Explorer Scouts Subdue Disgruntled Iraq Veteran

[SF-TX]

Scouts Train to Fight Terrorists, and More
By JENNIFER STEINHAUER

IMPERIAL, Calif. — Ten minutes into arrant mayhem in this town near the Mexican border, and the gunman, a disgruntled Iraq war veteran, has already taken out two people, one slumped in his desk, the other covered in blood on the floor.

The responding officers — eight teenage boys and girls, the youngest 14 — face tripwire, a thin cloud of poisonous gas and loud shots — BAM! BAM! — fired from behind a flimsy wall. They move quickly, pellet guns drawn and masks affixed.

“United States Border Patrol! Put your hands up!” screams one in a voice cracking with adolescent determination as the suspect is subdued...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us...=MYWAY&ei=5065

[DinDinA-2]

nytimes, huh...not surprised.

[Mizzou]

I just don't understand where this stigma evolved from. Is it purely an ignorant liberal creation, or have there been actual incidents? I have specifically looked for disgruntled Iraq veterans committing crimes, and all I find are links to the DHS report, this article, and the videos that were discussed here previously about how to handle veterans in the classroom. I'd like to know the thoughts of others on this board. I respect the opinions here. Thanks.

[steel71]

More propaganda from the 4th branch of government. They're really going out of their way to demoralize the military and veterans. What's the agenda? Divide and conquer?

[caveman]

Did you all even read the article or are you just posting in response to the line highlighted in red in the first post?

[Mizzou]

I did read the entire article, and thanks for attempting to condescend. I question the usage of an Iraq war veteran in the scenario. Just as I question the DHS report appearing to villify returning servicemembers. I also question usage of veterans in training videos at colleges, where they are portrayed as angry and stupid. Heck, why not throw in the NYT articles that mention the 121 "murders" committed by returning soldiers, some of which included vehicle accidents, and do not even attempt to mention that it is well below the per capita murder rate for the rest of the population.

Did you have anything to contribute, Caveman?

[Pete]

Originally Posted by caveman

Did you all even read the article or are you just posting in response to the line highlighted in red in the first post?

Did you read the line highlighted in red or are you just kneejerk reacting to our posts?

Now explain to us why they used a disgrunted Iraq war veteran in his little fort as the target instead of a terrorist or illegal type situation?

The below is from the story :

"The Explorers program, a coeducational affiliate of the Boy Scouts of America that began 60 years ago, is training thousands of young people in skills used to confront terrorism, illegal immigration and escalating border violence —"

Oh, wait, because to the US Government vets are the terrorists and a safe PC target for training.

None of us have an issue with the Explorers program or training - just the target.

[Red Flag 1]

Originally Posted by SF-TX

Scouts Train to Fight Terrorists, and More
By JENNIFER STEINHAUER

IMPERIAL, Calif. — Ten minutes into arrant mayhem in this town near the Mexican border, and the gunman, a disgruntled Iraq war veteran, has already taken out two people, one slumped in his desk, the other covered in blood on the floor.

The responding officers — eight teenage boys and girls, the youngest 14 — face tripwire, a thin cloud of poisonous gas and loud shots — BAM! BAM! — fired from behind a flimsy wall. They move quickly, pellet guns drawn and masks affixed.

“United States Border Patrol! Put your hands up!” screams one in a voice cracking with adolescent determination as the suspect is subdued...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us...=MYWAY&ei=5065

Left coast training and MSM at their best. A few years ago it would have been a postal worker. Perhaps we should look into the USPS public relations model.

My $.02.

RF 1

[The Reaper]

I find it ironic that the NYT would have issues with the stereotyping of an Arab as a role player, but not a veteran, who would have fought for their right to publish their screed.

TR

[Paslode]

This is insulting on at least 2 counts. Not only do you have the NY Times directing fire at Vet's, the Main Tin Foil (Infowars) web news is claiming the 'Boy Scouts Train to Become Homeland Gestapo'.

Unbelievable.

[Team Sergeant]

Parting shots from a shitty newspaper, people and owners.

Very soon their headlines will read: "We're out of business!"

[caveman]

It would be a shame for us all to overlook what the Explorers are doing because of one sentence, disgraceful though it may be.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by caveman

It would be a shame for us all to overlook what the Explorers are doing because of one sentence, disgraceful though it may be.

Did anyone of us here badmouth the Scouts?

The Explorer Scouts were executing a program given to them.

We are commenting on the program that set up their exercise.

Caveman - since the program is for them to potentially help with a terrorist or illegal problem why didn't the program have them go after a terrorist or illegal?

Oh, wait - it did.

[SF_BHT]

Originally Posted by Pete

Did you read the line highlighted in red or are you just kneejerk reacting to our posts?

Now explain to us why they used a disgrunted Iraq war veteran in his little fort as the target instead of a terrorist or illegal type situation?

The below is from the story :

"The Explorers program, a coeducational affiliate of the Boy Scouts of America that began 60 years ago, is training thousands of young people in skills used to confront terrorism, illegal immigration and escalating border violence —"

Oh, wait, because to the US Government vets are the terrorists and a safe PC target for training.

None of us have an issue with the Explorers program or training - just the target.

Caveman

You still have not answered Petes Question!!!!!!!!

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I find it ironic that the NYT would have issues with the stereotyping of an Arab as a role player, but not a veteran, who would have fought for their right to publish their screed.

FWIW, I agree. It was the New York Times that beat the drum against profiling in the 1990s. An example is here. And in support of Mizzou's comment, note how the 1999 article questions the statistical foundation for racial profiling. Where is the due diligence for this latest iteration of profiling? Now, when veterans are the ones being profiled the practice is suddenly not only okay, but approved.

Originally Posted by Paslode

This is insulting on at least 2 counts. Not only do you have the NY Times directing fire at Vet's, the Main Tin Foil (Infowars) web news is claiming the 'Boy Scouts Train to Become Homeland Gestapo'.

Unbelievable.

The article fails to place adequately the events in this article in a broader context and to address concretely relevant questions including: How are most Explorers trained? What are the debates over these methods in the scouting community? How have Explorer programs changed peoples' lives for the better?

For these and other lapses, it is clear to me that an attack on the Explorers was clearly the main intent of this article, as demonstrated by the Editors' selections of 'best' online reader feedback, here.

Originally Posted by Mizzou

I just don't understand where this stigma evolved from. Is it purely an ignorant liberal creation, or have there been actual incidents?

Mizzou, IMO, the depiction of OIF veterans is a continuation of the shameful depiction of Vietnam War veterans that was commonplace in American mass popular culture from the 1970s through the 1990s. The veteran as potential psychotic has transformed into the veteran as potential psychotic terrorist.