"Edged Weapons" in the kitchen

[Bill Harsey]

Originally posted by The Reaper
No worries.

I started to ask him if he needed any small parts I might have lying around.

I still have an edge, and some insurance.

If he takes a shot, it better be perfect.

TR

You folks don't have anything to worry about, I don't mess with those who can mess better.

If you want the hands down best kitchen knives I've ever laid hands on, check out Murray Carter's work. He's an ABS mastersmith in the US, as well as the number 17 in the Sakemoto tradition of Yoshimoto Bladesmithing. Only non-Japanese to ever obtain such and honor. His knives range from traditional Japanese kitchen/sushi type knives to European/American styles. They are so wicked sharp it's downright scary. His knives are all handforged to boot. And, they aren't outrageously priced. I picked up two of his knives for around $240. He doesn't have a webpage, but his email is m_carter-cutlery@pop06.odn.ne.jp if you want to request a catalog. He also offers up a video of how to sharpen his knives in with the traditional Japanese waterstones that he also sells. Really good instructional video.

[Penn]

We use stones 800 to 20000 grain stones. First thing we do every morning is put the blade to the stone. 20-30 minutes for 3 knives. Elecrtic sharpners are worthless and ruin good ($) knives. Check out www.KORIN.com a store in Tribeca, They ship. Best commerical kitchen knives in the world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bill Harsey]

Penn,
The store you link has an incredible selection of modern Japanese blades.
Interesting to see a traditonal style Japanese blade using VG-10 steel. That's pretty modern stuff. I own several Japanese made blades with VG-10 and they cut very well.

As noted in the links to traditional Japanese Kitchen knives, some makers come from sword making. This is because it was the Japanese swordsmiths that produced all the high carbon steel which was the only source for other edged tools used in woodworking, agriculture and food preparation.
The swordsmiths also had all the technologies to make fine edged tools, especially heat treating.
Japanese kitchen knives have a long history of fine craft.

Traditional Japanese forged blades tend to be as hard as the steel can be made for highest possible sharpness. This makes them prone to chip easy with any error in handling and may explain the extreme care given when used by someone who values their knives.
Using extreme care is not a bad thing.

[mumbleypeg]

I fairly recently started replacing some of my German knives with Japanese knives. The sandwiched construction of the Japanese blades is different from what I am used to. The core is very hard, above 60 rc, the edge angle is more acute than the German knives. The result is that they cut like crazy. I have become as obsessive as a sushi chef with cleaning after every use and the knives stay sharp.

I use a diamond sharpener if I am in a hurry and Japanese stones when I can take the time.

My santoku, it's not a Harsey, perhaps I'll put a word in and try to get on the 2015 list for combat kitchen cutlery.

[cold1]

What is the trick with water stones???
I had always heard of how great they where for putting a fine edge on a knife. I bit the bullet and bought 2 of them. one was a combo stone 400 grit on one side and 800 on the other, the next one was 1200 grit. I would use the rough to get the edge back then I would progress to the finer grits. I followed every different instructional technique that i could find and I still could not get a shaving edge. So I switched back to my Norton stone.

[Penn]

Cold1, If you go to the Korin web address you will find the technique to maintain your blade. It's under Japanese Knives...then knife care.

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

(My knives are Henckels Professional S.)

Mine too.

[Bill Harsey]

Originally Posted by cold1

What is the trick with water stones???
I had always heard of how great they where for putting a fine edge on a knife. I bit the bullet and bought 2 of them. one was a combo stone 400 grit on one side and 800 on the other, the next one was 1200 grit. I would use the rough to get the edge back then I would progress to the finer grits. I followed every different instructional technique that i could find and I still could not get a shaving edge. So I switched back to my Norton stone.

Japanese stones are very well matched for the relatively low alloy high carbon steels used to make the traditional Japanese blades.
The water stones have a friable surface that results in the surface of the stone wearing fast thus keeping fresh sharp grit working against the blade.

Some modern steels do not respond well to Japanese water stones because of difficult to abrade alloying elements like chromium or vanadium.

Yes I have used water stones and I'm going to do like Penn suggests and check out the information at the Korin website.

[Bill Harsey]

Penn,
That's a well written sharpening article at the Korin website. Very good recommendation, thank you.

I was pleased to see it address the flattening of the Japanese water stones too.

Two friends of mine are traditional Japanese sword smiths.
After the complex process of making the steels and forging the blade they do all the foundation shaping by hand with the forged sword blade clamped on a long wood block using hand driven plane-scrapers, coarse files and stones.
Doing a bit of work with these guys is how I learned how to keep the Japanese stones flat.

Helping hand dig black iron sand from alongside a river to make steel is why I now buy all my stuff from Crucible Specialty Tool Steels.

[cold1]

Originally Posted by Bill Harsey

Japanese stones are very well matched for the relatively low alloy high carbon steels used to make the traditional Japanese blades.

What you said made since because all the info I got on them was for wood working tools, chisels, carving knives,etc.. I was using them on my everyday pocket knives, Case, Ag russels. They seemed to do worse on Stainless blades.

This was back in the early 90s and since then the stones have been lost and I did not see a reason to replace them.

Thank you both.

[Penn]

Bill,
I’m glad you like the site and the craftsmanship of their knives. They are a great source, I’m sure if you wanted more info they would be very helpful.

Now let’s focus on the hybrid custom chef knife for me as a way to show your deep appreciation of my sourcing ability.

We tend to use slicers more than traditional chef knives. It’s the cuts that are required. A traditional knife when used has a downward pressure exerted on the object. It’s the nature of the cutting with a chef knife, forward downward pressure, as you slice through the object. Whereas, with a slicer, you move through an object when cutting with either a forward, or backward slicing motion.

My ideal would be a knife that had the best of both elements. A 10” blade length 2 1/2” high, the edge would be one sided in the style of Japanese knives, attached to an ergonomic handle were the hand does not wrap around the handle, but is held the way a golfer holds a putter with his bottom right hand. The handle would be made of plastic, or some material that could be form by casting my grip. The knife would have to light weight, durable, a combination of carbon and stainless steel. Maybe carbon, coated in the thinness layer possible of SS.
How soon for delivery?

[CPTAUSRET]

Does anyone use the Ken Onion kitchen knives? I have narrowed my Christmas gift selection to Shun knives, and I prefer the Ken Onion's. I have not held one yet, so it's pure speculation at this point.

My wifes hands are small, and mine do not open and close very well, thus the ergonomic shape of the Ken Onions appeal to me.

Thanks.

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by CPTAUSRET

Does anyone use the Ken Onion kitchen knives? I have narrowed my Christmas gift selection to Shun knives, and I prefer the Ken Onion's. I have not held one yet, so it's pure speculation at this point.

My wifes hands are small, and mine do not open and close very well, thus the ergonomic shape of the Ken Onions appeal to me.

Thanks.

Ken Onion?
Did he study under Mr. Harsey?

[Razor]

Originally Posted by CPTAUSRET

Does anyone use the Ken Onion kitchen knives? I have narrowed my Christmas gift selection to Shun knives, and I prefer the Ken Onion's. I have not held one yet, so it's pure speculation at this point.

My wifes hands are small, and mine do not open and close very well, thus the ergonomic shape of the Ken Onions appeal to me.

Thanks.

My lovely bride got me the 7" hollow ground santoku several years back, and it is our absolute favorite kitchen knife. The oblong handle is very comfortable, and the blade holds a great edge, requiring only a quick steeling before use to get everything aligned for even very fine cutting (think smooth, thin cuts on tomato skin). Since then, we've bought a 7" serrated utility with the funky (but comfortable) handle, which is a great meat and bread slicer, and a couple of the smaller paring/utility knives. If you sign up for Williams-Sonoma emails, they occasionally run great discount specials on Shuns.