"Army puts football star's NFL dream on hold"

[GratefulCitizen]

Originally Posted by Patriot007

The root of the problem is recruiting candidates for service academies based on their ability to play sports. For example why choose future military leaders based on ability of playing sports like golf and tennis? Other than allowing the coaches to keep their jobs what advantage is there to the services. I'll even give team sports requiring overall athleticism, leadership and teamwork the benefit of the doubt but only after integrity, academics, and overall desire to be a leader for our servicemen.

If he wants out of the contract- he can go to jail.

"On the fields of friendly strife are sown the seeds that on other days and other fields will bear the fruits of victory."
-General Douglas MacArthur

He seemed to think there was merit.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by GratefulCitizen

"On the fields of friendly strife are sown the seeds that on other days and other fields will bear the fruits of victory."
-General Douglas MacArthur

He seemed to think there was merit.

GC, re-read the quote. The "other days and other fields" reference therein doesn't refer to professional athletic fields.

Aequitas, you do understand that there are at least a few of us here that have similar "inside perspectives", right? Minus the drill exemptions, assigned study sessions and Corps Squad tables, of course. Maybe we should see what Blueboy's and JoeSFMech's opinions are as well?

uboat, I don't have current figures, but do you remember which MOS had an even higher OPTEMPO than SF before OEF/OIF? With SHORAD pretty much gone, chances are very good that 2LT Campbell wouldn't be growing any moss in his career field, even if he wasn't walking patrols in Baghdad.

As for WCAP, the vast dissimiliarities between it and USMA, especially in terms of the expectations of its members, make it unrelated to this particular discussion. For the record, I'm not a big fan of the program, but grudgingly accept it along with the Soldier Show entertainers, the Army Chorale and other like-intentioned special duty assignments as a necessary marketing tool in an all-volunteer force.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by uboat509

Man, everybody is all over this kid because he tried to take advantage of a program that was already in place.

There's an old saying "Don't hate a dog for being a dog." Well don't hate a twenty-two year old for being a twenty-two year old.
SFC W

I was 17 when I joined the military, so your "he's only 22" doesn't cut it with me. All the sympathy I have for 2nd Lt. Caleb Campbell would fit into a thimble with room to swim.

2nd Lt. Caleb Campbell is a cry-baby. I personally would not allow him to lead a troop of Girl Scouts.

And he's not a man/warrior such as Pat Tillman who answered his countries call without hesitation or reservation. IMO he does not deserve to stand in my shadow.

Team Sergeant

[GratefulCitizen]

Originally Posted by Razor

GC, re-read the quote. The "other days and other fields" reference therein doesn't refer to professional athletic fields.

I fully understand this.

Patriot007 said: "Other than allowing the coaches to keep their jobs what advantage is there to the services"

Gen. MacArthur's quote would seem to address this.

[Five-O]

It would be interesting to see what (if any) universities offered Campbell a full ride to play football. If WP offered him one I would ASSUME others did as well. So if military service was not his top priority why not go to a good Ivy League or similar institution that did not have the military obligation upon graduation??

[abc_123]

To me, it's unconsionable (sp?) that the academy would even entertain a cadet wanting out of his service commitment to play pro sports. Just like my 10 and 7yr old asking me to watch a "R" movie.... Aint goint to happen....and they don't even bother to ask, because they know what my reaction to that question will be.

The fact that it's even a possiblility to ask is not the fault of the 2LT, its a fault of the officers that permit it.

Razor,

Why is the WCAP that much different? Officers can be involved in that too. Tell me what "recruiting" benifit does the Army get from the someone who is on the team that places 46th in the luge in the olympic games?

[Razor]

Originally Posted by GratefulCitizen

I fully understand this.

Patriot007 said: "Other than allowing the coaches to keep their jobs what advantage is there to the services"

Gen. MacArthur's quote would seem to address this.

It does...to an extent. When MacArthur was Superintendent, he instituted the intramural sports program at USMA that continues today. Under the program, every cadet not on an intercollegiate team or competitive club sport (Judo, Rugby, shooting sports, etc.) is required to participate half a semester each semester in one of several intramural sports on a team made up of other cadets in his/her company, and are coached by cadets from the company as well. Sports range from rugby to squash. This way, every cadet has an opportunity to reap the leadership, teamwork and physical benefits afforded by participating in team sports.

Since the intramural program is independent from any of the intercollegiate sports teams, cadets could arguably participate on the "fields of friendly strife" lauded by MacA without ever playing a different school. I wouldn't advocate for this type of solution, but it goes to show that the intent could be met without involvement in NCAA.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by abc_123

Razor,

Why is the WCAP that much different? Officers can be involved in that too. Tell me what "recruiting" benifit does the Army get from the someone who is on the team that places 46th in the luge in the olympic games?

Like I said, I don't like it, but then the service expectations of the soldiers recruited into the program are far different than someone entering a service academy. That is, of course, a broad generalization--Dan Brown (a USMA grad) went into the WCAP after commissioning and finishing OBC to be a long distance runner. The other part is that I also believe that at least for the officers in WCAP, they're expected to leave the program and do their real job after some point; they're not granted a release from their service obligation, and are in fact still "serving" and subject to both the needs of the Army (i.e., can get yanked out at any time) and UCMJ while in WCAP. There's also the fact that they compete for the Army, in blatantly obvious Army "uniforms". Pro athletes play for a civilian team with no obvious ties to the military, and generally wear no outward sign on their uniforms that they came from the military. Besides David Robinson, how many other pro athletes coming out the service academies in recent history are readily recognizable by the public as representatives of their respective service? I can't name any off hand. At least there's no question as to where the WCAP soldiers come from.

[CPTAUSRET]

I turned down WP via USMAPS, (was recommended and accepted). I turned it down because I was not ready at the time to commit to 8 years of service, I believe it was a 4 year OBV, at that time. I later committed to a 6 year OBV to attend flight school.

I knew full well that attending WP obligated me to a service committment!

Don't go if you are not willing to serve!

[GANGSTER]

[QUOTE=
If I was that Lieutenant, I'd have kept my mouth shut and just ranted about the situation in a journal perhaps, and even then, it'd would've been an "Aw shucks, can you believe it, I actually could've played professional football! Oh well, shit happens, I signed up to be a soldier so I have an obligation to fulfill..." type of rant, [COLOR="Red"]not a, "#$%$@#$^#!! the stupid Army won't let me out so can I go play professional football" type of rant.[/COLOR] I'd have put a bag over my head before coming out and ask for special treatment so I could go make millions playing football while my fellow cadets go off to war. QUOTE]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/s...P&GT1=39002

I suggest you read the article attached. In reality Lt Campell received his orders and has moved on. What source do you have that you allows you to quote what he said?

My comments do not relect my opinion of the service option. However as professionals we need to consider the source of criticism or praise. This type of mud slinging in the dark serves no purpose on this board. What background does this guy sound so righteous. It is post like his what I choose to ignore Guerrilla & Asset shallow remarks!

[GANGSTER]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8377544

Try this site for the Lt. Campbell events.

[uboat509]

Originally Posted by GANGSTER

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8377544

Try this site for the Lt. Campbell events.

Interesting. According to this, it wasn't even his idea to take this exemption. He was going to transfer to another school before he incured the service requirement but the coach at WP convinced him to stay and seek the exemption. He also reportedly said this after finding out that he had lost the exemption

"I'm a soldier first and foremost and I go where they order me to go," he said after hearing the news.

If true, then maybe he won't be such a horrible officer after all.

SFC W

[abc_123]

Originally Posted by Razor

Like I said, I don't like it, but then the service expectations of the soldiers recruited into the program are far different than someone entering a service academy. That is, of course, a broad generalization--Dan Brown (a USMA grad) went into the WCAP after commissioning and finishing OBC to be a long distance runner. The other part is that I also believe that at least for the officers in WCAP, they're expected to leave the program and do their real job after some point; they're not granted a release from their service obligation, and are in fact still "serving" and subject to both the needs of the Army (i.e., can get yanked out at any time) and UCMJ while in WCAP. There's also the fact that they compete for the Army, in blatantly obvious Army "uniforms". Pro athletes play for a civilian team with no obvious ties to the military, and generally wear no outward sign on their uniforms that they came from the military. Besides David Robinson, how many other pro athletes coming out the service academies in recent history are readily recognizable by the public as representatives of their respective service? I can't name any off hand. At least there's no question as to where the WCAP soldiers come from.

Thanks, Razor... And, I'm not arguing with you. Just thinking out loud on a subject kinda related to the 2LT Campbell thing..

The biggest negative that I see with the WCAP (especially for officers) is that you have 2LTs for "x" amount of time primarily being paid to play their olympic sport. Then at what? 18 months? He/she is getting a promotion and has never really prioritized learning Army skills over sport skills. You essentially could have Captains running around with essentially no LT experience. They don't wear, I'm an WCAP officer and I don't really know my job like you would think, brass on their collar.

What benefit does the Army get out of this program? A morale boost? I don't know about you, but my morale does not hinge on whether an "Army guy"places 180th or 80th in the bobsled or not. While deployed, "how are the WCAP guys doing in wrestling this year?" was not a question I heard asked too much. Maybe recruiting? I'm sure that archery is a big draw and producer of recruits for somebody's Army but I'm sure it's not ours.

So, given that we have a war on, what's the point?

[brianksain]

TS cracks me up ... for the record.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by brianksain

TS cracks me up ... for the record.

Originally Posted by X-ray

From Jamie McIntyre
CNN Pentagon Correspondent

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- "This action was taken to uniformly apply military service obligations for all members of the U.S. Army," the Army said.

It was a decision that brought Campbell to tears, he told Michigan newspaper The Oakland Press.

"Oh yeah, I cried, because I wanted a shot," Campbell told the paper as he entered the Lions training facility. "I mean, like I said, I had the best of both worlds.

X-ray

I cannot stand cry babies.

I can just see the LT on a battle field somewhere in the sandbox when some young kid from the Bronx asks him:

"Hey Lt, did you really cry alligator tears and snot bubbles when you found out the NFL wanted you?".

Team Sergeant