Special Forces beret flashes

[LitleBird]

Hello.

I would like to ask a question regarding the colors and markings of the flashes that represent each of the active/NG Special Forces Groups.
More importantly, do they represent something ? What is the history behind each of the Groups distinctive unit insignia ?

Unfortunatly all my resarch came up empty. Perhaps there is a book that could shed more light on the subject?

Thank You.

[Koa18B]

Just go to the Army Institute of Heraldry. You can find all the info there.

[Utah Bob]

alas, the IOH lists no history on group flashes, just the SSI. The only history I know is the black border added to the 1st grp flash after JFK was killed.

[Ambush Master]

Originally Posted by Utah Bob

alas, the IOH lists no history on group flashes, just the SSI. The only history I know is the black border added to the 1st grp flash after JFK was killed.

And the 5th Group was a Black Background with the Colors of the RVN Flag. The Yellow and red were later dropped after the return of the Colors from RVN and the US withdrawal.

The 3rd Herd Colors were a composite of the Group Colors that it was formed from.

[mojaveman]

The Vietnamese colors were removed from the 5th SFG flash in January of '85. I can remember standing in formation one cold morning when LTC Jacobelly told everyone that they had to change their flashes back to the original all black pre Viet Nam style.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by Ambush Master

And the 5th Group was a Black Background with the Colors of the RVN Flag. The Yellow and red were later dropped after the return of the Colors from RVN and the US withdrawal.

The 3rd Herd Colors were a composite of the Group Colors that it was formed from.

We didn't change it until 84..... I'm pretty sure we were out of VN by then...... I was one that "converted" from a VN flash to an all black one. TS

[Beef]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

We didn't change it until 84..... I'm pretty sure we were out of VN by then...... I was one that "converted" from a VN flash to an all black one. TS

Yes, TS. Viet Nam April 1975, Cambodia May 15, 1975. Except maybe for JCRC and some 46th SFCA folks.

[Richard]

OK - here's a mini (less than all inclusive) primer.

Traditionally, the basic colors found in the flashes/SSI/DUI represent the following in our culture:

Blue - sky, freedom, intelligence
Green - life, balance, harmony, stability, nature, forest, plains and forests of Europe
Red - blood, warfare, sacrifice, power, valor
Yellow (Gold) - hope, positive, traditional, Asia
Black - night, mystery, covert
Grey - shadowy, in-between black and white, nebulous
White - purity, overt, openness

Additionally, in the military:

Teal Blue and Gold - colors of unassigned units (e.g., pre-Branch SF)
Purple - joint service command

Additinally, the black and gold Airborne tab was retained for its historical connection to the Airborne Command SSI originally worn by SF - there was a teal blue/gold Airborne tab for a short period but it was never fully embraced or authorized.

Now, for the following (just to mention a few flashes):

5th SFG RVN - originally all black, then the black w/white border 5th SFG + diagonal stripes denoting addition of personnel from 1st SFG (yellow) and 7th SFG (red) as well as an image of RVN national colors, then back to black w/white border.

SF Det Europe - traditional forest green (Europe) of 10th SFG + diagonal stripes of FRG national flag (black, red, gold).

46th SF Co/USASFT - black (covert nature of unit) w/gold border (1st SFG unit) + diagonal stripes of Thai national flag (red, white, blue, white, red).

1st SFG - yellow (Asia) + black border added to commemorate death of JFK.

SF not assigned to SF unit - jungle green (SF branch) with grey border and diagonal stripes indicating nature of assignment (white = overt, black = covert, purple = joint).

OK - now you can ponder the rest for yourself.

Richard's $.02

[LitleBird]

Thank You for Your time gentle men

[Green Light]

7th SFG - Red, recalling the patch of the FSSF.

One thing that isn't clear, tho . . . there used to be two main wing backing designs for the SF groups. One was the 10th Gp green and red. The other used the 77th SFG colors of teal blue and gold. This was passed on to the other groups as 7th Gp was used as cadre for some of the new ones. Now the wing background (for the most part) matches the flash. Any idea when/why they changed?

[Bennett]

Originally Posted by Koa18B

Just go to the Army Institute of Heraldry. You can find all the info there.

The Army Institute of Heraldry isn't a good choice. The information there is flawed at best, just try looking up 10th SFG, according to them we didn't get our colors until the 80s? I have a document at home that I'll scan and send, it tells the history or folk lore of how each group got there flash color.

[Utah Bob]

Originally Posted by Bennett

The Army Institute of Heraldry isn't a good choice. The information there is flawed at best, just try looking up 10th SFG, according to them we didn't get our colors until the 80s? I have a document at home that I'll scan and send, it tells the history or folk lore of how each group got there flash color.

Yeah, I don't know what's with the dates they have. I know we switched to the green/red background in late 68 or 69. Maybe they weren't "officially" adopted till later?
I'd like to see that document you have.

[Richard]

After 1984 SF stndardized the colors so that 1/10 had to go to the 10th Grou color and 5th had to get the VN colors out.

Actually - COL Guest wanted the RVN era colors out of the 5th SFGA flash.

RE: 5th SFG flashes:

• The original 5th SFG flash was all black in 1961.
  
• The 2nd pattern black w/white border (added in 1962) flash was worn but not officially authorized until 1964.
  
• First pattern USASFV (Prov) flash (never authorized) prior to 5th SFG deployment was all yellow with three diagonal red stripes.
  
• The 3rd pattern 5th SFG flash was the black w/white border and diagonal yellow-red-yellow-red-yellow-red-yellow stripes denoting (a) colors of original USASFV flash, (b) colors of early TDY teams from 1st and 7th SFGs and (c) RVN flag.

On 7 Dec 84 COL James Guest, 5th SFG CDR, submitted a request to the Director, Institute of Heraldry, requesting that the official flash of the 5th SFG be changed back to the solid black with white border because:

• The colors of a foreign flag should not be incorporated in a US Army beret flash
• The RVN and the original purpose for having the RVN colors in the flash no longer existed
• The 5th SFG was no longer oriented towards SEA
• The mission and organization of the 5th SFGA had been significantly transformed to meet modern requirements and the change of beret flash would depict that metamorphosis

The request was approved by the Institute of Heraldry on 16 Jan 85 and the official change took place in a ceremony on 6 May 1985.

* Sutherland, Ian. Special Forces of the US Army; 1990.

Richard's $.02

[Last hard class]

Originally Posted by Richard

Actually - COL Guest wanted the RVN era colors out of the 5th SFGA flash.

On 7 Dec 84 COL James Guest, 5th SFG CDR, submitted a request to the Director, Institute of Heraldry, requesting that the official flash of the 5th SFG be changed back to the solid black with white border because:

• The colors of a foreign flag should not be incorporated in a US Army beret flash
• The RVN and the original purpose for having the RVN colors in the flash no longer existed
• The 5th SFG was no longer oriented towards SEA
• The mission and organization of the 5th SFGA had been significantly transformed to meet modern requirements and the change of beret flash would depict that metamorphosis

The request was approved by the Institute of Heraldry on 16 Jan 85.

It is interesting that you would have this information available. A barracks rat that was the COL'S driver/bitchboy had presciently blabbed such nefarious behavior would occur. Claimed to have been within earshot during certain conversations. Group HQ opsec for you.

Poster on the wall:

Top: Think OPSEC

Bottom: Who talked?

Hand written below: Who didn't?


Caused a lot of rumors with negative chatter about our fearless leader. As an enlisted man, I was just happy to know someone up top was keeping their eyes on the important things.

[Combat Diver]

Originally Posted by Richard

Actually - COL Guest wanted the RVN era colors out of the 5th SFGA flash.

RE: 5th SFG flashes:

• The original 5th SFG flash was all black in 1961.
  
• The 2nd pattern black w/white border (added in 1962) flash was worn but not officially authorized until 1964.
  
• First pattern USASFV (Prov) flash (never authorized) prior to 5th SFG deployment was all yellow with three diagonal red stripes.
  
• The 3rd pattern 5th SFG flash was the black w/white border and diagonal yellow-red-yellow-red-yellow-red-yellow stripes denoting (a) colors of original USASFV flash, (b) colors of early TDY teams from 1st and 7th SFGs and (c) RVN flag.

On 7 Dec 84 COL James Guest, 5th SFG CDR, submitted a request to the Director, Institute of Heraldry, requesting that the official flash of the 5th SFG be changed back to the solid black with white border because:

• The colors of a foreign flag should not be incorporated in a US Army beret flash
• The RVN and the original purpose for having the RVN colors in the flash no longer existed
• The 5th SFG was no longer oriented towards SEA
• The mission and organization of the 5th SFGA had been significantly transformed to meet modern requirements and the change of beret flash would depict that metamorphosis

The request was approved by the Institute of Heraldry on 16 Jan 85.

* Sutherland, Ian. Special Forces of the US Army; 1990.

Richard's $.02

5th Group didn't official change until later that spring of 85' (Apr or May). I had been assigned to C/1/5 in Dec 84 with the old RVN flash and was one of 20 folks from 1/5 to stand in the formal flash changing ceremony later that spring. Ceremony was conducted in front of the "Bronze Bruce Statue". We wore the old flash, than was given the command to "Uncover", heritage read then commanded to "Recover" Later in June I went to CDQC with the new flash.