Be Prepared

[Sacamuelas]

Originally Posted by Indian

Looks like you have that pretty well covered, but why the bolt cutters?
bob

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Let's just say it comes in handy when I forget my masterkey.

Makes a lot less noise than the shotgun, too.

TR

Concur.
I ALWAYS have bolt cutters when I hunt or go way out to camp. You never know when you might "misplace" your gate keys during a hunt or ride. There are other uses for that wonderful little device should you happen upon a poacher's lock-on stand or climber as well. Bolt cutters can also be used to unbind an axle/hub that has been bound by wire/debris as well- BTDT.
[/hijack]

[Indian]

OK, it's just what I figured with the bolt cutters. Not too many fences or gates around Alaska though. Here most problems begin with getting stuck and the weather going to hell. There are a lot of people who think a granola bar is being prepared, so we get a few tragic SAR headlines every year. Most of my hunting is fly in, hike in, 4 wheeler or snow machine.

Back to the subject of tools, I have a complete selection of non-power carpentry tools that I can and have used to build everything from buildings to cabinets to furniture. They are in 2 old style open carpenter's wooden tool boxes and my family knows they are to go with us should the SHTF. I built this tool set based on what I learned from an old retired master carpenter when I was a kid. I do have all the modern power tools & toys, but I use the old stuff most.

I've always thought I should plan for no power and limited fuel if things got really bad. After many prolonged power outages here over the years, I've tried to make sure we have what we need at home so we don't have to rely on utilities. It has paid off many times.....

Indian

[Sionnach]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

... lineman's phone....

I never thought about how useful that would be.

Since I'm in metro Atlanta, surrounded by folks that probably aren't prepared, my plan is to bug-out quickly to the national forests or state parks. If it's a short term problem, I get a nice camping weekend. Is fishing gear considered tools?

TR listed some great tools to keep around the house if you wanted to wait it out. Assuming a long-term stay away from your current home due to H51, economic collapse, or zombie invasion, what would you consider must haves?

Assuming I'd want to build a shelter better than a tent: hammer, nails, manual drill with bits, screws, screwdrivers, axe, handsaw, plumb bob, square, level.

Tar paper?
Rope, what sizes and lengths?
Wire, gauges and amount?

I've been looking at some inexpensive trailers from harbor freight to be a camping/bug-out trailer. My truck feels big, but by the time I add load up on food, water, fuel, and clothing, it seems a lot smaller. With the trailer, I could also carry a few things to make my life easier: like my kayak for fishing, scouting, setting trot lines, etc. Because I camp and hike frequently, I will rotate food stuffs, and the trailer will double as my camp trailer. After a few trips, I will have a better idea of what I need/don't need in a serious SHTF situation.

[jatx]

Originally Posted by Sionnach

I've been looking at some inexpensive trailers from harbor freight to be a camping/bug-out trailer. My truck feels big, but by the time I add load up on food, water, fuel, and clothing, it seems a lot smaller. With the trailer, I could also carry a few things to make my life easier.

I have considered a pop-up for similar reasons: more comfortable for a long outing, whatever the reason, and extra carrying capacity.

[The Reaper]

I would not bet my life on anything made by Harbor Freight.

You may be able to get a good deal on a used enclosed trailer by watching the classifieds.

If you are going to be building a shelter, you first will need a place to live while you work, then you will need a lot of lumber, or the tools to make it, like saws, a portable mill, axes, adzes, drills, braces and bits, a come-along, a Hi-Lift Jack, a welding vehicle alternator with cables, a handcart or heavy duty wheelbarrow, etc. Only after that will you need to tools to assemble it. Tar paper or roofing felt would be good to have, as would plastic sheeting, tarps, some sheets of galvanized metal roofing, a roll of sheet metal, a few rolls of insulation, a caulking gun and plenty of caulk and liquid nails, a window or two, several bags of cement and sand, pieces of rebar, some fencing or chicken wire, some five gallon buckets, a washtub, some cast iron cookware, a Yukon or pot-bellied wood stove, hinges, a lockset, plenty of spikes, nails, screws, cordage, wire, chain, strapping, JB Weld, 100 mph tape, epoxy, etc., a deep cycle battery or two, and a bicycle. If room allowed, a set of blacksmithing tools (hammers, tongs, etc.), an anvil, and some stock metal could come in handy.

If you are anticipate being there a year or more, some seeds and gardening/farming tools would be a great idea.

TR

[Sionnach]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I would not bet my life on anything made by Harbor Freight.

If you are anticipate being there a year or more, some seeds and gardening/farming tools would be a great idea.

I have zero experience with HF products. Since I grew up on a farm, and my dad was a mechanic, I'm mechanically inclined and experienced in "Southern Engineering." I intended to check out the trailer quality, then during my camping excursions, see how it holds up under load. However, I'll defer to your experience and either construct my own trailer, or find one.

The seeds are a great idea. They're inexpensive and take a minimum amount of space. The National Center for Genetic Resources Preservation claims that properly stored seeds can remain viable for 100 years at -18C. If your bugout plan includes seeds, make sure you grow a little garden to get the hang of it. Considering most of our food is NOT produced locally, and grocery stores truck most food in, a fuel shortage can quickly lead to a food shortage.

Our refineries are very vulnerable, and much of our oil is supplied by not-so-friendly countries. As Chinese fuel demand increases, and radicalism and socialism continue to rear their ugly heads in several key oil-producing areas, I consider a major fuel shortage to be just as realistic a possibility as the pandemic flu. Those of you who lived during the OPEC embargo already know impact of short term fuel shortages.

[The Reaper]

If you get seeds, and you plan to grow more than one crop, do not get the hybrid variety seeds. They will be sterile after the first crop.

TR

[Surf n Turf]

For anyone interested ---
I missed the initial group buy from Mountain House that TR participated in, so I contacted Boadsword directly, and received the following information.

Broadsword,
Are you planning on another group buy from Mountain House. Any information would be appreciated


From: <broadsword2269@yahoo.com>

Yes, We have one coming up in just a couple weeks. We're doing a group buy on MRE entree's right now if you want to get in on that. -
Don

SnT

[Shar]

I'll first say that I'm LDS (Mormon) and for us, self-reliance and food storage is something of a commandment. Obviously not all Mormons live up to all of their rules (real or perceived) just like any other religious body, so I'm guessing that if you polled 10 Mormons on the street 4 of them might be able to talk with any credibility on the subject. I'm not bagging on my fellowmen here, I'm just adding this caveat so that when I tell you that for some of my suggestions you'll need to find yourself a Mormon, you are careful in your selection of those you seek out for any assistance with LDS resources.

With that said...

The LDS church has a LOT of resources available to it and its membership regarding food storage. Probably the single best resource, in my opinion, is the "cannery" (that's what we call it) but it is more formally known as the Home Storage Center. There are literally hundreds of them located all over the world. You can find the one closest to you here: http://www.providentliving.org/conte...4066-1,00.html
Before I go into what is found at the cannery, here's the catch: in order to avail yourself of the cannery you must go with a member of the church. Because this isn't a "for-profit" organization and taxes aren't paid it or the workers (it's all volunteer) it cannot be opened to the public. So, if you know a member of the church, ask them about the cannery and when their "ward" time is to go. Each ward generally has a pre-appointed time to go to the cannery every month or so. You can tag along. If you don't know anyone in the area who is Mormon and you are a little more daring, you can look up the local church and call and ask for the ward food storage specialist. Every ward has one. Ask for their name and number. Call that person and tell them you'd like to go and volunteer to help on their next canning day and they'll be happy to have you. Generally you have to put your bulk order in a few months in advance, but you can order off the shelf products or bring your own products to can (I'll explain that in a minute). You'll have at least 20-30 people there helping you on a Saturday morning and together everyone cans tons (literally) of food for each other and you are done in a few hours. It's fun actually. Very little religious overtones - just an opening prayer. The rest is getting down to business. I can't promise you that no one will try and invite you to church, but if you are clear that your purpose there is to be a friend and a compatriot in self-reliance and that's it and you are helpful and pleasant - they'll get the hint and move on. That won't stop them from being really nice to you though. The ward food storage (or self-reliance) specialist is the key to your entrance. I called my ward's self-reliance specialist here and asked her if a non-Mormon wanted to come with us and can if that was cool and she said yes, it happens regularly. She said they just get their order to her, get their map to the cannery and they're good to go. I go and can regularly and I've never noticed anyone getting the missionary special (and I rarely recognize more than a handful of people anyway), I've been too busy canning to care. If someone is in the Tucson or Phoenix areas and is interested, PM me and I can hook you up with people.

As far as what you can get/can at the dry-pack canneries:
flour
rice (long-grain - we bring our own short grain rice since my husband is very picky about his rice)
spaghetti
sugar
dried apple slices
red wheat
white wheat
quick oats
rolled oats
powdered milk (great to use all the time for cooking)
potato buds (a staple in our house - they're YUMMY)
chocolate pudding
vanilla pudding (the puddings are good for cooking cakes and whatnot)
dried carrots
black beans
navy beans
dried onions
refried beans
(I'm doing this from memory, but I think that's it for your normal dry-pack canneries). This is all generally canned in 10# cans. I know some do mylar bags, but those break open or puncture easily so if you move at all, I wouldn't suggest it.

Some of the canneries (like the one in Phoenix) also do wet-packing. They do meats, jams/jellies, peanut butter, etc. I've never been to a wet-pack cannery, but if you've got one in your area that's great. I don't have a price list with me, but I'll grab one on Sunday. I do know the bulk prices beat the commissary and Sam's Club/Costco on normal days. That isn't to say you can't beat the cannery - but when you add the type of cans (10#), you've got a good thing going and it generally blows it away. The closest cannery in North Carolina is in Greensboro.

However, I do the majority of my day-to-day (what's in my pantry) food storage shopping at the commissary and Costco. Case lot sales are my best friend. I'm a huge proponent of store what you eat. We probably have about a four month supply between our pantry, closets and deep freeze. I've got three young kids who just aren't going to eat wheat happily. I'm not going to cook wheat happily. I have some wheat for real true nasty awful emergencies, but I don't bake my bread. I buy 4-5 loaves at a time and freeze them. I'll post an article below this post that I live by that explains the biggest mistakes in food storage. Being an active duty family I just don't think it is reasonable to think we can store more than 4 months of food without killing our weight allowance and ourselves on any given move - not to mention the fact that we regularly have issues with storage (and that has nothing to do with my obsession with dishes) .

There are a couple of web sites that I like for bulk items that do have good prices - at least to compare prices with the canneries, etc are:
www.honeyvillegrain.com
www.beprepared.com (have great first aid kits, 72 hour kits and will do group orders and save you on shipping)
www.waltonfeed.com

Couple of other things:

Meds: I've tried to read the whole thread and I may have missed this - if it's been said already, it merits being said again. You need to keep an extra month of medicine on-hand. My son has an endocrine issue that requires daily injections of a drug that gets mail ordered to us in a refrigerated container on a monthly basis. I've been slowly hoarding it over the past few years (they won't hand me an extra supply happily) and now I'm about a month ahead of where they think we are... During Hurricane Katrina there were HUGE problems getting the meds to patients in the affected areas and so other parents on my support group board were driving their extra medicine all over the country - it was awful. Anyway, I'm paranoid now.

Finances: Food storage is a really really good idea during lean times too. We've lived out of our food storage in the past when we just haven't had a good cash flow. It isn't just for catastrophic times. I regularly see the commissary promote buying a little extra to keep in the pantry and I think this is beyond wise and we should educate some of the younger/newers out there that they ought to be a month ahead with what is in the cupboard. The finance office doesn't always come through when they need to and it's good to have some extra mac and cheese hanging around. I also LOVE going through a month where I cook out of my food storage and my freezer and only to the commissary for fruit/veggies. A couple of months ago my total grocery bill for the month was $50. I obviously can't do that every month because I have to stock back up again, and this past month I had a much bigger bill - but it's great when you need to use the money for something else and you need to rotate your food.

MRE's: This is more a question... I saw mention of a bulk order you all did awhile ago. Was this cheaper than the MRE's that you can buy in the commissary? We like having MRE's around as 72 hour kit and camping food and I keep a few in the cars, but DANG they're pricey. My husband flat refuses to bring any home from work. I'm not going to push his ethics on this one, but... can't I find them cheaper somewhere besides the commissary?

Beef: I've had a few family members who have done this - we've never been anywhere quite long enough to do it but I really want to... I think going in with a few friends a splitting a cow is a great idea. I'm not sure the particulars or how you go about finding said cow, but I know they get a ton of beef out of a 1/4 cow and it lasts over a year for a family of five with lots of good beef and ends up being economical (or so I've heard). Clearly if electricity were cut, the freezer would be trouble but I guess the BBQ would have to be fired up right quick. I do know people who can beef in their homes but that is way out of my league.

Hopefully this wasn't too rambling. If I haven't been clear, please let me know. If anyone wants prices, let me know and I'll either post them or PM them to you. I've also got spreadsheets for inventory and food storage plans for building a 3 month supply one week at a time over the course of a year. The last thing you need to do is go into debt to get prepared - that would really defeat things.

I'll post the article below in it's entirety. I think it is worth the read.

[Shar]

7 Mistakes of food storage

By Vicki Tate

If you are going to store food, make sure that the food you store is adequate for the need you and your family anticipate. This may not be as easy as to achieve as many people think, because the facts are that most people make serious errors when storing food—errors that will come back to haunt them when the food they’ve stored is the only thing that stands between them and their empty, dissatisfied, bellies.

There are seven common mistakes people make when storing food. They are:

1. Variety
Most people don’t have enough variety in their storage. 95% of the people I’ve worked with have only stored four basic items: wheat, milk, honey, and salt. Statistics show most of us won’t survive on such a diet for several reasons. a) Many people are allergic to wheat and may not be aware of it until they are eating it meal after meal. b) Wheat is too harsh for young children. They can tolerate it in small amounts but not as their main staple. c) We get tired of eating the same foods over and over and many times prefer to not eat, then to sample that particular food again. This is called appetite fatigue. Young children and older people are particularly susceptible to it. Store less wheat than is generally suggested and put the difference into a variety of other grains, particularly ones your family likes to eat. Also store a variety of beans, as this will add color, texture, and flavor. Variety is the key to a successful storage program. It is essential that you store flavorings such as tomato, bouillon, cheese, and onion.

Also, include a good supply of the spices you like to cook with. These flavorings and spices allow you to do many creative things with your grains and beans. Without them you are severely limited. One of the best suggestions I can give you is buy a good food storage cookbook, go through it, and see what your family would really eat. Notice the ingredients as you do it. This will help you more than anything else to know what items to store.

2. Extended staples
Never put all your eggs in one basket. Store dehydrated and/or freeze dried foods as well as home canned and “store bought” canned goods. Make sure you add cooking oil, shortening, baking powder, soda, yeast, and powdered eggs. You can’t cook even the most basic recipes without these items.


3. Vitamins
Vitamins are important, especially if you have children, since children do not store body reserves of nutrients as adults do. A good quality multi-vitamin and vitamin C are the most vital. Others might be added as your budget permits.

4. Quick and easy and “psychological foods”
Quick and easy foods help you through times when you are psychologically or physically unable to prepare your basic storage items. “No cook” foods such as freeze-dried are wonderful since they require little preparation, MREs (Meal Ready to Eat), such as many preparedness outlets carry, canned goods, etc. are also very good. “Psychological foods” are the goodies—Jello, pudding, candy, etc.—you should add to your storage. These may sound frivolous, but through the years I've talked with many people who have lived entirely on their storage for extended periods of time. Nearly all of them say these were the most helpful items in their storage to “normalize” their situations and make it more bearable. These are especially important if you have children.

5. Balance
Time and time again I’ve seen families buy all of their wheat, then buy all of another item and so on. Don’t do that. It’s important to keep well-balanced as you build your storage. Buy several items, rather than a large quantity of one item. If something happens and you have to live on your present storage, you’ll fare much better having a one month supply of a variety of items than a year’s supply of two or three items.

6. Containers
Always store your bulk foods in food storage containers. I have seen literally tons and tons of food thrown away because they were left in sacks, where they became highly susceptible to moisture, insects, and rodents. If you are using plastic buckets make sure they are lined with a food grade plastic liner available from companies that carry packaging supplies. Never use trash can liners as these are treated with pesticides. Don’t stack them too high. In an earthquake they may topple, the lids pop open, or they may crack. A better container is the #10 tin can which most preparedness companies use when they package their foods.

7. Use your storage
In all the years I’ve worked with preparedness one of the biggest problems I’ve seen is people storing food and not knowing what to do with it. It’s vital that you and your family become familiar with the things you are storing. You need to know how to prepare these foods. This is not something you want to have to learn under stress. Your family needs to be used to eating these foods. A stressful period is not a good time to totally change your diet. Get a good food storage cookbook and learn to use these foods! It’s better to find out the mistakes you’ll make now while there’s still time to make corrections.

It’s easy to take basic food storage and add the essentials that make it tasty, and it needs to be done. As I did the research for my cookbook, Cooking with Home Storage, I wanted to include recipes that gave help to families no matter what they had stored. As I put the material together it was fascinating to discover what the pioneers ate compared to the types of things we store. If you have stored only the basics, there’s very little you can do with it. By adding even just a few things, it greatly increases your options, and the prospect of your family surviving on it. As I studied how the pioneers lived and ate, my whole feeling for food storage changed. I realized our storage is what most of the world has always lived on. If it’s put together the right way we are returning to good basic food with a few goodies thrown in.


Vicki Tate is the author of the popular book, Cooking With Home Storage

[Pete]

Shar;

You have 8 posts so far and all have been great. Keep up the good work, I'll have to keep my eyes open for the next Shar-gram.


Pete

[The Reaper]

Shar:

Good info.

When you get here and get hooked up with a local church, maybe we can get together and tag along with you on a trip to Greensboro.

Since you mentioned you have a dish fetish, I feel it is only fair to warn you that one of the largest dish replacement companies in the US, Replacements Limited, is located in Greensboro. http://www.replacements.com/index.htm

MREs are expensive to make and are best stored in cool temperatures. The menu changes for good reason, since eating them for very long is quickly monotonous. The cheapest way to get them is to ask around military people who deploy a lot. Like SF. If your hubby won't hook you up, someone in his unit might have some extras. I have to tell you that you can save money on the MREs by just buying the entrees and skipping all of the packaging, accessories, heaters, toilet paper, etc. The companies that package the entrees also sell them separately.

PCS time is a great chance to get ahead on meds.

The details of the Mountain House buy (from Oregon Freeze Dry, who packs MH food) are further back in this thread, they were with Broadsword at WarRifles.com and they appear to do them regularly. IIRC, someone said that they were doing an MRE entree buy as well. They have some rules, but I found it realtively easy to order and they were delivered to my door. The discount, for #10 cans was somewhere around 50% and the shipping (for orders over $500) was free. The people putting the deal together semed pretty trustworthy and easy to deal with.

HTH.

TR

[Shar]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Since you mentioned you have a dish fetish, I feel it is only fair to warn you that one of the largest dish replacement companies in the US, Replacements Limited, is located in Greensboro. http://www.replacements.com/index.htm

Oh, I LOVE that company though I've never bought, only registered. And really, you should be warning my husband... He doesn't share the love. I will however forget to mention the tidbit of information so that he can focus all of his energy on getting us to NC.

I'd be happy to help coordinate the cannery if/when we get there so long as I get to waive at Replacements Limited on the trip.

[Monsoon65]

Shar:

Thanks for all the info. I have the waltonfeed website on my favorites list. I think I'll be getting some of their Gamma Seal lids. That's something that has a ton of uses for storing stuff.

[Monsoon65]

I noticed at waltonfeed.com that they have package deals for a year or two months supply of food. (They have three different "one year" packages).

http://waltonfeed.com/intro/packages.html

Would something like this be a good starting point for someone starting their food storage system?