US Special Forces launch rare attack inside Syria

[nmap]

Great news! It's good when plans come together.

[morolen]

Originally Posted by blue02hd

Morolen, the countless deaths of our brothers in uniform, not to mention the lives lost of dedicated Iraqi's and innocent civilians is pretty serious as well. Seems to me, the intel was right on the money,,,,,

I just wish it could have avoided international attention.

and for that, i think we are fortunate and even in the right without question(as Syria has little to no ground to stand on in the eyes of the international community), however this is the 2nd time this sort of action has been taken, first, with Pakistan and now Syria. The Pakistani government didn't think it was very funny if I recall, in fact i seem to remember they shot "flares" at the US forces.

It just seems like a particular trend of "fuck your sovereignty" is emerging, and that is something to be concerned about.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by morolen

and for that, i think we are fortunate and even in the right without question(as Syria has little to no ground to stand on in the eyes of the international community), however this is the 2nd time this sort of action has been taken, first, with Pakistan and now Syria. The Pakistani government didn't think it was very funny if I recall, in fact i seem to remember they shot "flares" at the US forces.

It just seems like a particular trend of "fuck your sovereignty" is emerging, and that is something to be concerned about.

It occurs to me that it is something our enemies should worry about quite a bit, and our friends not at all.

Maybe there was a message there for others, perhaps Iran to consider as well.

TR

[blue02hd]

Originally Posted by morolen

and for that, i think we are fortunate and even in the right without question(as Syria has little to no ground to stand on in the eyes of the international community), however this is the 2nd time this sort of action has been taken, first, with Pakistan and now Syria. The Pakistani government didn't think it was very funny if I recall, in fact i seem to remember they shot "flares" at the US forces.

It just seems like a particular trend of "fuck your sovereignty" is emerging, and that is something to be concerned about.

Hey bud, ever been shot at from across a border? Take your time to answer.

[morolen]

i sit corrected by my betters

[Box]

I am a big fan of the "fuck your sovereignty" approach.

Public and violent... I dig it. I agree with TR,

It occurs to me that it is something our enemies should worry about quite a bit, and our friends not at all.

Our enemies need a few sleepless nights knowing that their safe havens aren't so safe any longer...

[TOMAHAWK9521]

When I first heard about the incident, it reminded me of a wacky idea my team was toying with while in Iraq earlier this year. We knew of a village in Syria that was a fortified staging area for running men and equipment across the border into our sector. Our plan wasn't just outside the box but on a couple shelves lower. Although we never put the plan into action (for obvious reasons) my guys and I still giggle about how much damage and chaos it would have inflicted on the enemy's infrastructure had we pulled it off.

[stuW]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

It occurs to me that it is something our enemies should worry about quite a bit, and our friends not at all.

Maybe there was a message there for others, perhaps Iran to consider as well.

TR

If we engage in such behavior, it legitimizes such action for other less honorable and democratic state actors. That doesn't mean I'm opposed - but these actions will make us look stupid when we condemn other countries for doing the same thing. The world has a lot of problems with non-state nationalistic groups. I'm not certain the cost-benefit analysis comes up positive, unless the people/info they got is really, really good. We aren't going to know that...

[Smokin Joe]

Originally Posted by stuW

If we engage in such behavior, it legitimizes such action for other less honorable and democratic state actors. That doesn't mean I'm opposed - but these actions will make us look stupid when we condemn other countries for doing the same thing. The world has a lot of problems with non-state nationalistic groups. I'm not certain the cost-benefit analysis comes up positive, unless the people/info they got is really, really good. We aren't going to know that...

Okay first have a little faith that these SOF personal are doing a great job and are acting based on the best intel available. You can't honestly think that any officer let alone any General or staff Officer would lay there career on the line to conduct a day time cross border raid into Syria without unbelievably rock solid intel that some serious shithead was in that rat hole.

Secondly screw there sovereignty, war sucks so they can help us end it sooner by getting on our team or getting out of our way. They can take there protest and shove it up their ass. The Syrians have been given amble opportunity to get on the good guys team, but have chosen to, at the very minimum "sit this one out". But more likely they have passively (if not actively) helped Al-Qaida promote and execute their missions against our men and women in uniform.

So again I say screw Syria, oh ya and Pakistan too, while I'm at it; its no secret Al-Qaida has been sleeping their backyard but they don't want to help either.

Just my .02 cents.

[Box]

Openly rolling a rogue military force across an international border with the intent of pitching a tent is a world apart from conducting a direct strike at a specific target and then putting your toys away and going home.

[Magnolia]

I would like to add two relevant articles to the discussion.

Michael Scheuer suggests the Syrian regime may not be able to exert total control over the insurgents in the area and that the regime may even be experiencing blowback from their previously robust support of AQIZ infiltration. Personally, I don’t think the Syrian regime has made the calculation that supporting infiltration is no longer in their long term interest. I’m also unsure this raid will further that goal.
http://www.jamestown.org/terrorism/n...icleid=2374480

The second article leads me to believe that while JSOC has demonstrated the ability to execute these raids successfully, the Executive Branch has not mastered the use of this tactic politically. Both are necessary for an operation to be successful over the long term.
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/0...r_ops_092608w/

[hoepoe]

Outstanding work and thanks to the Men and Women that made it happen.

I, for obvious reasons am a big fan of get 'em wherever they are. To me, this is operation is another indication that the situation in the ME is coming to a head. A major regional conflict is inevitable and the sooner it happens and is over with, the better for us to move past it (providing "we" win of course :-) ).

Well done!

H

[csquare]

Is it possible that al-Assad and the government may have known or given the green light for the operation? This POS may have been causing problems internally and they gave up some intelligence to the US. This would show the US (passive/aggressively) they are against terrorism and their hidden agenda; it would eliminate one of their internal problems without them actually pulling the trigger. It was a daylight operation and the Syrian's didn't return fire. Then they show some video, get upset and condemn the entire whole operation internationally to show we're the evil empire. Just something to think about......

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by stuW

If we engage in such behavior, it legitimizes such action for other less honorable and democratic state actors. That doesn't mean I'm opposed - but these actions will make us look stupid when we condemn other countries for doing the same thing. The world has a lot of problems with non-state nationalistic groups. I'm not certain the cost-benefit analysis comes up positive, unless the people/info they got is really, really good. We aren't going to know that...

I disagreed with the cross-border ops in Pakistan. I do not have any issues with this op into Syria. I believe that the terrorist movement across the border is taking place with the full approval of the Syrian government at the highest levels. I do not believe that is necessarily the case in Pakistan.

Again, if it gains significant advantage, and does not harm an ally, I see no issues with it. And any other entity who has the ability and desire to conduct cross-border ops is going to do it regardless, and the impotent UN is not going to stop anyone.

As noted, we did not stay on site or have any desire to engage the regular Syrian forces. Contrast that to the Russians conduct in Georgia.

I think it is easy to criticize when you are an academic and have not stood a post, or lost a friend to the enemy.

TR

[stuW]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I think it is easy to criticize when you are an academic and have not stood a post, or lost a friend to the enemy.

I agree.

stu