Are we at war with Islam?

[Team Sergeant]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sam-ha..._b_100132.html

The connection between the doctrine of Islam and Islamist violence is simply not open to dispute. It's not that critics of religion like myself speculate that such a connection might exist: the point is that Islamists themselves acknowledge and demonstrate this connection at every opportunity and to deny it is to retreat within a fantasy world of political correctness and religious apology. Many western scholars, like the much admired Karen Armstrong, appear to live in just such a place. All of their talk about how benign Islam "really" is, and about how the problem of fundamentalism exists in all religions, only obfuscates what may be the most pressing issue of our time: Islam, as it is currently understood and practiced by vast numbers of the world's Muslims, is antithetical to civil society. A recent poll showed that thirty-six percent of British Muslims (ages 16-24) believe that a person should be killed for leaving the faith. Sixty-eight percent of British Muslims feel that their neighbors who insult Islam should be arrested and prosecuted, and seventy-eight percent think that the Danish cartoonists should have been brought to justice. And these are British Muslims.

Occasionally, however, a lone voice can be heard acknowledging the obvious. Hassan Butt wrote in the Guardian:



When I was still a member of what is probably best termed the British Jihadi Network, a series of semi-autonomous British Muslim terrorist groups linked by a single ideology, I remember how we used to laugh in celebration whenever people on TV proclaimed that the sole cause for Islamic acts of terror like 9/11, the Madrid bombings and 7/7 was Western foreign policy. By blaming the government for our actions, those who pushed the 'Blair's bombs' line did our propaganda work for us. More important, they also helped to draw away any critical examination from the real engine of our violence: Islamic theology.

It is astounding how infrequently one hears such candor among the public voices of "moderate" Islam. This is what we owe the true moderates of the Muslim world: we must hold their co-religionists to the same standards of civility and reasonableness that we take for granted in all other people. Only our willingness to openly criticize Islam for its all-too-obvious failings can make it safe for Muslim moderates, secularists, apostates--and, indeed, women--to rise up and reform their faith.

And if anyone in this debate can be credibly accused of racism, it is the western apologists and "multiculturalists" who deem Arabs and Muslims too immature to shoulder the responsibilities of civil discourse. As Ayaan Hirsi Ali has pointed out, there is a calamitous form of "affirmative action" at work, especially in western Europe, where Muslim immigrants are systematically exempted from western standards of moral order in the name of paying "respect" to the glaring pathologies in their culture. Hirsi Ali has also observed that there is a quasi-racist double-think on display whenever western powers trumpet that "Islam is peace," all the while taking heroic measures to guard against the next occasion when the barbarians run amok in response to a film, cartoon, opera, novel, beauty pageant--or the mere naming of a teddy bear.

Have you seen the Danish cartoons that so roiled the Muslim world? Probably not, as their publication was suppressed by almost every newspaper, magazine, and television station in the United States. Given their volcanic reception--hundreds of thousands of Muslims rioted, hundreds of people were killed--their sheer banality should have rendered these drawings extraordinarily newsworthy. One magazine which did print them, Free Inquiry (for which I am proud to have written), had its stock banned from every Borders and Waldenbooks in the country. These are precisely the sorts of capitulations that we must avoid in the future.

The lesson we should draw from the Fitna controversy is that we need more criticism of Islam, not less. Let it come down in such torrents that not even the most deluded Islamist could conceive of containing it. As Ibn Warraq, author of the revelatory Why I Am Not a Muslim, said in response to recent events:

It is perverse for the western media to lament the lack of an Islamic reformation and willfully ignore works such as Wilders' film, Fitna. How do they think reformation will come about if not with criticism? There is no such right as 'the right not to be offended; indeed, I am deeply offended by the contents of the Koran, with its overt hatred of Christians, Jews, apostates, non-believers, homosexuals but cannot demand its suppression.

It is time we recognized that those who claim the "right not to be offended" have also announced their hatred of civil society.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sam-ha..._b_100132.html

[hoot72]

Originally Posted by Greenhat

Yep, Indonesians mostly (at least one Saudi). Picking them up indicates fighting terrorism, not being involved in it. A bunch have been picked up in Thailand as well.

It is so easy for them (Indonesians) to change their identities and passports in Kalimantan (Tarakan, Balikpapan) across the border from Tawau in Sabah so its really hard to track anyone. They can also get indonesian passports for the guys coming down from Davao and Zambonga who aren't Malaysian or Indonesian.

A large number of JI members have been arrested under the ISA (Internal Security Act) which is essentially, 2 years behind bars without trail. It has been proven to work. I don't know what goes on behind closed doors in Kemunting (the ISA Center) but most come out changed...

The problem is its also very easy to hide in Sabah and to use it as a transit point to operate in and out of South Philippines and then to make their away down south into Indonesia...bribery and corruption is also a big problem.

JI is active and well over on this side of the world..not necc. in West Malaysia where the police seem to have a better control and intelligence on whats going on in their backyard.

[frostfire]

Right in our own backyard. Tolerance for the intolerant. How far can this go?CAIR is quick to the "rescue" btw


WorldNetDaily, May 12, 2008

BRAVE NEW SCHOOLS

Muslim threats force out disabled teacher with dog
Islamic students reportedly taunted 'unclean' animal


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A Muslim high school high school student's intolerance for a service dog needed by a student teacher with a disability has reportedly prompted the student teacher to abandon the last 10 hours of his scheduled assignment at Technical High School in St. Cloud, Minn.

The St. Cloud Times online said the situation developed with student teacher Tyler Hurd, 23, of Mahtomedi, who hopes to teach special education.

He's a student at St. Cloud State University, and was assigned to Technical High School in the St. Cloud district for his 50 hours of student teaching, and took with him his service dog, Emmitt.

The newspaper said Hurd needs a service dog because of a childhood injury that leaves him with seizures, sometimes happening as often as weekly. The black lab is trained to protect Hurd when he has a seizure.

The school district told the newspaper it wasn't really a threat.

"I think it was a misunderstanding where we didn't really prepare either side for possible implications," Julia Espe, curriculum director for the public schools, said.

Hurd, however, reported a student threatened to kill his dog. He said the threat came from a Somali student who is Muslim. Minnesota has a large Somali population, mostly Muslim, and they have been involved in issues over their religion in the past.

At the Minneapolis-St. Paul airport, many taxi drivers are Somali Muslims and they have raised objections to carrying passengers with liquor. Airport officials finally threatened to remove from the cab drivers' line waiting for fares anyone who refused a passenger over the issue.

WND also has reported on the dispute over a taxpayer-funded school in a Minneapolis suburb serving mostly Somali Muslim students and accusations that Islam is being taught at the public facility.

Islam forbids its adherents from touching dogs.

Hurd earlier spent some time student teaching at Talahi Community School, where he said his experience was good. He told the newspaper Somali students there even petted his dog, although they used paper to keep their hands from actually making physical contact.

But at Tech, Hurd reported, students taunted his dog, and he left when he was told a student threatened the animal.

University officials said they waived the remaining 10 hours of work that Hurd was supposed to have finished.

"We came up with a solution because I felt threatened by it," Hurd told the newspaper.

A meeting was set up involving Kate Steffens, the dean of education at St. Cloud State, and assistant principal Lori Lockhart of Tech, in order to avoid future problems.

"We certainly welcome (Hurd) in our district, and we hope we can get this all resolved so he feels welcome and his dog is welcome," Espe said.

The college places about 1,000 students in 240 regional schools to help them get ready for careers in teaching.

Original link: http://www.sctimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll...WS01/105120058

[Pete]

Kafir dreams.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...D-C3F1ACD07D8A

Interesting read.

[Future_Frog]

I'm pretty well read up on Islam, and my dad is as well and we've had a few good discussions over the subject and come up with a pretty good saying.
"Not all Muslims are terrorist, but most terrorist are Muslim." Hope you guys can play around with this idea.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Future_Frog

I'm pretty well read up on Islam, and my dad is as well and we've had a few good discussions over the subject and come up with a pretty good saying.
"Not all Muslims are terrorist, but most terrorist are Muslim." Hope you guys can play around with this idea.

Have you already read the previous 69 pages of this thread before jumping in with both feet?

TR

[Future_Frog]

No, the purpose of this post was in response to Pete's article, not the thread topic.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Future_Frog

No, the purpose of this post was in response to Pete's article, not the thread topic.

Take care and get a feel for the place before you do much more posting.

You just may find your rucksack out in the hallway.

Edited to add: Too late, I think I just heard the door slam.

[frostfire]

I sincerely hope/pray/wish this will never happen in the US of A.
Is there an end of this? What has happened in Holland?!??!


Saturday, May 24, 2008

Netherlands: Man moved on flight after Muslim woman request

Amsterdam CDA municipal council member Lex van Drooge was recently asked to move to a different seat on a KLM flight from Istanbul to Amsterdam, since the Muslim woman sitting next to him had objections about sitting next to a man.

The council member had been a work-trip to Istanbul together with a group of Amsterdam politicians. He says that at beginning of the trip back he was asked by a stewardess to move elsewhere in the plane. Later it turned out this request was from his original headscarf wearing neighbor.

Van Drooge says that apparently we don't know how to deal with these type of situations, which happily only happen occasionally.

The unusual request by the Muslim woman, who was traveling on her own and who did not say a word to Van Drooge, was not noticed by other passengers. The Amsterdam resident is surprised at how things developed, and has a "slight unpleasant feeling".

He says he naturally called around, and found that Turkish airplane companies haven't heard about different classes for men and women.

A spokesperson for KLM could not confirm the story, and said there is no specific policy regarding such cultural or religious inspired requests. But she says that the crew takes into account special requests of passengers. "If it's possible, than we do that, and if it's not possible, than not."

It's unclear why the woman was not moved to a different place. The KLM spokesperson says that that was also possible.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/4...moslima__.html

[RPicart]

Originally Posted by frostfire

I sincerely hope/pray/wish this will never happen in the US of A.
Is there an end of this? What has happened in Holland?!??!


Saturday, May 24, 2008

Netherlands: Man moved on flight after Muslim woman request

Amsterdam CDA municipal council member Lex van Drooge was recently asked to move to a different seat on a KLM flight from Istanbul to Amsterdam, since the Muslim woman sitting next to him had objections about sitting next to a man.

The council member had been a work-trip to Istanbul together with a group of Amsterdam politicians. He says that at beginning of the trip back he was asked by a stewardess to move elsewhere in the plane. Later it turned out this request was from his original headscarf wearing neighbor.

Van Drooge says that apparently we don't know how to deal with these type of situations, which happily only happen occasionally.

The unusual request by the Muslim woman, who was traveling on her own and who did not say a word to Van Drooge, was not noticed by other passengers. The Amsterdam resident is surprised at how things developed, and has a "slight unpleasant feeling".

He says he naturally called around, and found that Turkish airplane companies haven't heard about different classes for men and women.

A spokesperson for KLM could not confirm the story, and said there is no specific policy regarding such cultural or religious inspired requests. But she says that the crew takes into account special requests of passengers. "If it's possible, than we do that, and if it's not possible, than not."

It's unclear why the woman was not moved to a different place. The KLM spokesperson says that that was also possible.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/4...moslima__.html

Stuff like that is occurring all over the United Kingdom as well. The following article comes from the METRO publication here in the UK, a free newspaper that is circulated via the public transit system. It is from the Friday, May 23, 2008 edition.

"Mother of two, 36, is denied Pill

A couple were refused the morning-after pill by a Muslim pharmacist because of his religious belief. Kaye Walsh and Chris Mellett wanted the emergency contraceptive after their usual method failed. Ms Walsh, who works in recruitment and has a son, 17, and a daughter, five, said of the incident at Sainsbury's in Denton, Manchester: 'I was absolutely flabbergasted. I'm a 36-year-old woman, not a child. Surely the pharmacist has a duty of care?' But a Sainsbury's spokesman said the chemist was within his rights to refuse to give out the pill on religious grounds."

[mdb23]

Originally Posted by RPicart

Stuff like that is occurring all over the United Kingdom as well. The following article comes from the METRO publication here in the UK, a free newspaper that is circulated via the public transit system. It is from the Friday, May 23, 2008 edition.

"Mother of two, 36, is denied Pill

A couple were refused the morning-after pill by a Muslim pharmacist because of his religious belief. Kaye Walsh and Chris Mellett wanted the emergency contraceptive after their usual method failed. Ms Walsh, who works in recruitment and has a son, 17, and a daughter, five, said of the incident at Sainsbury's in Denton, Manchester: 'I was absolutely flabbergasted. I'm a 36-year-old woman, not a child. Surely the pharmacist has a duty of care?' But a Sainsbury's spokesman said the chemist was within his rights to refuse to give out the pill on religious grounds."

This has happened multiple times in the US, only with the pharmacist being an evangelical Christian instead of Muslim. It is such a common occurrence in the US, and is so well supported by many Christians, that many states have adopted "defense of faith" laws that actually prohibit employers (CVS, Target, Wal Mart, Walgreens, you name it) from taking any action against pharmacists who refuse to dispense prescriptions for the birth control pill, plan B, etc.
Mississippi, Arkansas, and South Dakota are three such states, and the last time I checked at least 10 other states had such legislation pending.

In addition, many pharmacists are not only refusing to fill the script, but are refusing to release the script back to the individual to be filled at another location.

The New England Journal of Medicine recently cited a case where a Texas pharmacist refused to give the morning after pill to a rape victim.

So we don't have to worry about the Muslim boogeyman on this one..... we are already dealing with the born again kind.

Before I get jumped on this one, I fully support the right of people to believe whatever they choose. However, I also believe that an employer should have the right to terminate or relieve an emplyee who chooses not to perform their full duties based upon religious grounds. If you don't want to dispense the birth control pill, that's fine, but open your own pharmacy.... don't go to work for a chain pharmacy and then cry religious persecution.

I am waiting for the day when a scientologist refuses to fill psychiatric meds and seeks protection under the defense of faith laws.... the precedent has already been set.

[RPicart]

Originally Posted by mdb23

"defense of faith" laws that actually prohibit employers (CVS, Target, Wal Mart, Walgreens, you name it) from taking any action against pharmacists who refuse to dispense prescriptions for the birth control pill, plan B, etc.
Mississippi, Arkansas, and South Dakota are three such states, and the last time I checked at least 10 other states had such legislation pending.

That's interesting, in regards to the defense of faith issue & pending legislation back in certain States.

I did a bit of quick research just now and found out that the Royal Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain, which as fas as I can tell Governs pharmacists, etc. has a snippet in its code of ethics that states that if supplying the morning-after pill is contrary to a pharmacist's personal, religious or moral beliefs they are within their rights not to supply it.

I just feel like this type of stuff has no place in the workplace - beliefs like that are obviously hindering the successful functioning of the job role.

[frostfire]

Originally Posted by RPicart

Stuff like that is occurring all over the United Kingdom as well.

Speaking of UK...

Jail dog named 'Allah' spells curtains for UK prison officer
Mon, May 26 03:05 PM

London, May 26 (ANI): Naming his sniffer dog "Allah" has resulted in in prison officer Chris Langridge, 28, being shifted out of Britain's top Belmarsh high-security jail.

Though Langridge insisted that his labrador was called Ali, and not Allah, a Muslim inmate filed an official complaint against the the dog handler, and he was promptly shifted.

One Belmarsh officer said: "This is political correctness gone mad."

elmarsh houses some of Britain's most notorious extremist Muslims, including hook-handed Abu Hamza. It also has the highest proportion of Muslim prisoners of any jail in Britain.

"Muslims don't like dogs and it would have been an insult to their religion if the dog had been called Allah, which is sacred to them. It is disgraceful the way the management kow-towed to them despite Chris's denial," The Sun quoted a source, as saying.

Langridge and his dog are now working at the Swaleside jail on the Isle of Sheppey, Kent. (ANI)

http://in.news.yahoo.com/ani/2008052...s-d2443e4.html

[RPicart]

Originally Posted by frostfire

Speaking of UK...

Jail dog named 'Allah' spells curtains for UK prison officer
Mon, May 26 03:05 PM

London, May 26 (ANI): Naming his sniffer dog "Allah" has resulted in in prison officer Chris Langridge, 28, being shifted out of Britain's top Belmarsh high-security jail.

Though Langridge insisted that his labrador was called Ali, and not Allah, a Muslim inmate filed an official complaint against the the dog handler, and he was promptly shifted.

One Belmarsh officer said: "This is political correctness gone mad."

elmarsh houses some of Britain's most notorious extremist Muslims, including hook-handed Abu Hamza. It also has the highest proportion of Muslim prisoners of any jail in Britain.

"Muslims don't like dogs and it would have been an insult to their religion if the dog had been called Allah, which is sacred to them. It is disgraceful the way the management kow-towed to them despite Chris's denial," The Sun quoted a source, as saying.

Langridge and his dog are now working at the Swaleside jail on the Isle of Sheppey, Kent. (ANI)

http://in.news.yahoo.com/ani/2008052...s-d2443e4.html

I hadn't heard of this, but I'm not surprised. I think the officer at Belmarsh got it right when he said, "This is political correctness gone mad."

There is a campaign going on in the UK AGAINST political correctness because it has become such a big thing recently: http://www.capc.co.uk/. It includes other examples of UK political correctness; everything from the "Three Little Pigs" offending Muslims to "Baa Baa Black Sheep" possibly being renamed "Baa Baa Multicolored Sheep/Rainbow Sheep."

In the area that I live in, in Birmingham, which has a high population of Southeast Asian ethnicities there had been talk by the Birmingham City Council of renaming Christmas WINTERVAL as to not offend anyone of a non-Christian denomination.

[Defender968]

Originally Posted by mdb23

In addition, many pharmacists are not only refusing to fill the script, but are refusing to release the script back to the individual to be filled at another location.

You know I'm ok with them refusing to fill it themselves on religious beliefs, (though I do think they should be fired or at least disciplined for failing to do their job) but that's their right to live how they wish and accept the consequences, but when they refuse to return the script now they're forcing their beliefs on others (in reality they're just forcing that person to go back and get another script) but I have a big problem with that. People are free in this country to believe and act as they wish as long as it is legal and doesn't infringe upon the rights of others, but when some "insert negative comment on any religious zealot, be they Christian, Muslim or whatever" tries to force me to behave/live according to their belief structure that's then I'm going to start raising hell. I'd call, write, and email, and then raise hell in person with that pharmacist’s direct boss, store manager, and company president, all of us in the military have sacrificed way to much to have our freedoms taken away by someone using their religion as an excuse.