What's a Degree Really Worth?

Originally Posted by armymom1228

It's not necessarily what ya got, its what you do with it.

OTOH Is money an aphrodisiac?

[Ret10Echo]

Originally Posted by HowardCohodas

No, grasshopper! or are you pulling my leg.

B.G. = Bill Gates

[surfcolt]

You certainly don't need a degree to be smart. Bill Gates is proof of that, but then again Bill did go to Harvard and is a genius and started his own company. 99% of the people are not Bill Gates.

What this article does not take into consideration are 2 things in my estimation.
1. There are companies and jobs out there that have a requirement for a degree. If you do not have a degree you simply will not pass through the HR resume NAZIs. In this day of increased competition for jobs you need every single box checked just to get invited to the dance.

2. The long term salaries are clearly not adjusted for. People with 15-20 years in a particular field who are upwardly mobile are doing far better than the statistics would bear out. I work in the software field. The stats would show averages at about 50-70k, however, my experience is that is the starting point in the high tech space. At my company the average salary is easily over 100k.

I would never recommend that someone put themselves at a disadvantage by not having a degree. It is not a guarantee to intelligence, riches, or even a job. But, it is a necessity, unless you are the type that can start and run your own business.

In this day and age of globalization we need "MORE" educated people, not less. People graduating college today are competing against people from overseas for that same job. Companies will invest where the talent-cost benefits come from. We don't need liberal arts majors, we need engineers, medical experts, financial experts and scientists.

[Slantwire]

Originally Posted by surfcolt

We don't need liberal arts majors, we need engineers, medical experts, financial experts and scientists.

That's a pretty critical discriminator. The originally posted article did not differentiate between the electrical engineer and the History of 20th-Century Art major.

[mojaveman]

Originally Posted by HowardCohodas

Just a thought...

The richest man in the world left college without getting his degree to start his business. Two extra points if you know who it is without using a search engine.

Most of the successful men that I have met in my life didn't go to college. They learned from the school of hard knocks. They succeded because they had common sense, they worked hard, and they understood business.

[Dozer523]

We Ameraicans do love the story of the self-made man.
Malcom Gladwell has written four books that explore sucess in America. The Tipping Point, Blink, Outliers and What the Dog Saw are his explorations of the phenomenom. I cannot recommend these books to highly.
Particularly, in Outliers Gladwell makes a very strong case that sucess in America has Who you know (Who can provide you with opportunities) When you were born (What opportunities were available to you) and practice (The magic number seems to be 10,000 hours -- regardless of your choice of endevor).
Bill Gates was the son of affluelnt parents who sent him to a forward thinking private High School just when Computers were coming into public attention. On of the other student's parent was part of a (to fail) computer start up. They donated a terminal to the school. They didn't care that their son and his friends took advantage of unused computer time at night. That is where Bill Gates got his 10,000 hours.

Of course IBM also told Bill, sure keep the software, we're a hardware company.

I just stumbled across his blog. I haven't looked at it much (but it will earn at least a temporary bookmark) I offere it for your review. http://gladwell.typepad.com/

[Pete]

Anyone had a plumber or electrician stop by the house lately?

How about a Heating and A/C guy?

Car worked on?

[mojaveman]

Originally Posted by Pete

Anyone had a plumber or electrician stop by the house lately?

How about a Heating and A/C guy?

Car worked on?

Excellent point Pete,

I know a guy who owns and operates a septic pumping truck. He makes a lot of money at it too. It's a dirty and smelly job that no one else wants to do.

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by Pete

Car worked on?

FWIW, the last mechanic I hired earned his bachelor's degree at Harvard. And like just about every other auto mechanic in Burbank, he was just getting by.

These discussions boil down into those who think having a degree is not such a bad thing and those who think otherwise. I think these discussions would go a bit better if there were less aloofness from both sides. YMMV.

Some of the smartest and most successful people I know have degrees as do some of the most moronic. (And much of the time, I put myself in the latter category.) Conversely, I've learned enduring lessons from men and women who never set foot on a college campus.

Knowledge is where you find it.

My rambling, uncaffeinated $0.02.

[PedOncoDoc]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

Some of the smartest and most successful people I know have degrees as do some of the most moronic...Knowledge is where you find it.

I 100% agree. Some of the most valuable lessons/things I've learned were while working my uncles' farms during my summers as a young lad, and while bouncing/bartending/waiting tables during college. As far as medicine goes, most of the learning is on the job once you get out of the classroom, and some of the best lessons learned have been over a pint with older docs after a rough day.

[Buffalobob]

I grew up in rural Alabama and was born with a gift for math. I got a degree in physics just as the Aerospace industry crashed in the late 60s. My degree was totally, completely worthless. Nobody was hiring guys with a BS in Physics when you could get PhDs a dime a dozen. I made about $318 a month as a 2Lt in the infantry and people hated me for what I did. Just the times we lived in.

When I came back and got out of the army, I knew two things. I was really good at shooting people but there was no job openings anymore for that work and I was going to get a degree so I could spend some my work time outdoors. My choices were either going to Auburn University and getting a degree in wildlife management or staying with Bear Bryant and getting a degree in Environmental Engineering right at the peak of the environmental workforce build up.

Money to be made was never a factor in my decision on which degree. The decision was based solely on personal enjoyment of the work to be done. And I have immensely enjoyed it.

And yes, after I get through twisting a pipe into a pretzel it is good to have a plumber come who actually knows what to do with a wrench.

I do happen to know how to hitch up a mule and plow a field and pick cotton if need be.

Originally Posted by Dozer523

http://gladwell.typepad.com/

Thanks much for the link. I am also a fan, but was not aware of the blog.

Originally Posted by mojaveman

Most of the successful men that I have met in my life didn't go to college. They learned from the school of hard knocks. They succeded because they had common sense, they worked hard, and they understood business.

I chose "richest man in the world" to be provocative. Provocative, in the sense of encouraging Socratic dialog. Wealth, success and intelligence are not metrics devoid of context nor disconnected from values. YMMV

[Surf n Turf]

What’s a degree really worth
I think we should have defined our terms first in this thread – What is “worth”
I have reread the thread, and think it took “Degree” into 4 directions

Is a Degree an employment selection requirement
Is a Degree a money maker when you are employed
Does a degree make you “successful”
Does a Degree help you “learn”

Employment Selection Requirement
It’s a fact - Many jobs today require a degree (any degree) just to get into the selection process (especially at the entry-level). No Degree – No Job.
Other jobs require a “specific” degree to enter a profession. No specialized Degree, No Job.
If your preferred field of employment does not require a degree – No problem, you get the job.

Money Maker
See Penn’s post #16.-- In many cases, typically for those entering the job market, a degree or equivalent starts you off with a better “base pay” on which to build upon. Conversely, those that change jobs or careers later in life (with heavy experience, and a good known reputation) can make substantially more that those who have “worked their way up the ladder”. The HR Department will NOT approve a 60% increase in your salary, but they have no problem with a new hire at 160% of your salary.

Success
Much of the thread has dealt with financial success, because that is the yardstick we use in America. Supported by Dictionary Definitions --somebody successful: somebody who is wealthy, famous, or powerful because of a record of achievement. Impressive achievement, especially the attainment of fame, wealth, or power.
I’m not sure that is the correct tool to gauge success, or a life’s body of work. I tend to think that each person defines their own “success”, because like a fine diamond, life has many facets, and wealth, fame or power may not fit your definition. YMMV

Learning
Today opsimathy is not frowned upon, and we have resources never before available to view the greatest libraries of the world, read the great philosophers, study world shattering engineering feats --- and all for free (via the internet).
Does higher education in your youth make you more learned. Certainly in the sphere of your studies, and by osmosis the desire to learn. But is that unique to the University – don’t think so. Take a job as a roustabout on a Texas oil rig, or a short order cook, or a deck hand on a freighter, or a soldier – You are also more learned in those spheres of your “studies”.

Net – Net ---Success is what / where you find it. A degree or no degree, does not define your Worth
SnT

[Dozer523]

Originally Posted by Surf n Turf

Learning
Today opsimathy is not frowned upon, and we have resources never before available to view the greatest libraries of the world, read the great philosophers, study world shattering engineering feats --- and all for free (via the internet).
SnT

That is a good new word, (been guilty for a looooong time), Thanks!
opsimathy.
1. a late education.
2. the process of acquiring education late in life.