U.S. military report warns 'sudden collapse' of Mexico is possible

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by nmap

I cannot help wondering if defending the border is a practical possibility, although I certainly support the idea.

A Mine Field might assist.....but if a call was made for every able bodied (and Legal citizen) man to defend the border with firearms it might be possible.

[dr. mabuse]

*

[akv]

Originally Posted by dr. mabuse

Somehow we need to aggressively address both issues, supply and demand. I don't know.

I initially though just legalize it, and let drug abusers meet their fate, but in a welfare state this would likely only add to the burden of the responsible citizens.

IMHO, Djibouti perhaps the world's fist Narco-society provides a decent example of the dangers of legalized drugs. Very simply it seems this entire little country is perpetually stoned on Khat, a chewable narcotic. Unemployment is north of 60%, people spend a fifth of their income on Khat leaves, and basically people (including the government) sit around watching TV and nothing gets done ever. Some estimate 80% of the populace is addicted, men spend 8 hours a day sitting around chewing Khat, side effects being, loss of appetite, constipation, and insomnia, and the country shuts down Thursday afternoons until the weekend Khat leaf shipment shows up.

On the flip side they proudly point out they have very little drinking and violence compared to other Islamic nations,....hmmmm.

But seriously, despite the fact the US and Djibouti are very different places, could the whole country of 800k people be weak willed, or is it the legalization of the drug?

[LarryW]

(from akv) But seriously, despite the fact the US and Djibouti are very different places, could the whole country of 800k people be weak willed, or is it the legalization of the drug?

Over simplifying the problems in Djibouti is a temptation in an effort to understand what happened. But, IMO, the problems with Djibouti and many other former colonial states could be sourced to the fact that those countries were nurtured under the consumption of colonial rule for too long. They were taught to wait until someone else tells them what to do. The legalization of drugs contributes to the public lethargy but it's a chicken-or-egg study. Both probably evolved dependent on one another.

(from 02/2009 Rueters article posted by nmap) Mexico risks losing up to 300,000 jobs because of the economic crisis despite a government infrastructure spending programme that can employ some 750,000 people, Economy Minister Gerardo Ruiz Mateos said on Monday.

IMO, a 300,000 job loss in Mexico would have an impact on that country like the loss of a million or more in the US, given the lack of unemployment resources in Mexico and the dependence the economy down there has on foreign investment and the income received by their own ex-pats in the US. Too many single-points of failure.

IMO the stability and predictability of the Mexican Govt is deteriorating quickly, and the postulation in this thread that "illegal aliens" may soon become "refugees" appears to be a credible concern.

[Ret10Echo]

Originally Posted by nmap

Rhetorical Question: Are we prepared, as a nation, to take the actions necessary to stop large-scale movements of desperate people? Personally, I doubt it.

If I were going to actually reply........


1. The United States has a unusual attitude toward an immigrant population unlike most nations across the world. ("They" is "Us")

2. Politicians in the U.S. are too weak-willed to create anything that appears to be a physical barrier to entry...(again the heritage of the U.S., "huddled masses")

3. Mexico and the nations to the South have no reason to attempt to slow the movement North as a majority of those working in the U.S. provide financial support to families in their native country. Stopping this influx of funds would be damaging. This de-facto foreign aid is another political minefield.

Overall I agree with you that there is almost no chance for a national level policy that results in a real barrier to movement into the U.S.. Individual States will take action, but their actions will (obviously) be attacked by the Federal Government.

[LarryW]

1. The United States has a unusual attitude toward an immigrant population unlike most nations across the world. ("They" is "Us")

2. Politicians in the U.S. are too weak-willed to create anything that appears to be a physical barrier to entry...(again the heritage of the U.S., "huddled masses")

3. Mexico and the nations to the South have no reason to attempt to slow the movement North as a majority of those working in the U.S. provide financial support to families in their native country. Stopping this influx of funds would be damaging. This de-facto foreign aid is another political minefield.

Overall I agree with you that there is almost no chance for a national level policy that results in a real barrier to movement into the U.S.. Individual States will take action, but their actions will (obviously) be attacked by the Federal Government.

Concur. There's lack of sufficient motivation to address either the flow of drugs/illegals north or addressing the "political minefield".

[incarcerated]

http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20...rten+in+Mexico

6 killed in shooting near kindergarten in Mexico

The Associated Press
• May 16, 2010
6 killed in shooting near kindergarten in Mexico
MEXICO CITY (AP) — Gunmen killed six men Friday and wounded two more in a drive-by shooting near a kindergarten in a northern Mexico region besieged by drug gang battles....

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http://www.upi.com/Top_News/Internat...7091274097953/

Two headless bodies found in Juarez

Published: May 17, 2010 at 8:05 AM
JUAREZ, Mexico, May 17 (UPI) -- Police worked to identify the decapitated bodies of two men found in the city of Juarez, Mexico, the Juarez state attorney general's office said.

Spokesman Arturo Sandoval said the bodies, found Sunday, had two notes from a drug cartel attached, CNN reported Monday....

[nmap]

Looks as if things are getting worse. Imagine that.


LINK

Excerpt: Caterpillar Inc. is telling its American employees in Mexico, particularly those with children, to return to the United States because of escalating violence there, the company said Thursday.

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by nmap

Looks as if things are getting worse. Imagine that.


LINK

Excerpt: Caterpillar Inc. is telling its American employees in Mexico, particularly those with children, to return to the United States because of escalating violence there, the company said Thursday.

No, no you have it all wrong! Mexico is a shinning example of a progressive Democracy and there are NO problems on the border

[TOMAHAWK9521]

I'm going to toss this hand grenade out there. (hoping it won't get tossed back into my foxhole)

How about we just call everyone coming across the border illegally, refugees?

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by TOMAHAWK9521

I'm going to toss this hand grenade out there. (hoping it won't get tossed back into my foxhole)

How about we just call everyone coming across the border illegally, refugees?

That hand grenade may not be too far off target....

[nmap]

Originally Posted by TOMAHAWK9521

I'm going to toss this hand grenade out there. (hoping it won't get tossed back into my foxhole)

How about we just call everyone coming across the border illegally, refugees?

Truth be told, I think that's an accurate assessment. In time...a couple years, maybe?....it may be seen as prescient.

How the U.S. can cope, and whether it can cope, with large numbers of desperate people is the question. Especially if the situation that drives them here is long-term, such that there is little prospect of their departure.

Neither the public treasury nor private charity will have the capacity to support them. There will be no jobs for them. But sending them back will be a near-equivalent to a death sentence.

And then there are the politics...those are likely to be angry and divisive.

[ZonieDiver]

Originally Posted by nmap

Truth be told, I think that's an accurate assessment. In time...a couple years, maybe?....it may be seen as prescient.

How the U.S. can cope, and whether it can cope, with large numbers of desperate people is the question. Especially if the situation that drives them here is long-term, such that there is little prospect of their departure.

Neither the public treasury nor private charity will have the capacity to support them. There will be no jobs for them. But sending them back will be a near-equivalent to a death sentence.

And then there are the politics...those are likely to be angry and divisive.

Hmmmm! "Refugee camps" right next to the agricultural fields in the SW AZ and SE CA areas.

SF teams to train G's for infil into their homeland to free their nation from corruption!

I have a plan. I am available. The President should call...

[ns1clrk]

I like the Mine Field and refugee camp ideas.

[craigepo]

Here are a couple of interesting nuggets regarding "refugees".

http://www.arlingtonrefugeeservices.com/new_page_3.htm