Special Forces beret flashes

[Richard]

After 1984 SF stndardized the colors so that 1/10 had to go to the 10th Grou color and 5th had to get the VN colors out.

Actually - COL Guest wanted the RVN era colors out of the 5th SFGA flash.

RE: 5th SFG flashes:

• The original 5th SFG flash was all black in 1961.
  
• The 2nd pattern black w/white border (added in 1962) flash was worn but not officially authorized until 1964.
  
• First pattern USASFV (Prov) flash (never authorized) prior to 5th SFG deployment was all yellow with three diagonal red stripes.
  
• The 3rd pattern 5th SFG flash was the black w/white border and diagonal yellow-red-yellow-red-yellow-red-yellow stripes denoting (a) colors of original USASFV flash, (b) colors of early TDY teams from 1st and 7th SFGs and (c) RVN flag.

On 7 Dec 84 COL James Guest, 5th SFG CDR, submitted a request to the Director, Institute of Heraldry, requesting that the official flash of the 5th SFG be changed back to the solid black with white border because:

• The colors of a foreign flag should not be incorporated in a US Army beret flash
• The RVN and the original purpose for having the RVN colors in the flash no longer existed
• The 5th SFG was no longer oriented towards SEA
• The mission and organization of the 5th SFGA had been significantly transformed to meet modern requirements and the change of beret flash would depict that metamorphosis

The request was approved by the Institute of Heraldry on 16 Jan 85 and the official change took place in a ceremony on 6 May 1985.

* Sutherland, Ian. Special Forces of the US Army; 1990.

Richard's $.02

[Last hard class]

Originally Posted by Richard

Actually - COL Guest wanted the RVN era colors out of the 5th SFGA flash.

On 7 Dec 84 COL James Guest, 5th SFG CDR, submitted a request to the Director, Institute of Heraldry, requesting that the official flash of the 5th SFG be changed back to the solid black with white border because:

• The colors of a foreign flag should not be incorporated in a US Army beret flash
• The RVN and the original purpose for having the RVN colors in the flash no longer existed
• The 5th SFG was no longer oriented towards SEA
• The mission and organization of the 5th SFGA had been significantly transformed to meet modern requirements and the change of beret flash would depict that metamorphosis

The request was approved by the Institute of Heraldry on 16 Jan 85.

It is interesting that you would have this information available. A barracks rat that was the COL'S driver/bitchboy had presciently blabbed such nefarious behavior would occur. Claimed to have been within earshot during certain conversations. Group HQ opsec for you.

Poster on the wall:

Top: Think OPSEC

Bottom: Who talked?

Hand written below: Who didn't?


Caused a lot of rumors with negative chatter about our fearless leader. As an enlisted man, I was just happy to know someone up top was keeping their eyes on the important things.

[Richard]

Here's a good one for trivia's sake - the JCRC flash - never authorized - I've got a flash but never saw one of the wing background ovals.

The black is for the nature of the mission and the orange reflective of the VS-17 panel pieces worn on the uniforms (jungle fatigues - upper front pockets and across the back of the shoulders) by the field teams.

Those of us TDY to JCRC wore the USASFT (46th Co) flash.

Here's an interesting web-site to browse:

http://www.military-insignia.us/Page...Insignia.html#

Richard

[Last hard class]

Originally Posted by Richard

Here's a good one for trivia's sake - the JCRC flash - never authorized - I've got a flash but never saw one of the wing background ovals.

How exactly does an unauthorized flash come to life?

[Richard]

How exactly does an unauthorized flash come to life?

The command comes up with a proposal to be submitted for approval - while awaiting 'official' approval, either unit $$ purchase and issue or individual purchase of the proposed flash is done and the unit begins wearing it until told to stop or authorized and it continues.

Richard

[Dozer523]

Originally Posted by Richard

while awaiting 'official' approval, . . . is done and the unit begins . . . until told to stop or authorized and it continues. Richard

Like so many things my kids do. Explains why the corgy looked like a poodle and was sorta green two weeks ago. Poor dog thinks her name is WTF!!?!

[Green Light]

Does anyone have the FANK Training Command flash? I had a copy (it was close but wrong). I'd like to see what a real one looked like.

[Combat Diver]

Originally Posted by Richard

Actually - COL Guest wanted the RVN era colors out of the 5th SFGA flash.

RE: 5th SFG flashes:

• The original 5th SFG flash was all black in 1961.
  
• The 2nd pattern black w/white border (added in 1962) flash was worn but not officially authorized until 1964.
  
• First pattern USASFV (Prov) flash (never authorized) prior to 5th SFG deployment was all yellow with three diagonal red stripes.
  
• The 3rd pattern 5th SFG flash was the black w/white border and diagonal yellow-red-yellow-red-yellow-red-yellow stripes denoting (a) colors of original USASFV flash, (b) colors of early TDY teams from 1st and 7th SFGs and (c) RVN flag.

On 7 Dec 84 COL James Guest, 5th SFG CDR, submitted a request to the Director, Institute of Heraldry, requesting that the official flash of the 5th SFG be changed back to the solid black with white border because:

• The colors of a foreign flag should not be incorporated in a US Army beret flash
• The RVN and the original purpose for having the RVN colors in the flash no longer existed
• The 5th SFG was no longer oriented towards SEA
• The mission and organization of the 5th SFGA had been significantly transformed to meet modern requirements and the change of beret flash would depict that metamorphosis

The request was approved by the Institute of Heraldry on 16 Jan 85.

* Sutherland, Ian. Special Forces of the US Army; 1990.

Richard's $.02

5th Group didn't official change until later that spring of 85' (Apr or May). I had been assigned to C/1/5 in Dec 84 with the old RVN flash and was one of 20 folks from 1/5 to stand in the formal flash changing ceremony later that spring. Ceremony was conducted in front of the "Bronze Bruce Statue". We wore the old flash, than was given the command to "Uncover", heritage read then commanded to "Recover" Later in June I went to CDQC with the new flash.

[Irishsquid]

Don't know if it's correct or not, but I'm told that 20th SFG(A) used to have a solid blue flash. The diagonal red stripe was "awarded," by 7th SFG(A) as they are the active duty component responsible for the same AOR/mission.

Once again, I don't know if it's true or not...that's just how it was explained to me. Seemed strange, since that would mean 19th and 20th Groups had the same flash before...

Originally Posted by Irishsquid

Don't know if it's correct or not, but I'm told that 20th SFG(A) used to have a solid blue flash. The diagonal red stripe was "awarded," by 7th SFG(A) as they are the active duty component responsible for the same AOR/mission.

Once again, I don't know if it's true or not...that's just how it was explained to me. Seemed strange, since that would mean 19th and 20th Groups had the same flash before...

All* USAR and ARNG SFGs wore the blue w/white border flash, prior to 1967

* 2nd, 9th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 16th, 17th, 19th, 20th, 21st, 24th SF Groups, and the 38th SF Company.

By 1967 all but the 11th, 12th, 19th, and 20th Grps, and the 38th Co. had been inactivated

In '67 the 11th switch to what they currently use, but without the white border, which was added in 1992.

That same year the 19th started wearing a Naugahyde flash (aqua or blue).

In 1972 the 12th went to it's distinctive lightening bolt flash.

The 20th wore a couple of unauthorized flashes before being authorized it's current flash. The red bend represents it's association with 7th Grp, where the 20th Grps, AD Advisors came from

38th Company got it's own flash in 1976, the year it was inactivated.