Border Patrol Shooting.

[MeC86]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100610/...atrol_shooting

Mexico wants the Agent extradited to face "justice." Someone let the authorities in Juarez know they have a few thousand unsolved homicides they need to look into before going after one of ours.

EL PASO, Texas – Mexico condemned the shooting of a 15-year-old boy by a U.S. Border Patrol agent Thursday through diplomatic correspondence and an angry phone call to the Homeland Security secretary. Some Mexican politicians called for the agent's extradition to face Mexican justice.

Anger over Monday's shooting across a muddy riverbed on the international border was fueled by a cell-phone video that showed key moments in the shooting, as debate began over which country has jurisdiction in the case.

A still-unidentified Border Patrol agent trying to arrest illegal immigrants running into the United States fired his weapon from the U.S. side into Mexico, killing 15-year-old Sergio Adrian Hernandez Huereka while people on the Mexican side threw rocks at the Border Patrol agents on the scene.

What is still unclear is whether Hernandez was one of the rock-throwers and whether the agent or the victim crossed the international border. Shortly after the shooting, Mexican federal police chased Border Patrol agents out of the riverbed with rifles trained on them while a crowd on the Mexican side taunted the U.S. officials and threw rocks and firecrackers.

"We are worried by this surge of violence against Mexicans, which comes along with a surge of other anti-immigrant and anti-Mexican occurrences in the United States," Mexican President Felipe Calderon said in a new statement, apparently referring to Arizona's new immigration law, which the Mexican leader has previously condemned as discriminatory.

The grainy cell phone video aired by Univision in Mexico shows an edited glimpse of the violence. In it, a Border Patrol agent on a bicycle arrives in the riverbed as several men attempt to run back to Mexico. He detains one on the U.S. side and once he has him on the ground, fires two audible shots toward Mexico. The camera then shows what appears to be a body under a nearby railroad bridge.

Interior Secretary Fernando Gomez Mont phoned U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, to protest the killing of Hernandez and a man on the California-Mexico border two weeks ago. Gomez Mont's office said he demanded that the U.S. and Mexico carry out a joint review of protocols on the use of force by border officers.

Gomez Mont told Napolitano the "unjustified use of force against our population is unacceptable to the Mexican government."

Border Patrol agents are allowed to use lethal force against rock-throwers.

Calderon's government has comes under increasing criticism at home for what some Mexicans believe is a lukewarm reaction to the two deaths. Opposition politicians and some commentators criticized Calderon for leaving on Thursday to watch the World Cup in South Africa.

Jesus Ortega, president of the opposition Democratic Revolution Party, said the Border Patrol agent who shot Hernandez should be extradited to Mexico.

"When a delinquent commits a crime in Mexico that affects a U.S. citizen, extradition is immediately requested and the Mexican government immediately grants it," Ortega said.

Calderon gave no indication his government had any intention of seeking extradition. Instead, he called for a thorough U.S. investigation that "clears up the facts and culminates with punishing those responsible."

So when a bullet leaves one country and kills someone in another, who has jurisdiction?

If it is determined that the shooting was a crime and not justified use of force by law enforcement, long-standing legal principle in the U.S. states that the victim's location determines jurisdiction, international law experts said.

For example, if someone fired a bullet from North Carolina and killed someone in South Carolina, the latter would have jurisdiction, said Kal Raustiala, professor of law and director of the Burkle Center for International Relations at UCLA.

Still, most countries believe that they can prosecute anyone who harms one of their citizens, regardless of location, he said. In the case of the U.S. and Mexico, no treaty covers this specific set of circumstances, he said.

If the Border Patrol agent went to Mexico for any reason, he could be subject to arrest, Raustiala said, and the U.S. would have difficulty arguing that Mexico was acting illegally. On the other hand, if Mexican authorities kidnapped the agent in the U.S. and took him to Mexico for trial — as the U.S. did in the case of a Mexican doctor involved in the torture and killing of a U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration agent — the U.S. could argue violation of its sovereignty, he said.

"It does seem unlikely that Mexico is actually going to be able to try this person," Raustiala said.

Both countries could agree to establish a claims commission that, depending on the ground rules, could just determine facts or go so far as to order compensation, said Jordan Paust, an international law expert at the University of Houston.

Theoretically, the case could go to the International Court of Justice, but the U.S. would have to agree to that, he said. Or the whole thing could be handled diplomatically.

Hernandez's family would also have the option of pursuing a civil case against the Border Patrol agent.

If Mexico requested extradition, normally the Obama administration would proceed with the request unless it is conducting its own criminal investigation and prosecution, Paust said. U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder would assign a federal prosecutor to represent Mexico's case before a U.S. magistrate or district judge.

If the U.S. felt there were no grounds for the request — for example, it was self-defense — Mexico could hire its own attorney to represent its case in federal court. That lawyer would have to first prove that Mexico had jurisdiction, then show that the alleged crime existed under both countries' laws, and finally would have to demonstrate that there was probable cause that the crime had been committed.

State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley said Thursday that the agency had received a formal diplomatic note from Mexico on Wednesday expressing concern about the shooting. Crowley reaffirmed the U.S. commitment to a transparent investigation.

[ZonieDiver]

It is time to tell Mexico to 'piss up a rope'! I seriously doubt that anyone on s national level will do that, however. Too bad.

[mojaveman]

My guess is that the Border Patrol agents didn't just get a few small rocks tossed at them but instead were probably caught in a fusilade of large stones. Stone throwing has been a problem on the border for some time now.

Throwing a rock at someone is assualt with a deadly weapon. Those officers countered that attack with lethal force.

Oh well, it probably isn't a good idea to start a fight with someone when all you have is rocks and your adversaries have guns...

[wch84]

I hope the USBP agent isn't left flapping in the breeze on this one. Then again, in light of Calderon getting a standing ovation in the House a few weeks back, I hope the agent involved has a good lawyer.

Where was the outrage in Mexico when the Arizona rancher was murdered a month or so ago?

[1stindoor]

Originally Posted by wch84

Where was the outrage in Mexico when the Arizona rancher was murdered a month or so ago?

Funny thing about that was the fact that the rancher in question was a known "illegal" supporter and aided those coming across the border. His murder was also a contributing factor to AZ's new policy towards illegal immigrants.

[Five-O]

Well done by the Border Patrol agent, he did his job securing our border and he went home to his family that night. Anecdotally speaking, the USBP has a long and inglorious history of not supporting their agents involved in shootings. What about having a National Guard infantry company on overwatch as the FBI conducts their investigation??

[fng13]

Why can't we just tell Mexico that this is just a result of their "addiction" to American money and the American way of life, and that this sort of thing will go on until they can cull their "addiction."

Seems I've heard them say something like that to us.

[Green Light]

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

Will they prosicute the mexicans that pointed rifles at the FBI agents investigationg the shooting? Isn't that considered an act of war?

They wouldn't point them if the FBI agents were transported there in M2 Bradleys. That 25mm chain gun should very gently intimidate the intimidators. A gentle reminder that we don't take kindly to being in someone's sights. But our current government won't stand up for its border guards any more than the last one did.

[MeC86]

http://www.univision.com/content/vid...ml?cid=2433072

Looks like the agent shot one of the 3 people throwing rocks, one handed, from what looks like over 30 yards, while holding down a suspect.

Less than Ideal conditions for someone who was intent on murdering (as it is being portrayed).

It's Self defense. Anyone who thinks differently, let me toss a rock at you and see if it does some damage.

[Utah Bob]

Perhaps the Mexicans will mount a Punitive Expedition and cross the border in force to bring the agent to justice.

[wch84]

Originally Posted by 1stindoor

Funny thing about that was the fact that the rancher in question was a known "illegal" supporter and aided those coming across the border. His murder was also a contributing factor to AZ's new policy towards illegal immigrants.

Did not realize that he was sympathetic to those crossing the border, thanks for the info.

[ZonieDiver]

Originally Posted by wch84

Did not realize that he was sympathetic to those crossing the border, thanks for the info.

There has been a great deal of misunderstanding about this - thanks to 'shoddy' reporting by the media. Rancher Robert Krentz was in NO way sympathetic to the illegals streaming across the border and trespassing on his land. He had suffered severe monetary loss because of this - as well as a loss of a sense of security for self and family. Otherwise he would not have been out late in his ATV, with his walker in the back - which he needed for mobility due to 2 recent surgeries.

In one interview a year or so ago, he mentioned that - despite the break-INS, robberies, trespassing, polluting, and other problems - he still provided water to those suffering that he found. He also called the authorities.

Mr. Krentz was the brother-in-law of a co-worker who has been devastated by his death, the circumstances suurounding it, those on the left and right trying to advance their agendas in light of the killing, and the current lack of action due to the '15 minute time limit' being expired.

His humanity did not make him an 'open borders' advocate. He knew full-well the costs of said policy - up close and personal.

[PSM]

My wife and I are currently camping in a travel trailer on our newly acquired land near Sierra Vista, AZ. We're a mile and a half from the San Pedro river and are bordered on 3 sides by BLM land.

Walking the dog this morning in a nearby wash and on the BLM land, I found about a dozen weathered backpacks scattered around. There were water bottles and clothing also. One item of clothing was a military-style jumpsuit.

Our RE agent was a friend of the murdered rancher. Retirement could get interesting. On the other hand, I can now have my own pistol and rifle range.

Pat

[levinj]

Interesting time to be joining Border Patrol.

Is it a positive sign that the agent's name hasn't been released to the press yet? That implies - at least, to me - that the agency is trying to avoid having to publicly abandon this guy. In other cases that I've seen, once the agents' names are released, the press wastes no time in disemboweling them.

Obviously, I'm no expert. Maybe just an optimist.

[wch84]

Originally Posted by ZonieDiver

There has been a great deal of misunderstanding about this - thanks to 'shoddy' reporting by the media. Rancher Robert Krentz was in NO way sympathetic to the illegals streaming across the border and trespassing on his land. He had suffered severe monetary loss because of this - as well as a loss of a sense of security for self and family. Otherwise he would not have been out late in his ATV, with his walker in the back - which he needed for mobility due to 2 recent surgeries.

In one interview a year or so ago, he mentioned that - despite the break-INS, robberies, trespassing, polluting, and other problems - he still provided water to those suffering that he found. He also called the authorities.

Mr. Krentz was the brother-in-law of a co-worker who has been devastated by his death, the circumstances suurounding it, those on the left and right trying to advance their agendas in light of the killing, and the current lack of action due to the '15 minute time limit' being expired.

His humanity did not make him an 'open borders' advocate. He knew full-well the costs of said policy - up close and personal.

ZD, thank you for the clarification. It does not surprise me that the media would get it wrong. I'm assuming the fact that he provided water to those he found got twisted by the media into being sympathetic to those crossing illegally.

Sorry to hear how hard this is on his family.