Navy intends to let women serve on subs.........

[greenberetTFS]

I remember a true story I read regarding the Israeli Army during a tense battle in the 1967 war where the Egyptians or the Syrians had just forth a battle and had lost to the Israeli troops...... When they found out it was a unit that consisted of female soldiers,many "committed suicide" because of the shame they felt by losing to the women.........If I'm not mistaken it's one of the books I sent out to one of the guys last year,I believe it's titled "Tip of the Spear",but not certain..... Anyway, it's an interesting thought......... I don't believe a women would be able to cut it on an a ODA team,even if she would have somehow passed SFQC....... Just my opinion,an old fart that served "before women" were in the 82nd,11th or 101st Airborne....... Direct question to our super ladies out there is simply this,do you believe women should be able to serve on a SF ODA team.....


Big Teddy

Originally Posted by greenberetTFS

II don't believe a women would be able to cut it on an a ODA team,even if she would have somehow passed SFQC....... Just my opinion,an old fart that served "before women" were in the 82nd or 11th Airborne....... Direct question to our super ladies out there is simply this,do you believe women should be able to serve on a SF ODA team..... )

Direct anwser...an all woman ODA...yep.

With this caveat. There are standards and rules already in place. To 'dumb' them down for a woman would be a disservice to both genders. If they want in, then they play by the big boy rules, or don't play period. NO whining, bitching or expecting quarter. Any woman going for selection should expect to be assessed just like thier male counterparts and held to the same standard. However, with the current male bias in place. Even if they really did qualify, they would not be selected.

Mixed ODA's...no, but an all woman might be doable, emphasis on might.

Teddy darlin' I believe we have had this conversation already in another thread. You really want to stir the pot doncha?
AM

[Richard]

Groovy, man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI5WsZ1HwS4

And so it goes...

Richard's jaded $.02

[mark46th]

Maybe equality will kick in and instead of the women on subs taking birth control, the guys will have have vasectomies...

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by Richard

SSBN 68

Do you have in mind a joke that ends "...and I'll owe you one"?

If there is a W.J. Clinton class of boats, there will be ample opportunities for new tactics including:

• the 'pretend you don't know me',
• the 'we can be together',
• the 'hide under the desk',
• the 'blue dress',
• the 'trip to the dry cleaners', and
• the 'it depends on what it is'.

[Richard]

Do you have in mind a joke that ends "...and I'll owe you one"?

You caught me!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx2-FrVHhW4

Now what could go wrong with such a plan?

Richard

[LongWire]

Originally Posted by greenberetTFS

Direct question to our super ladies out there is simply this,do you believe women should be able to serve on a SF ODA team.....

I think when people talk about ODA's they tend to miss the difference when comparing to a lot of Combat MOS's. The point being that we end up dealing with other peoples of differing social/religious practices, and in many cases have to maintain rapport and lead these people.

Personally I can't see it, and professionally I can't fathom seeing a Female ODA Commander break bread with the tribal council let alone talk them through strenuous negotiations. Some might buy off, but not all. Forget about having the Taliban at the table. Let's not even start the talk of all female ODA. I think it's hard enough keeping all the right numbers of guys/Mos's on for every thing that comes down the pipe let alone having it be the female medic that I can't take with because she is female or worse.

Just my 2 cents but submitted for your consideration. Hate to say it but, its a man's world, even if it isn't in the US.

[brown77]

Originally Posted by greenberetTFS

I remember a true story I read regarding the Israeli Army during a tense battle in the 1967 war where the Egyptians or the Syrians had just forth a battle and had lost to the Israeli troops...... When they found out it was a unit that consisted of female soldiers,many "committed suicide" because of the shame they felt by losing to the women.........If I'm not mistaken it's one of the books I sent out to one of the guys last year,I believe it's titled "Tip of the Spear",but not certain..... Anyway, it's an interesting thought......... I don't believe a women would be able to cut it on an a ODA team,even if she would have somehow passed SFQC....... Just my opinion,an old fart that served "before women" were in the 82nd,11th or 101st Airborne....... Direct question to our super ladies out there is simply this,do you believe women should be able to serve on a SF ODA team.....

Thanks for your question Big Teddy... You sound like a true Gent, we like that

I am probably a little biased seeing as in my next life I've put in a request to return as a devastatingly handsome guy, with aspirations of being an SF Soldier, or Commander of a Navy ship (submarines aren't my thing). Sticking with the current existence though, we really are wired differently, physically and emotionally! Your average woman probably could not withstand the rigors and training of SF, but I am thinking it could be a good idea to put together some kind of Special Unit - Israeli style - comprised of female soldiers who could be deployed to collaborate with SF on missions requiring their unique talents. Women have SO much to contribute to society... that includes the military. I am a huge advocate of equal rights. However, I wholly acknowledge and embrace our differences.

Originally Posted by Gypsy

OH, it's true. Can you even begin to imagine? No offense to all the women here, seeing as I am one myself, but my God it would be PMS on steriods times a gazillion.

I stand by this theory! 100% female (wo)manned sub is a bad idea! Muscle mass, testosterone and cold hard logic would probably come in handy when you're submerged for six months straight. Still giving thought to the notion of a mixed sub...

Originally Posted by Gypsy

I've written a few bubble heads in the past, this would not be a good idea IMO.

UGH! Tell me about it! PMS is a b***h! Saying that, it has been known to work to my advantage at the office. There's no messing with me when I'm in that kinda mood... it's all YESSSS MA'AM!

BTW did you know that 'bubblehead' is also a slang term for submariner?! Funny that!

[charlietwo]

As a recruiter, the question of females in combat MOS' is often brought up... typically from a scornful look from a potential female (sometimes male) applicant. The simple way I explain it is this --

You know how a group of type A males acts when they're together and around each other at all times? Have you have seen what happens when a girl or two walks into the room for just a few moments (they don't even have to be remotely attractive, just feminine-looking)? The guys start beating their chests and acting like goofballs to do whatever it takes to get the girls attention. Now-- Introduce live rounds flying past your head during this. Sexual tension leads to DISTRACTIONS which is the key word. When lives are on the line and people are trying to kill you, distractions can and will get people killed.

After saying this I can literally watch the light-bulb turn on above the persons head -- they understand because they have seen it.

afchic- Does this make it the guys fault? Absolutely. Just like with Adam and Eve... Eve tempted Adam and Adam was not strong enough to rebuke Eve for her mistake, as a result, everyone lost. Males typically fail with women because they are not strong enough to withstand the inevitable temptations that accompany women (sex, fighting, etc). Call it sexist if you will, but I welcome a challenge to this opinion.

[Richard]

Does this make it the guys fault? Absolutely. Just like with Adam and Eve... Eve tempted Adam and Adam was not strong enough to rebuke Eve for her mistake, as a result, everyone lost. Males typically fail with women because they are not strong enough to withstand the inevitable temptations that accompany women (sex, fighting, etc). Call it sexist if you will, but I welcome a challenge to this opinion.

Gawd...not another one of those Davy Crockett tales.

And so it goes...

Richard's jaded $.02

[Dozer523]

Originally Posted by charlietwo

afchic- Does this make it the guys fault? Absolutely. Just like with Adam and Eve... Eve tempted Adam and Adam was not strong enough to rebuke Eve for her mistake, as a result, everyone lost. Males typically fail with women because they are not strong enough to withstand the inevitable temptations that accompany women (sex, fighting, etc). Call it sexist if you will, but I welcome a challenge to this opinion.

Oh BULLSH!T. That's why there's fishin'

[LJ19]

Are there any cultures where an all-female ODA might be more successful winning over members compared to males ?

Originally Posted by Broadsword2004

One question, but is there also a hygiene issue with regards to women in combat MOS's...? Like a man can go weeks without showering in the field, but with women, if they don't keep their private area clean, bad things start to happen...?

Baby Wipes.

[Sten]

Originally Posted by Broadsword2004

One question, but is there also a hygiene issue with regards to women in combat MOS's...? Like a man can go weeks without showering in the field, but with women, if they don't keep their private area clean, bad things start to happen...?



Just speculating, I am thinking the Amazon tribe, but they are gone now.

You need to date a returned Peace Corps girl.

[brown77]

Originally Posted by NORMAL550GIRL

I certainly have known my share of men who were crazy Aholes 365 days a year.

Yah, but that's a different kind of crazy

True, women's menstrual experiences and symptoms do vary. However, having grown up in a house full of women (me being one of them), and having spent three years working on a floor full of women (me being one of them), I have found that there is a very different energy and dynamic that generates from females when they are grouped together for lengthy periods (pardon the pun) of time. It does get crazy at times.

Indeed, you could say the same about large 'packs' or groups of men. If you want to look at this scientifically and in seriousness, there is definitely a lot more going on beneath the surface when it comes to group gender dynamics.