Soldier suspended from school

[Bill Harsey]

This kind of thing makes my head hurt. Did he have a jack handle or tire iron in the car too?

to paraphrase NousDefionsDoc, if anyone cuts me with a two inch blade and I find out about it...

Originally Posted by Richard

Another supporting example of the Theory of Unintended Consequences.

The Zero Tolerance legislation related to weapons, drugs, bullying, and violence in schools came about in response by legislators, state education agencies, and school boards/administrators to the demands of parents, so-called "Safe Schools" organizations, and their attorneys regarding their dissatisfaction over the handling of such matters on an individual basis and an idea that some form of 'standardized' process would provide a better solution for all concerned. This idea runs contrary to our legal system - under which extenuating and mitigating circumstances are to be considered when adjudicating such matters - and has since proven to be nearly as large a problem as the original issues it was supposed to correct.

This case of the honor student with the small pocket knife in his glove compartment is a good example; we have discussed others on this web-site.

Right or wrong - the lad broke the 'rules' in existence, and I am sure he and his parents signed a form at the beginning of the school year stating they understood and would abide by those rules. What would happen for breaking the 'rules' at the USMA where he wants to go?

And so it goes...

Richard's $.02

While I agree with, to a point, what you are saying. I am aware of other cases, one the dtr of a QP and the other my own kid, who both ran afoul of 'educators' who abused their position to go overboard instead of using simple logic in dealing with the kids. Both kids faced permanent explusion over simple hearesay. The 'zero tolerace' policy is not only abused, it is also used when they feel the need to do so. I Have seen scenarios such as the above and my kid and the QP's dtr, all were honor students with no history of problems. Yet a kid who is designated, some verson of EH or involved in the special ed program due to emotional 'difficulties' allowed to get away with things that would have had the aforementioned students permenently expelled. It is a double standard system in some repsects.

a pocket knife in his glove box....puhleeze.
He is a boy scout, they are 'supposed' to be 'prepared'.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Richard

What would happen for breaking the 'rules' at the USMA where he wants to go?

For anything short of an honor violation, he'd walk hours comensurate to the degree of infraction (during the little "free" time he had on the weekend) to serve as a deterrent to repeating the behavior in the future. He would not be suspended, nor would a solitary rule violation have any appreciable effect on his graduation or commission. Even an honor violation would be judged with the totality of the circumstances in mind, and may result in a lesser punishment than expulsion should the situation warrant. Sounds to me like he wants to study in an environment far less reactionary (and spineless) than his current situation.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Bill Harsey

This kind of thing makes my head hurt. Did he have a jack handle or tire iron in the car too?

More importantly, didn't he already have the keys to a weapon weighing several thousand pounds and having the ability to travel at 80+ mph, which could easily kill dozens of people in a handful of seconds? Talk about ignoring the 600lb gorilla in the room.

[Richard]

Too many things we don't know about the situation - policies and how they've been enforced in the past, family vs school administration, community and state ed issues, previous incidents, etc.

As a private school, we declared such offenses 'could' result in suspension or dismissal - and tried to use common sense on a case-by-case basis when dealing with such matters.

As a part of the contract parents signed with the school, they gave us permission to search their children's backpack, person (not a strip search), and vehicle. We took their turst seriously and I never conducted a search (except for periodic random inspections of lockers or such) without valid probable cause. I never had a law suit brought against me, either.

We also brought a dog through the school 6-8 times per year for unannounced inspections of vehicles in the parking lot, lockers, common areas, class rooms, offices, etc. Only thing we ever found were a few periodic loose rounds under car seats or in a backpack in vehicles of students who had been out hunting at a ranch or such - I once found a hunting knife in a pickup which also had a couple of loose shotgun shells because the kid had been hunting the weekend before. I'd collect the rounds or knife, warn the students, and notify the parents to come by the office and pick them up - none ever gave me cause to dismiss them for this reason alone.

However, illegal drugs on campus = dismissal and - with probable cause - a refusal to have a drug screen = dismissal.

It's not a cut and dried world out there on campus - even though I would have liked it to have been that way on a number of occasions.

And so it goes...

Richard

[Sacamuelas]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,564605,00.html

more "zero tolerance" policy in action..... Why even have school administrators and a school board? I thought they were there to provide leadership, judgement, knowledge,etc. Complete BS

[alelks]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Yet another case where the "may we search your car" response is bungled.

In all cases, the answer is, "Not unless you have a warrant".

TR

EXACTLY! And here is some more good advice. This is a classic video and should be watched by all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

[Warrior-Mentor]

Originally Posted by alelks

EXACTLY! And here is some more good advice. This is a classic video and should be watched by all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

Thanks. Great advice. Amazing how your words can be turned against you...

Originally Posted by alelks

EXACTLY! And here is some more good advice. This is a classic video and should be watched by all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

I made a DVD of this lecture and show it, when time permits, to the Concealed Carry classes I assist in teaching.

Another video worth watching is sold by FlexYourRights.org. They have made the video they sell available on YouTube at a lower video quality. It is available here: BUSTED: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters.

Originally Posted by The Reaper

...the answer is, "Not unless you have a warrant".

TR

I've always like the phrase, "I do not participate in custodial interrogations".

[Guy]

A 6-year-old boy's excitement over joining the Cub Scouts may just land him in reform school for 45 days.

Zachary Christie was suspended from his 1st grade class in Delaware's Christina School District after bringing a camping utensil - a combination knife/fork/spoon - to use at lunch, prompting calls to reexamine schools' zero-tolerance policy for bringing weapons to school, according to a New York Times report Monday.

Zero tolerance policies were instituted in many school districts across the country, at least in part due to violence at Columbine and Virginia Tech, the report notes. Their rigid enforcement is designed to eliminate the appearance of bias or discrimination on the part of school officials.

The school district's policy is enforced "regardless of intent" and "does not take into consideration a child's age," reports CBS News correspondent Jim Axelrod.

But residents, and some lawmakers, are now wondering why schools can't apply a more common-sense discretion to such instances.

"It just seems unfair," said Zachary, who is being home-schooled while his mother, Debbie Christie, tries to fight the suspension. That involved Zachary appearing before a district disciplinary committee with his karate instructor and mother's fiancé vouching for him as character witnesses.

"Zachary wears a suit and tie some days to school by his own choice because he takes school so seriously," his mother said. "He is not some sort of threat to his classmates."

Christie started a Web site, helpzachary.com, to drum up support for her son.

State Representative Teresa L. Schooley wrote the disciplinary committee, asking each member to "consider the situation, get all the facts, find out about Zach and his family and then act with common sense for the well-being of this child."

But the strict enforcement of the policy has its supporters.

"There is no parent who wants to get a phone call where they hear that their child no longer has two good seeing eyes because there was a scuffle and someone pulled out a knife," said George Evans, the school district board's president.

There has been a move to give school officials more flexibility in "weapon"-related incidents. After a third-grade girl was expelled for a year after bringing in a knife to cut the birthday cake her grandmother sent in to the class, a new law was passed allowing officials to modify punishments on a case-by-case basis. But that was for expulsions, not suspensions as Zachary is faced with. Another revision to the law is being drafted to address suspensions, according to the report.

The toughness in kids; is diminishing at a rapid pace!

Stay safe.

[Bill Harsey]

Guy,
Good post, heard about this on the early radio this morning.

Razor,
Well said, thank you.

Richard,
Your not included in the following comment.

About the "knife" punishments:
The individuals employed by schools who exhibit this kind of judgment about a simple and common tool have me wondering what other failure of judgments they make when in the classroom.

[BigJimCalhoun]

We home-school our son, partly because of some of the nonsense posted above. That and singing praises to Obama, social engineering, etc.

I realize not every family can homeschool, but it is a choice we have made.

[The Reaper]

"There is no parent who wants to get a phone call where they hear that their child no longer has two good seeing eyes because there was a scuffle and someone pulled out a knife," said George Evans, the school district board's president. .

Ah, yes. The old "it's all fun till someone gets and eye put out" argument.

What about sharp pencils? If safety is the issue, shouldn't those be banned as well?

TR

[Pete]

"....."There is no parent who wants to get a phone call where they hear that their child no longer has two good seeing eyes because there was a scuffle and someone pulled out a knife," said George Evans, the school district board's president.........."

My older girls spent 13 years in the public school system. During that time only one person was injured by a "weapon". A student - who, to be kind, had a number of issues - stabbed a teacher with a pencil.

For a number of reasons the student stayed in school.