feel that to recover Spain is to get back some of their territory."

Islamic scholar Mordechai Nisan recently discussed the contention by the founder of the Institute of Islamic Education, M. Amir Ali, that Medieval Spain had actually been "liberated" by Muslim forces, who "deposed its tyrants". Nisan extrapolated this ahistorical narrative line, and pondered:

"Reflecting on March 11, as Muslim terrorism killed 200 and wounded 1,400 in Madrid, one wonders whether one day this event will also not be commemorated as a liberating moment. "


Events surrounding the completion of the new Granada Mosque, which was marked by celebratory announcements July 10, 2003 of a "...return of Islam to Spain", were also consistent with Nisan's dark musings. At a conference entitled "Islam in Europe" that accompanied the opening of the mosque, disconcerting statements were made by European Muslim leaders. Specifically, the keynote speaker at this conference, Umar Ibrahim Vadillo, a Spanish Muslim leader, encouraged Muslims to cause an economic collapse of Western economies (by ceasing to use Western currencies, and switching to gold dinars), while the German Muslim leader Abu Bakr Rieger told Muslim attendees to avoid adapting their Islamic religious practices to accommodate European (i.e., Western Enlightenment?) values.


Shortly after this event, a Wall Street Journal editorialist in a grossly distorted encomium to Muslim Spain, mentioned the "pan-confessional humanism" of Andalusian Islam, and even asserted: "one could argue that the oft-bewailed missing 'reformation' of Islam was under way there until it was aborted by the Inquisition."

María Rosa Menocal, Yale Professor of Spanish and Portuguese, in her 2002 hagiography of Muslim Spain, The Ornament of the World, has further maintained that "the new Islamic polity not only allowed Jews and Christians to survive, but following Qur'anic mandate, by and large protected them."

We believe that reiterating these ahistorical, roseate claims about Muslim Spain abets the contemporary Islamist agenda, and retards the evolution of a liberal, reformed "Euro-Islam" fully compatible with post-Enlightenment Western values.

Iberia (Spain) was conquered in 710-716 AD by Arab tribes originating from northern, central and southern Arabia. Massive Berber and Arab immigration, and the colonization of the Iberian peninsula, followed the conquest. Most churches were converted into mosques. Although the conquest had been planned and conducted jointly with a strong faction of royal Iberian Christian dissidents, including a bishop, it proceeded as a classical jihad with massive pillages, enslavement, deportations and killings.

Toledo, which had first submitted to the Arabs in 711 or 712, revolted in 713. The town was punished by pillage and all the notables had their throats cut. In 730, the Cerdagne (in Septimania, near Barcelona) was ravaged and a bishop burned alive. In the regions under stable Islamic control, Jews and Christians were tolerated as dhimmis - like elsewhere in other Islamic lands - and could not build new churches or synagogues nor restore the old ones. Segregated in special quarters, they had to wear discriminatory clothing. Subjected to heavy taxes, the Christian peasantry formed a servile class attached to the Arab domains; many abandoned their land and fled to the towns. Harsh reprisals with mutilations and crucifixions* would sanction the Mozarab (Christian dhimmis) calls for help from the Christian kings. Moreover, if one dhimmi harmed a Muslim, the whole community would lose its status of protection, leaving it open to pillage, enslavement and arbitrary killing.

By the end of the eighth century, the rulers of North Africa and of Andalusia had introduced Malikism, one of the most rigorous schools of Islamic jurisprudence, and subsequently repressed the other Muslim schools of law. Three quarters of a century ago, at a time when political correctness was not dominating historical publication and discourse, Evariste Lévi-Provençal, the pre-eminent scholar of Andalusia, wrote: "The Muslim Andalusian state thus appears from its earliest origins as the defender and champion of a jealous orthodoxy, more and more ossified in a blind respect for a rigid doctrine, suspecting and condemning in advance the least effort of rational speculation."

The humiliating status imposed on the dhimmis and the confiscation of their land provoked many revolts, punished by massacres, as in Toledo (761, 784-86, 797). After another Toledan revolt in 806, seven hundred inhabitants were executed. Insurrections erupted in Saragossa from 781 to 881, Cordova (805), Merida (805-813, 828 and the following year, and later in 868), and yet again in Toledo (811-819); the insurgents were crucified, as prescribed in Qur'an 5:33*.

The revolt in Cordova of 818 was crushed by three days of massacres and pillage, with 300 notables crucified and 20 000 families expelled. Feuding was endemic in the Andalusian cities between the different sectors of the population: Arab and Berber colonizers, Iberian Muslim converts (Muwalladun) and Christian dhimmis (Mozarabs). There were rarely periods of peace in the Amirate of Cordova (756-912), nor later.

Al-Andalus represented the land of jihad par excellence. Every year, sometimes twice a year, raiding expeditions were sent to ravage the Christian Spanish kingdoms to the north, the Basque regions, or France and the Rhone valley, bringing back booty and slaves. Andalusian corsairs attacked and invaded along the Sicilian and Italian coasts, even as far as the Aegean Islands, looting and burning as they went. Thousands of people were deported to slavery in Andalusia, where the caliph kept a militia of tens of thousand of Christian slaves brought from all parts of Christian Europe (the Saqaliba), and a harem filled with captured Christian women. Society was sharply divided along ethnic and religious lines, with the Arab tribes at the top of the hierarchy, followed by the Berbers who were never recognized as equals, despite their Islamization; lower in the scale came the mullawadun converts and, at the very bottom, the dhimmi Christians and Jews.

The Andalusian Maliki jurist Ibn Abdun (d. 1134) offered these telling legal opinions regarding Jews and Christians in Seville around 1100 C.E.: "No...Jew or Christian may be allowed to wear the dress of an aristocrat, nor of a jurist, nor of a wealthy individual; on the contrary they must be detested and avoided. It is forbidden to [greet] them with the [expression], 'Peace be upon you'. In effect, 'Satan has gained possession of them, and caused them to forget God's warning. They are the confederates of Satan's party; Satan's confederates will surely be the losers!' (Qur'an 58:19 [modern Dawood translation]). A distinctive sign must be imposed upon them in order that they may be recognized and this will be for them a form of disgrace."

Ibn Abdun also forbade the selling of scientific books to dhimmis, under the pretext that they translated them and attributed them to their co-religionists and bishops. In fact, plagiarism is difficult to prove since whole Jewish and Christian libraries were looted and destroyed. Another prominent Andalusian jurist, Ibn Hazm of Cordoba (d. 1064), wrote that Allah has established the infidels' ownership of their property merely to provide booty for Muslims.

In Granada, the Jewish viziers Samuel Ibn Naghrela and his son Joseph, who protected the Jewish community, were both assassinated between 1056 to 1066, followed by the annihilation of the Jewish population by the local Muslims. It is estimated that up to five thousand Jews perished in the pogrom by Muslims that accompanied the 1066 assassination. This figure equals or exceeds the number of Jews reportedly killed by the Crusaders during their pillage of the Rhineland, some thirty years later, at the outset of the First Crusade.

The Granada pogrom was likely to have been incited, in part, by the bitter anti-Jewish ode of Abu Ishaq, a well known Muslim jurist and poet of the times, who wrote: "Put them back where they belong and reduce them to the lowest of the low..turn your eyes to other [Muslim] countries and you will find the Jews there are outcast dogs...Do not consider it a breach of faith to kill them...They have violated our covenant with them so how can you be held guilty against the violators?"

The Muslim Berber Almohads in Spain and North Africa (1130-1232) wreaked enormous destruction on both the Jewish and Christian populations. This devastation- massacre, captivity, and forced conversion- was described by the Jewish chronicler Abraham Ibn Daud, and the poet Abraham Ibn Ezra.

Bat Ye'or, www.dhimmitude.org, www.dhimmi.org , is the author most recently of Islam and Dhimmitude: Where Civilizations Collide, and the forthcoming Eurabia.

Read the rest - Source > http://ibloga.blogspot.com/2010/08/a...nitiative.html

[alright4u]

Their hero was a damn thief and a murderer of innocent people riding in caravans. Jesse and Frank James had more class.

Hell for 3-4 coins the bastard wanted a hand cut off for simple theft of fruit.

Yet the Great ONE robbed caravans worth a 100,000 the value of a piece of fruit? Let's not forget he killed them, too'

So Islam sucks in teaching.

If you like rob the rich not the poor- you might like Islam.

This religion is not going to assimilate in America.

[Saoirse]

Originally Posted by alright4u

Their hero was a damn thief and a murderer of innocent people riding in caravans. Jesse and Frank James had more class.

Hell for 3-4 coins the bastard wanted a hand cut off for simple theft of fruit.

Yet the Great ONE robbed caravans worth a 100,000 the value of a piece of fruit? Let's not forget he killed them, too'

So Islam sucks in teaching.

If you like rob the rich not the poor- you might like Islam.

This religion is not going to assimilate in America.

I couldn't agree more with you, Alright! For some reason the words, "we ain't played cowboys and muslims, yet" keeps rolling around in the back of my head. Yeah, I'm just sayn!!!

[alright4u]

SF Soldiers playing the damn COIN game of Petraus plus his BS that he invented it. Add the PC, MC, EEOC officers. We win wars by killing the damn enemy- not PC BS.

[greenberetTFS]

Originally Posted by Richard

5$!!!!! No wonder she stayed over on your side of the stage!

Richard

For openers,God Bless those hard hats!.......... As for you and Zonie, I'll bet you two guys haven't been to a strip joint since you've been out of the service......

Big Teddy

[casey]

Originally Posted by greenberetTFS

As for you and Zonie, I'll bet you two guys haven't been to a strip joint since you've been out of the service......

Big Teddy

Res Gestae lads !!! Res Gestae !! No statements until RL clears you......

[Penn]

In addition to the above, this article has a bit more local commentary.

Imam: Handling of Islamic center plan a matter of national security
By the CNN Wire Staff


"The whole national security thing: that's a veiled threat," Andy Sullivan, a union construction worker who wants all New York construction workers to boycott the proposed Islamic center, said on CNN's "AC 360" Wednesday night. "He's saying 'you make me move' and, guess what, the whole radical Muslim world is coming after us."
"This is a turf war," Sullivan said.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/09/09/new...r.imam/?hpt=T1

[Richard]

So the 'Jets' and the 'Sharks' are gonna rumble again...and the popularity of revivals remains unabated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu7sRdRrm_w

The Imam didn't say it "can't" be moved - he said it would now be difficult {complicated, sensitive} and potentially dangerous, and must be handled in a way that neither encourages nor allows radical elements to use such a decision for the furthering of their agendas.

The interview with Soledad O'brien is here.

http://www.cnn.com/

Richard

[Penn]

This gross over simplification attempts to trivializes the positions of the actors, by comparison to “West Side Story”? Surly you jest, but OK; now that we have succumbed to threats of retaliation, I guess we’ll need O’Leary and McGarry to find a resolution for Power Sharing in deeply divided places, like Manhattan.

Appeasement is no answer to overt or veiled threats. The reasoning is what? That the radical islamist will react violently if the muskox is forced to moved, due to the override consideration that its within the zone of a grave yard/crime site where thousands of families are left without closure. It will recruit more suicide bombers? Theres going to be a negative reaction? There will be anyway?

You empower them by succumbing to their manipulation of constitutional guarantees, our open society is offensive to their cultural traditions.

A recent example; On 22st in NYC the muslims decided to open a unauthorized, non permit, illegal pray room/store front muskox. This has been the result: The city refused, by not enforcing the law, to close the place for non code compliance, has resulted in the street being impassable at various times due to empty cabs left in the middle of the street. The bar across the street-operating in their location for 20+ years was “Forced” to cover a very valuable Manhattan asset, its window, as the sight line of the bar offended these POS.

The more seemingly legal battles they win, through the lack of confrontation, the more embolden they are becoming.

Tick, Tick, Tick

[TraininDummy]

Gentlemen,
I was walking through my old student union at the University of Oklahoma the other day with my wife and saw a flyer for an Islamic Panel Discussion that will be held at OU later this month. It's titled "My America, My Islam: Muslims talk about Islam in America and the New York Islamic Center Controversy" the web address for the discussion is
http://newsok.com/my-america-my-isla...rticle/3495191
The panel will be held on September 21, 2010 at 7:00pm at the Regents Room, Oklahoma Memorial Union.

The flyer posted there will be three members on the discussion panel. I have gladly done some research on each of them.

1. Mona Eltahawy who is described as an award winning columnist, who is frequently published in the Washington Post and speaks around the world on Islamic Issues. You can visit her blog at www.monaeltahawy.com
She claims to be a moderate who only got involved in the NYC mosque debate only because of the constitutionality of the issue in a CNN video here: http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vi...eisal.cnn.html

She also commented on the racial bigotry of the 9/11 rally this year: "I will not surrender that comfort as birds of a feather plan to flock to NYC for a hatefest to mark the ninth anniversary of 9/11. The right-wing group “Stop Islamization of America” will be hosting a rally against the proposed Islamic Community Center in Lower Manhattan. Attending will be a who’s who of bigots – former speaker of the US House of Representatives Newt Gingrich, former US ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton, publisher Andrew Breitbart, and, most notoriously, the far-right Dutch parliamentarian Geert Wilders, who has called my religion “the ideology of a retarded culture.” The rest of the entry can be found here: http://www.monaeltahawy.com/blog/?p=308

2. Mohammad Daadaoui is described as an Assistant Professor of Political Science and Middle East Studies at Oklahoma City University. In 2009, Mohammad and OCU hosted in first "Islam Day" on campus. He invited members of CAIR to come to campus and talk to students about "the religion of peace." A section of the article states "Daadaoui organized lectures and interfaith panel discussions with community leaders including Razi Hashmi of the Oklahoma Council on American-Islamic Relations; Imad Enchassi, Imam of the Islamic Society of Greater Oklahoma City and Rabbi Abbey Jacobson of the Emanuel Synagogue in Oklahoma City. OCU religion professors John Starks and Dann May will also speak." Full article can be found here: http://www.edmondsun.com/features/x4...ation-of-iFast

3. Malaka Elyazgi is described as the Chair of the Ethnic American Advisory Council to Governor Brad Henry, OK. She is a leader of the Muslim community in Oklahoma. I found an article that states "Malaka A. Elyazgi's husband Mohamed was quoted as a spokesman for the mosque in Norman following the October 1, 2005, suicide bombing on the OU campus. He was a business partner in a small shop in Oklahoma City with Mufid Abdulqader, who was indicted as a fundraiser for the Palestinian terrorist group Hamas, of which Abdulqader's half-brother is the supreme political leader." Full article can be found here: http://www.batesline.com/archives/20...re-only-o.html

I have known that OU has had a strong influence from the Muslim community for quite some time. OU's petroleum engineering and energy management programs are some of the best in the nation. That is one reason why so many Saudis, Syrians, Jordanian, etc attend the university. It is also known that one of the 9/11 hijackers trained in aviation at OU. I do not expect any of these "speakers" to be moderate, to say the least. It is my speculation that this is a potential act of subversion against our nation's youth to plant false impressions in the minds of American students who will one day become prominent members of American society.