Jesus at The Mall - Page 2

Green Light · 03-11-2010, 06:00

How about a pen of cute little piglets at the front door? No further problems.

Joe_Snuffy · 03-11-2010, 23:59

Sadly she reminds me of those extreme leftist nuts. The same ones that want to remove 'In God We Trust' from our money and take 'Under God' from the Pledge of Allegiance.

Dozer523 · 03-12-2010, 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe_Snuffy

Sadly she reminds me of those extreme leftist nuts. The same ones that want to remove 'In God We Trust' from our money and take 'Under God' from the Pledge of Allegiance.

the Ninth circuit Court ruled yesterday that "under God" was not a violation of the Church and State clause.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...bRloQD9ED0HJO0 This from the Ninth Circuit Court
". . . human sacrifice, dog and cats living together, mass hysteria!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3ZOKDmorj0

Richard · 03-12-2010, 06:45

Quote:

...the Ninth circuit Court ruled yesterday that "under God" was not a violation of the Church and State clause.

Personally - I agree with their decision...as long as we don't get into defining just whose God we're talking about beyond that of the Founding Fathers who wrote:

...the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them...

And so it goes...

Richard's $.02

Joe_Snuffy · 03-12-2010, 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by NORMAL550GIRL

Are we migrating into a separation of church and state discussion? Oh good.

Not to get too personal but I am neither Christian nor have a "god" of any kind , but the "In God We Trust' stuff --- that's just part of our history. I would think that there are plenty other larger fish to fry than to go after a few words in the Pledge of Allegiance or on our money. It's just silly.

The right wingers that want to bring God into everything -- well they worry me. I don't want religion in my government because I don't want government in my religion. These are two tastes that do not taste good together.

Separation of church and state was to keep the church from making laws that governed the country and to keep laws from being created that governed religion nothing more.

Oh wait. Let me retract that. That is just the most resonable interpretation that I know of in our modern day and age.

And personally I'd rather trust a higher power that is reportedly infallible than Congress. Just sayin'.

Little Edit: Anyone ever get that lovely chain email about ACLU being upset that there was a picture of service members praying [it was most likely for a ceremony of some kind]? And how we should pray on our own time? I was thinking about that today. You see, since I get paid salary, that means I'm being paid twenty-four hours a day, everyday of the year regardless what I'm doing. Since I'm being paid, that means I'm on the clock.

So when is my own time?

Richard · 03-12-2010, 09:44

Quote:

I'd rather trust a higher power that is reportedly infallible than Congress.

Let me know when you find one - the myths and rumors are killing us.

Richard's jaded $.02

x SF med · 03-12-2010, 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by akv

Absolutely, let's deport her to Weehawken, or Hoboken, or ... Rutherford

They blast Bon Jovi where she is from.

I used to live in Rutherford... the indig up there blast whatever the hell they want... from Mario Lanza to Sinatra to Hip-Hop to the new home grown boys Springsteen and Bon Jovi... Jerseyites are equal opportunity offenders ...

Fuggeddaboudit.

As to the original point of this thread - if she doesn't like the music, go somewhere else to shop.

Richard · 03-12-2010, 10:03

Quote:

As to the original point of this thread - if she doesn't like the music, go somewhere else to shop.

She must've been the only person in the mall not wearing an i-POD and walking around in their own world who could have heard the music coming from the store.

Richard

SF-TX · 03-12-2010, 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by NORMAL550GIRL

The right wingers that want to bring God into everything -- well they worry me. I don't want religion in my government because I don't want government in my religion. These are two tastes that do not taste good together.

Would you consider the Founders right wingers?

Quote:

John Adams
1776 — Thoughts on Government

It is the duty of all men in society, publicly, and at stated seasons, to worship the SUPREME BEING, the great Creator and Preserver of the universe. And no subject shall be hurt, molested, or restrained, in his person, liberty, or estate, for worshipping GOD in the manner most agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience; or for his religious profession or sentiments; provided he doth not disturb the public peace, or obstruct others in their religious worship.
Reference: The Works of John Adams, Charles Adams, ed., 221.

Thomas Jefferson
1781 — Notes on the State of Virginia, Query 18

And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever.
Reference: Our Sacred Honor, Bennett (352)

James Madison
1785 — A Memorial and Remonstrance

It is the duty of every man to render to the Creator such homage, and such only, as he believes to be acceptable to him. This duty is precedent both in order of time and degree of obligation, to the claims of Civil Society. Before any man can be considered as a member of Civil Society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governor of the Universe.
Reference: Our Sacred Honor, Bennett (327)

Benjamin Franklin
1787 — Motion for Prayers in the Constitutional Convention

And have we now forgotten that powerful Friend? or do we imagine we no longer need its assistance? I have lived, Sir, a long time; and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this Truth, that God governs in the Affairs of Men. And if a Sparrow cannot fall to the Ground without his Notice, is it probable that an Empire can rise without his Aid?
Reference: Franklin Collected Works, Lemay, ed., 1138.

George Washington
1783 — circular letter of farewell to the Army

I now make it my earnest prayer, that God would have you, and the State over which you preside, in his holy protection, that he would incline the hearts of the Citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to Government, to entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another, for their fellow Citizens of the United States at large, and particularly for their brethren who have served in the Field, and finally, that he would most graciously be pleased to dispose us all, to do Justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that Charity, humility and pacific temper of mind, which were the Characteristicks of the Divine Author of our blessed Religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things, we can never hope to be a happy Nation.
Reference: George Washington: A Collection, W.B. Allen, ed. (249)

Alexander Hamilton

To grant that there is a supreme intelligence who rules the world and has established laws to regulate the actions of his creatures; and still to assert that man, in a state of nature, may be considered as perfectly free from all restraints of law and government, appears to a common understanding altogether irreconcilable. Good and wise men, in all ages, have embraced a very dissimilar theory. They have supposed that the deity, from the relations we stand in to himself and to each other, has constituted an eternal and immutable law, which is indispensably obligatory upon all mankind, prior to any human institution whatever. This is what is called the law of nature....Upon this law depend the natural rights of mankind.

John Adams
1798 — Address to the Military

We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
Reference: America's God and Country (10-11)

John Adams
1776 — letter to Zabdiel Adams

Statesmen my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for Liberty, but it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand....The only foundation of a free Constitution, is pure Virtue, and if this cannot be inspired into our People, in a great Measure, than they have it now, They may change their Rulers, and the forms of Government, but they will not obtain a lasting Liberty.
Reference: Our Sacred Honor, Bennett, pg. 371.

Don · 03-12-2010, 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by SF-TX

Would you consider the Founders right wingers?

Depends on the spectrum. If you mean the political spectrum...which political theorist do you draw on to define right and left?

If the definition of right and left is concerning government control of the people with left being total control and right as having no control...ABSOLUTELY...they were right wingers.

If you use Communism vs fascism...different story. I think that is what most folks understand as right and left. In this case (IMHO) the founders didn't even fall in the spectrum.

Don · 03-12-2010, 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by NORMAL550GIRL

I don't think we can go back to the Founders for everything. They are dead and gone. We have to proceed to the best of our ability on what we think and want for our society and government.

Certainly the Founders were Christian, and we can follow the letter of what they said -- or we can follow the spirit in which they said it. People came here for religious freedom, in order to worship the way they wanted -- not the way the government told them.

So...you want us to progress past what the founding fathers have established? It is old and antiquated thought that is just not pertinent today? After all, they are "dead" and all that. Additionally, who gets to determine what the "spirit" of their ideas are?

You might be sadly disappointed in your own view if I was the decider.

Don · 03-12-2010, 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by NORMAL550GIRL

The Constituion and laws have to be living, breathing things that can progress with the times. My point is that if we keep looking back to the FFs, we end up with exactly what you said: old and antiquated thought that is not pertinent today.

Following that logic...personal freedom and liberty may just become another old, antiquated thought not pertinent today.

Bad idea to cherry-pick what should be included/excluded from the constitution.

When it comes to constitutional law...little things are big things.

Defion69 · 03-12-2010, 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by NORMAL550GIRL

I don't think we can go back to the Founders for everything. They are dead and gone. We have to proceed to the best of our ability on what we think and want for our society and government.

Certainly the Founders were Christian, and we can follow the letter of what they said -- or we can follow the spirit in which they said it. People came here for religious freedom, in order to worship the way they wanted -- not the way the government told them.

Well put! You are no sheeple

**The Reaper** · 03-12-2010, 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by NORMAL550GIRL

I don't think we can go back to the Founders for everything. They are dead and gone. We have to proceed to the best of our ability on what we think and want for our society and government.

Certainly the Founders were Christian, and we can follow the letter of what they said -- or we can follow the spirit in which they said it. People came here for religious freedom, in order to worship the way they wanted -- not the way the government told them.

So, you are in favor of judicial activism and the reinterpretation of the Constitution by judges?

TR

Richard · 03-12-2010, 11:53

Quote:

Certainly the Founders were Christian, and we can follow the letter of what they said...

http://earlyamericanhistory.net/founding_fathers.htm

http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/s...7/secular.html

And so it goes...

Richard