bullpup M-14/M1A concept

[Animal8526]

That RFB was a hell of a nice gun to shoot at dead horse... Until it broke. Lorax is trying to offload it now, apparently. Poor kid.

I'll cut the gun some slack, because I think his was ser # 115 or something low like that... But Kel-tec needs to sort out those reliability issues in a big way if those rifles are ever to be taken seriously. Great design, they just need to follow through.

Also, there's some talk on KTOG about accuracy issues using factory ammo... 3-4 MOA is norm, apparently.

Btw streck, nice to see you here man. Looks like you and I travel around (though not always in) similar circles.

[regular guy]

I understand the purpose for having a bullpup design for the M-1/14, as it is extremely awkward to clear close quarters/corners/dead space with all that barrel. It would be a huge benefit for shooters to have that capability. But here is my experience working that weapons system:

Doing mag changes on a M-4 is easy, for many reasons. 1: Mag well guides the mag in so you can do the change without taking your eyes off target. 2: Having the functions of the weapon, bolt, chamber and so forth right in front of your face makes immediate action drills cake. Bolt doesn't return forward? Cant your hand slightly left and take a quick look-see into the ejection port while looking downrange in your peripherals. It's all in front of you. Same thing with the M-14, but there are more things to consider. One being that under extreme stress doing a mag change on that gun gums up a lot of shooters. I have had to do a combat reload and my hands were shaking from the adrenaline. Getting that empty out was easy, putting a new one in took a conscious effort, lining up that catch just right and slipping the latch in seemed to take an eternity. If you ever have to do a stress shoot with one, you will have a slight idea what the feeling is like.

With that being said, I love having the action in front of my eyes to see it. If you get hung up loading with a bullpup, your problems just became compounded. Instead of looking down the gun, you are now looking down at the ground. In CQB, that's a death sentence.

Thank God the SCAR-H is inbound. Hopefully it answers these concerns.

[Streck-Fu]

Originally Posted by Animal8526

That RFB was a hell of a nice gun to shoot at dead horse... Until it broke. Lorax is trying to offload it now, apparently. Poor kid.

I thought they took care of him on that....I'll ask him. Thanks for the update.

I'll caveat my opinion that it was great when I was shooting it...

[Justaguy]

3 quick thoughts about a bullpup M1A/M14...

First, it's already been done...Anyone whose old enough to have been reading G&A, SOF, SWAT etc in the late '80s-to-early '90s will remember the ad from some obscure company (the name escapes me, but now I'll have something to bug me for the next week or so...) selling "Drop-in" style bullpup stock kits for about $199 each. They had only a few models, all shown in the ad (which was ubiquitous to every issue of those old magazines, along side the ads for crap like nato switchblades, spetznaz shooting knives, and bushpilot wings)..mini-14/30, 10-22, M1A. A cosmetically altered for the silver screen version of that company's product was used as the primary weapon system in the mid-90's movie adaptation of Robert Heinlien's "Starship Troopers". Watch it again, and pause it on some close-ups of the weapons they use...you'll see it.

Second, If you bought an M1A/M14 to be an entry gun, close quarters work gun, or a modifiable high caliber compact, then you either bought the wrong tool for the job, or you're probably giving the wrong job to the tool. The M1A/M14 is a great battle rifle. It's strong, sturdy, accurate, and powerful. However, the M1A/M14 should be viewed as what it really is...a detachable box magazine version of the M1 Garand chambered for the NATO standard 7.62x51mm round (yes, very similar to the Italian Baretta BM-59).
Slap a bipod and a scope on it, and it'll go to town all day long for you.
Throw a sling on it as is and hike a mountain trail and you'll have the comforting feeling of knowing you can throw hot lead effectively to the next ridgeline over.
Take it on a North American hunt for any game on the continent (yes, Grizzly, Elk, and Polar's too...Even though I'd feel a little better with it's .30-06 M1Garand pappy...)and you'll bring home whatever you can effectively hit.

But to chop the barrel, slap on a gangster grip and a red dot and try to take a door with it? Seriously?

....Will it work? Probably, it's that good of a system, but is it the best tool for the job/ or is the job right for the tool. How many times have you seen your ol' lady pounding a nail in the wall with the ass-end of a screwdriver...Did the nail go in? Sure, but was it the "right job for the tool"?

Finally, If you're looking for a high caliber compact to do whatever it is you might need to do with a high caliber compact you're better off starting with something that was built to be just such a thing...maybe an H&K 51, or one of DSA's OSW FAL-variants, or just a simple Kalashnikov, or even an AR chambered in 7.62x39. Heck, at the ranges you'd be using a 7.62x51 compact at the TGT isn't going to feel much difference between 147gr and 168gr of speeding hot .30 cal lead punching it's way through them.

In summation, why go through such ridiculous legnths to take a tool designed perfectly well for one job and try to shoehorn it into another role that already has perfectly good tools available for it.